Maori All Blacks v British & Irish Lions, 17 June

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:I know I'm in danger of having massive egg on my face here if we end up getting a spanking, but does anyone else think that, in a way, the Maori team will face similar challenges to the Lions in terms of being thrown together and not having played together much? I know their basic skills are probably much better than ours as NZ players are just that much better generally. But I'm hopeful that some of the reasons why the Lions have perhaps struggled against relatively settled club sides e.g. our lack of familiarity with each other, new combos, learning new calls, new game plan, etc., might also be an issue for the Maori too?

So I'm expecting the Maori to perhaps not be as 'slick' as some of the club sides, but will obviously be a huge challenge.

Sod's law it will be a 50 point drubbing now I've cursed it!

What you say is true, and is technically the case for the main event next week too. Problem is we're hardly a battle hardened unit in comparison! Combine the ABs superior skillet and home advantage and that will certainly more than make up for their rustiness as a team.

I do think some of the SR sides will pose a sterner test than the Maori though.

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

Scottrf wrote:Any Kiwi? No.

mikey_dragon wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:I know I'm in danger of having massive egg on my face here if we end up getting a spanking, but does anyone else think that, in a way, the Maori team will face similar challenges to the Lions in terms of being thrown together and not having played together much? I know their basic skills are probably much better than ours as NZ players are just that much better generally. But I'm hopeful that some of the reasons why the Lions have perhaps struggled against relatively settled club sides e.g. our lack of familiarity with each other, new combos, learning new calls, new game plan, etc., might also be an issue for the Maori too?

So I'm expecting the Maori to perhaps not be as 'slick' as some of the club sides, but will obviously be a huge challenge.

Sod's law it will be a 50 point drubbing now I've cursed it!

What you say is true, and is technically the case for the main event next week too. Problem is we're hardly a battle hardened unit in comparison! Combine the ABs superior skillet and home advantage and that will certainly more than make up for their rustiness as a team.

I do think some of the SR sides will pose a sterner test than the Maori though.

And with the SR sides all playing the same type of rugby all geared towards the ABs, all of them pretty much being All Black B teams, rustiness is never a problem. We've seen it with the Highlanders recently and also the Chiefs last year when they stuffed a cobbled up Wales team in the midweek. Seeing as any Kiwi can play for the Maori then they're pretty much a NZ third string.

Griff wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:I know I'm in danger of having massive egg on my face here if we end up getting a spanking, but does anyone else think that, in a way, the Maori team will face similar challenges to the Lions in terms of being thrown together and not having played together much? I know their basic skills are probably much better than ours as NZ players are just that much better generally. But I'm hopeful that some of the reasons why the Lions have perhaps struggled against relatively settled club sides e.g. our lack of familiarity with each other, new combos, learning new calls, new game plan, etc., might also be an issue for the Maori too?

So I'm expecting the Maori to perhaps not be as 'slick' as some of the club sides, but will obviously be a huge challenge.

Sod's law it will be a 50 point drubbing now I've cursed it!

What you say is true, and is technically the case for the main event next week too. Problem is we're hardly a battle hardened unit in comparison! Combine the ABs superior skillet and home advantage and that will certainly more than make up for their rustiness as a team.

I do think some of the SR sides will pose a sterner test than the Maori though.

And with the SR sides all playing the same type of rugby all geared towards the ABs, all of them pretty much being All Black B teams, rustiness is never a problem. We've seen it with the Highlanders recently and also the Chiefs last year when they stuffed a cobbled up Wales team in the midweek. Seeing as any Kiwi can play for the Maori then they're pretty much a NZ third string.

This is sort of my point and question. If they're the same players as the clubs sides, but thrown together with a new coach and new combos, will they be as good as the club sides themselves? I'm sure some of the UK and Ireland club sides like Wasps, Exeter, Munster, Scarlets, etc. could probably beat the Lions too for the same reason!

ebop wrote:All contracted players are able to nominate themselves as eligible for the Maori All Blacks and, in the event a player is considered for selection, the team’s kaumatua (cultural advisor) will trace the player’s whakapapa (genealogy) to confirm his heritage and eligibility.

http://www.nzrugby.co.nz/what-we-do/national-teams/maori-all-blacks

Don't think you just say you're Maori and be eligible

Scottrf wrote:Yeah they play fairly often and their last tour had a lot of the same players. Team vs USA late last year as an example:

Damian McKenzie, Rieko Ioane, Matt Proctor, Tim Bateman, James Lowe, Ihaia West, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Akira Ioane, Kara Pryor, Elliot Dixon, Tom Franklin, Jacob Skeen, Ben May, Ash Dixon (c), Kane Hames.

So not the same as a SR side but not completely unfamiliar and with a load of talent.

mikey_dragon wrote:

ebop wrote:All contracted players are able to nominate themselves as eligible for the Maori All Blacks and, in the event a player is considered for selection, the team’s kaumatua (cultural advisor) will trace the player’s whakapapa (genealogy) to confirm his heritage and eligibility.

http://www.nzrugby.co.nz/what-we-do/national-teams/maori-all-blacks

Don't think you just say you're Maori and be eligible

Thanks. Any idea how they go about tracing it? I'm also curious as to what Paul Tito's link was

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

mikey_dragon wrote:

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

I've got no issue with teams doing their war dance or any other rituals, I actually find them interesting, but do the Super rugby teams need to do one before every match? It's not as if they do it when playing overseas in super rugby. How often do your schools' teams do the Haka, is it just reserved for finals?

Taylorman wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

I've got no issue with teams doing their war dance or any other rituals, I actually find them interesting, but do the Super rugby teams need to do one before every match? It's not as if they do it when playing overseas in super rugby. How often do your schools' teams do the Haka, is it just reserved for finals?

Schools do it all the time, and often involve the entire school, and I don't think just finals, in fact schools and the ABs are the only matches I've seen the haka regularly performed. Clubs, Super don't as a rule.

Gooseberry wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

I've got no issue with teams doing their war dance or any other rituals, I actually find them interesting, but do the Super rugby teams need to do one before every match? It's not as if they do it when playing overseas in super rugby. How often do your schools' teams do the Haka, is it just reserved for finals?

Schools do it all the time, and often involve the entire school, and I don't think just finals, in fact schools and the ABs are the only matches I've seen the haka regularly performed. Clubs, Super don't as a rule.

Do you not get bored of it?

mikey_dragon wrote:

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

I've got no issue with teams doing their war dance or any other rituals, I actually find them interesting, but do the Super rugby teams need to do one before every match? It's not as if they do it when playing overseas in super rugby. How often do your schools' teams do the Haka, is it just reserved for finals?

mikey_dragon wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Any Kiwi? No.

Obviously those with Maori ancestry, but I thought I read a kiwi on here say that it could be others who had been accepted into particular tribes. From that I took it as any kiwi being admitted to the NZ Maori. I could be wrong though.

Griff wrote:

cascough wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:
Murray - little threat ball in hand : True but his kicking game has been very very good
Webb - kicking too far : Has been excellent with his service and been the best attacking 9 so far
Laidlaw - Too slow : Controlling 9, nothing special from him
Sexton - General lack of form : seemed to be carrying an injury but looked better last game, next game a real test
Farrell - missing key kicks : Bit harsh for 1 kick as it was his first touch, been excellent in every other aspect
Biggar - too deep and poor passing : Actually feel he has been the most attacking 10 on tour so far
Te'o - Poor passing, failure to offload : Think he is getting better every game, certainly makes ground with every carry
Henshaw - Largely anonymous : Solid defensively but has offered little in attack
Payne - Failure to take chances, and missed tackles : Runs the defensive line well from midfield but has been generally poor
Joseph - General lack of spark and missed tackles : Has not had the ball enough to show his skillset but when given his chance, took it very well.
Davies - Poor passing, dropping balls when clear : Really have not seen that much of him so far but has looked good when I have seen him
Daly - largely anonymous : Not really given the chance to shine so far as he is not getting the ball enough
North - Has he played yet? : Has been the Lions best defensive winger so far, has had little ball to attack
Williams - Reckless and lack of ny spark : Good player but seems down on confidence after his yellow card
Watson - lazy and unable to kick : think he was very good when he came on at 15
Nowell - too slow : Hits rucks and offers himself up for a lot of carries, needs another game
Seymour - largely ineffectual : not defensively strong but very good in attack and good under the high ball
1/2p - Stodgy : I think he has been very solid so far, not spectacular but not bad


There we go, anyone missed?

Probably took this post too seriously but there are my response LT

Agree with nearly all of that.

Exceptions being...

Webb, whose basics I feel have been the worst of the 3, passing included. However around the fringes he has been absolutely electric. And Davies, who has had what 20 mins? But in that time managed to knock on at a key moment and wasted a great break by panicking and forcing a pass that wasn't on.

I pretty much agree on Biggar although I think his decision making has been questionable. Both he and Farrell have stood really really flat though. It's baffling to me how anyone could say Biggar has been too deep.

Exceptions being the Welsh!  Don't let Mikey see this!  

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

I've got no issue with teams doing their war dance or any other rituals, I actually find them interesting, but do the Super rugby teams need to do one before every match? It's not as if they do it when playing overseas in super rugby. How often do your schools' teams do the Haka, is it just reserved for finals?

Schools do it all the time, and often involve the entire school, and I don't think just finals, in fact schools and the ABs are the only matches I've seen the haka regularly performed. Clubs, Super don't as a rule.

Do you not get bored of it?

Not really, dont you get bored watching Wales play? Currently making it hard work against yet another SH side, leading Tonga by yes...a whopping five with fifteen to go....give me a haka any day.

Far more passion in a bunch of school kids than this crop.

Griff wrote:Nice dig at Wales, Taylorman. But Gooseberry is not Welsh as far as I know. English I think.

Scottrf wrote:

Griff wrote:Nice dig at Wales, Taylorman. But Gooseberry is not Welsh as far as I know. English I think.

I'm English and I get bored of watching Wales play.

Griff wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Griff wrote:Nice dig at Wales, Taylorman. But Gooseberry is not Welsh as far as I know. English I think.

I'm English and I get bored of watching Wales play.

That wasn't the point though.

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

I've got no issue with teams doing their war dance or any other rituals, I actually find them interesting, but do the Super rugby teams need to do one before every match? It's not as if they do it when playing overseas in super rugby. How often do your schools' teams do the Haka, is it just reserved for finals?

Schools do it all the time, and often involve the entire school, and I don't think just finals, in fact schools and the ABs are the only matches I've seen the haka regularly performed. Clubs, Super don't as a rule.

Do you not get bored of it?

Not really, dont you get bored watching Wales play? Currently making it hard work against yet another SH side, leading Tonga by yes...a whopping five with fifteen to go....give me a haka any day.

Far more passion in a bunch of school kids than this crop.

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

Griff wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

Griff wrote:Nice dig at Wales, Taylorman. But Gooseberry is not Welsh as far as I know. English I think.

I'm English and I get bored of watching Wales play.

That wasn't the point though.

Taylor's probably gotten you & Goose mixed up again Griff


Haka for us is a bit like singing at matches is for you NHers (and there's plenty of Kiwis who think that's weird too ) - part of the occasion.

Gooseberry wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

I've got no issue with teams doing their war dance or any other rituals, I actually find them interesting, but do the Super rugby teams need to do one before every match? It's not as if they do it when playing overseas in super rugby. How often do your schools' teams do the Haka, is it just reserved for finals?

Schools do it all the time, and often involve the entire school, and I don't think just finals, in fact schools and the ABs are the only matches I've seen the haka regularly performed. Clubs, Super don't as a rule.

Do you not get bored of it?

Not really, dont you get bored watching Wales play? Currently making it hard work against yet another SH side, leading Tonga by yes...a whopping five with fifteen to go....give me a haka any day.

Far more passion in a bunch of school kids than this crop.

Im not sure getting school kids to take their tops off and show you passion is really appropriate. But I guess thats a cultural difference.
I guess when Mr Takalua hears his sons struggling with Maths in school hell be heartened to know hes been concentrating on important subjects like gurning and stomping.

Same goes for the Welsh, no ones cares that they are rubbish at rugby and employ sacks of dead weight in the centers ...they can sing and wear daffodil hats. Its all about the show right.

ebop wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

ebop wrote:Out of consideration for Lions fans I just hope the Maori ABs don't perform yet another haka before the game on Saturday in Rotorua one of the spiritual homes of Maoridom in NZ. The poor Lions fans have already seen enough hakas. It's time to peg it back a bit and this Maori ABs game is the time to show restraint and not show them any respect by not performing one.

I've got no issue with teams doing their war dance or any other rituals, I actually find them interesting, but do the Super rugby teams need to do one before every match? It's not as if they do it when playing overseas in super rugby. How often do your schools' teams do the Haka, is it just reserved for finals?

Schools do it all the time, and often involve the entire school, and I don't think just finals, in fact schools and the ABs are the only matches I've seen the haka regularly performed. Clubs, Super don't as a rule.

Do you not get bored of it?

Not really, dont you get bored watching Wales play? Currently making it hard work against yet another SH side, leading Tonga by yes...a whopping five with fifteen to go....give me a haka any day.

Far more passion in a bunch of school kids than this crop.

Im not sure getting school kids to take their tops off and show you passion is really appropriate. But I guess thats a cultural difference.
I guess when Mr Takalua hears his sons struggling with Maths in school hell be heartened to know hes been concentrating on important subjects like gurning and stomping.

Same goes for the Welsh, no ones cares that they are rubbish at rugby and employ sacks of dead weight in the centers ...they can sing and wear daffodil hats. Its all about the show right.

Speaking of culture Gooseberry, isn't it about time the RFU instructed all the Islanders and kiwis in your team to come up with their own pre-match haka or something equivalent. It seems criminal that they haven't.

marty2086 wrote:Jackson and Toner won't leave Irelands camp, Toner I think is the only guy in there who calls lineouts and Jackson is the only fly half

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Jackson and Toner won't leave Irelands camp, Toner I think is the only guy in there who calls lineouts and Jackson is the only fly half

Ford/Russell & Launchbury/Gray would be ahead of them for callups anyway

ebop wrote:Probably pick some more Welshmen because they're in town. Wales played Tonga in Auckland tonight. Chuck em in bro.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I dunno if it's been discussed but NZ hammered samoa 78-0

ebop wrote:Roberts did ok against Tonga

Give Payne the flick

RDW_Scotland wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I dunno if it's been discussed but NZ hammered samoa 78-0

Just watched the highlights and although Samoa didn't put up much of a fight in the end it was a breathtaking attacking display.

New Zealand did everything incredibly well that  we have been struggling to do even at a basic level (if that makes sense) - passing into space, 2 on 1s, offloads etc.

If we're not on our game defencively and if we don't dominate possession we're going to really struggle.

Gooseberry wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I dunno if it's been discussed but NZ hammered samoa 78-0

Just watched the highlights and although Samoa didn't put up much of a fight in the end it was a breathtaking attacking display.

New Zealand did everything incredibly well that  we have been struggling to do even at a basic level (if that makes sense) - passing into space, 2 on 1s, offloads etc.

If we're not on our game defencively and if we don't dominate possession we're going to really struggle.

marty2086 wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Jackson and Toner won't leave Irelands camp, Toner I think is the only guy in there who calls lineouts and Jackson is the only fly half

Ford/Russell & Launchbury/Gray would be ahead of them for callups anyway

I wouldn't be sure about that, especially at 10

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I dunno if it's been discussed but NZ hammered samoa 78-0

Just watched the highlights and although Samoa didn't put up much of a fight in the end it was a breathtaking attacking display.

New Zealand did everything incredibly well that  we have been struggling to do even at a basic level (if that makes sense) - passing into space, 2 on 1s, offloads etc.

If we're not on our game defencively and if we don't dominate possession we're going to really struggle.

I like your confidence!

Gooseberry wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Jackson and Toner won't leave Irelands camp, Toner I think is the only guy in there who calls lineouts and Jackson is the only fly half

Ford/Russell & Launchbury/Gray would be ahead of them for callups anyway

I wouldn't be sure about that, especially at 10

rumpelstiltskindoh wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I dunno if it's been discussed but NZ hammered samoa 78-0

Just watched the highlights and although Samoa didn't put up much of a fight in the end it was a breathtaking attacking display.

New Zealand did everything incredibly well that  we have been struggling to do even at a basic level (if that makes sense) - passing into space, 2 on 1s, offloads etc.

If we're not on our game defencively and if we don't dominate possession we're going to really struggle.

I like your confidence!

The worrying thing was that Samoa had the majority of possession and territory. Defensively, with just a single tackler and only sometimes a supporting jackal, the All Blacks stopped everything dead. I don't think Samoa made a single line break.

Still, I guess Samoa had to deal with having had little playing time together, new combinations etc, not like the.......oh.