Glasgow and The Disapproving Neighbours 18 At Last! Whose Round is it?

by jimbopip Thu 07 Sep 2017, 1:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

I'll Put A Funny Sub-Title Here

Insert funny image here, probably of a genuine Glaswegian; none of your See-an Canary nonsense here.

Insert an image summing up the pretentiousness of Luvviedom. Grant Gilchrist in a kilt eating shortbread?

Add some statistics; time elapsed, in decades, since Ickle Jonny missed a tackle. Time elapsed, in eons, since someone stayed awake for the whole 80 minutes at the Library.

Make some witty banterish comment to start the ball rolling.

See! How hard was that? Hug

by **George Carlin** Tue 21 Nov 2017, 6:43 pm

A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:Ickle Jonny apparently off to Brizzle next season

With Finn and Jonny going, young Hastings and Scott Cummings have some shoes to fill.

No offence but that really would be a decision to go for the money rather than the prestige.

Cannot imagine JG is without suitors.

by **BigGee** Tue 21 Nov 2017, 6:48 pm

Tom English suggesting that it is 50/50 whether JG goes to Bristol.

It seems a slightly odd choice as he could undoubtedly go to a bigger more established club should he wish, so you can only imagine the amount of money he is being offered and Glasgow won't be able to get anywhere near that.

I suppose the only thing to hope is that JG considers that he is young enough to delay such a move for another couple of years. He is going to get a top offer from Glasgow regardless and will be much better managed during that time.

Money talks though and it is hard to turn down a fortune when it is dangled in front of you.

Tom English also said it will all be decided before xmas. It would be a bit of a blow for us to lose the two of them in one year.

by **BigGee** Tue 21 Nov 2017, 6:50 pm

George Carlin wrote:
A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:Ickle Jonny apparently off to Brizzle next season

With Finn and Jonny going, young Hastings and Scott Cummings have some shoes to fill.
No offence but that really would be a decision to go for the money rather than the prestige.

Cannot imagine JG is without suitors.

You do get the feeling that the new owner of Bristol sees himself in the Toulon president mode!

by Hazel Sapling Tue 21 Nov 2017, 10:14 pm

JG also has to consider if he would be better served waiting a year to see if Bristol can make the ERCC unless the money is THAT good.

Cummings is a top prospect (along with the naughty boy) so losing him would hurt less than Russell. Still a blow to the prestige of Glasgow though

by **George Carlin** Wed 22 Nov 2017, 6:38 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:JG also has to consider if he would be better served waiting a year to see if Bristol can make the ERCC unless the money is THAT good.

Cummings is a top prospect (along with the naughty boy) so losing him would hurt less than Russell. Still a blow to the prestige of Glasgow though

Nah, I've never thought that. There's a lot of chat on the Welsh boards about losing talent to England and France but at the same time, how else is new talent expected to come through the production line?

You can make an argument that the Scotland team has improved a lot in recent years partly because spots in the pro teams were freed up by more experienced players moving on. We wouldn't have seen a resurgent Lee Jones if Maitland had still been there, for example.

Losing Gray and Russell will mean a lot to the fans because they are home grown talents but there will be others.

by Tattie Scones RRN Wed 22 Nov 2017, 8:17 am

With regards to the JG to Bristol.....

My best mate lives in Bristol and we chatted about this over the weekend. Bristol's owner is the richest club owner in the world and is more than happy to pump money in to attract the best players around. He says that the clubs target is to win the ERCC within the next 5 years and will pay whatever it takes to achieve that.

The infrastructure is there and the crowds they get are impressive so we'll have to wait and see.

by tigertattie Wed 22 Nov 2017, 9:43 am

sod prestige, sod loyalty, these guys are professionals in a career with a very short window of time to make earnings.

They need to look to the future and if moving to France or England to a "lesser" club for more money then they need to take the move for their own financial security.

by nickj Wed 22 Nov 2017, 12:03 pm

Losing Finn and JG are symptoms of our current economic reality, unfortunately. This is exactly why the SRU is courting outside investment and building the 'super 6'. Our star players will always be tempted elsewhere while there is such an imbalance in the money side of the game. My fear is the gap will only widen if we don't keep guys who fill stadiums in market. Additional investment and guaranteeing that there is consistent stream of new guys coming through, are the current solutions. Lets hope they work, but its come too late for Finn and JG. Hogg may go soon too on current form. It also really rankles that the RFU is paying clubs to keep lads, like Vellacot, English qualified. They are using their cash mountains to imbalance the game from both ends. Buying established talent and trapping up and coming talent to contracts they wouldn't get if they were 'foreign'. Surely that's illegal or World Rugby should look at it, as a solution to English / French hegemony?

by tigertattie Wed 22 Nov 2017, 12:25 pm

Can hardly blame the RFU for that. Our SRU fully pay all our boys salaries, the RFU only partly pay theirs.

I'm afraid it's purely down to size. The audience numbers in England and France are 10x that of Scotland. Therefore it is completely understandable that England would have 10 x the teams and be able to pay 10 x the amount to players than we can in Scotland.

The only way we can close the gap is for the percentage of the population in Scotland watching rugby to be higher.

by nickj Wed 22 Nov 2017, 12:51 pm

I can't blame them, but it rankles that the RFU pay clubs to field a majority of English qualified players (EQP) in their match day squad. 16 in the Championship, 15 in the top flight. So while they benefit from bigger salaries, that means the likes of Vellacott and say, Redpath Jnr, are stuck. They opt to stay EQP or they struggle to get a contract. Its a tactic that could screw our exiles production line.

by **RDW** Wed 22 Nov 2017, 1:40 pm

Neither Bradbury or Ritchie are in the Scotland squad. Even allowing for one of them staying behind as injury cover I'd like to think at least one of them would be on their way to SA just now!

by Welly Wed 22 Nov 2017, 1:44 pm

I mean you use the likes of Vellacot as an example yet also fail to mention that he is a product funded by the RFU and Prem academy, so why wouldn't they want an incentive to keep them?

It doesn't stop them either though look at Moriarty.

by alive555 Wed 22 Nov 2017, 2:05 pm

Until Scotland has a 3rd team realistically we need to export players to improve.

My guess is the best way of producing a better national team is having this type of model (just a guess not exact science!)

Years 1-3

Glasgow - 50 players - 40 SQ - 30 Internationals
Edinburgh - 50 players - 40 SQ - 30 Internationals
England - 20 players - 10 Internationals
France - 3 players - 2 Internationals
Others - 3 players - 1 Internationals

So thats 126 players and 73 Internationals

Years 3-5

Glasgow - 50 players - 40 SQ - 27 Internationals
Edinburgh - 50 players - 40 SQ - 27 Internationals
England - 25 players - 12 Internationals
France - 8 players - 5 Internationals
Others - 3 players - 1 Internationals

So thats 134 players and 72 Internationals

Years 5-10

New Club - 45 players - 35 SQ - 10 Internationals
Glasgow - 45 players - 35 SQ - 25 Internationals
Edinburgh - 45 players - 35 SQ - 25 Internationals
England - 30 players - 12 Internationals
France - 10 players - 6 Internationals
Others - 3 players - 1 Internationals

So thats 178 players and 79 Internationals

So theoretically we go up from 126 Players to 178, which is a decent 42% increase of course . On Paper Smile

)

I have no idea if thats the SRU plan but I think it may be something similar, who knows !

by tigertattie Wed 22 Nov 2017, 2:31 pm

I can see what you're trying to do but there's two major flaws in your model

1. we won't be getting a new pro team
2. there is only one national team so to have 79 internationalists would involve far too much rotation and the team would never have a settled look

nice try though

by A Simply Mesmeric Try Wed 22 Nov 2017, 2:36 pm

Any news on Dan Carter retiring? Does anyone think (without sniggering) that he may do a swap with Russell? Perhaps on a player/coach deal? Would be a truly magnificent role model for Hastings.
TBH, Glasgow aren't short at 10 with Hastings, Horne, Jackson, Thomson and Henderson (currently loaned out to french side Stade Nicois - http://www.stadenicois.com/joueurs/henderson-josh/).

Aaron Cruden joked about about a short soiree in Scotland, as he's got a great relationship with Rennie. Fingers crossed.

As far as other young 10s go, there's Conner Eastgate at Wasps' Academy and Cameron Redpath at Sale's Academy.

Does Edinburgh have a young 10 behind Weir and Tovey (and now Hickey and van der Walt)? I know Kinghorn can play there but he seems to be dominating the 15 shirt.

by **RDW** Wed 22 Nov 2017, 2:37 pm

I'm sure I read recently that DC is off to Japan to finish his career.

I don't think Edinburgh have any young 10s on their books!

by nickj Wed 22 Nov 2017, 2:38 pm

Baggott?

by EWT Spoons Wed 22 Nov 2017, 2:38 pm

Edinburgh have a young lad called Baggot. Came on against Sale in preseason, looked capable, but hasn't been seen since.

by A Simply Mesmeric Try Wed 22 Nov 2017, 2:43 pm

SRU have released preliminary info regarding the new league!

36 pages. In a nutshell, it is some guidelines for the new clubs.

http://www.scottishrugby.org/sites/default/files/editor/images/the_super_6_tournament_-_franchise_information.pdf

by alive555 Wed 22 Nov 2017, 3:58 pm

tigertattie wrote:I can see what you're trying to do but there's two major flaws in your model

1. we won't be getting a new pro team
2. there is only one national team so to have 79 internationalists would involve far too much rotation and the team would never have a settled look

nice try though

No new team in next 10yrs? Sure about that?

And when I mean 70 players i mean past, current and future players. Ie 30pc or so in total play int'l rugby. I think its about right..

by Hazel Sapling Wed 22 Nov 2017, 6:15 pm

Well, the French and English teams are averaging 13-14k attendance per game; they get almost double Glasgow and treble Edinburgh. This is ignoring average ticket prices (an aside, Quins tickets are extortionate). Until they do, they are down £1.5-2 million before they get to sponsors and tv interest (that build with growing attendances).

A third team would be good, but the immediate concern is Glasgow are at the point where they could expand and need to take advantage of this period.

by **BigGee** Wed 22 Nov 2017, 10:31 pm

I don't see any scenario where Scotland will run more than two fully pro teams.

The price of running a half decent pro team is just going up and up all the time, we are just running to stand still.

Our aim should be to maximise what we have got, firstly by getting Edinburgh up to speed (which seems to be happening) and then by making sensible decisions about who we can afford to keep when players break through. We can offer packages that are not just about money, but we can't offer £700,00pa, which is what Dobbo said that FR went for. That is over 1/10 of the whole playing budget for a pro team on one player. This is just not viable and they rightly did not even attempt to match it.

As well as letting other leagues pay for our players, there is also the option of the partnership deals that seem to be going on and fair play to the SRU for exploring them. We have not heard anything else about the Worcester interest for a while, so wonder how that is going?

Interestingly after consigning them to the dust bin after their early season form, they seem to be getting it together a bit (under our old friend grampa Solly) and won their first game well last weekend. So maybe it was not such a bad idea!

London Irish looking a bit more likely for the drop just now!

by **RDW** Thu 23 Nov 2017, 12:00 pm

Head coach Richard Cockerill has named his side for tomorrow evening’s Guinness PRO14 clash against the Toyota Cheetahs at Toyota Stadium in Bloemfontein (Friday 24 November, kick-off 5.30pm GMT - live on BBC ALBA).

The team selection includes seven changes to the side that earned a bonus-point victory over Ospreys at Myreside three weeks ago. In the back-three, wing Duhan van der Merwe makes his competitive debut for the club in his homeland, with Dougie Fife on the opposite flank and Blair Kinghorn at fullback.

In the midfield, James Johnstone remains at outside centre. The former Scotland Sevens man is partnered by Chris Dean, who gets the nod having made his 50th appearance for the club in the victory over Ospreys. The experienced duo of Jason Tovey and Sam Hidalgo-Clyne continue their half-back partnership.

In the forwards, Neil Cochrane starts at hooker having returned from international duty with Scotland and packs down alongside Michele Rizzo and Murray McCallum, who makes his first start of the season. Lock Anton Besler returns to the second row and is partnered by club captain Fraser McKenzie.

An industrious back-row sees the youthful pairing of Luke Crosbie and Lewis Carmichael pack down alongside Viliame Mata, who gets the nod at No.8.

Edinburgh team to face the Toyota Cheetahs at Toyota Stadium in the Guinness PRO14 on Friday 24 November – live on BBC Alba (kick-off 5.30pm GMT)

15. Blair Kinghorn (51)

14. Dougie Fife (91)

13. James Johnstone (8)

12. Chris Dean (50)

11. Duhan van der Merwe *

10. Jason Tovey (32)

9. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (92)

1. Michele Rizzo (6)

2. Neil Cochrane (59)

3. Murray McCallum (24)

4. Anton Bresler (60)

5. Fraser McKenzie C (88)

6. Lewis Carmichael (18)

7. Luke Crosbie (5)

8. Viliame Mata (20)

Replacements

16. Cameron Fenton (1)

17. Rory Sutherland (51)

18. Kevin Bryce (9)

19. Callum Hunter-Hill *

20. Magnus Bradbury (37)

21. Nathan Fowles (42)

22. Jaco van der Walt *

23. Junior Rasolea (18)

by **RDW** Thu 23 Nov 2017, 12:05 pm

Well the squad is isn’t as bad as first feared – we’ve been helped greatly by Sutherland and Bradbury being released for us.

That’s a really exciting backline (when could we last say that about Edinburgh??) and I’m excited to see Dean at 12 with JJ outside him – they could be a real potent combination. Looking forward to seeing VDM#2 as well – his highlights reel showed him to be a big and fast winger.

Pack is a bit less solid, with a very young back row and a front row that is likely to be pulverised by a strong Cheetahs unit.

We’re still likely going to lose this – can see it being something like 50-30 Cheetahs! A 4 try LBP is certainly a possibility for this one.

by EWT Spoons Thu 23 Nov 2017, 12:06 pm

Incredibly strong team all things considered.

keen to see how DVDM gets on, would be a nice debut for him and Jaco (should he get on) against a SA team in SA.

by **RDW** Thu 23 Nov 2017, 12:12 pm

I might even stay on at work tomorrow to watch the first half before going home!

it helps that we have a beer fridge in the office for Friday afternoons Cool

by tigertattie Thu 23 Nov 2017, 2:57 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I might even stay on at work tomorrow to watch the first half before going home!

it helps that we have a beer fridge in the office for Friday afternoons

we don't even have a tele Sad

by **RDW** Thu 23 Nov 2017, 4:58 pm

Looks like Cockers has won the club V 7s debate (for now) - JJ and Fife are playing in South Africa just now and the 7s squad has been announced for the first 2 rounds and they're not in it!

Good to see Darcy Graham back fit and getting a runabout

John Dalziel has named a 13-man squad for the opening leg of the World Rugby HSBC Sevens Series in Dubai on Friday 1 and Saturday 2 December.

Scotland performed well at the Assupol International warm-up tournament in South Africa, finishing runners up to the hosts and Dalziel has selected a blend of new and familiar faces as he gets his competitive tenure underway.

Robbie Fergusson will make his World Series debut, as will part-time core players Harvey Elms and Sam Pecqueur.

Earlier this week it was announced that Max McFarland signed a partnership contract with the 7s and Glasgow Warriors, he is included as is Melrose’s Ross McCann who shone under Dalziel at the World Rugby U20 Championships this summer.

Edinburgh Rugby’s Darcy Graham has recovered from a knee injury and is included having featured twice for the 7s during last season’s World Series.

Core players Gavin Lowe and Nick McLennan both return having missed the second half of last year’s campaign due to injury.

Hugh Blake joins his 7s teammates having reached the final of the Mitre 10 Cup Championship final with Bay of Plenty in October.

Scotland 7s Head Coach John Dalziel said: "We are all looking forward to the start of the season and adding new experience and depth to our squad.

"The lads have trained very well over a long period and they are a tight group. We will face some very experienced and settled teams so we know we have to be at our very best straight from the off.

"It's the start of a new cycle with a great crop of young players coming through our age grade systems, many of whom I have worked with previously. The young players are complimented well with the experience of our core players and there is the huge responsibility of representing Scotland for all involved."

Scotland 7s fixtures in the first leg of the World Rugby HSBC Sevens Series in Dubai, Friday 1 – Saturday 2 December. Kick-offs UK time, live on Sky Sports.

1 December

7.14am Scotland 7s v France 7s

10.58am Scotland 7s v Spain 7s

4.37pm Scotland 7s v England 7s

2 December

TBC

Scotland 7s squad to compete in Dubai (World Series tournaments in brackets)

1. Scott Riddell (57) (c)

2. Harvey Elms (0)

3. Hugh Blake (16)

4. Ross McCann (0)

5. Nick McLennan (12)

6. Jo Nayacavou (29)

7. Jamie Farndale (21)

8. Robbie Fergusson (0)

9. Darcy Graham (2)

10. Gavin Lowe (16)

11. Max McFarland (0)

12. Jack Cuthbert (3)

13. Sam Pecqueur (0)

Core players unavailable: Dougie Fife (Edinburgh Rugby), James Fleming (shoulder injury), Nyle Godsmark (leg injury), James Johnstone (Edinburgh Rugby).

by tigertattie Thu 23 Nov 2017, 5:20 pm

Jack Cuthbert though!

by **RDW** Fri 24 Nov 2017, 8:56 am

Finally a bit of an explanation about Fruean's absence

Summer signing Robbie Fruean is not available due to a virus, but it is not thought to be connected to his previous heart problems. “He has not been feeling very well and has had some sickness and is  just not fit to play,” Cockerill said. “At the moment we are just trying to get to the bottom of it, he has had a viral infection and he is trying to shake that off and he is on antibiotics and did not travel with us.”

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/edinburgh-hope-duhan-van-der-merwe-s-pace-can-tame-cheetahs-1-4621838

by **BigGee** Fri 24 Nov 2017, 9:12 am

All very vague.

Antibiotics won't cure a viral infection, so contradicting himself a bit.

Unfortunately with his medical history, RF is likely to have some ongoing medical issues. It is all very unfortunate for him and let's hope he gets over it

by screamingaddabs Fri 24 Nov 2017, 9:15 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Finally a bit of an explanation about Fruean's absence

Summer signing Robbie Fruean is not available due to a virus, but it is not thought to be connected to his previous heart problems. “He has not been feeling very well and has had some sickness and is  just not fit to play,” Cockerill said. “At the moment we are just trying to get to the bottom of it, he has had a viral infection and he is trying to shake that off and he is on antibiotics and did not travel with us.”

Read more at: http://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/edinburgh-hope-duhan-van-der-merwe-s-pace-can-tame-cheetahs-1-4621838

If it is viral why is he on antibiotics?!

by tigertattie Fri 24 Nov 2017, 9:51 am

mind Cockers isn't a doctor.

he could be taking an anti viral and cockers just calls it antibiotics.

by **RDW** Fri 24 Nov 2017, 9:56 am

Or he may have other issues that require antibiotics.

As an aside, I'm assuming players have to give their agreement for injury and medical details to be shared with the public, given usual doctor-patient confidentiality rules. Professional sport is strange in that everyone wants to know how fit the players are and that information is freely available usually.

A GP would be struck off if he told the press that tigertattie had gonorrhea for example!

by Welly Fri 24 Nov 2017, 10:09 am

Good luck trying to get any info out of cockers.
He is famous for not wanting to give out any info re players injuries etc good or bad and when ask will generally be extremely vague in his answers.

by **RDW** Fri 24 Nov 2017, 10:11 am

Welly wrote: Good luck trying to get any info out of cockers.
He is famous for not wanting to give out any info re players injuries etc good or bad and when ask will generally be extremely vague in his answers.

Edinburgh's team sheets no longer list injured players so that is certainly true. They occasionally release updates on the more longer term injuries, but certainly we're in the dark of shorter term ones.

by Welly Fri 24 Nov 2017, 10:22 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Welly wrote: Good luck trying to get any info out of cockers.
He is famous for not wanting to give out any info re players injuries etc good or bad and when ask will generally be extremely vague in his answers.

Edinburgh's team sheets no longer list injured players so that is certainly true. They occasionally release updates on the more longer term injuries, but certainly we're in the dark of shorter term ones.

Pretty much what he did at Tigers.
Don't think Tigers have ever had a injury list with team sheets.

Think Cockers prob feels it gives opposition teams more of an idea of the likely team sheet before Thursday/Friday or something.

by tigertattie Fri 24 Nov 2017, 12:29 pm

Team news:

team for the first leg of the saffa tour

15. Blair Kinghorn (51)
14. Dougie Fife (91)
13. James Johnstone (8)
12. Chris Dean (50)
11. Duhan van der Merwe *
10. Jason Tovey (32)
9. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne (92)

1. Michele Rizzo (6)
2. Neil Cochrane (59)
3. Murray McCallum (24)
4. Anton Bresler (60)
5. Fraser McKenzie C (88)
6. Lewis Carmichael (18)
7. Luke Crosbie (5)
8. Viliame Mata (20)

Replacements

16. Cameron Fenton (1)
17. Rory Sutherland (51)
18. Kevin Bryce (9)
19. Callum Hunter-Hill *
20. Magnus Bradbury (37)
21. Nathan Fowles (42)
22. Jaco van der Walt *
23. Junior Rasolea (18)

Players unavailable
On the wing, RDW Scotland - not fast enough
Prop, FES -Too posh to push
No 8, TigerTattie - Gonorrhea

by **RDW** Fri 24 Nov 2017, 12:36 pm

Keep up tattie - I posted that yesterday!

by tigertattie Fri 24 Nov 2017, 12:51 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Keep up tattie - I posted that yesterday!

Including the bottom section?

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Fri 24 Nov 2017, 12:59 pm

Well surprise surprise! I see we have that idiot Ian Davis as referee on Sunday in Swansea. Is he not an ex Osprey or is he just from Swansea? Whatever he is a piss-poor one eyed ref who has a big down on our forwards style of play. Without waking up our Welsh friends around these parts who cannot stand the Pro 14 (12)'s lack of professionalism, this does not look good at all.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Fri 24 Nov 2017, 1:05 pm

Teams up for Sunday :-
15. Ruaridh Jackson (122)

14. Lelia Masaga (3)

13. Nick Grigg (30)

12. Sam Johnson (31)

11. Leonardo Sarto (14)

10. Adam Hastings (2)

9. George Horne (6)

1. Alex Allan (59)

2. Pat MacArthur (161)

3. D’Arcy Rae (32)

4. Kiran McDonald (0)

5. Scott Cummings (26)

6. Callum Gibbins (7) CAPTAIN

7. Matt Smith (6)

8. Samuela Vunisa (0)

Replacements:

16. George Turner (9)

17. Ryan Grant (110)

18. Siua Halanukonuka (0)

19. Hamilton Burr (0)

20. Lewis Wynne (17)

21. Kaleem Barreto (0)

22. Brandon Thomson (4)

23. Lee Jones (63)

Strongish considering we have about 24 first team on ints/injured. Stange for Lee Jones to get a return ( I"m not complaining btw) after his strong game v the ABs.

by Hazel Sapling Fri 24 Nov 2017, 2:06 pm

Some new names (weird to see Hamilton Burr as a name (Alex Hamilton was killed by Aaron Burr in a duel after Hamilton used his influence to deny Burr the presidency, probably the most famous duel in US history)). Second row has really taken a beating with Swinson out long term. Has Peterson gotten crocked as well?

Be good to see what the new tighthead can do. Overall a strong team outside of the second row.

by 21st Century Schizoid Man Fri 24 Nov 2017, 4:58 pm

Not sure what is going on with Peterson? Has being going well with Marr College too.

Big chance for Hastings and G Horne to establish themselves further in absence of Russell, Price, Horne P and Pyrgos.

by **RDW** Fri 24 Nov 2017, 5:33 pm

is there anyone in that stadium?

by **RDW** Fri 24 Nov 2017, 5:55 pm

This is not a good game.

by Welly Fri 24 Nov 2017, 6:06 pm

Embra got carded for less in Leinster

by Hazel Sapling Fri 24 Nov 2017, 6:07 pm

He was in the air but there was only ever one place he was going and that was into the kicker at pace. Hard one. Probably about right.

by Welly Fri 24 Nov 2017, 6:13 pm

SHC needs to get to the rucks quicker.

by tigertattie Fri 24 Nov 2017, 6:17 pm

Surely that boy was offside

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