British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

by 123456789 Thu 23 Mar 2017, 6:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

Fairly simple, champions cup aside, we have nearly all the information Garland will have to pick the Lions squad, so go ahead name your squad, your captain etc.

by SecretFly Wed 19 Apr 2017, 9:10 pm

Too many numbers for my liking. I'm an artiste! We hate numbers.

by Guest Wed 19 Apr 2017, 9:16 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Couple of points from Warren Gatland interview on radio New Zealand this morning:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.

Farrell is selected as a first five eighth, not a second five.

Teo is picked as a second five eight not a centre.

keen to coach Jared Payne again.

Second five eight is centre isn't it?!

In our language the centre wears the number 13 jersey and its his role to set up the wings.

Oh, OK. 12 and 13 are both centres here (inside and outside), that's where my confusion lay.

Probably another of those instances where we are guilty of overthinking it and applying too much detail to each role.

No, I think the roles sound the same. Just different naming conventions.

by aucklandlaurie Wed 19 Apr 2017, 9:16 pm

This Rugby is a very scientific business, only place for atrists is in the commentary and comms teams.

by aucklandlaurie Wed 19 Apr 2017, 9:23 pm

Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Couple of points from Warren Gatland interview on radio New Zealand this morning:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.

Farrell is selected as a first five eighth, not a second five.

Teo is picked as a second five eight not a centre.

keen to coach Jared Payne again.

Second five eight is centre isn't it?!

In our language the centre wears the number 13 jersey and its his role to set up the wings.

Oh, OK. 12 and 13 are both centres here (inside and outside), that's where my confusion lay.

Probably another of those instances where we are guilty of overthinking it and applying too much detail to each role.

No, I think the roles sound the same. Just different naming conventions.

You are probably right to keep things simple Griff, because its at this stage of proceedings that us kiwis start the mind games, we cant help ourselves, and will do so for the next 2 months. so dont be surprised that when you see Ben Teo run out in a Lions jersey it will have a 1 and a 3 on the back. just because Gatty is a Kiwi counts for nothing, we trust him as far as you can kick a bag of cement.

by carpet baboon Wed 19 Apr 2017, 9:53 pm

Griff wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Right then, i have spent the day considering the squad over several large gins, and here is my completely pointless views on it.

Props: all in all nothing to complain about. Nel is injured and you could make an argument for Ryan but not a bad selection .

Hookers. One was going to miss out but i thought it would be George not going, but again can't really complain

The row: well as an ireland and Ulster fan i think i Henderson is mighty lucky to be picked. At points this season's he has looked quite disinterested, and both the Gray's and launchbery have fair reason to feel hard done by. Kruis if he gets back up to speed will be fine, and i hope awj can stay fit. I fear he may be the first injury

Back row: right I'm going to say it. Personally i think Moriarty and sob shouldn't be going, and Watson and Haskell should be, we have enough ball carriers who can play 6 and 8 without Moriarty and don't think we need a smash it up 7 in sob. Haskell you can set to tackle monster mode and that's what he will do till he can't walk and Watson is more of a nasty on the floor 7.

No9s. Best 9s we have.

Flyhalf: i think Russell should have been selected as he offers something the others don't. Who to drop? Well if I'm totally honest i would drop bigger and Sexton and take Russell and Jackson.
That way you have controlled Farrell maverick Russell and a bit of both in jackson

Centre's: well he's picked them for a certain game plan. Not sure about teo and worries about jd2s complete inability to pass, but with Farrell Henshaw jj and Payne i think we can do some damage

Back 3. Again quite happy. 1/2p not sure he is showing enough and would start Hogg Williams Payne i front of him at 15 and add in that noewel and Watson can also play 15 maybe another out and out winger could have been taken.

Any way there my thoughts. Feel free to abuse them.

Time for more gin

A very good post, Carpet Baboon. I think I agree with every point pretty much. As a Welsh fan I wouldn't have taken Biggar either; there's no need for 1/2p really; Moriaty was not even on my radar for this tournament so I stand my my original thoughts that he should not tour; I too might have taken Jackson (some of the best 10 stats in the 6N) or Russell, but disagree about sexton - would have chosen him from the off.

To be honest the leaving Sexton behind was a little bit selfish of me as an ireland fan. I think he is the best ten in the NH. And he is a stubborn hard as nails I am a twonk of the highest order. So i have a horrid feeling he's gonna be targeted and broken on this tour. So for ireland Jackson going instead of him to learn from the other two,while Sexton relaxes and teaches young carbs on the Ireland tour suits me.
But Sexton will be the starting 10 for the tests if he is fit.
I could also see an all Ireland 9 10 12 13 for the first test

by Guest Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:09 pm

I think I'd prefer to see JJ at 13 rather than Payne (if that's who you meant from Ireland at 13, Carpet Baboon?). But as I've also said a number of times I'd prefer to see how players go in the warm up games first. If Payne shows up well and JJ bombs then yes why not!

It's such a tight turnaround that, for once, I think that existing combos and partnerships might be the way to go. So Ireland half backs and centres might be able to hit the ground running rather than trying to forge new combos. There simply isn't the time for the latter.

by Cyril Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:14 pm

Surprised that Payne is picked. Seems solid and pretty good in most areas, but not Lions quality.

Is Gats giving some of his mates a free holiday to see their families?

by carpet baboon Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:14 pm

Griff wrote:I think I'd prefer to see JJ at 13 rather than Payne (if that's who you meant from Ireland at 13, Carpet Baboon?). But as I've also said a number of times I'd prefer to see how players go in the warm up games first. If Payne shows up well and JJ bombs then yes why not!

It's such a tight turnaround that, for once, I think that existing combos and partnerships might be the way to go. So Ireland half backs and centres might be able to hit the ground running rather than trying to forge new combos. There simply isn't the time for the latter.

Griff i want jj at 13 but I'm trying to think like gatland. For me a backline of
Murray Sexton Williams Henshaw JJ Seymour Hogg/Payne would be my back line

by wayne Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:14 pm

Nah, Irish Half backs, English centres, Welsh wings and Scottish full back. Murray, Sexton, Farrell, Joseph, Williams, North and Hogg

by aucklandlaurie Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:48 pm

Cyril wrote:Surprised that Payne is picked. Seems solid and pretty good in most areas, but not Lions quality.

Is Gats giving some of his mates a free holiday to see their families?

And here was me thinking how appropriate it would be to see Payne lead the Lions out for the first game at Whangarei, the locals would love it.

by SecretFly Wed 19 Apr 2017, 11:02 pm

Cyril wrote:Surprised that Payne is picked. Seems solid and pretty good in most areas, but not Lions quality.

Is Gats giving some of his mates a free holiday to see their families?

As in not fit to be in an archaic ceremonial Invitation side that loses more Tests than it wins? Yep, Payne didn't need the Lions trip, he already has an AB scalp on his wall.

by **RiscaGame** Wed 19 Apr 2017, 11:31 pm

Guess Hersh does care about the Lions enough still?

by Taylorman Thu 20 Apr 2017, 12:28 am

SecretFly wrote:
Cyril wrote:Surprised that Payne is picked. Seems solid and pretty good in most areas, but not Lions quality.

Is Gats giving some of his mates a free holiday to see their families?

As in not fit to be in an archaic ceremonial Invitation side that loses more Tests than it wins? Yep, Payne didn't need the Lions trip, he already has an AB scalp on his wall.

Ha ha, well said

by Sgt_Pooly Thu 20 Apr 2017, 6:02 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Griff wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Couple of points from Warren Gatland interview on radio New Zealand this morning:

This team has four or five of the best goal kickers in the World.

Farrell is selected as a first five eighth, not a second five.

Teo is picked as a second five eight not a centre.

keen to coach Jared Payne again.

Second five eight is centre isn't it?!

In our language the centre wears the number 13 jersey and its his role to set up the wings.

In our case(JD) it's to defend. We're not too bothered about passing/setting up wings.

by Sgt_Pooly Thu 20 Apr 2017, 6:04 am

Nowell over Maitland. Scotland have got none of the 50/50 calls. It is so infuriating.

I feel I'm in a reasonable position to say this, having watched both players for a number of years.

Nowell over Maitland is not a 50/50 call, it's nowhere near. Nowell is streets ahead of Maitland, perhaps Seymour over Maitland is a little more realistic, possibly not.

by EST Thu 20 Apr 2017, 7:45 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
Nowell over Maitland. Scotland have got none of the 50/50 calls. It is so infuriating.

I feel I'm in a reasonable position to say this, having watched both players for a number of years.

Nowell over Maitland is not a 50/50 call, it's nowhere near. Nowell is streets ahead of Maitland, perhaps Seymour over Maitland is a little more realistic, possibly not.

Fair enough Pooly, i'm sure others share your opinions - Gats obviously does.

To my mind, there is not much between them. Maitland often looks languid, my main criticism is that he doesn't back his pace sometimes. However, he is a very clever rugby player who makes excellent decisions, is good in the air and is a terrific defender because he reads the game well. Nowell is one of those guys who always seems to ride the first tackle, and make meters through traffic - I like how he plays, and don't begrudge him his place.

by exile jack Thu 20 Apr 2017, 8:05 am

In for a penny,in for a pound.I think the chances of the Gatsomaniac Lions coming back from NZ with a respectable playing record depend on whether the strengths of Borthwick and Farrell outweigh the failings of Useless Bob and The Waterboy.Here's hoping.

Looks like Scotland's capitulation at Twickenham,England's failure in Dublin and Saracens dismantling of Harlequins,Glasgow and Bath have done for Ford,Russell,and several English and Scots boys.

Launchbury's omission is shocking to the point of being brainless.Absolutely delighted for O'Mahony,a real warrior.Amazed that JD2 was selected as Duncan Taylor and Barritt are much,much better players,Surprised no place found for Wade,Jackson and Rob Evans.Hope they are on standby together with Wood,Ryan,Gray J,Hibbard,Wood,Heaslip,Robshaw,Zebo,Care,Carberry and Ringrose.Hope Biggar and Webb do not invoke the wrath of the NZ public and media with more Wendyball behaviour.Expect Nippy the Weegie to demand IndyRef3 on so few Scots being selected.

Bring it on!

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 8:27 am

Id say all those players are on standby. think I heard that a hundred players have signed contracts to stay ready etc.

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 8:32 am

Cyril wrote:Surprised that Payne is picked. Seems solid and pretty good in most areas, but not Lions quality.

Is Gats giving some of his mates a free holiday to see their families?

Who would you have picked in his place? I think Ben T'eo is the real surprise inclusion in the centre. Has only played a couple of six nations games as a sub and looked fairly ordinary. Payne is a much better player and covers full back. Id take Payne any day of the week over T'eo.

by alive555 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 8:34 am

With over a quarter of the team coming from a team ranked 8th in the world and chosen entirely through nepotism, vs by far the best team possibly in history, you know exactly whats coming your way

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 8:54 am

I dont mind Wales getting a good quota of players. They do have very good players, it was a very competitive 6 nations tournament and a Welsh coach is always going to pick some players he trusts I think there should be some leeway for that. However, I do think that at least a couple more Scots should have been picked over Welsh players or possibly the likes of Ben T'eo.

I think Farrell should have been picked as a centre over T'eo and Russell as an OH. I think that Jonny Gray could have been picked over one of the locks but then again Launchbury was a stand out player in the 6 nations. I think there was a good case for Laidlaw over Youngs too.

Controversial but you could also justify Watson over Warburton.

by Scottrf Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:01 am

Honestly though, would you trust Russell walking out to a test match vs NZ? I certainly wouldn't, as talented as I think he is.

Agree about Teo, would probably have picked Ringrose. However could be a good impact sub. Maybe learning from EJ.

Launchbury over Henderson (2xMOTM and 3 other good games vs 2 appearances?) or AWJ. Maybe even Launch/Gray over both.

Watson/Tips is more the call I think and could go either way. But then Haskell also missed out.

by EST Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:07 am

I thought Shanks was a decent bloke:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39648292

The 5Live Lions special last night, when Mark Chapman asked Rowntree who was sticking up for the Scots, he literally laughed.

by **RDW** Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:07 am

Guscott says Te'o will probably start the tests at 12 since he knows SBW well - but then again he did get his loosehead and tighthead props mixed up...

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:09 am

Scottrf wrote:Honestly though, would you trust Russell walking out to a test match vs NZ? I certainly wouldn't, as talented as I think he is.

Agree about Teo, would probably have picked Ringrose.

Launchbury over Henderson (2xMOTM and 3 other good games vs 2 appearances?) or AWJ. Maybe even Launch/Gray over both.

Watson/Tips is more the call I think and could go either way. But then Haskell also missed out.

I would 100% trust Russell I think he is exceptional but I know I am in a minority. I think if we need to chase a game (very likely) he would be the guy to come on a do it.

Based on the six nations Launchbury does deserve to be selected over Henderson, 100% agree. He was probably the player of the tournament, close with Hogg anyway. I think Henderson was picked because he covers 6. I think there is always going to be a number of players selected for this reason such as Daly and Payne.

I dont rate Haskell as highly as others. He is very committed, very hard working and has a good attitude. Id say coaches like working with him but he is never going to be the most talented guy in the team.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:09 am

Reading todays regular internet stop offs for rugby chat even the journalists and pundits are defending Gatland's nepotism... vomit

"With Biggar, he's probably gone with the most competitive person on that tour and he knows what he will get out of him."

"Gatland, who has coached Wales to two Grand Slams, chose players he was familiar with."

"Jon Davies has gone on his experience, hes a winning Lion and has played well in test matches" (hasn't beaten NZ like oh I don't know, Ringrose?)

"If you're purely going on what's just happened in the Six Nations, I think quite a few of the Welsh players have maybe been picked on what they've done for Warren Gatland in the past and on previous Lions tours"

"The fact there wasn't a Scottish voice in that management team to back the corner of any of the Scottish players - I'm sure that led to it as well."

"there is no doubt about it, the fact that there is such a Welsh influence within that management team has got a few of those over the line."

by Scottrf Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:11 am

SBW is by no means guaranteed a start though, they have loads of centre combos. Crotty; Lienert-Brown probably more likely.

by Cyril Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:27 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Surprised that Payne is picked. Seems solid and pretty good in most areas, but not Lions quality.

Is Gats giving some of his mates a free holiday to see their families?

Who would you have picked in his place? I think Ben T'eo is the real surprise inclusion in the centre. Has only played a couple of six nations games as a sub and looked fairly ordinary. Payne is a much better player and covers full back. Id take Payne any day of the week over T'eo.

I wouldn't have picked either T'eo or Payne. T'eo isn't a surprise though, as he's been rumoured to be on the plane for weeks. Payne has come out of nowhere. Both players should fit Gats' style though. T'eo on the crash ball and Payne as a steady eddy who doesn't make many mistakes. Both are midweek players anyway but hardly inspiring. At least T'eo is part British/Irish.

by robbo277 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:32 am

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Reading todays regular internet stop offs for rugby chat even the journalists and pundits are defending Gatland's nepotism...

"With Biggar, he's probably gone with the most competitive person on that tour and he knows what he will get out of him."

"Gatland, who has coached Wales to two Grand Slams, chose players he was familiar with."

"Jon Davies has gone on his experience, hes a winning Lion and has played well in test matches" (hasn't beaten NZ like oh I don't know, Ringrose?)

"If you're purely going on what's just happened in the Six Nations, I think quite a few of the Welsh players have maybe been picked on what they've done for Warren Gatland in the past and on previous Lions tours"

"The fact there wasn't a Scottish voice in that management team to back the corner of any of the Scottish players - I'm sure that led to it as well."

"there is no doubt about it, the fact that there is such a Welsh influence within that management team has got a few of those over the line."

With the nepotism angle, I think we have to be clear what we mean.

E.g. when discussing Tipuric over Watson, I doubt they listed their pro's and con's on a sheet and then put "Welsh" in Tipuric's column, underlined it and moved on to the next discussion.

But when they're discussing the less tangible things than on-pitch impact, like who will contribute to driving standards up during training and who can be a disruptive influence, whereas Gatland and Howley can vouch for Tipuric and his character and attitude on the previous Lions tour and previous Wales tours, there's no-one saying that Watson is a good guy, gets his head down, encourages others etc.

He might do and be all those things, but when you're looking at forging a group of players together in such a short time, character becomes important and there was no-one in a position to vouch for the Scottish players.

Do you go with a good player who you know isn't going to contribute to every facet of the tour, or do you go with a marginally better player who is a complete unknown quantity?

If this is really an issue, you should be lobbying for an autonomous neutral coach with the head coach from each home nation sitting in on pre-tour selection meetings.

by Scottrf Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:36 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I would 100% trust Russell I think he is exceptional but I know I am in a minority. I think if we need to chase a game (very likely) he would be the guy to come on a do it.

Based on the six nations Launchbury does deserve to be selected over Henderson, 100% agree. He was probably the player of the tournament, close with Hogg anyway. I think Henderson was picked because he covers 6. I think there is always going to be a number of players selected for this reason such as Daly and Payne.

I dont rate Haskell as highly as others. He is very committed, very hard working and has a good attitude. Id say coaches like working with him but he is never going to be the most talented guy in the team.

Gats obviously thinks we need control over invention from a 10. We will play a territory and possession focused game so I agree. I understand the criticism of Biggar but I'd trust him.

Itoje also covers 6, as does Moriarty and Stander. How well any of them do it is another question (not well or balanced IMO).

Yeah wasn't particularly advocating Haskell. But do think he could have an impact.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:40 am

robbo277 wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Reading todays regular internet stop offs for rugby chat even the journalists and pundits are defending Gatland's nepotism...

"With Biggar, he's probably gone with the most competitive person on that tour and he knows what he will get out of him."

"Gatland, who has coached Wales to two Grand Slams, chose players he was familiar with."

"Jon Davies has gone on his experience, hes a winning Lion and has played well in test matches" (hasn't beaten NZ like oh I don't know, Ringrose?)

"If you're purely going on what's just happened in the Six Nations, I think quite a few of the Welsh players have maybe been picked on what they've done for Warren Gatland in the past and on previous Lions tours"

"The fact there wasn't a Scottish voice in that management team to back the corner of any of the Scottish players - I'm sure that led to it as well."

"there is no doubt about it, the fact that there is such a Welsh influence within that management team has got a few of those over the line."

With the nepotism angle, I think we have to be clear what we mean.

E.g. when discussing Tipuric over Watson, I doubt they listed their pro's and con's on a sheet and then put "Welsh" in Tipuric's column, underlined it and moved on to the next discussion.

But when they're discussing the less tangible things than on-pitch impact, like who will contribute to driving standards up during training and who can be a disruptive influence, whereas Gatland and Howley can vouch for Tipuric and his character and attitude on the previous Lions tour and previous Wales tours, there's no-one saying that Watson is a good guy, gets his head down, encourages others etc.

He might do and be all those things, but when you're looking at forging a group of players together in such a short time, character becomes important and there was no-one in a position to vouch for the Scottish players.

Do you go with a good player who you know isn't going to contribute to every facet of the tour, or do you go with a marginally better player who is a complete unknown quantity?

If this is really an issue, you should be lobbying for an autonomous neutral coach with the head coach from each home nation sitting in on pre-tour selection meetings.

Why? Gatland has eyes, he watched as the 4 welsh backrow he picked were played off the park by Hamish Watson. He was in the stand! It was the same game that Russel dominated Biggar, Visser dominated North!

He was also at the Scotland vs Ireland game!

I hear a lot of he knows what Biggar can do.
Davies has a better CV than Ringrose.
AWJ has been immense in the past.
Halfpenny was player of the tournament 4 years ago.

Clive Woodward made much of the same noises in 2005 when he filled the Lions with his past it England players. If you aren't picking on form whats the point?

Even the Welsh fans were screaming for Davies to get a shot at 10 and drop Biggar. Now he's in the Lions squad? picard

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:41 am

Cyril wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Surprised that Payne is picked. Seems solid and pretty good in most areas, but not Lions quality.

Is Gats giving some of his mates a free holiday to see their families?

Who would you have picked in his place? I think Ben T'eo is the real surprise inclusion in the centre. Has only played a couple of six nations games as a sub and looked fairly ordinary. Payne is a much better player and covers full back. Id take Payne any day of the week over T'eo.
I wouldn't have picked either T'eo or Payne. T'eo isn't a surprise though, as he's been rumoured to be on the plane for weeks. Payne has come out of nowhere. Both players should fit Gats' style though. T'eo on the crash ball and Payne as a steady eddy who doesn't make many mistakes. Both are midweek players anyway but hardly inspiring. At least T'eo is part British/Irish.

Maybe T'eo wasnt a surprise because of the rumours but I certainly think he is less deserving than Payne and no where near as good a player.

Yes Payne isnt British or Irish and that has never sat well with me but that's the way it is.

by GunsGermsV2 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:42 am

Scottrf wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:I would 100% trust Russell I think he is exceptional but I know I am in a minority. I think if we need to chase a game (very likely) he would be the guy to come on a do it.

Based on the six nations Launchbury does deserve to be selected over Henderson, 100% agree. He was probably the player of the tournament, close with Hogg anyway. I think Henderson was picked because he covers 6. I think there is always going to be a number of players selected for this reason such as Daly and Payne.

I dont rate Haskell as highly as others. He is very committed, very hard working and has a good attitude. Id say coaches like working with him but he is never going to be the most talented guy in the team.

Gats obviously thinks we need control over invention from a 10. We will play a territory and possession focused game so I agree. I understand the criticism of Biggar but I'd trust him.

Itoje also covers 6, as does Moriarty and Stander. How well any of them do it is another question (not well or balanced IMO).

Yeah wasn't particularly advocating Haskell. But do think he could have an impact.

Oh I trust Biggar too, I think he is excellent. I would have picked Sexton, Biggar and Russell as the OHs and Farrell as a centre.

by munkian Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:45 am

Christ, one game. We are picking lions on the one game in ten years where Scotland were better than Wales ? Rolling Eyes

by R!skysports Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:46 am

It is no real surprise. He treated the Scottish players shabbily on the last tour

Hogg into a position he does not play and Grant not brought on even with Vuniopla weazing his last breath after 10 mins

by R!skysports Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:46 am

munkian wrote:Christ, one game. We are picking lions on the one game in ten years where Scotland were better than Wales ?

No, one year where Scotland have performed better than Wales

you do not get to 5th in the World on one game

by geoff999rugby Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:47 am

If Sexton gets injured we are screwed.

Either Farrell moves to 10 and the whole structure changes or Biggar plays and he is too limited.
Russell should have gone.

Sexton is the most important players in the squad, alongside Furlong (Cole is deficient around the park), and he is made of glass

Cross your fingers Fingers Crossed

by Scottrf Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:48 am

R!skysports wrote:you do not get to 5th in the World on one game

Well, that depends where you are placed.

by munkian Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:48 am

R!skysports wrote:
munkian wrote:Christ, one game. We are picking lions on the one game in ten years where Scotland were better than Wales ?

No, one year where Scotland have performed better than Wales

you do not get to 5th in the World on one game

Reckon you'll stay there for long ? Normal service will be resumed.

by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:51 am

munkian wrote:Christ, one game. We are picking lions on the one game in ten years where Scotland were better than Wales ?

One season, here let me help you.

New Zealand 94.78 1
England 89.53 2
Australia 86.35 3
Ireland 84.66 4
Scotland 82.18 5
France 82.00 6
South Africa 81.79 7
Wales 81.21 8
Argentina 79.91 9
Fiji 76.46 10

Last head to head Scotland won against Wales.
We also scored more tries than Wales.
Finished 4 points above them in the annual tournament.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:52 am

In amongst all the negativity, it is worth celebrating some good selections. I'm pleased that he found room for Elliot Daly, who is a very clever player, and delighted the rumours of Joseph missing out were false. I'm also very pleased that POM has made the tour. Whilst he could certainly make the Test XV, he'll also be a cracking player in the midweek fixtures. I'm also pleased that Watson has been picked, despite only recently coming back from injury. I'd like to see him get some time at 15.

Regardless of the small number of Scots and some tough 50/50 calls, it's a very strong squad.

by Cyril Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:52 am

geoff999rugby wrote:If Sexton gets injured we are screwed.

Either Farrell moves to 10 and the whole structure changes or Biggar plays and he is too limited.
Russell should have gone.

Sexton is the most important players in the squad, alongside Furlong (Cole is deficient around the park), and he is made of glass

Cross your fingers

Ah, so Lions success rests entirely on the backs of two Irish players.

Good to know.

by beshocked Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:53 am

I think the backrow options are good though only 1 English backrower and 4 Welsh backrowers seems a bit excessive.

Billy and Faletau as specialist no 8s.
Openside flankers – SOB,Tipuric and Warburton.
Moriarty,Stander and POM as 6s though Stander and Moriaty could be 3rd choice no 8s.

Only question mark for me is Moriarty. Robshaw or Watson would be superior.

Moriarty is inferior at no 8 to three other players and inferior to three as a a flanker.

by Cyril Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:55 am

Some say it was elementary but I think it was sheer luck that Moriarty got in and Watson had to stay at homes.

by Scottrf Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:57 am

Cyril wrote:Some say it was elementary but I think it was sheer luck that Moriarty got in and Watson had to stay at homes.

by offload Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:58 am

Cyril wrote:Some say it was elementary but I think it was sheer luck that Moriarty got in and Watson had to stay at homes.

by munkian Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:58 am

beshocked wrote:I think the backrow options are good though only 1 English backrower and 4 Welsh backrowers seems a bit excessive.

Billy and Faletau as specialist no 8s.
Openside flankers – SOB,Tipuric and Warburton.
Moriarty,Stander and POM as 6s though Stander and Moriaty could be 3rd choice no 8s.

Only question mark for me is Moriarty. Robshaw or Watson would be superior.

Moriarty is inferior at no 8 to three other players and inferior to three as a a flanker.

Moriarty is having a cracker in the Aviva at the moment, literally a player picked on form to be fair.

I don't get all this nepotism stuff, it was raged about last tour yet the Lions won. He's going to pick previous successful Lions players.

Plus Gatland is no longer the Welsh coach and hoping to coach back in NZ. He wants to win and has picked the players he thinks will do it.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:59 am

beshocked wrote:I think the backrow options are good though only 1 English backrower and 4 Welsh backrowers seems a bit excessive.

Billy and Faletau as specialist no 8s.
Openside flankers – SOB,Tipuric and Warburton.
Moriarty,Stander and POM as 6s though Stander and Moriaty could be 3rd choice no 8s.

Only question mark for me is Moriarty. Robshaw or Watson would be superior.

Moriarty is inferior at no 8 to three other players and inferior to three as a a flanker.

I'd agree. Moriarty has had a strong start to his international career and is a fine player, but Gatland has used the "experience" card to justify picking AWJ, Tipuric, JD2 and Halfpenny over other players in better form, and yet he picks Moriarty on form over Haskell and Robshaw (two vastly more experienced players).

by **RDW** Thu 20 Apr 2017, 10:00 am

I'm not sure where Moriarty fits in with this squad as we already have 2 genuine test contenders at 6 (PoM and Stander) and 2 test contenders at 8 (Billy V and Faletau). When you consider that Warbuton may be played at 6 and O'Brien can play 6 to a high standard then he very much looks like squad cover - and probably only at number 8.

by geoff999rugby Thu 20 Apr 2017, 10:00 am

Cyril wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:If Sexton gets injured we are screwed.

Either Farrell moves to 10 and the whole structure changes or Biggar plays and he is too limited.
Russell should have gone.

Sexton is the most important players in the squad, alongside Furlong (Cole is deficient around the park), and he is made of glass

Cross your fingers
Ah, so Lions success rests entirely on the backs of two Irish players.

Good to know.

Simply saying that the most important positions, 3 and 10, have Irish players who will almost certainly start.
Because the most creative alternative to 10 has not been selected we will have a problem.
At TH it is simply a fact the drop in standard is significant

In most other positions the drop off from 1st to 2nd choice is marginal

Its not rocket science

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