Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Director of Rugby Les Kiss  
Head Coach Jono Gibbes  
Assistant Coach Dwayne Peel
Scrum Coach Aaron Dundon  
Skills Coach Niall Malone


Players In
John Cooney from Connacht
Schalk van der Merwe from Southern Kings
Jean Deysel from Sharks
David Busby promoted from Academy
Aaron Cairns promoted from Academy
Ross Kane promoted from Academy
Rob Lyttle promoted from Academy
Tommy O'Hagan promoted from Academy
Jack Owens promoted from Academy

Players Out
Franco van der Merwe to Cardiff Blues
Roger Wilson retired
Conor Joyce to Jersey Reds
Mark Best to Jersey Reds
Jonny Murphy to Rotherham Titans
Ruan Pienaar to Montpellier
John Donnan released
Lorcan Dow released
Ricky Lutton released
Stephen Mulholland released

Ulster Rugby 2017/18 Senior Playing Squad

Rodney Ah You (18 ULS, 3 IRE)
John Andrew (27 ULS)
Rory Best (198 ULS, 104 IRE)
Callum Black (128 ULS)
Tommy Bowe (150 ULS, 69 IRE)
Peter Browne (31 ULS)
David Busby (2 ULS)
Aaron Cairns (1 ULS)
Darren Cave (193 ULS, 11 IRE)
Marcell Coetzee (4 ULS, 28 SA)
John Cooney (0 ULS, 1 IRE)
Jean Deysel (0 ULS, 4 SA)
Robbie Diack (193 ULS, 2 IRE)
Craig Gilroy (149 ULS, 10 IRE)
Iain Henderson (74 ULS, 32 IRE)
Chris Henry (165 ULS, 24 IRE)
Wiehahn Herbst (54 ULS)
Rob Herring (120 ULS, 1 IRE)
Brett Herron (7 ULS)
Paddy Jackson (123 ULS, 25 IRE)
Ross Kane (11 ULS)
Louis Ludik (54 ULS)
Robert Lyttle (8 ULS)
Luke Marshall (104 ULS, 11 IRE)
Paul Marshall (195 ULS, 3 IRE)
Kyle McCall (36 ULS)
Stuart McCloskey (58 ULS, 1 IRE)
Johnny McPhillips
Peter Nelson (37 ULS)
Alan O'Connor (39 ULS)
Tommy O'Hagan
Stuart Olding (62 ULS, 4 IRE)
Jack Owens (1 ULS)
Callum Patterson
Jared Payne (78 ULS, 20 IRE)
Charles Piutau (23 ULS, 16 NZ)
Matthew Rea
Sean Reidy (58 ULS, 2 IRE)
Clive Ross (52 ULS)
David Shanahan (13 ULS)
Jonny Simpson (4 ULS)
Jacob Stockdale (24 ULS, 2 IRE)
Kieran Treadwell (21 ULS, 2 IRE)
Andrew Trimble (217 ULS, 70 IRE)
Schalk van der Merwe
Andrew Warwick (74 ULS)

Yep from what it says on here Coetzee and Piatau are out, Best and Henderson to come back at the end of the month, possibly against Dragons then Zebre.

Unless I am reading that wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41239422

LordDowlais wrote:Yep from what it says on here Coetzee and Piatau are out, Best and Henderson to come back at the end of the month, possibly against Dragons then Zebre.

Unless I am reading that wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41239422

They are definitely out. I'm sure Best and Hendo are dying to get gametime but the IRFU says no, keep resting lads. Ridiculous policy!

Pete330v2 wrote:
They are definitely out. I'm sure Best and Hendo are dying to get gametime but the IRFU says no, keep resting lads. Ridiculous policy!

It would make more sense if they said you get them for 100 mins or whatever over the next 3 weeks, you decide how to use them

marty2086 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:
They are definitely out. I'm sure Best and Hendo are dying to get gametime but the IRFU says no, keep resting lads. Ridiculous policy!

It would make more sense if they said you get them for 100 mins or whatever over the next 3 weeks, you decide how to use them

Exactly, especially when we're playing the reigning champions and are already short a couple of impact players. I mean protect the players but not if it means severely handicapping the province.

With the greatest respect to Dragons, they'd be much more use against the Scarlets. In this week's match, they could potentially make the difference between 0 or 1 point and 4.

I watched Saracens and Bath last week - brilliant game - Faletau, Farrell, Vunipola, Itoje all playing no wonder the standard seems higher in the early part of the season. Not that I think the players should be flogged like they are in France but I think the Unions need to look twice at what they are doing in this respect if they want to grow the leagues from which they draw their players, they can't keep handicapping certain sides and short changing the fans like they are at the moment.

marty2086 wrote:

Watched last night, great tribute. I think this guy would have been a great, great player, I always rated him back then, what a tragedy this was.

A lot of the current crop seem to be missing the passion, humility, attitude and commitment that seemed more abundant in the club back then and typified by non more so than Spence.

Couldn't agree more rodders, even before the tragedy he was being touted as an international

One of the things I got watching it was, he may have grounded a few around him in the current squad.

Was nice to see Paddy McAllisters tribute to him

Even McLaughlin’s attempts to turn him into a crash-ball centre didn’t stop him showing his skill.

Extraordinarily strong as well. I remember seeing a picture someone posted online with Spence standing ,smiling, with Paddy McAllister on his shoulders. Yet he wasn’t a big lad, - he was deceptive. Opposition players may expect to be barrelled out of the way by a Stuart McCloskey, but there were a fair few looks of disbelief on faces when Spence would put them on their behinds with a hand-off, or – as happened quite often - simply drive his way through players to the line.

The backline players who can do that these days are McCloskey and Stockdale – I remember him last season, marching determinedly to the whitewash with about three Dragons(?) players hanging off him.

marty2086 wrote:

Beautiful tribute, thanks for sharing marty. He was some player and definitely on the road to being an Ulster and Ireland legend.

Ulster Rugby team to play Scarlets, Friday 15th September, Kingspan Stadium (7.35pm):
(1-8): Kyle McCall, Rob Herring, Wiehahn Herbst, Kieran Treadwell, Alan O'Connor, Chris Henry (captain), Sean Reidy, Jean Deysel;
(9-15): John Cooney, Christian Lealiifano, Jacob Stockdale, Stuart McCloskey, Luke Marshall, Andrew Trimble, Louis Ludik.
Replacements (16-23): John Andrew, Andrew Warwick, Rodney Ah You, Robbie Diack, Matthew Rea, Paul Marshall, Peter Nelson, Tommy Bowe.

Scarlets

15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 Johnny Mcnicholl, 13 Hadleigh Parkes, 12 Scott Williams, 11 Steff Evans, 10 Rhys Patchell, 9 Gareth Davies, 1 Rob Evans, 2 Ken Owens ©, 3 Samson Lee, 4 Jake Ball, 5 Tadhg Beirne, 6 Aaron Shingler, 7 Will Boyde, 8 John Barclay

Replacements; Ryan Elias, Wyn Jones, Werner Kruger, David Bulbring, Josh Macleod, Jonathan Evans, Rhys Jones, Jonathan Davies

Would expect to lose this one. If we could play our Lions, might be a different story. But as it is... nah. Glad Diack's not starting, though.

Don Alfonso wrote:Ulster Rugby team to play Scarlets, Friday 15th September, Kingspan Stadium (7.35pm):
(1-8): Kyle McCall, Rob Herring, Wiehahn Herbst, Kieran Treadwell, Alan O'Connor, Chris Henry (captain), Sean Reidy, Jean Deysel;
(9-15): John Cooney, Christian Lealiifano, Jacob Stockdale, Stuart McCloskey, Luke Marshall, Andrew Trimble, Louis Ludik.
Replacements (16-23): John Andrew, Andrew Warwick, Rodney Ah You, Robbie Diack, Matthew Rea, Paul Marshall, Peter Nelson, Tommy Bowe.

Happy with that, the right boys with the right numbers on their backs.
Great to see Luke Marshall at 13 and great to see Paul making his return.
Where is Cave?
Is he crocked?
I expected him to at least be on the Bench but I suppose Tommy covers more positions. I just hope we don't need him to replace Luke but the IRFU may have their demands.

Actually, scrub that about the numbers on their backs, on a second look the backrow is all wrong. Instead of 6. Henry 7. Reidy 8. Deysel, should it not read 6.Deysel 7.Henry 8.Reidy ?

2nd row looks stronger. I'd probably regig the backrow too.

It's a tough one. I can see us pull out a performance, especially as it's at home. Equally I can see us not show up and get beat.

Worry isn't just losing Coetzee's carrying, but also his leadership and talismatic effect. In Italy we really did look rudderless and by the time Henry came on to steady that, the entire team was going backwards at a rate of knots. With Coetzee you get the sense when tells people to pull their finger out that they then make an effort, if only so they don't look bad in comparison. Leadership isn't necessarily the word but some players are like that. They really drive others around them to go further. Parisse of course was the King of that for Italy.

Good to see Paul Marshall back. Not because I actually want him to play but it did say he on extended leave due to family illness. Hopefully there's a positive outcome there.

Pete330v2 wrote:
Actually, scrub that about the numbers on their backs, on a second look the backrow is all wrong. Instead of 6. Henry 7. Reidy 8. Deysel, should it not read 6.Deysel 7.Henry 8.Reidy ?

Do the numbers really matter? Look at Itoje and Lawes for England, if they play to their strengths then that's a good backrow

Marty, I'd argue it can do. I'd have it 6. Deysel, 7. Henry and 8. Reidy.

That puts our best 6 at 6, are best 7 at 7 and our 3rd/4th best 8 at 8. Tough on Reidy but provides balance and purpose.

To start chopping and changing might work if the Ulster backrow are a well oiled machine where everyone fills in, and they cover each other ........ but in reality I don't see that happening, certainly not this early in the season.

My worry is Henry at 6 will be thinking he needs to be a 6, which means carrying hard and expending a lot of energy, rather than sticking to his strength which is jackling and securing quick ruck ball.

If we go with it as is we've got our 3rd best 6 at 6, our 2nd best 7 at 7 and our .... 3rd best 8 and 8? Ok I'm randomly making this up now, but my point is I'd rather people stick to the jobs they're good at and have 1 odd man out (and Reidy's not bad as an 8) then have everyone doing a role which isn't quite suited to them and all of them have a mediocre game. Yes I know that shouldn't happen and they should work as a unit, but I can see it not working as demonstrated with the Treviso game where Deysel wasn't effective at all from 8.

I don't need to answer you now Marty, Redman put it better than I could have. The players must be in their best positions. Henry is not a 6, Deysel could play anywhere and Reidy is no 7. The Scarlets backrow could have a bit of a field day.

Jean deysel is ruled out with an eye injury. Rea in to start and Clive ross on to the bench.

Well, that's that. Without our four best forwards.

Hope Mattie Rea benefits from the experience, and glad he's ahead of Ross.

Well who knows, maybe this is the kind of match we end up winning somehow. I hope Rea benefits from it, good to see them giving youngsters a chance rather than the same old guys

marty2086 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:
They are definitely out. I'm sure Best and Hendo are dying to get gametime but the IRFU says no, keep resting lads. Ridiculous policy!

It would make more sense if they said you get them for 100 mins or whatever over the next 3 weeks, you decide how to use them

The provincial coaches do have a say when players are selected within the confines of the player's overall playing minutes. This issue came up before with Matt O'Connor complaining about not being allowed and Schmidt and Nucifora responded publicly to his statements.

http://www.the42.ie/joe-schmidt-david-nucifora-player-management-irfu-2065855-Apr2015/

I know it's a media response but what they were saying concurs with comments from a parent of the one of the Leinster players I met a couple of weeks ago who was very familiar with the playing time protocols and how game time was allotted.

I thin there's going to be a minute's silence for Nevin? Might spur the boys on to put their bodies on the line.

Redman wrote:Marty, I'd argue it can do.  I'd have it 6. Deysel, 7. Henry and 8. Reidy.   

Sorry but those numbers if the players don't do their jobs. Like I said look at Itoje and Lawes for England, Lawes wears 4 but packed down at
6 and Itoje with 6 on his back packed down in the second row.

As long as players are sent out to play to their strengths and do just that then the numbers become irrelevant.

With Deysal out though I worry about us going up against a very good Scarlets back row

With Deysel out we may as well forget this one. Even if we do get the ball we'll be going backwards at a rate of knots. We've lost any of the players that can actually change a game in Coetzee, Deysel and Piutau. It may sound defeatist but it's realistic. A losing bonus point would be an acceptable result to be honest.

The only redeeming factor is that as Don pointed out, the thought of Nevin may spur the boys on to playing out of their skins.

Jez you lot are miserable bunch

Show a little optimism

marty2086 wrote:Jez you lot are miserable bunch

Show a little optimism

I tried once Marty and I'll try again but this weekend it's beyond me.
Please let me be proven wrong.

Optimism for the sake of optimism is as stupid as pessimism for the sake of pessimism. Realistically, we are playing against the best team in the Pro14 without any adequate ball carriers in the pack. It is unlikely that we will win, so I will be pleased if we come away with a losing bonus point.

One day we are crying for young guys to get their chance, next day its doom and gloom if we are forced to play a youngster!
OK, I know it's different opposition from last week. But nobody was bemoaning Rea's selection when we failed to pick up our bonus point.

All we need is for Reidy to play out of his skin as if fighting for the starting shirt, and for Rea to become the next big thing younster...
Or do Ulster play their young guys expecting them to be poor?

Never say never is my view.

The right game plan can negate the lack of ball carriers, I thought we should have kicked bit more last week. Playing a bit more territory tonight mightn't be a bad idea though giving Scarlets the ball can be dangerous

It'd be the only thing to do. Trucking it up to the Scarlets defenders is one certain way of having an awful night. Play the territory, keep them in reverse gear as much as possible and frustrate the hell out of them. Last year I'd have expected the trucking it up tactic despite everything else. Hopefully this year there'll be a little more thought going into the game plans.

Hopefully Lealiifano is a bit more up to speed than he was in the first two games and has a bit more confidence in himself to do it, if that is the plan. I fear we'll try to run the ball though

Rory Best out for 6 weeks. I take it the injury occurred in training.

Well that first half belonged to John Cooney.

Good game this. Ulster dominating but they need those passes to start sticking.

Scarlets trying a bit too hard with the offloading rugby I think. It's marvellous to watch when it works but the accuracy is a little off at the moment so they might need to go through the phases a bit more.

Lealifano was taken late there with no arm wrap. In general his passing has been a bit wild. Not helped by Scarlets line speed, but still he's playing players dangerously flat. That said, we are often inches away from clean line breaks. Just need it to click.

His kicking from hand has significantly improved though.

Looking forward to seeing Stockdale at full back. Also... Cooney... will there have to be some humble pie ate at some point by ourselves on here?

If you don't take your chances, what do you expect. Especially against a team like the Scarlets.

Buck in' rite!!!!

Ah, I knew they read these forums.

Gusher talking Eddie

Why did Andrew take the quick line-out? Why?

Did Paul Marshal seriously consider the tap and go there??? I mean seriously. Tell me it was a wee joke with his team mates. We had two players down injured!

I'm behind the sofa right now.

Screamed the fricking house down there!!!!

Diack is a disgrace in contact. Especially carrying.

And we've just gone and won it. Well done lads.

Wonderful presence of mind by L Marshall. Great offload from McCloskey.