Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[dynamark]

First topic message reminder :

He came across very poor as did fellow lib Clegg with his constant sniping at the Brexit issue.
Good riddance to both.Libs may well be a non entity now.
Tories have to proceed with caution now and build up some confidence again.

Our fire guy at work is telling us today that they really should have gone for a full evacuation at an early stage but that runs right against all previous policy putting residents and fire staff in potentially greater danger.In Blackadder terms it would have been going 'over the top'

[super_realist]

58% ,win ratio for england, statistically one if englands best managers.

Are you joking? Virtually every single one of those matches he won were in the hysterically easy qualifying groups. International managers are measured on how they do in tournaments, and in that regard Wodgson was one of the worst in English history.

Wodgson won a DISMAL total of three games in 3 tournaments and not a single World Cup game. He was a hopeless International manager (perhaps I'm being a bit harsh because England are always crud in tournaments).

[beninho]

Its a funny world where things are measured differently. As 37% and 39% win rates at fulham and the baggies gets you a good league position and a trip to a european final.

Anyone would think things are not all the same.

[beninho]

58% ,win ratio for england, statistically one if englands best managers.

           

Are you joking? Virtually every single one of those matches he won were in the hysterically easy qualifying groups. International managers are measured on how they do in tournaments, and in that regard Wodgson was one of the worst in English history.

Wodgson won a DISMAL total of three games in 3 tournaments and not a single World Cup game. He was a hopeless International manager (perhaps I'm being a bit harsh because England are always crud in tournaments).

I was just pointing out the futility and nonesense approach of using stats out if context.

[Davie]

I'd say 37% and 38% win ratios at struggling clubs isn't such a bad ratio. I think you are the one taking stats out of context. Surely every club in the premiership can't have an 80% win ratio?

[McLaren]

Kwini

I would agree that there being quite a few dodgy teams this year gives Palace a chance.


Super

I think sir Alex only had a 50 odd win percent. Roy is an OK but not great manager. So what? Did anyone think he was?

[kwinigolfer]

Top seven now is Top Six plus Watford. Watford??!!

Can imagine no-one outside the Top Six getting more than 50 points this season, there'll be a massive scramble around the 35 - 42 mark, probably for the other 14, incl Watford.

Last year it was:
6th: Man Utd - 69 pts
7th: Everton - 61 pts
T8: Hampshire (as was) - 46 pts.

Could be even worse disparity this year, and Everton certainly will struggle to get anywhere near 61.

[super_realist]

Kwini

I would agree that there being quite a few dodgy teams this year gives Palace a chance.


Super

I think sir Alex only had a 50 odd win percent. Roy is an OK but not great manager. So what? Did anyone think he was?

Ferguson was 59% Mac.

[super_realist]

I'd say 37% and 38% win ratios at struggling clubs isn't such a bad ratio. I think you are the one taking stats out of context. Surely every club in the premiership can't have an 80% win ratio?

Where did I state that someone should have an 80% win ratio? I don't think there's a manager in the world who has that, not even Brendan Rodgers in the cakewalk SPL.

What I do expect though is to consider someone a success at ANYTHING than you need to better than 50%. How can people say that he was a success at Fulham/WBA with 37/39% but consider him to be a dismal failure with 41% at Liveinthepastpool.

Most years you require 40 points to beat the drop, it's going to take Wodgson to go back to his Malmo/Viking days (which was ever such a long time ago, in tinpot leagues) to achieve this target.

I look forward to March/April when I can say "told you so".

[JAS]

I would imagine 40 will definitely be safe this year. I remember West Ham once going down with 42 points...even more incredulous they had Carrick in midfield at the time :-p

[beninho]

Whats all this nonesense about win percentages, people do realise you get a point for a draw aswell.

So anyway, if you take his record at WBA and Fulham, which I think most will agree was pretty good for what he had. And we take this much vaunted 38% win ratio, and his 25% draw ratio and his 37% defeat ratio over a normal season, he would win 14, lose 15 and draw 9 and get 51 points. I would guess at least 10 clubs in the prem will accept that.

It makes no difference though because the stats are pointless and its about the players. Palace could well go down, but the chances of staying up have increased having Hodgson instead of De Boer.

[pedro]

Agree ben. One point away against Citeh or Chelsea would be a huge success, even for top teams. Palace and the like don't play for the PL title or CL. Some would be happy to avoid going down, others would be happy for an EL spot (7th this year I think?).

[JAS]

The point I was trying to make yesterday wasn't about the relative merits of Hodgson vs de Boer and their win %ages or whatever it was more about the stupidity of knee jerk reaction sacking de Boer after 5 games causing a lack of continuity. Fascinates me how there can be such a radical change in thinking from interview/appointment to sacking in such a short period of time. DeBoer represented an attempt change direction, perhaps an aspiration to the Ajax way. Maybe it would have worked, maybe it wouldn't, the fact is the board didn't have the courage of their convictions to see it through. A few weeks later they've gone for a steady plodder hoping for survival. Maybe they'll be proved right maybe they won't, if they do go down, they'll have absolutely no one to blame but themselves.

[raycastleunited]

What I do expect though is to consider someone a success at ANYTHING than you need to better than 50%. How can people say that he was a success at Fulham/WBA with 37/39% but consider him to be a dismal failure with 41% at Liveinthepastpool.

Most years you require 40 points to beat the drop, it's going to take Wodgson to go back to his Malmo/Viking days (which was ever such a long time ago, in tinpot leagues) to achieve this target.

I look forward to March/April when I can say "told you so".

I see Super has moved on to Wummery. Whereas Mac now seems to post considered opinions. Vive la evolution!

[beninho]

As Malcolm Tucker said "Sacked after twelve months, looks like you've Frak up. Sacked after a week, looks like he's Frak up." The board at palace look like they fuked this one up with the appointment of De Boer.

[navyblueshorts]

Whats all this nonesense about win percentages, people do realise you get a point for a draw aswell.

So anyway, if you take his record at WBA and Fulham, which I think most will agree was pretty good for what he had. And we take this much vaunted 38% win ratio, and his 25% draw ratio and his 37% defeat ratio over a normal season, he would win 14, lose 15 and draw 9 and get 51 points. I would guess at least 10 clubs in the prem will accept that.

It makes no difference though because the stats are pointless and its about the players. Palace could well go down, but the chances of staying up have increased having Hodgson instead of De Boer.

How can you possibly know this?

[beninho]

Whats all this nonesense about win percentages, people do realise you get a point for a draw aswell.

So anyway, if you take his record at WBA and Fulham, which I think most will agree was pretty good for what he had. And we take this much vaunted 38% win ratio, and his 25% draw ratio and his 37% defeat ratio over a normal season, he would win 14, lose 15 and draw 9 and get 51 points. I would guess at least 10 clubs in the prem will accept that.

It makes no difference though because the stats are pointless and its about the players. Palace could well go down, but the chances of staying up have increased having Hodgson instead of De Boer.

How can you possibly know this?

Because I am a robot from the future and I have seen that Palace stay up and finish 17th on 41 points, United win the league. Brighton, Southampton and Swansea down. Shakespeare next man sacked.

[navyblueshorts]

Whats all this nonesense about win percentages, people do realise you get a point for a draw aswell.

So anyway, if you take his record at WBA and Fulham, which I think most will agree was pretty good for what he had. And we take this much vaunted 38% win ratio, and his 25% draw ratio and his 37% defeat ratio over a normal season, he would win 14, lose 15 and draw 9 and get 51 points. I would guess at least 10 clubs in the prem will accept that.

It makes no difference though because the stats are pointless and its about the players. Palace could well go down, but the chances of staying up have increased having Hodgson instead of De Boer.

How can you possibly know this?

Because I am a robot from the future and I have seen that Palace stay up and finish 17th on 41 points, United win the league. Brighton, Southampton and Swansea down. Shakespeare next man sacked.

[super_realist]

What I do expect though is to consider someone a success at ANYTHING than you need to better than 50%. How can people say that he was a success at Fulham/WBA with 37/39% but consider him to be a dismal failure with 41% at Liveinthepastpool.

Most years you require 40 points to beat the drop, it's going to take Wodgson to go back to his Malmo/Viking days (which was ever such a long time ago, in tinpot leagues) to achieve this target.

I look forward to March/April when I can say "told you so".

I see Super has moved on to Wummery. Whereas Mac now seems to post considered opinions. Vive la evolution!

How am I wumming? I can't see how Wodgson is in any way going to steer Palace to survival. He's got 32 games to get 40 points. Not very likely is it?

[super_realist]

Whats all this nonesense about win percentages, people do realise you get a point for a draw aswell.

So anyway, if you take his record at WBA and Fulham, which I think most will agree was pretty good for what he had. And we take this much vaunted 38% win ratio, and his 25% draw ratio and his 37% defeat ratio over a normal season, he would win 14, lose 15 and draw 9 and get 51 points. I would guess at least 10 clubs in the prem will accept that.

It makes no difference though because the stats are pointless and its about the players. Palace could well go down, but the chances of staying up have increased having Hodgson instead of De Boer.

Based on what? De Boer had a better record in his previous clubs than Hodgson ever did with his.

[beninho]

I just feel that someone with premier league experience will cope better with a relegation battle. De boer did well ar ajax, though most do, he did stink the place out at inter.

To last only 20odd games at two clubs is usually sonethibg to do with the person rather then just results.

[Be_the_ball]

Whats all this nonesense about win percentages, people do realise you get a point for a draw aswell.

So anyway, if you take his record at WBA and Fulham, which I think most will agree was pretty good for what he had. And we take this much vaunted 38% win ratio, and his 25% draw ratio and his 37% defeat ratio over a normal season, he would win 14, lose 15 and draw 9 and get 51 points. I would guess at least 10 clubs in the prem will accept that.

It makes no difference though because the stats are pointless and its about the players. Palace could well go down, but the chances of staying up have increased having Hodgson instead of De Boer.

How can you possibly know this?

Because I am a robot from the future and I have seen that Palace stay up and finish 17th on 41 points, United win the league. Brighton, Southampton and Swansea down. Shakespeare next man sacked.

Can you tell me next weeks winning Lotto numbers? There's a brand new can of WD40 in it for you if correct.

[super_realist]

Why does Kloppy not play Andrew Robertson at left back instead of the hopeless Moreno? Even Hodgson would know this is a better fit.

[raycastleunited]

What I do expect though is to consider someone a success at ANYTHING than you need to better than 50%. How can people say that he was a success at Fulham/WBA with 37/39% but consider him to be a dismal failure with 41% at Liveinthepastpool.

Most years you require 40 points to beat the drop, it's going to take Wodgson to go back to his Malmo/Viking days (which was ever such a long time ago, in tinpot leagues) to achieve this target.

I look forward to March/April when I can say "told you so".

I see Super has moved on to Wummery. Whereas Mac now seems to post considered opinions. Vive la evolution!

How am I wumming? I can't see how Wodgson is in any way going to steer Palace to survival. He's got 32 games to get 40 points. Not very likely is it?

You are wumming because you know that 39% win rate at West Brom is a decent achievement given the status of the club and is enough to stay up comfortably. And you also know that 41% win rate at Liverpool is poor given the resources available and the fact he inherited a team that had recently won the Champions League, won the FA Cup, been runner up in the Champions League and also runner up in the Premiership.

[McLaren]

Why does Kloppy not play Andrew Robertson at left back instead of the hopeless Moreno? Even Hodgson would know this is a better fit.

Moreno is in the Jordan Henderson category of how the f$$k are they playing in the premier league?

[super_realist]

What I do expect though is to consider someone a success at ANYTHING than you need to better than 50%. How can people say that he was a success at Fulham/WBA with 37/39% but consider him to be a dismal failure with 41% at Liveinthepastpool.

Most years you require 40 points to beat the drop, it's going to take Wodgson to go back to his Malmo/Viking days (which was ever such a long time ago, in tinpot leagues) to achieve this target.

I look forward to March/April when I can say "told you so".

I see Super has moved on to Wummery. Whereas Mac now seems to post considered opinions. Vive la evolution!

How am I wumming? I can't see how Wodgson is in any way going to steer Palace to survival. He's got 32 games to get 40 points. Not very likely is it?

You are wumming because you know that 39% win rate at West Brom is a decent achievement given the status of the club and is enough to stay up comfortably. And you also know that 41% win rate at Liverpool is poor given the resources available and the fact he inherited a team that had recently won the Champions League, won the FA Cup, been runner up in the Champions League and also runner up in the Premiership.

It's not a good return when you are charged with getting a deadbeat team out of the relegation threat. Given his record with lowly teams, it's going to be nip and tuck to see if he can do it, but no team has had a worse start to the season and survived, so what makes Wodgson a good choice? He's just another Ian "Onion" Holloway, Mick McCarthy, Sam Allardyce, Alan Curbishly etc. A loser manager for loser teams.

Wodgson didn't inherit a team which had "recently" won the Champions League at all. There was SIX (6) years between the teams. How can you call that recent given the turnover of staff?  Since that win, they've failed to get into the top 4 more than they actually did.

Liverpool had been very average in the years between Champions League and Wodgson taking over. Let's not forget bloody WIGAN and PORTSMOUTH also won the FA Cup in the last 10 years whilst dross like Millwall and West Ham have made the final, so let's not highlight that as a particular achievement when the real top teams don't care about it and continually put out second string teams.

[beninho]

Roy hidgson is Poopie because he has a 39% win rate with crap teams. Yet based on these same stats his win rate alone gets 44 points. Therefore he would do the job rewuired. Add his percentage of draws you get over 50 points. Stop using stats tgat make you look like a moron.

[raycastleunited]

"It's not a good return when you are charged with getting a deadbeat team out of the relegation threat." - well yes it is. 39% win rate is enough to comfortably avoid relegation (see Beninho posts).

"Liverpool had been very average in the years between Champions League and Wodgson taking over." - In May 2009 they finished 2nd in the Premier league with 86 points, that total is often enough to win the league. Hodgson was appointed not long after in June 2010. As Benitez would say maybe we should talk about "facts". I am not playing mind games, just facts.

[super_realist]

Sorry, Benitez didn't inherit a team which had just "won" the Champions League, that team was SIX years before, if you want to talk about facts.

Yes, they finished 2nd in the league ONCE, but they failed to make top 4 more than 50% of the time during the period they won the Chumpions League and Wodgsons reign.

Let's see if Woy can pull them out of trouble, I'll bet a tenner he can't.

For your information, Woy has 32 games, 39% of that in wins equals 42 points, not 44, his draw ratio in the last 10 years of club management would yield him another 8 points, yet, he's got no fit strikers, and he's getting the hapless Carlton Cole in, so where are those points going to come from?

[Diggers]

City rock solid at the back today, amazing what knowing your system and having a decent keeper makes. Stones looking quality, Walker doing exactly what they paid the money for him to do, come straight into the side and make a difference.
Good to see Delph back playing well, bit of a forgotten man, again knows how to help with defensive cover at left back, centre mid now very different from having an over the hill Yaya Toure in front of your centre backs.

[super_realist]

For your information, Woy has 321 games, 39% of that in wins equals 42 39 points, not 44, his draw ratio in the last 10 years of club management would yield him another 87 points, yet, he's got no fit strikers, and he's getting the hapless Carlton Cole in, so where are those points going to come from?

Another pumping for Woy Wodgson today and a fair few more grains of sand getting through the egg timer.

[Diggers]

I don't much like Palace, and am fairly ambivalent to Roy, but Man Utd are pumping everyone at home. I'd judge him after a few more "normal" fixtures, mind you having no strikers won't help and isn't Rots fault.
I can't see 40 points being needed to stay up this year, maybe 35 will even do it, not saying I think Palace will get that many but I wouldn't write them off yet.

[kwinigolfer]

Let's hope what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas . . . . . . .

[McLaren]

Kwini

Will there be a travel ban on people who don't like country music? To be fair, it would pretty much stop the rest of the world trying to come to the USA.

[kwinigolfer]

Mac,
With most Americans in favour of the laws that allow lunatics access to the types of guns and ammo that this wally had, it's only a matter of time before someone bats on from 50 fatalities and goes for the ton. And it's their money and rhetoric that produces government like they now have.

[pedro]

Where does the dislike of country music and its listeners fit in then? Wouldn't you rather target a grunge concert?

[beninho]

I really struggle to understand the gun issues in America. How can so many people be so pro gun when things like this happen aswell as the everyday smaller shootings. It's just crazy.

[Davie]

well - the pro-gun lobby's argument is that people will always be able to get hold of guns whether they are legal or not. What they don't seem to consider is how much harder it would make it

Sure - if they have that sort of mentality, then getting hold of an illegal gun and ammo probably wouldn't be that difficult .. but it would as least be a start to make it a little bit harder!

[McLaren]

Where does the dislike of country music and its listeners fit in then? Wouldn't you rather target a grunge concert?

He shot people at a country music festival. In Trumps mind anti country music types should now be barred from the USA. 

I wouldn't target any concert.

[kwinigolfer]

Who would you target Mac?

[super_realist]

Mac,
With most Americans in favour of the laws that allow lunatics access to the types of guns and ammo that this wally had, it's only a matter of time before someone bats on from 50 fatalities and goes for the ton. And it's their money and rhetoric that produces government like they now have.

Over 215 mass shootings (4 or more deaths) in America this year alone.

I don't want to take guns away from the Yanks, but they do a good job of demonstrating that a great many aren't mature enough to own them.

How can any Yank be against the checks being more stringent as to determine who is responsible enough to own a gun and who is not.

[kwinigolfer]

Mac,
With most Americans in favour of the laws that allow lunatics access to the types of guns and ammo that this wally had, it's only a matter of time before someone bats on from 50 fatalities and goes for the ton. And it's their money and rhetoric that produces government like they now have.

Over 215 mass shootings (4 or more deaths) in America this year alone.

I don't want to take guns away from the Yanks, but they do a good job of demonstrating that a great many aren't mature enough to own them.

How can any Yank be against the checks being more stringent as to determine who is responsible enough to own a gun and who is not.

super,
It's called the NRA; they make careers out of intimidating Congress to vote against any gun control. The gun lobby is ferocious in its demonising those they consider could be sensible in any way shape or form.
And touchy feely liberal Vermont (Bernie Sanders et al) is just as bad as the rest of 'em. New York a state with some of the most sensible laws which has caused the NRA c---s to cause one of the leading gun makers to move its manufacturing to Alabama. You know Alabama, the state which had it Republican Senate candidate toting a hand gun during his acceptance speech a week or so ago.

[JAS]

Have to say the NRA mouthpieces they put up at these times are very well drilled in obfuscation. The goon that they had on GMTV this morning, instead of answering the simple question about whether there was a need for better gun control deflecting onto the "misleading naming of gun types" When asked again more directly about the need for powerful weapons to be banned, he then insisted that the weapon(s) involved weren't that powerful!!!! Sweet effing mother of Jesus that is a very very special kind of stupid mixed with ignorance. I had to leave for work at that point which was a shame as I was looking forward to Piers Morgan handing him his balls on a plate with an argument that stupid.


I'm not in any way a fan of Piers Morgan but I do find it amusing when he rips into the stupidity of the NRA argument.

[kwinigolfer]

JAS,
That's probably why Morgan (who I detest!) got drummed out of USA TV!

[JAS]

That's the other fascinating thing Kwini, how can an organisation so brimful of class A illogical idiots have accumulated enough wealth to buy off opposing views??

[kwinigolfer]

That's the other fascinating thing Kwini, how can an organisation so brimful of class A illogical idiots have accumulated enough wealth to buy off opposing views??

Because they live in a country where the apparent majority, or at least enough to elect a president, are class A illogical idiots who have certainly accumulated enough wealth to buy who the hell they want.

[beninho]

Piers Morgan is a prick, how can he be on TV at the same time his old company were paying out for phone tapping when he was in charge.

[pedro]

The Americans have the best politicians money can buy.

[pedro]

Because they live in a country where the apparent majority, or at least enough to elect a president, are class A illogical idiots who have certainly accumulated enough wealth to buy who the hell they want.

Hillary wasn't elected, kwini...

[kwinigolfer]

H had the majority, can't blame her (except for losing the electoral college . . . . . and that's another thing!).

[navyblueshorts]

The Americans have the best politicians money can buy.

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