Maori All Blacks v British & Irish Lions, 17 June

First topic message reminder :

Maori All Blacks v British & Irish Lions
17 June 2017
KO: 19:35 NZST (8.35am BST)
Rotorua International Stadium, Rotorua

Live on Sky Sports, Sky Sports HD and SkyGo

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Touch judges: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. FORM:

Played 8, Maori won 1, Lions won 7

Recently:

2005-06-11
NZ Maori 19 - 13 British and Irish Lions

1993-05-29
NZ Maori 20 - 24 British and Irish Lions

1977-07-13
NZ Maori 19 - 22 British and Irish Lions

B. TEAMS:

Maori All Blacks 
J Lowe; N Milner-Skudder, M Proctor, C Ngatai, R Ioane; D McKenzie, T Kerr-Barlow; K Hames, A Dixon (capt), B May, J Wheeler, T Franklin, A Ioane, E Dixon, L Messam.

Replacements: H Elliot, C Eves, M Renata, L Price, K Pryor, B Hall, I West, R Thompson.

British & Irish Lions
L Halfpenny (Wales); A Watson (England), J Davies (Wales), B Te'o (England), G North (Wales); J Sexton, C Murray (both Ireland); M Vunipola, J George (both England), T Furlong (Ireland), M Itoje, G Kruis (both England), P O'Mahony (capt, Ireland), S O'Brien (Ireland), T Faletau (Wales).

Replacements: K Owens (Wales), J McGrath (Ireland), K Sinckler (England), I Henderson (Ireland), S Warburton (Wales), G Laidlaw (Scotland), D Biggar (Wales), E Daly (England).

C. PREVIEW

Good win for Lions today but keep it in perspective,because of the 1971
win this was hyped up out of all proportion.
A template for next week 32 points scored,6 penalties,a penalty try,
and a yellow card,plus great defence.Maori first game for 5 months
only Messam in the forwards had a chance in current AB squad.
Exciting backs but no platform in difficult conditions against a very
strong Lions side especially forwards.
It has as much or little relevance as the Samoa match good for morale
but don`t go overboard.
Analysing faults by both sides now in full swing Lions unlikely to
achieve more than parity up front next week.NZ usually find 40%
ball enough to win matches.Bring it on PS Scotland

I think it todays match has a great bearing on next weeks AB test if I may be honest emack2. This was by no means a weak MAB team and certainly came to play. They were, however, unable to play the game they intended to do due to the Lions domination in the pack and the set piece. People scoff about the amount of penalties taken by the Lions but what that does is put scoreboard pressure.

It was a very good blueprint on how to beat the AB's. Not sure anyone is really going over the top but it was certainly a very accomplished performance. Play like this next week against the AB's (winning the set pieces and starving the AB's of ball) and the Lions have a very good chance to cause an upset.

I liked the Maori haka. Very nice. It was right up there amongst the best in the world. I won't mention their rugby.

Thriller night.

Griff wrote:Why is everyone biting with this WUM? Even the mods! Take your own advice and put him on ignore. Or just ignore. You're all falling into his trap far too easily.

Why are previously banned users allowed to stay? Don't know who he is, but he's clearly not new. Hersh is allowed back too. Sad times.

No9 wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:I guess Gatlands Lions are going for 2nd place, will be an improvement on 5th place. Warrenball doesn't work against these guys.

Don't believe you are in NZ on a Lions tour. Why would you spend thousands of pounds following a tour you are so dead against..

But if you are, I really feel for the others on the tour. I would hate, spending all that money for a tour to have a boring, doomsayer on tour bringing every one down... Good grief, just start enjoying it, as true rugby fans do...

To be fair, if TightHers sorry head is anything like how he acts on here I suspect he is on his own there. Though his ex top level rugby stories must be a hoot

mikey_dragon wrote:Is it better to start with Marler and have Mako on the bench? Mako's scrummaging has previously been questionable although I can't really comment on it today having not seen it. Owens or George to start? Best will probably come in for at least one test I would have thought.

To be fair to Mako, I thought he scrummaged well today, as did Furlong. I would be fairly happy to see any combination of the English and Irish props. George is probably best deployed alongside Mako, so if Mako starts, George should too.

Yep, I'm all for combos. It's tough enough trying to get the players to gel in a few warm up games. If they're fit and on form, and part of a combo, then let's go for it. If that means an English front 5 then I have no issues whatsoever.

RiscaGame wrote:

Griff wrote:Why is everyone biting with this WUM? Even the mods! Take your own advice and put him on ignore. Or just ignore. You're all falling into his trap far too easily.

Why are previously banned users allowed to stay? Don't know who he is, but he's clearly not new. Hersh is allowed back too. Sad times.

Who is Hersh?

ebop wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:

Griff wrote:Why is everyone biting with this WUM? Even the mods! Take your own advice and put him on ignore. Or just ignore. You're all falling into his trap far too easily.

Why are previously banned users allowed to stay? Don't know who he is, but he's clearly not new. Hersh is allowed back too. Sad times.

Who is Hersh?

I remember Hersh

eirebilly wrote:I think it todays match has a great bearing on next weeks AB test if I may be honest emack2. This was by no means a weak MAB team and certainly came to play. They were, however, unable to play the game they intended to do due to the Lions domination in the pack and the set piece. People scoff about the amount of penalties taken by the Lions but what that does is put scoreboard pressure.

It was a very good blueprint on how to beat the AB's. Not sure anyone is really going over the top but it was certainly a very accomplished performance. Play like this next week against the AB's (winning the set pieces and starving the AB's of ball) and the Lions have a very good chance to cause an upset.

Think the diff Billy is the Maori are all Super rugby players and thought they could play that style against a side not having any of it.

The ABs play the northern sides regularly so are far more adaptable, so you won't get the ABs playing anything like the frustrated Maori side who simply have a tradition of playing open rugby at all costsvand they paid for it.

ABs will front with everything the Lions have and try and beat them at their own game but will also try to score given any chance.

Can't see that there's any template because that largely requires a rather frustrated non adaptable team, something the ABs won't be.

Having rewatched the Samoa match it was to try out combinations,injury
cover,and give a few new boys a game.
A solid set piece,good Defence but keeping there powder dry,like group
stage in2015 RWC didn`t really get out of first gear.
Lions will be harder to crack but expect an AB win but not by much.

I would be surprised if the Lions get with 10-15 in any Test.

What's the highest score the Lions have been beaten by in a Test?

That was a good performance, but we still aren't taking the chances we are creating.

I think the ABs are going to need a big step up over what we've seen from the NZ sides to date if they aren't to lose next week.

DaveM, do you reckon the Lions are favourites?

I was happy with this match as it confirmed that the squad is (a) sorting itself out as to who are the preferred Test lineup (despite injury disruptions) and. (b) gradually eliminating a lot of the errors that marred the earlier performances : in other words , doing exactly what warm up matches are designed to do !
Certainly not going to get carried away with this (good) win : as Taylorman points out , the adaptability and intelligence of the AB team make them a completely different animal to anything else in world rugby - and incredibly hard to beat. Still ; as Ireland showed not so long ago , they can be beaten. I would hope the Lions are going into next week with a firm belief that they can do more than just "compete".
Agree with billy they need to use this sort of game against the AB's - presumably the same 15 ? I have a sneaking wish for Seymour instead of North but I'm probably crazy

Hoping for a cracker of a game...

Cyril wrote:I would be surprised if the Lions get with 10-15 in any Test.

What's the highest score the Lions have been beaten by in a Test?

Australia 76 - 0 England.
England are now the Lions of course, according to their embarrassing fans who aren't satisfied until all 45 players on tour are England players.

You've been doing well but you're dropping to gwlad level there.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You've been doing well but you're dropping to gwlad level there.

Someone better let philbb know that one of his flock has escaped.

alfie wrote:I was happy with this match as it confirmed that the squad is (a) sorting itself out as to who are the preferred Test lineup (despite injury disruptions) and. (b) gradually eliminating a lot of the errors that marred the earlier performances : in other words , doing exactly what warm up matches are designed to do !
Certainly not going to get carried away with this (good) win : as Taylorman points out , the adaptability and intelligence of the AB team make them a completely different animal to anything else in world rugby - and incredibly hard to beat.  Still ; as Ireland showed not so long ago , they can be beaten. I would hope the Lions are going into next week with a firm belief that they can do more than just "compete".
Agree with billy they need to use this sort of game against the AB's - presumably the same 15 ?  I have a sneaking wish for Seymour instead of North but I'm probably crazy

Hoping for a cracker of a game...

North has not been great. He seems to have lost a lot of pace.

ebop wrote:DaveM, do you reckon the Lions are favourites?

Based on the last two Saturdays, I do. Of course the All Blacks, best side in the world for such a long time now, will be a step up and that step might be too much but I've been heartened by how effectively the NH players have competed to date.

until the lions start scoring tires in the backs and plenty of them they remain second best by a long way.

DaveM wrote:

ebop wrote:DaveM, do you reckon the Lions are favourites?

Based on the last two Saturdays, I do. Of course the All Blacks, best side in the world for such a long time now, will be a step up and that step might be too much but I've been heartened by how effectively the NH players have competed to date.

Oh they'll definitely be a step up, probably two or three steps up. I just guess it's whether that's enough. The Lions have done well so far the results about what I'd thought up to now.

I picked the Saders and Blues as the only two non test losses before the tour and turned out to be the Blues and Highlanders instead.

First twenty to thirty minutes is going to be riveting stuff.

Whilst I'm hopeful I'm far from optimistic - if I'm honest I'd be surprised if the Lions manage to win any of the tests ...

Heaf wrote:Whilst I'm hopeful I'm far from optimistic - if I'm honest I'd be surprised if the Lions manage to win any of the tests ...

I reckon the Lions will win one test.

Taylorman wrote:

DaveM wrote:

ebop wrote:DaveM, do you reckon the Lions are favourites?

Based on the last two Saturdays, I do. Of course the All Blacks, best side in the world for such a long time now, will be a step up and that step might be too much but I've been heartened by how effectively the NH players have competed to date.

Oh they'll definitely be a step up, probably two or three steps up. I just guess it's whether that's enough. The Lions have done well so far the results about what I'd thought up to now.

I picked the Saders and Blues as the only two non test losses before the tour and turned out to be the Blues and Highlanders instead.

First twenty to thirty minutes is going to be riveting stuff.

Interesting, because I don't think England are a step up over Saracens, even though England have the better players. I understand that things may well be different with the ABs though.

I see a lot of pessimism from Lions fans, but I'm just really looking forward to the game. I don't think thrashing Samoa is good prep for the ABs for instance, and I do think the Lions backs have it in them to spring a surprise or two. Of course if the ABs win I won't exactly be shocked, but basically bring it on!