UK General Election 2017 Thread

[Muscular-mouse]

First topic message reminder :

Ok guys what are your predictions, how will you be voting and who do you want to win.

[CaledonianCraig]

I do find it quite interesting. UKIP have been decimated and people widely regarded their views and policies as distasteful. But those that use to vote for UKIP and their policies now find an affinity with the Conservatives - just shows what sort of a party they have become.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Is this the same UKIP that came within 600 votes of winning Oldham and were made the initial favorites in Stoke...

Those two big Tory Heartlands..

UKIP have become irrelevant so the vote has to go somewhere...and I can't blame them not going to Labour..

Your post was cheap.  Caledonian...and full of sour grapes because the Tories did well in Scotland....Try to be less emotional..

As for Corbyn.  Just go !!.. Let Watson take the Election...He isn’t perfect but he may keep the majority down...Give the  next leader more to work with.

[CaledonianCraig]

Is this the same UKIP that came within 600 votes of winning Oldham and were made the initial favorites in Stoke...

Those two big Tory Heartlands..

UKIP have become irrelevant so the vote has to go somewhere...and I can't blame them not going to Labour..

Your post was cheap.  Caledonian...and full of sour grapes because the Tories did well in Scotland....Try to be less emotional..

As for Corbyn.  Just go !!.. Let Watson take the Election...He isn’t perfect but he may keep the majority down...Give the  next leader more to work with.

You really have no clue on the Scottish electorate do you? At present you have independence backers who vote SNP or Greens and you have Unionists who vote Tories or Labour. However, they are tending now to vote strategically as in deserting Labour to vote Tory to protect their union hence why Labour's vote crashed in Scotland and was gathered up by the Tories. In short their doing well was down to the unionists putting their eggs more in the Tory basket hence why Tories gains match almost identically Labour's losses in Scotland whilst the SNP stayed virtually the same aside from devolved seats.

[TRUSSMAN66]

The party to watch will be the Greens....The only party to make gains along with the Tories...They have just become favorite to win Bristol West...Even more importantly Caroline Lucas is joint leader and will most likely be doing the ITV debate...With May and Corbyn missing that is great exposure and she is hugely impressive....There will be a few million watching it and she will only have one other heavyweight in Sturgeon.

Liberals haven't been forgiven....Labour are a joke and plenty of people like me would never vote Conservative..

If the Greens want a foothold in UK politics..and not be thought of as a wasted vote..

It is now or never....Everything starts somewhere..

[Ent]

Corbyn has to face the electorate, it is the only way the party will learn and can hope to rebuild. History repeats itself - tories shifted to the right after losing to Blair and took them 13 years and a worldwide financial crisis to get back into power.

Hard to know what to make of Scottish results given boundary changes, however SNP have lost 7 seats and control of 2 councils - we will see in the GE.

[TRUSSMAN66]

What won't be lost on the Tories is that the last polls before Thursday had them in the high 40s with leads of 22,19 and 17..

Thursday's vote finished....

Con 38
Labour 27..

Are the polls over stating the lead or do some people think it is such a formality they couldn't be bothered voting.

Voter complacency can be the difference between a mere hiding and a complete wipe out.

How many voters didn't vote but would have voted Clinton if they thought Trump would win ??

My guess is the Tories will go overtime on trying to convince people it is game on..

But will they listen ??.....

[Ent]

Low turn out for council elections - you can make an argument either way e.g. the die hard Labour vote have turned out for the local elections etc.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Usually suits Labour to have council elections on the same day as the General Election as Labour voters tend to be harder to get to the polls..

Conservatives are generally more motivated.....Same in the USA too...

But you may be right....

[CaledonianCraig]

Usually suits Labour to have council elections on the same day as the General Election as Labour voters tend to be harder to get to the polls..

Conservatives are generally more motivated.....Same in the USA too...

But you may be right....

But maybe that isn't the case this time around? After all the polls were predicting the Tories to garner around 42% of the vote share but they came in under that at 38% whilst Labour actually fared better than polls were predicting I do believe.

[dyrewolfe]

Just been listening to John Pienaar on Radio 5, interviewing Andy Burnham and various other folks. It seems Labour are gearing up to fight this election on national issues (e.g. the NHS, social care, education etc.) and trying to keep Brexit out of the equation. A striking contrast to the Tories who are putting Brexit and related issues such as immigration, at the core of their campaign.

Given that Brexit is still very much on many people's minds, does this seem a wise move?

Could the Conservatives take a hit for being seen to ignore pressing national issues, or will our collective desire for clarification on the UK's future see a continuation of the support they received in the local elections?

The Tories are looking for a landslide win in order to get their Brexit mandate and all Labour really have to do is win enough to restrict their lead. Guess thats why they were all saying the General Election is far from a foregone conclusion, despite the local results.

[CaledonianCraig]

Just been listening to John Pienaar on Radio 5, interviewing Andy Burnham and various other folks. It seems Labour are gearing up to fight this election on national issues (e.g. the NHS, social care, education etc.) and trying to keep Brexit out of the equation. A striking contrast to the Tories who are putting Brexit and related issues such as immigration, at the core of their campaign.

Given that Brexit is still very much on many people's minds, does this seem a wise move?

Could the Conservatives take a hit for being seen to ignore pressing national issues, or will our collective desire for clarification on the UK's future see a continuation of the support they received in the local elections?

Brexit is the biggest thing to hit the UK in generations and at the moment it is something that is at the forefront and is the most important issue. Now that's not to say the NHS, social care, education etc aren't relevant it is just that Brexit plays a much bigger part just now. The Tories realize this and are targeting that just as they are targeting another important issue in Scotland - the second referendum. They are targeting those two chief issues and will win votes from those interested in what they have to say (Brexiteers across the UK and unionists in Scotland). As I said on another thread Corbyn does not come across as feeling strongly enough on these issues. Where does he stand? Who knows? This leaves voters going where the know what that party's message is.

[GSC]

Problem is in Scotland the most pressing issue is Indy vs Union, which publically largely comes down to SNP vs Tories. That won the Tories a lot of votes in the locals.

Labour risks the same in the UK. The liberals are closest to filling that gap, but Farron has blown a golden chance to rebuild

[navyblueshorts]

I just can't understand why both here and America, the poor seem to be voting for people/parties that directly go against their own interests. It's baffling. 

I appreciate that people may not want to vote for Labour because of the problems there, but why switch to Conservatives?

Xenophobia (Brexit)?

[navyblueshorts]

Conservatives are selling leadership.

People don't have confidence in any of the other parties for that whatever their message. For Labour to not replace Corbyn is suicide. By a thousand cuts it seems.

Amazing that people are buying it then. I'm not sure that Teresa is demonstrating a good example of it...

[Hammersmith harrier]

I just can't understand why both here and America, the poor seem to be voting for people/parties that directly go against their own interests. It's baffling. 

I appreciate that people may not want to vote for Labour because of the problems there, but why switch to Conservatives?

Who would they switch to?

[TRUSSMAN66]

Usually suits Labour to have council elections on the same day as the General Election as Labour voters tend to be harder to get to the polls..

Conservatives are generally more motivated.....Same in the USA too...

But you may be right....

But maybe that isn't the case this time around? After all the polls were predicting the Tories to garner around 42% of the vote share but they came in under that at 38% whilst Labour actually fared better than polls were predicting I do believe.

Worth remembering when you see national leads of over 16 points etc is that it takes out the Local stuff......  Maybe the local MP puts him/herself about....Maybe the local party puts itself around and some voters feel they owe a sense of gratitude.   Perhaps the assembly has done good things which owe debts of gratitude....Maybe the party has a great ground game in that Constituency.....

The Liberals should really win back Withington after all Manchester had the strongest remain vote in the North West....But they won't because as Burnham winning the Mayoral by 43% (Above expectation) showed Labour are very strong in the area.....

Most Sitting Mps get incumbency bonuses..........Carswell kept his seat when the other UKIP Mp didn't in 2015 because he was a hard working mp and well respected.....

I think Labour will get stuffed......But I don't believe they will lose by 16 points......

No way....

[Ent]

UKIP's latest manifesto pledge.

Net migration to zero in a 1 in 1 out policy.

Well thought through that, how do they get any votes? The mind boggles.

[GSC]

They touch on some points that strike a nerve with people.

Rather than trying to occupy the moral and intellectual high ground over their supporters (because thats working so well for the Corbynistas) , offering actual rebuttles to those points might help

[Ent]

People are stupid, what can you do...

[GSC]

Generally, treating them like they're stupid is among the worst things you can try.

[Derbymanc]

As mentioned before Ent, the reason parties like these get votes is because the voters are either completely ignored by the others or they're looked down on and dismissed as being 'stupid'.

There's more issues than just 'damn foreigners' and they built their support (at least where i live) by offering to tackle problems head on that the others wouldn't even discuss (off the top of my head - Social Housing, Problem families, More Crime operations in the area, Town wide Clean up, more local facilities.)

TBH I thought they'd given up now as it all fell apart and they've become a massive parady of themselves, the fact that they are still getting votes tells you that maybe the main parties still aren't listening.

[Hammersmith harrier]

It was exactly the same during the Brexit campaign, people like Ent dismissed anyone who had an opposing view as stupid as if there is an actual right and wrong answer to things. I vote for myself as do most people.

[GSC]

Look at the Donald. Knew his target market, didn't speak over their heads. Meanwhile Hilary had a queue of Hollywood stars lined up to chastise the unwashed.

[navyblueshorts]

They touch on some points that strike a nerve with people.

Rather than trying to occupy the moral and intellectual high ground over their supporters (because thats working so well for the Corbynistas) , offering actual rebuttles to those points might help

Yep, they sure do. Xenophobia. Oh, and people aren't interested in accurate rebuttals or facts. Had enough of experts remember...

[GSC]

For some I can't disagree. There is no helping some.

But lumping anyone who might even lean towards voting in that direction in that group is idiotic. A different way of engaging would go a long way. Something worth bearing in mind for Labour's next leader.

[Derbymanc]

People are interested in the facts, the problem is that it's become so murky with noone being held to account for blatant lying (see Scottish Independance (both sides), Brexit (both sides) and anything involving the NHS that people can no longer trust what is being said to them. Then one side calls them idiotic/stupid/racist/uneducated/not worthy and then wonders why people desert them.

[navyblueshorts]

People are interested in the facts, the problem is that it's become so murky with noone being held to account for blatant lying (see Scottish Independance (both sides), Brexit (both sides) and anything involving the NHS that people can no longer trust what is being said to them. Then one side calls them idiotic/stupid/racist/uneducated/not worthy and then wonders why people desert them.

Mostly agree with all that.
People are generally only interested in facts that support their own views though, no matter how thin on the ground or poorly supported by decent evidence.

[rodders]

As I said on another thread Corbyn does not come across as feeling strongly enough on these issues. Where does he stand? Who knows? This leaves voters going where the know what that party's message is.

Well Corbyn is against the EU because he is anti-business and the Tories are against the EU because they are anti working people, and the EU is good for both.

[timex please]

It is a really depressing election - but the idea that anyone could elect Corbyn and McDonnell terrifies me for this country.  Today, Corbyn announces he will increase corporation tax significantly.  Hello - this is post Brexit Jezza - we need to encourage companies to stay or to come here for jobs!  His economic skills are on a par with Diane's arithmetic.  Where is that going to end, when the big companies up their stakes and leave? 

We need so badly to be competitive now because, for some strange reason, we thought we might be able to go it alone without Europe.  

Now, more than ever, I wish we had  proportional representation.

[dyrewolfe]

It was exactly the same during the Brexit campaign, people like Ent dismissed anyone who had an opposing view as stupid as if there is an actual right and wrong answer to things. I vote for myself as do most people.

Well said.

Can't stand people who patronise others or immediately label them as stupid, xenophobic etc. because they assume those people only have one specific reason for thinking & voting a certain way.

[dyrewolfe]

It is a really depressing election - but the idea that anyone could elect Corbyn and McDonnell terrifies me for this country.  Today, Corbyn announces he will increase corporation tax significantly.  Hello - this is post Brexit Jezza - we need to encourage companies to stay or to come here for jobs!  His economic skills are on a par with Diane's arithmetic.  Where is that going to end, when the big companies up their stakes and leave? 

We need so badly to be competitive now because, for some strange reason, we thought we might be able to go it alone without Europe.  

Now, more than ever, I wish we had  proportional representation.

To be fair to Corbyn he has already come out and said he will effectively reverse Brexit. Labour will seek to remain in the single market and customs union, as well as retaining freedom of movement (which basically amounts to re-negotiating our terms of membership).

Unfortunately a lot of Labour's policies are still very anti-business and will discourage economic growth. You can also bet ordinary working people will face tax hikes to pay for their social / welfare policies.

Totally agree with you about PR though. During the referendum it felt genuinely exciting, like your vote actually counted. First Past the Post feels like a relic from Victorian times or something, when voting was only for the privileged and educated (and men).

[timex please]

Hi Dyrewolf,

I think it is more than being anti business, I think Jezza just wants his revolution.  I fear he might have b*gger all idea what to do with it.

My husband disagrees with me about proportional representation saying that in Italy etc, sometimes nothing gets done.  Personally I think we would have more balanced debate and on issues like NHS and education, Parliament might make long term decisions to safeguard/improve instead of them being bandied about like political footballs.   It might stop the incessant tweaking with education - I am so glad my children are through school and university now!  

I also think it would be great to have more of a Green presence in Parliament.  Caroline Lucas apart, it may be one issue driven, but it is a pretty important one for all our futures.

[TopHat24/7]

It was exactly the same during the Brexit campaign, people like Ent dismissed anyone who had an opposing view as stupid as if there is an actual right and wrong answer to things. I vote for myself as do most people.

Well said.

Can't stand people who patronise others or immediately label them as stupid, xenophobic etc. because they assume those people only have one specific reason for thinking & voting a certain way.

Don't care about your rationale. Whatever it was, thanks for f*cking things up for the rest of us, since you apparently knew there'd be know £350m for the NHS, and that we'd be back into an inflationary environment, and that the £ would tank, and that we'd have no chance of negotiating a trade deal within a couple of years, and that companies would have to be paid to stay here, and that race-hate attacks would increase as a result.....etc etc.

[GSC]

I've always liked the concept that you elect an MP that represents you in parliament. Doesn't work out that well in practice I think, but not sure PR fits into that

[GSC]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08rwg4n/election-2017-christian-peoples-alliance

This is well worth a watch

[Hammersmith harrier]

It was exactly the same during the Brexit campaign, people like Ent dismissed anyone who had an opposing view as stupid as if there is an actual right and wrong answer to things. I vote for myself as do most people.

Well said.

Can't stand people who patronise others or immediately label them as stupid, xenophobic etc. because they assume those people only have one specific reason for thinking & voting a certain way.

Don't care about your rationale. Whatever it was, thanks for f*cking things up for the rest of us, since you apparently knew there'd be know £350m for the NHS, and that we'd be back into an inflationary environment, and that the £ would tank, and that we'd have no chance of negotiating a trade deal within a couple of years, and that companies would have to be paid to stay here, and that race-hate attacks would increase as a result.....etc etc.

Nor do I care about your rationale.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'm sitting in SATs week at the moment, with children being punished for not bending their commas and doing 36 mental arithmetic questions in 30 minutes - the system is dead.

[TopHat24/7]

Hi Dyrewolf,

I think it is more than being anti business, I think Jezza  just wants his revolution.  I fear he might have b*gger all idea what to do with it.

My husband disagrees with me about proportional representation saying that in Italy etc, sometimes nothing gets done.  Personally I think we would have more balanced debate and on issues like NHS and education, Parliament might make long term decisions to safeguard/improve instead of them being bandied about like political footballs.   It might stop the incessant tweaking with education - I am so glad my children are through school and university now!  

I also think it would be great to have more of a Green presence in Parliament.  Caroline Lucas apart, it may be one issue driven, but it is a pretty important one for all our futures.

You'd also have anything from Black Shirts to Red Commies getting in the way of any decision making.

The Greens are just a re-branded general left-liberal party. They were the (not very) 'far left' option before Corbyn bunny-hopped them with his Labour.

[GSC]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p052f7g5

Last one cut off his reply

[timex please]

I've always liked the concept that you elect an MP that represents you in parliament. Doesn't work out that well in practice I think, but not sure PR fits into that

In principle, I agree it sounds the best system - an MP that represents local interests. It's just it disenfranchises a lot of people if you live in a solid Labour or Tory seat. I'm sure we would get a better cross representation of the country's views with PR - perhaps it would mean that it was difficult for the majority party to push certain things through. There are lots of examples where that might not have been a bad thing

[TopHat24/7]

It was exactly the same during the Brexit campaign, people like Ent dismissed anyone who had an opposing view as stupid as if there is an actual right and wrong answer to things. I vote for myself as do most people.

Well said.

Can't stand people who patronise others or immediately label them as stupid, xenophobic etc. because they assume those people only have one specific reason for thinking & voting a certain way.

Don't care about your rationale. Whatever it was, thanks for f*cking things up for the rest of us, since you apparently knew there'd be know £350m for the NHS, and that we'd be back into an inflationary environment, and that the £ would tank, and that we'd have no chance of negotiating a trade deal within a couple of years, and that companies would have to be paid to stay here, and that race-hate attacks would increase as a result.....etc etc.

Nor do I care about your rationale.

Everyone's a winner then. Not.

[timex please]

Hi Dyrewolf,

I think it is more than being anti business, I think Jezza  just wants his revolution.  I fear he might have b*gger all idea what to do with it.

My husband disagrees with me about proportional representation saying that in Italy etc, sometimes nothing gets done.  Personally I think we would have more balanced debate and on issues like NHS and education, Parliament might make long term decisions to safeguard/improve instead of them being bandied about like political footballs.   It might stop the incessant tweaking with education - I am so glad my children are through school and university now!  

I also think it would be great to have more of a Green presence in Parliament.  Caroline Lucas apart, it may be one issue driven, but it is a pretty important one for all our futures.

You'd also have anything from Black Shirts to Red Commies getting in the way of any decision making.

The Greens are just a re-branded general left-liberal party. They were the (not very) 'far left' option before Corbyn bunny-hopped them with his Labour.

And yet without PR, a marginal party, UKIP has had the most profound effect on this country. Perhaps if the people with whom they struck a chord had representation in Parliament, there wouldn't have been so much frustration and a desire to give the government a bloody nose last June??? I don't know the answer to that one....

Terrified as I am that Jezza might pull this off (I really don't trust polls anymore) - I am equally (well very nearly) as terrified that, if the polls are correct, we will have no effective opposition. That's not a good thing with any government. PR would provide
an opposition in that sort of case.

[Hammersmith harrier]

It was exactly the same during the Brexit campaign, people like Ent dismissed anyone who had an opposing view as stupid as if there is an actual right and wrong answer to things. I vote for myself as do most people.

Well said.

Can't stand people who patronise others or immediately label them as stupid, xenophobic etc. because they assume those people only have one specific reason for thinking & voting a certain way.

Don't care about your rationale. Whatever it was, thanks for f*cking things up for the rest of us, since you apparently knew there'd be know £350m for the NHS, and that we'd be back into an inflationary environment, and that the £ would tank, and that we'd have no chance of negotiating a trade deal within a couple of years, and that companies would have to be paid to stay here, and that race-hate attacks would increase as a result.....etc etc.

Nor do I care about your rationale.

Everyone's a winner then. Not.

People like you are the problem, you like to think you know everything but are in the same position as everyone else not having a clue.

[GSC]

I've always liked the concept that you elect an MP that represents you in parliament. Doesn't work out that well in practice I think, but not sure PR fits into that

In principle, I agree it sounds the best system - an MP that represents local interests.  It's just it disenfranchises a lot of people if you live in a solid Labour or Tory seat.   I'm sure we would get a better cross representation of the country's views with PR - perhaps it would mean that it was difficult for the majority party to push certain things through.  There are lots of examples where that might not have been a bad thing

I can see positives for both, my fear with PR is a situation like the end of Obamas reign where party trumps country and we have deadlock

[TopHat24/7]

It was exactly the same during the Brexit campaign, people like Ent dismissed anyone who had an opposing view as stupid as if there is an actual right and wrong answer to things. I vote for myself as do most people.

Well said.

Can't stand people who patronise others or immediately label them as stupid, xenophobic etc. because they assume those people only have one specific reason for thinking & voting a certain way.

Don't care about your rationale. Whatever it was, thanks for f*cking things up for the rest of us, since you apparently knew there'd be know £350m for the NHS, and that we'd be back into an inflationary environment, and that the £ would tank, and that we'd have no chance of negotiating a trade deal within a couple of years, and that companies would have to be paid to stay here, and that race-hate attacks would increase as a result.....etc etc.

Nor do I care about your rationale.

Everyone's a winner then. Not.

People like you are the problem, you like to think you know everything but are in the same position as everyone else not having a clue.

I don't know everything. Always cognisant of that. The ACTUAL problem is people like you actively rebelling against anyone who might have a more clued up opinion than you on something.

The cancer of anti-intellectualism which has bred the fake news phenomenon society now suffers from.

[timex please]

I'm sitting in SATs week at the moment, with children being punished for not bending their commas and doing 36 mental arithmetic questions in 30 minutes - the system is dead.

You have my sympathies DZ. Every few years our children are told the system is dumbed down, their results therefore are meaningless historically, blah blah. It is just soul destroying.

I wish education was taken out of the political system entirely or that we could have a cross party committee so that decisions were not taken with the next five years in mind.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I've always liked the concept that you elect an MP that represents you in parliament. Doesn't work out that well in practice I think, but not sure PR fits into that

In principle, I agree it sounds the best system - an MP that represents local interests.  It's just it disenfranchises a lot of people if you live in a solid Labour or Tory seat.   I'm sure we would get a better cross representation of the country's views with PR - perhaps it would mean that it was difficult for the majority party to push certain things through.  There are lots of examples where that might not have been a bad thing

I can see positives for both, my fear with PR is a situation like the end of Obamas reign where party trumps country and we have deadlock

The biggest problem we have in the UK is the sheer number of political parties and the fact it's made up of four different countries. Under the current system the SNP have far too many seats but under PR Scotland and Northern Ireland would probably feel under-represented.

[Hammersmith harrier]

I don't know everything. Always cognisant of that. The ACTUAL problem is people like you actively rebelling against anyone who might have a more clued up opinion than you on something.

The cancer of anti-intellectualism which has bred the fake news phenomenon society now suffers from

That's just a convoluted way of saying 'I think I know best, you voted differently so don't have a clue'.

[TRUSSMAN66]

Hi Dyrewolf,

I think it is more than being anti business, I think Jezza  just wants his revolution.  I fear he might have b*gger all idea what to do with it.

My husband disagrees with me about proportional representation saying that in Italy etc, sometimes nothing gets done.  Personally I think we would have more balanced debate and on issues like NHS and education, Parliament might make long term decisions to safeguard/improve instead of them being bandied about like political footballs.   It might stop the incessant tweaking with education - I am so glad my children are through school and university now!  

I also think it would be great to have more of a Green presence in Parliament.  Caroline Lucas apart, it may be one issue driven, but it is a pretty important one for all our futures.

You'd also have anything from Black Shirts to Red Commies getting in the way of any decision making.

The Greens are just a re-branded general left-liberal party. They were the (not very) 'far left' option before Corbyn bunny-hopped them with his Labour.

And yet without PR, a marginal party, UKIP has had the most profound effect on this country.  Perhaps if the people with whom they struck a chord had representation in Parliament, there wouldn't have been so much frustration and a desire to give the government a bloody nose last June???  I don't know the answer to that one....

Terrified as I am that Jezza might pull this off (I really don't trust polls anymore) - I am equally (well very nearly) as terrified that, if the polls are correct, we will have no effective opposition.  That's not a good thing with any government.  PR would provide
an opposition in that sort of case.  

So we have effective opposition now ??

Politics goes in cycles....Starmer or Cooper and the comeback will start...Not sure who will be PM in 2022 but I'm willing to bet it isn't May.

[TopHat24/7]

Hi Dyrewolf,

I think it is more than being anti business, I think Jezza  just wants his revolution.  I fear he might have b*gger all idea what to do with it.

My husband disagrees with me about proportional representation saying that in Italy etc, sometimes nothing gets done.  Personally I think we would have more balanced debate and on issues like NHS and education, Parliament might make long term decisions to safeguard/improve instead of them being bandied about like political footballs.   It might stop the incessant tweaking with education - I am so glad my children are through school and university now!  

I also think it would be great to have more of a Green presence in Parliament.  Caroline Lucas apart, it may be one issue driven, but it is a pretty important one for all our futures.

You'd also have anything from Black Shirts to Red Commies getting in the way of any decision making.

The Greens are just a re-branded general left-liberal party. They were the (not very) 'far left' option before Corbyn bunny-hopped them with his Labour.

And yet without PR, a marginal party, UKIP has had the most profound effect on this country.  Perhaps if the people with whom they struck a chord had representation in Parliament, there wouldn't have been so much frustration and a desire to give the government a bloody nose last June???  I don't know the answer to that one....

Terrified as I am that Jezza might pull this off (I really don't trust polls anymore) - I am equally (well very nearly) as terrified that, if the polls are correct, we will have no effective opposition.  That's not a good thing with any government.  PR would provide
an opposition in that sort of case.  

Very good/interesting point in your first para.

Ref the second, I don't think you need polls or the future tense 'will' to point out the lack of opposition. Tories are going to win a GE without any policies or manifesto. Got to be about the first time in history that's happened.

[Sponsored content]