British & Irish Lions Squad 2017

by Guest Tue 09 May 2017, 1:27 pm

First topic message reminder :

robbo277 wrote:
But as I said, I don't want players to water down their comments. I want to read what the players think, I don't want to read what the press officer tells them to say.

That's fair enough, and I agree with the rest of your comment on this basis. I personally don't particularly care what Mike Brown thinks, especially when it's as obvious as "experienced test player is disappointed to have not been selected for the Lions". I could have told you that without Mike Brown's public statement. The point where it deviated from him merely expressing his disappointment to one where he's put his foot in his mouth is the fact he questioned the coaches' lack of communication to him personally. Even if he's right- and I think he may well be- to publicly bring that into question in the way he has done is antithetical to the whole business of a squad as a unity, a whole above the self.

As for him being a liability, I agree to an extent, but equally he does get in his fair few verbal and physical scraps. He's clearly not a player who's particularly in control of his emotions, a bit like Biggar, in that he wants to plead his case long after it is obvious his efforts are utterly in vain. He's not a catastrophe by any means, but having played with people like him, they can be liabilities. Ticking time bomb may be the incorrect phrase, and overdoing it slightly, but that doesn't negate the point entirely. Either way, it doesn't particularly matter, as I don't think it really affects his performance or mentality, and the players around him, too much: but if it did, it's hard to quantify anyway.

by Scottrf Mon 22 May 2017, 3:39 pm

eirebilly wrote:Maybe I have not seen enough of Wigglesworth then but when I have he has been the best open field kicker and has been very good at the rest.

He doesn't really provide any attacking threat in a snipey 9 capacity. All of the other contenders have much more of a chance of reacting quickly and putting the defence under pressure with a dummy, quick tap etc imo.

by eirebilly Mon 22 May 2017, 3:42 pm

Cheers lads, I stand corrected on Wigglesworth. I obviously have not seen as much as I thought I had.

by TJ Mon 22 May 2017, 3:59 pm

Scottrf wrote:
TJ wrote:Its not just Farrell is not good enough at attacking - its that his game can go to pieces when he is under pressure like at the weekend.

Really though? I would say the opposite. Anyone can have a poor game but Farrell is someone who pressure doesn't seem to affect. He was MOTM in the Heineken Cup final the week before yet now he can't cope with pressure. Nonsense.

two different things. He is very good with the pressure of the situation ie big games. Its when he is put under pressure during the game personally he CAN go to pieces ie when every time he gets the ball he has someone in his face, he is continually getting dumped to the ground etc.

by Scottrf Mon 22 May 2017, 4:00 pm

TJ wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
TJ wrote:Its not just Farrell is not good enough at attacking - its that his game can go to pieces when he is under pressure like at the weekend.

Really though? I would say the opposite. Anyone can have a poor game but Farrell is someone who pressure doesn't seem to affect. He was MOTM in the Heineken Cup final the week before yet now he can't cope with pressure. Nonsense.

two different things. He is very good with the pressure of the situation ie big games. Its when he is put under pressure during the game personally he CAN go to pieces ie when every time he gets the ball he has someone in his face, he is continually getting dumped to the ground etc.

Ah okay I get you now. thumbsup

I'm not sure which FH likes having players in their face though.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 22 May 2017, 4:02 pm

Wigglesworth is a good kicker, and good at harassing opposing scrum halves. His cover defence can struggle due to a lack of speed, which in part he compensates for with a rugby brain. This same lack of speed means he is minimal threat ball in hand. His pass is servicable, but not rapid and recently (according to BS) he is taking an age to clear the ball.

He is a good, solid SH. However he is slowing down.

by beshocked Mon 22 May 2017, 4:11 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Wigglesworth is a good kicker, and good at harassing opposing scrum halves. His cover defence can struggle due to a lack of speed, which in part he compensates for with a rugby brain. This same lack of speed means he is minimal threat ball in hand. His pass is servicable, but not rapid and recently (according to BS) he is taking an age to clear the ball.

He is a good, solid SH. However he is slowing down.

To be fair it might just be my perception that Wigglesworth was giving slow service vs Clermont and Exeter. Is it just me?

Of course generating quick ball isn't always the fault of a 9 but I felt he could have been snappier.

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 22 May 2017, 4:44 pm

beshocked wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I still think not taking Watson in the backrow was an error. He may not be the wrecking machine that Billy V or Stander can be but he almost always gets across the gain line and whilst carrying like a flailing octopus he drags in 2 or 3 defenders with him.

Well you know I'd rather take him than Moriarty and I'd probably take Watson instead of Haskell who I think has had a dip in form.

Not as if realistically Haskell would be a 8.

Now Lions are stuck with 1 specialist 8 in Faletau. I know Stander can play there too but he's not a specialist 8.

Yes he is. He plays out of position for Ireland.

by robbo277 Mon 22 May 2017, 4:47 pm

beshocked wrote:robbo277 his game might well suit 8 but he's only had 1 game there. He still must prove himself as a 8.

Perhaps this Lions tour will introduce us to Stander, the no 8 at international level.

I'd like it to happen and yes you are right his attributes should suit 8, just needs to show it now.

Okay, I think we largely agree then.

I'd also say the other options (Heaslip, Hughes and Strauss) all have their flaws.

by **RDW** Mon 22 May 2017, 4:51 pm

Left this thread before lunch and 4 hours and 3 pages later we're still going on about it?? Rolling Eyes

by IanBru Mon 22 May 2017, 4:56 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Left this thread before lunch and 4 hours and 3 pages later we're still going on about it??

But Miss, it was Carlin wot started it.

George Carlin at 5:02am wrote:Literally the worst injury we could have had in terms of irreplaceable skillset.

For me, this moves Stander to 8 and probably SOB to accompany Warbuton.

The question is whether Haskell is currently playing better than SOB. There's a good argument that he is. Whomever is the best ball carrier should play because we need heavy traffic experts.

by **RDW** Mon 22 May 2017, 4:59 pm

I've never liked that Carlin chap - a real trouble maker.

by robbo277 Mon 22 May 2017, 5:01 pm

To change the subject (slightly) then, I have a theory that Gatland is trolling Mike Brown with the selection of Haskell.

Brown name-checked Hartley and Haskell when he "slammed" Gatland as two other players that would be disappointed, and first chance Gatland gets he calls up Haskell.

If Ken Owens doesn't make it and Gatland calls up Hartley, I will take that as confirmation.

by **George Carlin** Mon 22 May 2017, 5:02 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I've never liked that Carlin chap - a real trouble maker.

British & Irish Lions Squad 2017 - Page 12 George-carlin

by Rory_Gallagher Mon 22 May 2017, 5:02 pm

RDW, I was going through the thread and came across that comment and replied to it, I admit that I should have read further to see that the debate on that topic had already come and passed.

by **George Carlin** Mon 22 May 2017, 5:08 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:RDW, I was going through the thread and came across that comment and replied to it, I admit that I should have read further to see that the debate on that topic had already come and passed.

Don't apologise to Her Highness! It's a free country.

In a moment I'm going to start a completely new thread about whether Phil Vickery has retired or not.

Because I hear rumours.

by **RDW** Mon 22 May 2017, 5:12 pm

Never mind Phil Vickery - I want to know who Ireland's best 13 was before Gary Ringrose came along!

by **LondonTiger** Mon 22 May 2017, 5:21 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Never mind Phil Vickery - I want to know who Ireland's best 13 was before Gary Ringrose came along!

Brendan Mullin

by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 May 2017, 5:25 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I've never liked that Carlin chap - a real trouble maker.

This is like Tony Blair and Gordon Brown all over again....

by Sgt_Pooly Mon 22 May 2017, 5:59 pm

beshocked wrote:carpet baboon

Well actually one could argue George is unproven as a starter, yes. The Hartley fan club seem to very much enjoy that point. Unfortunately George cannot get experience as a starter if not allowed to start

Here in lies the problem with George, he isn't a specialist starting hooker. Hartley is the specialist starting hooker, George the specialist sub hooker.

by BamBam Mon 22 May 2017, 6:08 pm

Well Warren Gatland has just said that Stander is viewed as an 8, with the ability to play 6

He's clearly ignoring all evidence to the contrary, this is just another reason the man should not be Lions head coach, I demand he is sacked immediately

Doh

by mikey_dragon Mon 22 May 2017, 7:13 pm

BamBam wrote:Well Warren Gatland has just said that Stander is viewed as an 8, with the ability to play 6

He's clearly ignoring all evidence to the contrary, this is just another reason the man should not be Lions head coach, I demand he is sacked immediately

Stander has always played 8 and 6.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 22 May 2017, 7:36 pm

That moment when Mikey turns up 6 hours late to an argument and misses the irony.

by marty2086 Mon 22 May 2017, 8:07 pm

BamBam wrote:Well Warren Gatland has just said that Stander is viewed as an 8, with the ability to play 6

He's clearly ignoring all evidence to the contrary, this is just another reason the man should not be Lions head coach, I demand he is sacked immediately

Sure what would he know Rolling Eyes

Gatland out, beshocked in!!

It can be the new Wenger Out

by mikey_dragon Mon 22 May 2017, 8:08 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:That moment when Mikey turns up 6 hours late to an argument and misses the irony.

Oops.

by The Great Aukster Mon 22 May 2017, 10:59 pm

Loving the arguments guys!
On one side there is fatuous illogic, which is then countered with blind faith - excellent keep it up.

Billy V being out is a blow? Really? The truth is he's not in the same league as Read given the style of play most posters would like to see from the Lions. He is a lump who is hard to stop but if the boat had stopped on North Island rather than continued to England he wouldn't have more than half a dozen caps for the ABs by now.

If Gatland thinks he can beat up the ABs with raw power he is even more deluded that David Icke - they've seen that one before (especially from Wales). Still Gatland should be allowed to pick anyone from the AP and Pro12 - it would have been good to see Picamoles in a red shirt...

by Cyril Mon 22 May 2017, 11:15 pm

Ulster fan? or maybe Leinster?

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 23 May 2017, 5:16 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Loving the arguments guys!
On one side there is fatuous illogic, which is then countered with blind faith - excellent keep it up.

Billy V being out is a blow? Really? The truth is he's not in the same league as Read given the style of play most posters would like to see from the Lions. He is a lump who is hard to stop but if the boat had stopped on North Island rather than continued to England he wouldn't have more than half a dozen caps for the ABs by now.

If Gatland thinks he can beat up the ABs with raw power he is even more deluded that David Icke - they've seen that one before (especially from Wales). Still Gatland should be allowed to pick anyone from the AP and Pro12 - it would have been good to see Picamoles in a red shirt...

I don't think I've heard a NZ'er actually rate Billy V which is quite surprising.

The guy is very special. Perhaps his size makes people pigeon hole him but he's much more than a destructive carrier, although he is one of the best going at that. He's fitness is right up there, he's often the first tackler taking down the man after a high kick. He's great on the deck and has great hands.

I'm actually gutted for the lad that he doesn't get to play this tour as I honestly think he could be the difference and would have shocked quite a few. On Read, he's fantatastc, especially in the air.....although I really do think Billy V is currently better (they are quite different players).

Just as a side note. I recall the same kind of thoughts being banded around about Manu Tuilagi before we played NZ in 2012. "Our boys play better guys than him every week" etc etc. Manu tore you to shreads that afternoon, Conrad Smith hardly got a hand on him and he was the difference for us.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 May 2017, 6:35 am

Aukster is an irish fan who hates the concept if the lions.

by Taylorman Tue 23 May 2017, 6:50 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Loving the arguments guys!
On one side there is fatuous illogic, which is then countered with blind faith - excellent keep it up.

Billy V being out is a blow? Really? The truth is he's not in the same league as Read given the style of play most posters would like to see from the Lions. He is a lump who is hard to stop but if the boat had stopped on North Island rather than continued to England he wouldn't have more than half a dozen caps for the ABs by now.

If Gatland thinks he can beat up the ABs with raw power he is even more deluded that David Icke - they've seen that one before (especially from Wales). Still Gatland should be allowed to pick anyone from the AP and Pro12 - it would have been good to see Picamoles in a red shirt...

I don't think I've heard a NZ'er actually rate Billy V which is quite surprising.

The guy is very special. Perhaps his size makes people pigeon hole him but he's much more than a destructive carrier, although he is one of the best going at that. He's fitness is right up there, he's often the first tackler taking down the man after a high kick. He's great on the deck and has great hands.

I'm actually gutted for the lad that he doesn't get to play this tour as I honestly think he could be the difference and would have shocked quite a few. On Read, he's fantatastc, especially in the air.....although I really do think Billy V is currently better (they are quite different players).

Just as a side note. I recall the same kind of thoughts being banded around about Manu Tuilagi before we played NZ in 2012. "Our boys play better guys than him every week" etc etc. Manu tore you to shreads that afternoon, Conrad Smith hardly got a hand on him and he was the difference for us.

Yes but he fluffed everything when he came here so it's a bit like Chicago where many got up on the day but never seemed to repeat the efforts again.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 May 2017, 7:00 am

Tuilagi sadly has been forever coming back from injury since about 2012.

by Taylorman Tue 23 May 2017, 7:11 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Tuilagi sadly has been forever coming back from injury since about 2012.

Yes true, he'd slowed a bit as a result. Thought he was great to watch at his best, a huge attacking threat who would have a go at everyone and everything.

by rapidsnowman Tue 23 May 2017, 7:12 am

6. POM
7. Warbs
8. CJ

A balanced back row with plenty of; guile, ability at the breakdown, another lineout option, leadership, and physicality.

SOB or Tipuric on the bench.

by eirebilly Tue 23 May 2017, 7:52 am

That is a nice balance rapid but I honestly believe Gatland will pick the following.

06 : Warburton
07 : Tipuric
08 : Faletau

POM on the bench.

Not a bad selection and it will do its job.

by Cyril Tue 23 May 2017, 8:09 am

eirebilly wrote:I honestly believe Gatland will pick the following.

06 : Warburton
07 : Tipuric
08 : Faletau

I think he'll go with that too. Even before Billy's injury it wouldn't have been surprising.

Not sure about the bench option but wouldn't be surprised to see Haskell there if he gets back to pre-injury form. He covers all three positions.

It could even be Moriarty on the bench.

by Gooseberry Tue 23 May 2017, 8:31 am

Taylorman wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Loving the arguments guys!
On one side there is fatuous illogic, which is then countered with blind faith - excellent keep it up.

Billy V being out is a blow? Really? The truth is he's not in the same league as Read given the style of play most posters would like to see from the Lions. He is a lump who is hard to stop but if the boat had stopped on North Island rather than continued to England he wouldn't have more than half a dozen caps for the ABs by now.

If Gatland thinks he can beat up the ABs with raw power he is even more deluded that David Icke - they've seen that one before (especially from Wales). Still Gatland should be allowed to pick anyone from the AP and Pro12 - it would have been good to see Picamoles in a red shirt...

I don't think I've heard a NZ'er actually rate Billy V which is quite surprising.

The guy is very special. Perhaps his size makes people pigeon hole him but he's much more than a destructive carrier, although he is one of the best going at that. He's fitness is right up there, he's often the first tackler taking down the man after a high kick. He's great on the deck and has great hands.

I'm actually gutted for the lad that he doesn't get to play this tour as I honestly think he could be the difference and would have shocked quite a few. On Read, he's fantatastc, especially in the air.....although I really do think Billy V is currently better (they are quite different players).

Just as a side note. I recall the same kind of thoughts being banded around about Manu Tuilagi before we played NZ in 2012. "Our boys play better guys than him every week" etc etc. Manu tore you to shreads that afternoon, Conrad Smith hardly got a hand on him and he was the difference for us.

Yes but he fluffed everything when he came here so it's a bit like Chicago where many got up on the day but never seemed to repeat the efforts again.

Bit unfair, he was still the most effective back for England on that tour in which they were more competitive than most NH sides are down there (certainly for two tests anyway). He made more meteres and beat more defenders than any other england player did ... so he must have been doing something right.

Anyway yeah its ancient history now and if he could spend more than 2 months without being injured or banned on the bounce that would be a great start but looking at the Lions options in the centers you cant help feeling hes missed. Theres some hope that Teo will come through as a similar force, and he has shone on the big stage in the limited test chances hes had to date ... but its stil areal stretch to see him even getting selected for a Lions test XV let alone single handedly rip the All Blacks apart.

Vuinpola definately is a hguge loss in a similar way. Putting aside teh argumenst as to whether or not Stander is a test 8 hes still a bit lightweight and not likely to make much headway on the hard yards. Nor would he be as efectiove as Vuinpola in running at the NZ midfield who will easily be able to stand up to him physicaly. Part of the reason he struggled to establish himself as a real force in Super rugby was his size. Unless hes been on the rice pudding big time that wont have changed ...and hes no Neil Back.
An all Welsh back row would just be embaressing for everyone, although I suspect Faletau will start.

by robbo277 Tue 23 May 2017, 8:51 am

Gooseberry wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Loving the arguments guys!
On one side there is fatuous illogic, which is then countered with blind faith - excellent keep it up.

Billy V being out is a blow? Really? The truth is he's not in the same league as Read given the style of play most posters would like to see from the Lions. He is a lump who is hard to stop but if the boat had stopped on North Island rather than continued to England he wouldn't have more than half a dozen caps for the ABs by now.

If Gatland thinks he can beat up the ABs with raw power he is even more deluded that David Icke - they've seen that one before (especially from Wales). Still Gatland should be allowed to pick anyone from the AP and Pro12 - it would have been good to see Picamoles in a red shirt...

I don't think I've heard a NZ'er actually rate Billy V which is quite surprising.

The guy is very special. Perhaps his size makes people pigeon hole him but he's much more than a destructive carrier, although he is one of the best going at that. He's fitness is right up there, he's often the first tackler taking down the man after a high kick. He's great on the deck and has great hands.

I'm actually gutted for the lad that he doesn't get to play this tour as I honestly think he could be the difference and would have shocked quite a few. On Read, he's fantatastc, especially in the air.....although I really do think Billy V is currently better (they are quite different players).

Just as a side note. I recall the same kind of thoughts being banded around about Manu Tuilagi before we played NZ in 2012. "Our boys play better guys than him every week" etc etc. Manu tore you to shreads that afternoon, Conrad Smith hardly got a hand on him and he was the difference for us.

Yes but he fluffed everything when he came here so it's a bit like Chicago where many got up on the day but never seemed to repeat the efforts again.

Bit unfair, he was still the most effective back for England on that tour in which they were more competitive than most NH sides are down there (certainly for two tests anyway). He made more meteres and beat more defenders than any other england player did ... so he must have been doing something right.

Anyway yeah its ancient history now and if he could spend more than 2 months without being injured or banned on the bounce that would be a great start but looking at the Lions options in the centers you cant help feeling hes missed. Theres some hope that Teo will come through as a similar force, and he has shone on the big stage in the limited test chances hes had to date ... but its stil areal stretch to see him even getting selected for a Lions test XV let alone single handedly rip the All Blacks apart.

Vuinpola definately is a hguge loss in a similar way. Putting aside teh argumenst as to whether or not Stander is a test 8 hes still a bit lightweight and not likely to make much headway on the hard yards. Nor would he be as efectiove as Vuinpola in running at the NZ midfield who will easily be able to stand up to him physicaly. Part of the reason he struggled to establish himself as a real force in Super rugby was his size. Unless hes been on the rice pudding big time that wont have changed ...and hes no Neil Back.
An all Welsh back row would just be embaressing for everyone, although I suspect Faletau will start.

I'm holding out a lot of hope for Te'o. It may be misplaced, but I think he's a strong contender to start the first test. Joseph and Davies both operate at 15, as do Payne and Daly who are the other centre options. If Farrell is going as a 10 who covers 12, Te'o is in a straight shoot out with Henshaw. Henshaw probably starts ahead of Te'o in the pecking order, but only marginally. I think this is one area where Gatland may honestly be completely open to form.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 23 May 2017, 8:58 am

I never really rated Te'o at 12. When he played for Leinster he was fantastic at 13, then moved to 12 to accommodate Ringrose and never really made the same impact. Does he play at 12 for Worcester?

by GunsGermsV2 Tue 23 May 2017, 8:59 am

Really hope Te'o doesnt start in any of the tests. Dont rate him at all.

by Rory_Gallagher Tue 23 May 2017, 9:00 am

He is a bit of a strange choice for the Lions.

by beshocked Tue 23 May 2017, 9:23 am

BamBam wrote:Well Warren Gatland has just said that Stander is viewed as an 8, with the ability to play 6

He's clearly ignoring all evidence to the contrary, this is just another reason the man should not be Lions head coach, I demand he is sacked immediately

Depends if you rate Gatland higher than Schmidt as a coach I guess.

Bambam my initial point was Stander isn't a specialist 8 when almost all his caps for Ireland have been at 6.

Similar situation to Daly. Daly plays mostly as a 13 but is picked at wing for England, I would not call him a specialist 13. He's been used as an utility back.

If a player is comfortable in more than 1 position they aren't a specialist are they?

Daly has proved himself more at wing than 13 at international level. Just as Stander has proven himself more at 6 than 8 at international level.

Now you can argue that Stander's best position is 8 not 6. That's fair enough. Stander might well be a better 8 than 6 at international level but as of yet there is little evidence of this.

Gatland obviously feels that way but then again Stander has beaten NZ as a 6 not at 8.

Ultimately backrows are about balance and if he feels Stander will work better at 8 then fair enough.

We'll see.

When I talk about specialist no 8s I mean players like B.Vunipola,Picamoles and Faletau. Yes I realise Picamoles isn't up for selection.

Farrell is not a specialist 10 or 12 either because he's got sufficient experience in both now. He plays primarily at 10 at club level but at international level he's played many games at 10 and 12.

by Scottrf Tue 23 May 2017, 9:26 am

If Mo Farah swims for cross training he's not a specialist runner I guess.

by Gooseberry Tue 23 May 2017, 9:27 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:He is a bit of a strange choice for the Lions.

Whilst I agree he was an unexpected and left field choice he does offer things that are lacking elsewhere in the backs. Mostly that hes a Kiwi. But also that its only really JD2 whos of a similar size, and if we go by Gatlands usual thinking regarding centers he fits the bill nicely. He plays inside and out which is handy for the tour squad (mostly 12 now for his club).
If they do end up with the lightweight backrow dont be amazed if Gtaland ends up opting for the most powerful centers he can.

by geoff999rugby Tue 23 May 2017, 9:32 am

beshocked wrote:
BamBam wrote:Well Warren Gatland has just said that Stander is viewed as an 8, with the ability to play 6

He's clearly ignoring all evidence to the contrary, this is just another reason the man should not be Lions head coach, I demand he is sacked immediately

Depends if you rate Gatland higher than Schmidt as a coach I guess.

Schmidt knows Stander is an 8 but he had two top 8's fit and his best 6 injured so he played one of them at 6 - simples

by beshocked Tue 23 May 2017, 9:37 am

Scottrf wrote:If Mo Farah swims for cross training he's not a specialist runner I guess.

Hasn't almost all his success been as a runner? Just as almost all of Stander's success at international level has been as a 6....

If Farah proves himself to a be a world class swimmer then he's not just a specialist runner is he?

Very difficult for you to understand, I am trying my best but it's tough.

If a player has 1-2 caps you believe they are proven in that position? That seems to be the case....

Geoff he's not been playing at 8 for Ireland though bar like 1 game. Now if Stander was uncomfortable at 6, like a duck out of water, you might have a point but he's clearly been successful in his primary position at international level which is 6.

Daly is not a centre for England, he's used as a winger. Maybe he can shift seamlessly to centre, he's still unproven at international level in that position.

It's not cover when you are playing in that position for 2 years. It's also disrespectful to say he's merely covering when he's doing more than that. Winning MOTMs isn't merely covering.

Daly isn't covering, he's keeping other wingers out just as Stander is keeping other players out.

Clearly Stander has built a successful partnership with Heaslip - Stander as 6 and Heaslip at 8 - that's the reality.

When Stander starts playing primarily at 8 then that will become his primary position at international level.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 May 2017, 9:40 am

Guess it comes down to people coaches etc identifying what a player can do and judge where and go he can play. Stander can play 8.

by marty2086 Tue 23 May 2017, 9:41 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
beshocked wrote:
BamBam wrote:Well Warren Gatland has just said that Stander is viewed as an 8, with the ability to play 6

He's clearly ignoring all evidence to the contrary, this is just another reason the man should not be Lions head coach, I demand he is sacked immediately

Depends if you rate Gatland higher than Schmidt as a coach I guess.

Schmidt knows Stander is an 8 but he had two top 8's fit and his best 6 injured so he played one of them at 6 - simples

Geoff it seems the simple is complicated for some

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 23 May 2017, 9:42 am

We get it.....you don't think Stander is an 8, everybody else to a varying degree thinks he is, lets move on.

by Scottrf Tue 23 May 2017, 9:42 am

beshocked wrote:
Scottrf wrote:If Mo Farah swims for cross training he's not a specialist runner I guess.

Hasn't almost all his success been as a runner? Just as almost all of Stander's success at international level has been as a 6....

If Farah proves himself to a be a world class swimmer then he's not just a specialist runner is he?

Very difficult for you to understand, I am trying my best but it's tough.

If a player has 1-2 caps you believe they are proven in that position? That seems to be the case....

I believe he's proven through his club play. He's covering at international level as you've been told.

It's the same person. And he plays like an 8 for Ireland so he's proven as an 8 at International level.

by **RDW** Tue 23 May 2017, 9:42 am

WHY ARE WE STILL DISCUSSING THIS steam

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 23 May 2017, 9:43 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:WHY ARE WE STILL DISCUSSING THIS

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