Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Director of Rugby Les Kiss  
Head Coach Jono Gibbes  
Assistant Coach Dwayne Peel
Scrum Coach Aaron Dundon  
Skills Coach Niall Malone


Players In
John Cooney from Connacht
Schalk van der Merwe from Southern Kings
Jean Deysel from Sharks
David Busby promoted from Academy
Aaron Cairns promoted from Academy
Ross Kane promoted from Academy
Rob Lyttle promoted from Academy
Tommy O'Hagan promoted from Academy
Jack Owens promoted from Academy

Players Out
Franco van der Merwe to Cardiff Blues
Roger Wilson retired
Conor Joyce to Jersey Reds
Mark Best to Jersey Reds
Jonny Murphy to Rotherham Titans
Ruan Pienaar to Montpellier
John Donnan released
Lorcan Dow released
Ricky Lutton released
Stephen Mulholland released

Ulster Rugby 2017/18 Senior Playing Squad

Rodney Ah You (18 ULS, 3 IRE)
John Andrew (27 ULS)
Rory Best (198 ULS, 104 IRE)
Callum Black (128 ULS)
Tommy Bowe (150 ULS, 69 IRE)
Peter Browne (31 ULS)
David Busby (2 ULS)
Aaron Cairns (1 ULS)
Darren Cave (193 ULS, 11 IRE)
Marcell Coetzee (4 ULS, 28 SA)
John Cooney (0 ULS, 1 IRE)
Jean Deysel (0 ULS, 4 SA)
Robbie Diack (193 ULS, 2 IRE)
Craig Gilroy (149 ULS, 10 IRE)
Iain Henderson (74 ULS, 32 IRE)
Chris Henry (165 ULS, 24 IRE)
Wiehahn Herbst (54 ULS)
Rob Herring (120 ULS, 1 IRE)
Brett Herron (7 ULS)
Paddy Jackson (123 ULS, 25 IRE)
Ross Kane (11 ULS)
Louis Ludik (54 ULS)
Robert Lyttle (8 ULS)
Luke Marshall (104 ULS, 11 IRE)
Paul Marshall (195 ULS, 3 IRE)
Kyle McCall (36 ULS)
Stuart McCloskey (58 ULS, 1 IRE)
Johnny McPhillips
Peter Nelson (37 ULS)
Alan O'Connor (39 ULS)
Tommy O'Hagan
Stuart Olding (62 ULS, 4 IRE)
Jack Owens (1 ULS)
Callum Patterson
Jared Payne (78 ULS, 20 IRE)
Charles Piutau (23 ULS, 16 NZ)
Matthew Rea
Sean Reidy (58 ULS, 2 IRE)
Clive Ross (52 ULS)
David Shanahan (13 ULS)
Jonny Simpson (4 ULS)
Jacob Stockdale (24 ULS, 2 IRE)
Kieran Treadwell (21 ULS, 2 IRE)
Andrew Trimble (217 ULS, 70 IRE)
Schalk van der Merwe
Andrew Warwick (74 ULS)

If what I have heard is true, the issues Clive raises are not directly relevant. Intoxication is not the issue.

If.

flip. Sounds much worse then...

Don't know, wasn't there. Best leave it there.

I think it's going to be brutal. Ulster really didn't think this was going to trial. At least not for both of them.

I think it shows that we need to film all our sexual encounters just to be safe, so we have video evidence documenting consent....

Or, more simply, bring back the moral stigma surrounding promiscuous sex. Yes, you can do what you want etc etc, but that doesn't make it right. There's a reason why this crap, unwanted pregnancies and sexual diseases are ever rising.

Goodness Rory, I was holding back on my 'old fashioned' opinions for fear I'd be ridiculed. Fair play. I totally agree.
What's wrong with a steady relationship. I'm sure these guys could find meaningful relationships. And... at the very least... could we not just find one girl each rather than sharing. The whole thing leaves me rather unimpressed with these two young guys regardless of the guilt or innocence.

I'm glad Ian Henderson found himself a woman who could give him some direction and sense. He got married last month by the way. I know the photographers who did their wedding.

clivemcl wrote:Goodness Rory, I was holding back on my 'old fashioned' opinions for fear I'd be ridiculed. Fair play. I totally agree.
What's wrong with a steady relationship. I'm sure these guys could find meaningful relationships. And... at the very least... could we not just find one girl each rather than sharing. The whole thing leaves me rather unimpressed with these two young guys regardless of the guilt or innocence.

I'm glad Ian Henderson found himself a woman who could give him some direction and sense. He got married last month by the way. I know the photographers who did their wedding.

Who cares if it is ridiculed. It is what I think and I think those with "progressive" opinions about such things have a lot more to answer for than my "dinosaur" opinions.

Agree, whatever the result of the trial, I hope this is a lesson to men and women of all ages about not putting themselves in these situations.

Nice to see judgements being made about people and lifestyles with a lack of facts

There are no judgements being made about their guilt of the charges, only of the situation in which they were in. I guess you could argue that there may have been zero sexual interaction and that the 'victim' is entirely making it up. If that is the case I hope she is found out and gets a significant punishment herself. But, if they were in a situation where they were sharing a sexual partner, and if McIlroy did expose himself etc, then yea, I don't think much of that, or people who live like that.
I don't expect anyone to care of my opinion though. But I do think my feelings willbe shared by a substantial number. Regardless of guilt, i don't think too many parents will be clambering to get Jackson's autograph for their kids. UR will be very aware of this I'm sure.

marty2086 wrote:Nice to see judgements being made about people and lifestyles with a lack of facts

Oh for goodness sake, grow up. I wasn't addressing anyone personally, just the topic at hand (r@pe accusations and how to avoid them). I will not hide my belief that promiscuity should be discouraged and stigmatised for a number of reasons (and with plenty of facts to back it up). If you wish to call me judgemental for that, knock yourself out. I couldn't care less.

My son is young yet, so don't have to worry too much. But let's take a minute to consider, there are young UR fans asking their parents or talking to their friends about why Jackson and Olding won't be playing. Sure you can tell them, we don't know the truth yet.
"So there were two girls Dad?"
"No son, same one"
etc etc...

Even if you explain to them about consent and the potential for their innocence they are still going to be left with the knowledge that two rugby 'heroes' were in that situation?

I wouldn't be expecting Jackson/Olding to be doing much PR or meet and greets for a while. Unless, like I said, they can prove the whole encounter was fabricated and didn't occur.

I can't pass judgement on something that I've been very guilty of in the past. I however was never a household name or a sporting celebrity. The guys should have known better and it begs the question as to how clear Ulster Rugby's policies are with regards to players' behaviour and how firmly they enforce it.

Pete330v2 wrote:I can't pass judgement on something that I've been very guilty of in the past. I however was never a household name or a sporting celebrity. The guys should have known better and it begs the question as to how clear Ulster Rugby's policies are with regards to players' behaviour and how firmly they enforce it.

Say's who? I regret plenty of wrongful things I did (or still do) in my life and would advise others not to do the same. I was very selfish and foolish when I did those things and would say the same if anyone else did it.

Anyway, you can tell it is the off season. Sectarianism and sex, whatever next.

Sorry, appear to have stumbled upon the DUP forum...

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Or, more simply, bring back the moral stigma surrounding promiscuous sex. Yes, you can do what you want etc etc, but that doesn't make it right. There's a reason why this crap, unwanted pregnancies and sexual diseases are ever rising.

I agree 100% Rory.

Not fashionable to say these days but true nonetheless.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Nice to see judgements being made about people and lifestyles with a lack of facts

Oh for goodness sake, grow up. I wasn't addressing anyone personally, just the topic at hand (r@pe accusations and how to avoid them). I will not hide my belief that promiscuity should be discouraged and stigmatised for a number of reasons (and with plenty of facts to back it up). If you wish to call me judgemental for that, knock yourself out. I couldn't care less.

Couldnt care less yet...

marty2086 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Nice to see judgements being made about people and lifestyles with a lack of facts

Oh for goodness sake, grow up. I wasn't addressing anyone personally, just the topic at hand (r@pe accusations and how to avoid them). I will not hide my belief that promiscuity should be discouraged and stigmatised for a number of reasons (and with plenty of facts to back it up). If you wish to call me judgemental for that, knock yourself out. I couldn't care less.

Couldnt care less yet...

I don't think you read the post properly. Try again, and you will see why I took issue with the falsities of your post. I clarified what I was saying, and that if you are calling me judgemental for that, I don't care. If you falsely accuse me of directing my comments personally at anyone, or if you claim I have a "lack of facts" for my opinion on this particular topic, then I will care. Clear now? I hope so.

Also, there are other emoticons than the "eye roll" one. Are you always so sarcastic? It gets tedious.

munkian wrote:Sorry, appear to have stumbled upon the DUP forum...

Of course, anyone who believes promiscuity should be discouraged must be a DUP voter. This did make me laugh a bit, though.

Rugby anyone?

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Nice to see judgements being made about people and lifestyles with a lack of facts

Oh for goodness sake, grow up. I wasn't addressing anyone personally, just the topic at hand (r@pe accusations and how to avoid them). I will not hide my belief that promiscuity should be discouraged and stigmatised for a number of reasons (and with plenty of facts to back it up). If you wish to call me judgemental for that, knock yourself out. I couldn't care less.

Couldnt care less yet...

I don't think you read the post properly. Try again, and you will see why I took issue with the falsities of your post. I clarified what I was saying, and that if you are calling me judgemental for that, I don't care. If you falsely accuse me of directing my comments personally at anyone, or if you claim I have a "lack of facts" for my opinion on this particular topic, then I will care. Clear now? I hope so.

Also, there are other emoticons than the "eye roll" one. Are you always so sarcastic? It gets tedious.

No falsities you were making judgements I never said it was about the individuals but it was about people and the eye roll was warranted giving the sanctimony involved you don't like it well suck it up buttercup. You don't know the facts of the case yet used it as a platform

Maybe the best course of action is to have all talk of the case barred from the pages outside of the rugby aspects

Pete330v2 wrote:Rugby anyone?

Seconded. I see Hendo was representing Ulster at the launch of the Pro14.

Also, there was an interview with Joe Marker saying that the Lions Test side was pretty much inked in from the start and you could only okay yourself off it, not really into it.

"Yet Marler says it was apparent early on who the coaches were favouring in certain positions. In his own case, Mako Vunipola, who acted as his understudy during the Six Nations for England, and Ireland’s Jack McGrath established themselves ahead of the 28-year-old in the pecking order.

“We knew pretty early doors what the crack was,” Marler said. “We knew it would be very hard to play your way into that Test team – you were kind of relying on someone playing their way out of it and hoping you were in a position to go right ‘needed for that spot’.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/08/19/joe-marler-did-learn-lion-drink1/

Also says Rory taught him to drink.

Sounds like Bowe will be used as utility cover this season, and Jared seems to be on the mend.

http://www.the42.ie/tommy-bowe-ulster-les-kiss-3560645-Aug2017/?utm_source=twitter_self

Beat me to that one Don, also saw comments from Kiss about Tommy spending some time doing analysis when he was out and learning a few things from it and adding to his game.

marty2086 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Nice to see judgements being made about people and lifestyles with a lack of facts

Oh for goodness sake, grow up. I wasn't addressing anyone personally, just the topic at hand (r@pe accusations and how to avoid them). I will not hide my belief that promiscuity should be discouraged and stigmatised for a number of reasons (and with plenty of facts to back it up). If you wish to call me judgemental for that, knock yourself out. I couldn't care less.

Couldnt care less yet...

I don't think you read the post properly. Try again, and you will see why I took issue with the falsities of your post. I clarified what I was saying, and that if you are calling me judgemental for that, I don't care. If you falsely accuse me of directing my comments personally at anyone, or if you claim I have a "lack of facts" for my opinion on this particular topic, then I will care. Clear now? I hope so.

Also, there are other emoticons than the "eye roll" one. Are you always so sarcastic? It gets tedious.

No falsities you were making judgements I never said it was about the individuals but it was about people and the eye roll was warranted giving the sanctimony involved you don't like it well suck it up buttercup. You don't know the facts of the case yet used it as a platform

Maybe the best course of action is to have all talk of the case barred from the pages outside of the rugby aspects

I wasn't talking about the case, you twit. Look at the comment I responded to in the first place. It was about avoiding these sorts of scenarios, I wasn't talking about this case specifically. I have no idea what the facts are about the case.

Either read properly or don't respond. Last thing I will say on the matter.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Nice to see judgements being made about people and lifestyles with a lack of facts

Oh for goodness sake, grow up. I wasn't addressing anyone personally, just the topic at hand (r@pe accusations and how to avoid them). I will not hide my belief that promiscuity should be discouraged and stigmatised for a number of reasons (and with plenty of facts to back it up). If you wish to call me judgemental for that, knock yourself out. I couldn't care less.

Couldnt care less yet...

I don't think you read the post properly. Try again, and you will see why I took issue with the falsities of your post. I clarified what I was saying, and that if you are calling me judgemental for that, I don't care. If you falsely accuse me of directing my comments personally at anyone, or if you claim I have a "lack of facts" for my opinion on this particular topic, then I will care. Clear now? I hope so.

Also, there are other emoticons than the "eye roll" one. Are you always so sarcastic? It gets tedious.

No falsities you were making judgements I never said it was about the individuals but it was about people and the eye roll was warranted giving the sanctimony involved you don't like it well suck it up buttercup. You don't know the facts of the case yet used it as a platform

Maybe the best course of action is to have all talk of the case barred from the pages outside of the rugby aspects

I wasn't talking about the case, you twit. Look at the comment I responded to in the first place. It was about avoiding these sorts of scenarios, I wasn't talking about this case specifically. I have no idea what the facts are about the case.

Either read properly or don't respond. Last thing I will say on the matter.

Still making sanctimonious assumptions about people you pompous ass

Maybe keep your judgements to yourself

How ironic. Sigh, I tried.

Anyway, on the rugby, if things do go pear-shaped, is it possible to sign players on a short-term loan in the second half of the season? When did Jean Deysel sign for Munster? And that was only because of injuries, correct?

The Japanese 'Top League' will have just ended and will perhaps provide another short term contract. Deysel was signed mid season wasn't he? We should be allowed to do the same surely?
Speaking of Deysel, he's the player I am the most excited to see in action. I think he's one player that's set to become a fan favourite even if he does bring a few yellow cards. Cooney is another I'm excited to see and his partnership with Leali'ifano may bring a real spark especially if our pack shows some level of improvement. If that could happen we should see the likes of McCloskey, Stockdale, Gilroy hit their true form that we all know well that bar Stockdale is a level or 2 above last season.

See everyone, positive thoughts and optimism

Pete330v2 wrote:The Japanese 'Top League' will have just ended and will perhaps provide another short term contract. Deysel was signed mid season wasn't he? We should be allowed to do the same surely?
Speaking of Deysel, he's the player I am the most excited to see in action. I think he's one player that's set to become a fan favourite even if he does bring a few yellow cards. Cooney is another I'm excited to see and his partnership with Leali'ifano may bring a real spark especially if our pack shows some level of improvement. If that could happen we should see the likes of McCloskey, Stockdale, Gilroy hit their true form that we all know well that bar Stockdale is a level or 2 above last season.

See everyone, positive thoughts and optimism

It depends on whether or not he was signed as injury cover. This is a very different scenario. I'm also wondering if Deysel only came to Munster for half a season because he was already being offered a contract next season with Ulster. Lealiifano's choice to come short term is understandable, but I can't see many other players showing an interest in January. Then again, money talks.

All this lack of rugby is making people go stir crazy.  Roll on the 1st September when we can start arguing with Ulster management rather than each other.

On the injury bit I think they'll reassess come November/December. Lealiifano might love it here and decide to stay on till the end of the season. Alternatively he might hate it here and be desperate to go back. We've bought (yes, bought) ourselves some time. Hopefully some of the lad culture which has permeated through parts of the squad in recent seasons will be/or already has been removed. Lealiifano, from everything I've been reading, is a true professional. Hopefully that'll rub off on some of them.

It feels like this has been true for last 7 years or so but looking at what we put out for Wasps, if we brought back some of our international A listers we'd again have a pretty tasty first XV with Gibbs coaching them ...... the problem is beyond that.

There will be no looking for a second short term contract. If things turn sour in the trial, the signing that may happen in januray will be a long term signing. Special dispensation extended, but at season's end, the NIQ numbers are restored by Piutau leaving. That's if we get somebody from Japanese league. We may have to make do until the following season. Regardless of how much any of the other 10s impress, I cant see our NIQ slot going to any other position if Jackson does ultimately get found guilty.

I'd much rather in turns out both fellas are innocent of course. Jackson was turning into one of our best homegrown players.

It was the first hearing this morning, one to assess the prosecution's case.

Could Ulster Rugby sink lower?

Cyril wrote:Could Ulster Rugby sink lower?

Yes. Clearly they could. Never understood these questions. A murderer could in fact sink lower simply by murdering again. Or by doing something tortuous prior to the murder. In terms of a sports club. You could have historical underage child sex abuse. You could discover there's a culture of drug taking. Your forwards coach could be banging the props missus. SO yes, obviously they could sink lower.
I would say that a yet to be proved allegation is actually a long way from the very lowest possible point...
That answer your question Cyril? Most people are capable of these simple rational thoughts themselves without having to go on internet forums to find the answer.

I expect us to actually rise higher than our current 2nd from bottom position as it's purely alphabetical.

What have Ulster done wrong ????

During the course of the trial the players in question will not be playing.
If they are convicted they will never play, for Ulster, again.
If they are found innocent they will come back and play.
Entirely the appropriate response from the province.

Whether they stay in Northern Ireland, after the trial, regardless is a different matter.
If innocent they may well decide a good idea to get away and make a fresh start.

In February if the trial is unresolved or they are found guilty we will be allowed another short term contract.
In the summer one of two things will happen either a Munster or Leinster player will come north or we will be allowed a NIQ 10.
We all know the former won't happen , it never does.
So it will be a NIQ (a slot having been freed by Piatau leaving) - still only 3+1.

Didn't someone just leave who we would have been happy to play 10 for a couple of years  
If he had stayed he would have retired after a couple years and the best of the youngsters would be his replacement.
Now we will be giving an experienced NIQ 10 a 2/3 contract in the summer of 2018 who he will block those youngsters.

So Pienaer going could result in not only 2 promising young 9's benefitting from his coaching but also the blocking of young 10's which would not have been the case if he had stayed.


What irony !!!

Pete330v2 wrote:I expect us to actually rise higher than our current 2nd from bottom position as it's purely alphabetical.

Theoretically though we could go bottom. Damn you Zebre!!!

geoff999rugby wrote:In February if the trial is unresolved or they are found guilty we will be allowed another short term contract.
In the summer one of two things will happen either a Munster or Leinster player will come north or we will be allowed a NIQ 10.
We all know the former won't happen , it never does.
So it will be a NIQ (a slot having been freed by Piatau leaving) - still only 3+1.

Didn't someone just leave who we would have been happy to play 10 for a couple of years  
If he had stayed he would have retired after a couple years and the best of the youngsters would be his replacement.
Now we will be giving an experienced NIQ 10 a 2/3 contract in the summer of 2018 who he will block those youngsters.

So Pienaer going could result in not only 2 promising young 9's benefitting from his coaching but also the blocking of young 10's which would not have been the case if he had stayed.


What irony !!!

Irony that will no doubt be lost on Nucifora as he only has eyes for Munster. Munstifora?

http://www.the42.ie/iain-henderson-drikning-ulster-lions-enjoy-gibbes-3561277-Aug2017/

Feeling the first tentative stirrings of positivity that are necessary in order to later experience crushing disappointment.

One man who has changed more than anybody is Henderson he is like a new player.

Whatever marriage, the Lions and Gibbes have down to him has done him a power of good.

geoff999rugby wrote:One man who has changed more than anybody is Henderson he is like a new player.

Whatever marriage, the Lions and Gibbes have down to him has done him a power of good.

I'm liking the sound of that, let's hope he can stay injury free now....

For some reason I have the feeling that Gibbes is going to foster healthy competition for places in Ulster for the first time in a long time.
Les seemed to prefer squad rotation where the players didn't seem to have to perform well to get selected, and in my opinion too many Ulster players have been happy with mediocrity in the past.
Hopefully he will instill some hunger in the younger players to force themselves into contention rather than the traditional Ulster way of sticking with the known journeymen

https://www.facebook.com/ulsterrugby/videos/1496785840400510/

Christian Lealiifano interview. Seems a decent spud. Nothing massively insightful. Ulster were interested in him short OR long-term. Excited about working with Peel. Seems raring to go.

Ulster Rugby team to play Northampton Saints, Friday 25th August at Franklin's Gardens, kick-off 7.30pm:

(15-9): Charles Piutau, Louis Ludik, Tommy Bowe, Stuart McCloskey, David Busby, Peter Nelson, John Cooney;
(1-8): Callum Black, Rob Herring, Wiehahn Herbst, Robbie Diack, Alan O'Connor, Clive Ross, Chris Henry, Jean Deysel.

Replacements: Zack McCall, Kyle McCall, Rodney Ah You, Peter Browne, Marcell Coetzee, David Shanahan, Brett Herron, Andrew Trimble, Andy Warwick, Jonny Simpson, Matthew Rea, Nick Timoney, Caleb Montgomery, Paul Marshall, Jack Owens, Johnny McPhillips, Callum Patterson.


Thought Cooney would be out until until round two as a player who went to America and Japan.

Don Alfonso wrote:https://www.facebook.com/ulsterrugby/videos/1496785840400510/

Christian Lealiifano interview. Seems a decent spud. Nothing massively insightful. Ulster were interested in him short OR long-term. Excited about working with Peel. Seems raring to go.

It has to be said a lot of people have a lot of good things to say about peel.

Really liked him as a player.

Would like to have seen Cairns feature again. Weird wings - Ludik is more of a 15/13 and not convinced yet on Busby. Diack now firmly in the "second row" camp?

If he starts at 10 for us in the opening game against the Cheetahs it will be a huge draw all round.