Ulster Rugby 2017-18

First topic message reminder :

Director of Rugby Les Kiss  
Head Coach Jono Gibbes  
Assistant Coach Dwayne Peel
Scrum Coach Aaron Dundon  
Skills Coach Niall Malone


Players In
John Cooney from Connacht
Schalk van der Merwe from Southern Kings
Jean Deysel from Sharks
David Busby promoted from Academy
Aaron Cairns promoted from Academy
Ross Kane promoted from Academy
Rob Lyttle promoted from Academy
Tommy O'Hagan promoted from Academy
Jack Owens promoted from Academy

Players Out
Franco van der Merwe to Cardiff Blues
Roger Wilson retired
Conor Joyce to Jersey Reds
Mark Best to Jersey Reds
Jonny Murphy to Rotherham Titans
Ruan Pienaar to Montpellier
John Donnan released
Lorcan Dow released
Ricky Lutton released
Stephen Mulholland released

Ulster Rugby 2017/18 Senior Playing Squad

Rodney Ah You (18 ULS, 3 IRE)
John Andrew (27 ULS)
Rory Best (198 ULS, 104 IRE)
Callum Black (128 ULS)
Tommy Bowe (150 ULS, 69 IRE)
Peter Browne (31 ULS)
David Busby (2 ULS)
Aaron Cairns (1 ULS)
Darren Cave (193 ULS, 11 IRE)
Marcell Coetzee (4 ULS, 28 SA)
John Cooney (0 ULS, 1 IRE)
Jean Deysel (0 ULS, 4 SA)
Robbie Diack (193 ULS, 2 IRE)
Craig Gilroy (149 ULS, 10 IRE)
Iain Henderson (74 ULS, 32 IRE)
Chris Henry (165 ULS, 24 IRE)
Wiehahn Herbst (54 ULS)
Rob Herring (120 ULS, 1 IRE)
Brett Herron (7 ULS)
Paddy Jackson (123 ULS, 25 IRE)
Ross Kane (11 ULS)
Louis Ludik (54 ULS)
Robert Lyttle (8 ULS)
Luke Marshall (104 ULS, 11 IRE)
Paul Marshall (195 ULS, 3 IRE)
Kyle McCall (36 ULS)
Stuart McCloskey (58 ULS, 1 IRE)
Johnny McPhillips
Peter Nelson (37 ULS)
Alan O'Connor (39 ULS)
Tommy O'Hagan
Stuart Olding (62 ULS, 4 IRE)
Jack Owens (1 ULS)
Callum Patterson
Jared Payne (78 ULS, 20 IRE)
Charles Piutau (23 ULS, 16 NZ)
Matthew Rea
Sean Reidy (58 ULS, 2 IRE)
Clive Ross (52 ULS)
David Shanahan (13 ULS)
Jonny Simpson (4 ULS)
Jacob Stockdale (24 ULS, 2 IRE)
Kieran Treadwell (21 ULS, 2 IRE)
Andrew Trimble (217 ULS, 70 IRE)
Schalk van der Merwe
Andrew Warwick (74 ULS)

clivemcl wrote:Every year I'll catch a Leinster game. I'll see a few names that I know are fringe players or youngsters. I'll even see names I've never heard of previously. Then I'll sit back and watch these players do brilliant things and show very little inexperience/poor skill/lack of confidence.

Do you think Leinster fans would watch the likes of Rea and Shanahan and see similar? I guess we will see tomorrow!

Interesting. You must have missed the end of last season when the likes of Carberry had a stinker for them against us and they played quite a few of their youngsters and lost three in succession, including becoming the first team to lose a home semifinal.

Sounds like you should watch Leinster instead of Ulster.

Are you actually moaning about Rea being given a go against Treviso? You are. Jaysis.

I'm not. And don't know where you got that.
I'm praising Leinsters depth. Leinster did ok with Byrne last night they also have Sexton, Carberry and Marsh in senior squad. And this a sidewho let Madigan go and also had Gopperth not so long ago.
Their depth of squad and ability to play players who seem to hit the ground running is to be praised.
I hope to see Rea do that this evening. But more often than not our youngsters flounder and we excuse their inexperience and youth.

Don Alfonso wrote:

clivemcl wrote:Every year I'll catch a Leinster game. I'll see a few names that I know are fringe players or youngsters. I'll even see names I've never heard of previously. Then I'll sit back and watch these players do brilliant things and show very little inexperience/poor skill/lack of confidence.

Do you think Leinster fans would watch the likes of Rea and Shanahan and see similar? I guess we will see tomorrow!

Interesting. You must have missed the end of last season when the likes of Carberry had a stinker for them against us and they played quite a few of their youngsters and lost three in succession, including becoming the first team to lose a home semifinal.

Sounds like you should watch Leinster instead of Ulster.

Are you actually moaning about Rea being given a go against Treviso? You are. Jaysis.

You're very sensitive regarding this topic. Are you okay? All Clive said was that he gets excited watching some of the youngsters at Leinster, as he is also an Ireland fan. I am the same. The reality is, I get more excited watching some of the youngsters for Leinster or Munster because they get more game time and I get to see more of them. For the most part, that Leinster "youth" team outplayed most teams, until the last quarter of the season or so.

On the other hand, Stockdale and Treadwell are the Ulster players that excite me and that I believe should (and do, particularly Stockdale) excite fans from other provinces. I hope to see more talent emerge from Ulster over the next few seasons, but we are behind. You don't like people pointing that out, but that's just tough. In my opinion, and in the opinion of others, we are behind the other provinces in terms of bringing through talent across the board. It looks like we might, and I emphasise might, be changing that. Seeing Rea on that team sheet really made me smile.

I just think it's tedious. I'd like to have separate thread where people can just post endlessly about about the wondrous ability of the other provinces to bring talent through whenever they can't think of anything else to say, and save this one for discussion Ulster selection, analysis etc. If I wasn't so monumentally lazy, I'd start it.

Don Alfonso wrote:I just think it's tedious. I'd like to have  separate thread where people can just post endlessly about about the wondrous ability of the other provinces to bring talent through whenever they can't think of anything else to say, and save this one for discussion Ulster selection, analysis etc. If I wasn't so monumentally lazy, I'd start it.

Fair enough, it probably is tedious and said too often, I just don't think it is a baseless comment to suggest Ulster are currently behind.

No, agreed, Ulster are behind.
But I do think it glosses over shortcomings the other provinces have as well. Who was the last decent hooker Leinster actually produced? Since BOD and Darcy, they've produced Ringrose. They have an aged NIQ playing 12 because they have nobody to step up. Because their first choice 12, from another province, is out injured.

The accuracy isn't there but I'm really enjoying what Ulster are trying to do here. Some wonderful invention in the backs.

Our kicking game is seriously worrying. Against a good team we could get punished.

Seeing too much of the passive/backing off defense which is often associated with Kiss as well. On a couple of occasions better teams than this would have gone through.

Passive defence, aimless kicking and predictable attack. Any half decent side would have Ulster stuffed by now.
Cooney looks so impressive though, it's a shame he's one of the few. Very frustrating to watch and if we miss out on a bonus point this early in the season we may get ready for a repeat of last season.

What Ah You brings doesn't make up for what he costs us. He's thrown himself at that boy there with no arms. He got lucky he missed him completely otherwise it's a yellow.

This is embarrassing.

Ok, I only managed to watch the last 20 (bloody work) but, from reading the comments, Ulster were poor today? From the little I did see, Treviso actually looked much better than I remember them. Is this a false perception? Their defence and counter attack looked pretty good to me.

I also heard that the awful use of the bench by Kiss struck again.

Lastly, Ah You actually looked like a hard hitting ball carrier, or is that an illusion?

I saw it like this....

Our pack without Coetzee and Henry was poor. Outstanding against the Cheetahs with those two players, rubbish without them. Second row is, as we know, a definite weakness. Front row no great shakes.

All in all, the pack is a serious concern when we don't have the first choice guys there. I would also add that in the two games I have seen Deysel without Coetzee beside him (Saints warm up and Treviso tonight) he is a million miles away from what he was like against the Cheetahs with Coetzee at No.8. Part of this may be that he just isn't a No.8, part of it also that he and Coetzee really compliment each other. Front row badly needs Best back, but we shouldn't be relying on a 35 year old hooker to make our front row strong. The less said about our second row right now the better.

Totally agree AD. Ulster have miniscule depth. Kisibbs are obviously trying to build some depth but that will take the whole season since it has been neglected for years. Ulster will be competitive while Coetzee is in the team, but otherwise their back row is miles behind the best in the league.

Ah You carried a couple of times in the tight but it was when we doubled and tripled up with support players pushing through. The team generally has used that as a tactic in two games I've seen this season to good effect. I'm guessing that's Gibbs bringing in something new.

The problem is for every moment he's done well he then and goes and does something stupid. He coughed up a knock on 10m from their line and then threw himself head first at one of their players around 74 minutes in. If he connects it's a certain yellow. I think he also gave away a penalty at the scrum late on ... but I'm not 100% on that as I spent most of the last 10 minutes with my head in my hands.

Generally the scrum barely held on, the lineout looked shakey for the most part but still hit 80% and we just couldn't get to grips with them at the breakdown at all. Really basic stuff. First up tackler and then they always had a man ready to disrupt. We didn't lose too many turnovers but we wasted a huge amount of time and energy securing the clear outs at basically every single ruck.

Scarlets up next I believe? They're carrying on from last year so they're good to watch right now, like Ulster can be good to watch, so I'm looking forward to this one. Zebre really tested them up front but they passed with flying colours. Will Deysel and Coetzee be playing? I would like to see Shingler tested against some good back-rowers, and if he continues to play well then he has to be starting at 6 for Wales this year.

Have we ever really had a strong performance in Italy? All too often we are sluggish when playing there even when we come away with 5 points

marty2086 wrote:Have we ever really had a strong performance in Italy? All too often we are sluggish when playing there even when we come away with 5 points

Italians don't make life easy down there. Scarlets had to work very hard for their 5 points last night. Pivac has got his forward pack very well drilled.

Copied from another forum - last season's points haul for teams against Treviso:

5 points: Munster, Leinster, Connacht, Glasgow

4 points: Ulster, Scarlets, Cardiff

0 points: Embra, Ospreys, Dragons, Zebre

We were woeful, but I think there's a clear attempt to move play on from last season. Anyone deciding that we have to deliver silverware in our first season under two new coaches needs their head read.

Ludik's worst game in an Ulster jersey.

Mattie Rea was fine - not outstanding, but no reason we shouldn't have him ahead of Clive Ross by the end of the season.

Jonno Gibbes has had two games in charge. I will make this prediction - we'll get worse before we get better. But I do think we'll get better.

Don Alfonso wrote:We were woeful, but I think there's a clear attempt to move play on from last season. Anyone deciding that we have to deliver silverware in our first season under two new coaches needs their head read.

Ludik's worst game in an Ulster jersey.

Mattie Rea was fine - not outstanding, but no reason we shouldn't have him ahead of Clive Ross by the end of the season.

Jonno Gibbes has had two games in charge. I will make this prediction - we'll get worse before we get better. But I do think we'll get better.

Same old story Don. Year after year when fans say 'When will we finally get there', there will always be somebody who will have something to say about some new team bedding in etc etc...
Do you work for Logan??

I do think it's a little early in the season to lambaste the club in light of a lacklustre game versus Treviso, but I don't think it's so ridiculous for a fan to consider silverware this season.
I'm sure teams have won silverware in the first years under new head coaches before.
I get it, the Facebook fans who swing from one pole to the other every week are frustrating to listen to to say the least, but let's not make excuses for the club already after only two games.

Joe Schmidt had a nightmare start at Leinster, fans wanted him gone. Ended his first season with a HC and Pro12 runners up

clivemcl wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:We were woeful, but I think there's a clear attempt to move play on from last season. Anyone deciding that we have to deliver silverware in our first season under two new coaches needs their head read.

Ludik's worst game in an Ulster jersey.

Mattie Rea was fine - not outstanding, but no reason we shouldn't have him ahead of Clive Ross by the end of the season.

Jonno Gibbes has had two games in charge. I will make this prediction - we'll get worse before we get better. But I do think we'll get better.

Same old story Don. Year after year when fans say 'When will we finally get there', there will always be somebody who will have something to say about some new team bedding in etc etc...
Do you work for Logan??

I do think it's a little early in the season to lambaste the club in light of a lacklustre game versus Treviso, but I don't think it's so ridiculous for a fan to consider silverware this season.
I'm sure teams have won silverware in the first years under new head coaches before.
I get it, the Facebook fans who swing from one pole to the other every week are frustrating to listen to to say the least, but let's not make excuses for the club already after only two games.

Not making excuses - telling you about my realistic expectations. I think Gibbes can make a huge difference, but it'll take more than a season, because we don't currently have great strength in depth. I.e. not currently good enough squad.

I'm not sure how saying "we're not good enough" is making a excuse? Surely it's the opposite?

Very impressed with what I've seen of Cooney and nice to see Trimble and Bowe look in good nick. Fly half may be a bigger issue than no 9 this year.

There seems lot of doom and gloom around going around.

Are Ulster in crisis ...again?

You mean except for when Bowe bought a simple dummy?

Lealiifano looks to be lacking a little when it comes to making decisions when to kick at the right time, given his lay off its probably understandable

For me Treviso, especially up the middle were open to someone just putting a simple chip over their defensive line as their cover seemed to be sitting a bit deeper than they needed to expecting us to play territory

No Coetzee for Scarlets. No Piutau either.

That's fairly bad news all round.

Piutau isn't a huge loss other than getting bums in seats, Reidy, Henry and Deysel should be more than up to the task in the backrow

No Best, Hendy or Payne either it appears

1) McCall 2) Herring 3) Herbst
4) AOC 5) Treadwell
6) Deysel 7) Henry 8) Reidy
9) Cooney 10) Lealifano
11) Stockdale 12) McCloskey 13) Marshall 14) Trimble
15) Ludik

To my mind, absolute beat we can field. Maybe Cave at 13.

It gets worst still for you guys as it seems that Scarlets are bringing back their Lions for this fixture.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41240283

Don Alfonso wrote:1) McCall 2) Herring 3) Herbst
4) AOC 5) Treadwell
6) Deysel 7) Henry 8) Reidy
9) Cooney 10) Lealifano
11) Stockdale 12) McCloskey 13) Marshall 14) Trimble
15) Ludik

To my mind, absolute beat we can field. Maybe Cave at 13.

Cave at 12 might not be a bad option defensively thought McCloskey does seem to be doing better there in the two games so far this season

I thought McCloskey has looked good defensively in the last few games. I can't remember him trying too many choke tackles which may have been part of the problem.

"Ulster will be without star scrum-half Charles Piutau and lock Marcell Coetzee, who are both injured."

Some quality journalism there form BBC Wales.

Did the Scarlets only have two Lions? If Davies starts as he played with the Lions, he will wreck us. If he plays as he did during the regular season last year, I'm less concerned.

Don Alfonso wrote:"Ulster will be without star scrum-half Charles Piutau and lock Marcell Coetzee, who are both injured."

Some quality journalism there form BBC Wales.

Did the Scarlets only have two Lions? If Davies starts as he played with the Lions, he will wreck us. If he plays as he did during the regular season last year, I'm less concerned.

And

Venue: Kingspan Stadium, Belfast Date: Friday, 15 September Kick-off: 17:35 BST

Actually - I supposes they had Liam Williams as well. They'll miss him. Excellent player.

I hate to see Coetzee linked with a knee injury again. Will we actually see any more of him this season than any other?
It's ridiculous that Scarlets, the champions and favourites get their Lions internationals back yet Ulster, definitely not champions, are further handicapped by not getting our lads back when we need all hands on deck.

So for Friday's game you are "...without star scrum-half Charles Piutau and lock Marcell Coetzee, who are both injured."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/41240283

This KO time is earlier than I expected.

marty2086 wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:"Ulster will be without star scrum-half Charles Piutau and lock Marcell Coetzee, who are both injured."

Some quality journalism there form BBC Wales.

Did the Scarlets only have two Lions? If Davies starts as he played with the Lions, he will wreck us. If he plays as he did during the regular season last year, I'm less concerned.

And

Venue: Kingspan Stadium, Belfast Date: Friday, 15 September Kick-off: 17:35 BST

so the KO is wrong too?

Coetzee is expected back next week, Richard Mulligan reporting that the Lions will be back next week or the following week

Is it the same for the other provinces?

Hang on - Coetzee has injured his knee again?

From Jonathan Bradley on Twitter

Henderson will be back first, maybe next week, certainly for Zebre. Best either Zebre or Connacht. Not sure on Payne.

Don Alfonso wrote:"Ulster will be without star scrum-half Charles Piutau and lock Marcell Coetzee, who are both injured."

Some quality journalism there form BBC Wales.

Did the Scarlets only have two Lions? If Davies starts as he played with the Lions, he will wreck us. If he plays as he did during the regular season last year, I'm less concerned.

4 Lions if you include Liam Williams and Gareth "Geographical 6" Davies!

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Hang on - Coetzee has injured his knee again?

According to the Ulster Rugby injury update although they've not indicated what type of injury. I hope this isn't a sign of things to come though. Are old injuries flaring up with even limited gametime?

Griff wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:"Ulster will be without star scrum-half Charles Piutau and lock Marcell Coetzee, who are both injured."

Some quality journalism there form BBC Wales.

Did the Scarlets only have two Lions? If Davies starts as he played with the Lions, he will wreck us. If he plays as he did during the regular season last year, I'm less concerned.

4 Lions if you include Liam Williams and Gareth "Geographical 6" Davies!

5 if you include new boy Halfpenny.

Well, logically you can't have Williams AND Ha'penny.

Had forgotten about Davies.

Looking forward to this one, hopefully we'll get a break in the weather and we could see some good rugby from both sides, possibly a high scorer.

Dropping Best, Hendy and a fit Coetzee into that pack will do wonders, so fingers crossed.

Just watching some YouTube clips of Spence, five years on.

Bloody hell, what a player.

Don Alfonso wrote:Just watching some YouTube clips of Spence, five years on.

Bloody hell, what a player.

Has it really been that long already?

toml wrote:Dropping Best, Hendy and a fit Coetzee into that pack will do wonders, so fingers crossed.

I am sure they are not playing on Friday night.