Homepage - Page 2

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the 4th season of the fantasy aviva premiership game


Opening Weekend fixtures; Leicester Tigers vs Exeter Chiefs ; London Irish vs Harlequins ; Newcastle Falcons vs Bath ; Northampton vs Gloucester ; Saracens vs London Wasps ; Worcester Warriors vs Sale Sharks

This Weeks match thread(s) :- https://www.606v2.com/t8662-fixtures-3#245781

Season One Homepage (Archived)

Season Two Homepage Part One(Archived)

Season Two Homepage Part Two(Archived)

Rules

Fixture/Results list

League Table

Top Points Scorers

Top Try Scorers

European Homepage

LV Anglo Welsh Cup Homepage

Transfer Homepage

Press Releases

Unavailable Players

Waiting list for a team

1. Sam
2. pullthestrings
3. Bathite

Teams
Bath RFC
Manager:- 207bars

Exeter Chiefs
Manager:- RugbyDriver

Gloucester
Manager:- Anonmattyt

Harlequins
Manager:- Steve_sharks

Leicester Tigers
Manager:- LukeLovesLuka

London Irish
Manager:- stnick88

London Wasps
Manager:- Arry

Newcastle Falcons
Manager:- PoolyPunk

Northampton Saints
Manager:- Dammit_Chris

Sale Sharks
Manager:- SirJohnnyEnglish

Saracens
Manager:- LDCPete]

Worcester Warriors
Manager - Prop_Lyd

i bet he is gutted, dont blame him either.
just think johnson prefers the power and ball carrying that waldrom brings.

He explained it was tongue in cheek. refreshing to see some sense of humour

Let's be honest, if he was better than Waldroum he'd be in the squad.

Waldroum might do us a favour as after Easter we're seriously struggling at 8. Not 100% sure about Haskell there so would be great to see the Tank get in the squad.

I'd always start with Easter but Waldrom is a great impact sub.

Waldrom is not the right message but will be an asset in NZ if picked.

To be fair every team has players from all over the globe within reason so sod it lets get him involved

Totally what I think, he'd really add to our backrow with Ashton, Youngs, Flood and Croft running off him.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Let's be honest, if he was better than Waldroum he'd be in the squad.

Waldroum might do us a favour as after Easter we're seriously struggling at 8. Not 100% sure about Haskell there so would be great to see the Tank get in the squad.

Yeah, I bet the AB's are Poopie themselves about facing a player who couldn't get anywhere near the side so chased the cash and international honours over here. Read and McCaw must be laughing into their protein shakes as we speak!

I don't think that means anything Pete really, there's plenty of non-ints from other countries that would really add to the England side. Waldroum was a top pro at Crusaders just behind some world class players in his position.

Would Easter be anywhere near a SA or AB jersey? It's a position we're weak in and Waldroum is there or there abouts the best 8 in the AP.

Pooly is that why he starts all the big game for Tigers on the bench behined Crane?!

I dont agree with the selection - he clearly isnt English and its such a shame that we are having to do this. I do think he's one of the best 8's in the Premiership. it just sits a bit uneasy with me that we have to rely on foreign players like this - Hape, Flutey should never have been given caps

There's absolutely no point in selecting Botha though, he's had a good season but is no more than a good club player and I'd much rather have someone like Kitchener in the squad so he can get the experience in time for the next WC.

Its a shame really.

Didn't he win some sort of AP player of the year award?!?!? He apparently didn't start towards the end of the season becasue of a fallout with Cockrill and his English elegibility.....how true? I'm not sure.

I'd much rather have him as backup to Easter than anybody else, lads a class act, foreign or not. Flutey, Hape etc etc.....it winds me up too but why the hell not pick the lad

Think its a dangerous stance by the RFU - taking players who arent good enough for their own country and stopping young English players getting the chance - look at how Narroway acted, best season in a long, long time and then gets slapped in the face.

I dont mind if they are older players and they've got English parents etc, but its not what English rugby should be about. Now just wait for the next batch of foreign players to find grandparents who went on holiday here once or twice before.

Wasnt it Wood who won the player of the year award? Think Waldrom must have won foreign player of the year...

Match thread incase you'v missed it

https://www.606v2.com/t7492-fixtures-1

If the likes of Waldrom and Hape are better than what we have, play them. Waldrom offers the opposite of Easter, and will be a great impact sub.

The best team we can put out is what we want. We have another 4 years to blood new players in. Jonson is judged on results and performances, and is right to pick someone like Waldron over Narraway as he is a better player.

Something like that, heard his name mentioned somewhere. I see your point but I think Waldroum is better than Narraway....simple. He's only a year or so older and would bring more to England in the WC.

I'm thinking as fan here, I just want us to win with the best players available.

Chris if Waldrom, Hape and Flutey shouldnt play then surely that means Manu Tuilagi should also not be playing for England.

I agree that he's better than Narroway, but I just cant understand how someone who isnt English can come and play for England - if NZ offered to pick him for their WC squad now then I doubt he'd stay in the England camp.

I can understand how people like Stevens, Hartley choose to play for England when they have English parents - but this is something I've never agreed with and personally would rather we didnt do these sorts of things - then again England is one of the most diverse countries in the world, so if the rules are there...

Steven, Tuilagi has been over in England since he was very young and declared his interest to play for England at a young age, he's never represented Samoa - Flutey was a Maori and Hape played for NZ in league.

I dont have an issue with young players choosing England (e.g. the Vunipola's for the u20s), just dont agree with people who do it when they are late 20s and play for England because they werent good enough to play for NZ, SA etc. That's what gets me.

If the likes of Flutey, Hape and Waldrom were miles ahead of the English alternatives in terms of ability then maybe I could see a case for including them, but the fact is they are not.

None are world class, none are going to be that player who wins us the world cup this year, and none are going to take England forward, so I really do not see the point in having them.

Yes rugby is a results business, but like I say, none are that much better than other alternatives if at all, and MJ would be given time he was blooding players and moving England in the right direction.

Steven

Tuilagi is slightly different for me, as he has been in this country as a teenager and come through the Leicester academy. I can't really have him a comparison against someone like Hape for example, who has been capped by New Zealand at Rugby League How the Flip can he be English, it makes no sense to me.

Pete agree with you 100% on this - England will never be a top team if we are having to rely on players who arent good enough for their own countries to then play for England.

Botha, Hape, Flutey and Waldrom would get no where near their own national sides, so why dont we actually try and give a young English player the chance to just train with the England set up, because in 4 years time that training could have shown them what it takes to become a world class player.

" England will never be a top team if we are having to rely on players who arent good enough for their own countries to then play for England."

Well we are a top team, as seen by the 6N and AI. We'll never be the best team until our own players step up and prove that they are better than foreign imports.

We have no WC centres....players like McAlister and Kahui are nowhere near the NZ side but would walk into the England team.

We have no WC backrow players - NZ, Aus, SA, Ireland reel them off and we have Croft basically who's the only player near a top class BR.

I feel for MJ as we arn't that strong throughout the country. I think Matt pointed out the SA squad and backups.....we don't have that. The youngsters are not progressing enough so these sub-standard foreign players have to be brought in to keep us challenging.

Pooly, McAlister and Kahui are capped All Blacks and in a different league to Hape, Flutey and Thomas the tank, who was nowhere near wearing the black jersey, so don't think that's a comparison that can really be made.

How can the youngsters progress pooly if we keep bringing in second rate foreigners and our kids don't get the chance to show what they're made of?

We shouldnt be selecting foreign imports - what incentive has Narroway now got to play for England. Improve again and just wait for another foreign player to come along?!?

Its again short term thinking by England - NZ and SA are miles ahead of us, we can beat any of the other teams, but we should be looking at how we improve and give future players the chance to be as good as the AB's and SA's.

Waldrom isnt world class, he may benefit England short term, but I will stick by my opinion of if he isnt good enough for NZ why on earth should he be good enough for England...

NZ are better than us Chris....a 5th choice NZ 8 would be a decent bet for England. You can't say if one player is not good enough for one country he wouldn't walk into another side.

These lads have had chance to progress in the AP and haven't been overly impressive. Narraway is a very good player but just not really Int class imo...Waldroum should do a better job.

The youngsters and fringe players have had chances in the Churchill. Attwood was poor and Botha played well taking Attwoods spot.....who's to blame?

Narraway was up and down against poor opposition, MJ looks like he's seen enough and fancies Waldroum, Narraway has only himself to blame.

These players get chances but either are not good enough or are failing to impress.

NZ first training camp:

Chiefs: Ben Afeaki, Hikawera Elliot, Richard Kahui, Brendon Leonard, Liam Messam, Mils Muliaina and Sitiveni Sivivatu.

Hurricanes: Aaron Cruden, Hosea Gear, Andrew Hore, Cory Jane, Ma’a Nonu, Conrad Smith, Neemia Tialata, Victor Vito and Piri Weepu.

Highlanders: Jimmy Cowan, Tom Donnelly, Jarrad Hoeata, Colin Slade, Ben Smith and Adam Thomson.

Injured players: Israel Dagg, Isaia Toeava and Tony Woodcock.

Re: Homepage - Page 2
 by LDCPete Yesterday at 11:45 pm
How can the youngsters progress pooly if we keep bringing in second rate foreigners and our kids don't get the chance to show what they're made of."

Tuilagi, Sharples, Simpson, Wood, Corbisiero, Lawes, Youngs.....

If they're good enough they're getting their chance. Seems the main issue here is Botha/Attwood & Waldroum/Narraway.

On form and ability I'd take both foreign boys.

I'm with Pooly on this one

In any team past Durham Northumberland division 1 you pick your best side which is available to you and at the moment this includes Thomas Waldrom.

Botha has worked hard to get his shot where as Attwood has done nothing to show he deserves it in the last few months. He even lost his place in the Gloucester team. I don't agree with the Botha selection as i question his contact skills.

I think if were going to moan about good imports replacing poor English players then we must also look at 1)Tim Payne over Joe Marler - Poor prop no where near the top level picked over up and coming Marler who looks the real deal.

End of the Day Waldrom would prove a useful asset to most international sides.

Matt....Donald left out by Henry, think you're safe mate. Bit off as he's played well and Slade has hardly played 2 games.

http://mobi.supersport.com/rugby/rugby-world-cup/news/110622/Flyhalf_Donald_ditched_by_All_Blacks

Marler is a young prop who is not ready yet for international rugby, so I can kind of see why Payne is there, think MJ wants some experience around the front row. Don't rate Payne, but that's how I see it.

Attwood got suspended and struggled to get back in the Gloucester side as others came in and took their chance well, no problem with that. In England terms, he was on tour last summer and looked good and I am surprised that MJ has not included him as it would have sent a good message out to players that if they are good players and in the squad, they will be supported through a slight downturn in form.

Pooly, you can name all sorts of young English players who have played mate, it doemate, all that shows is that there was no foreign 'English qualified' player in their position for England to turn to!

I fully understand that we live in a mixed society and nationality is something that people should be able to choose for themselves, my issue with the likes of Waldrom, Hape etc is they are mercenaries who do not want to be, or see themselves as English, and when they finish their playing careers they will be off back down under and leave no lasting legacy to the game in this country.

I'm not sure what your point is Pete. Are you annoyed that Waldroum and Hape are included over English players?

I disagree with them being included full stop Pooly. I don't see them as English, and I don't believe they see themselves as English either, so why should they where the England jersey?

They will both be back of down under as soon as their careers are over.

Good news Regarding Donald. Was worried about using Lamb until he had form during the WC. i now have strong half backs and a good front row the foundation of any team.

Just need to get Alberts, Hari and Burger our of the WC!!

It's the rules though Pete....where do you draw the line? Waldroum has English parents and is in theory more English than Tuilagi. Although Tuilagi has spent longer here than Waldroum, so is that ok?

I do agree it's not great but it's in the rules. I think if anything the residency rule needs to be scrapped.

Pooly, he has an English grandmother. I have an Indian grandfather, who I have never met, but I don't feel in any way Indian.

Answer me this. Had Leicester not offered Waldrom a lucrative contract to come here and play, do you think he'd have been sat in Christchurch not getting gametime for the Crusaders and pondering how he will fare in the ITM Cup when it starts, thinking to himself, I love my nan so much and am proud of my English heritage, do you know what I am going to declare for England.

Simple answer is no. He had no interest in playing for England and never considered himself in any way shape or form English, until circumstances dictated that he might get to play in a World Cup if he did. Mercenary, simple as.

I agree, with you that yes, it's the rules, so we have to live with it, but that doesn't make it right.

Sorry I meant grandmother. He's still more English than Tuilagi in my opinion, if Tuilagi hadn't have moved here at 13/14/15 he wouldn't be playing for us full stop....at least Waldroum had a tedious link lol.

Either way, both in ruled.

Can someone remind of the selection rules for the new summer tournament that Driver has done?

Same as AP mate

they change day by day but the latest was same as the normal game.

Mein Fuhrer Driver will probably adjust this as and when his latest turn of mood takes him!!!!

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here about what makes someone English Pooly, as the way I see it, at least Tuilagi has spent some of his formative years here. He has grown up here and has more claim to being English than a man who clearly wanted to be an All Black and became English aged 28 when he realised he wasn't good enough to wear the black jersey.

10 EQ total, 5 in team?

It is Luke

Heil Driver!!!!

To be honest I don't think either are Pete, you should play for the country you're born in. Keeps it simple.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:To be honest I don't think either are Pete, you should play for the country you're born in. Keeps it simple.

Nationality is never simple.

What if someone is born in the UK, has an Australian mother and South African father, and lived all over the world during their childhood. What nationality are they?

Agree with Luke.

Nationality isn't simple. Im english born living in Ireland since I was 4 with an irish mother and english father. I consider myself english and proud of it(still amazingly have an english accent!!) but my brother just one year younger then me considers himself fully irish. Have three sisters all born and raised in Ireland. Whos to say im right to consider myself english and my brother to consider himself irish?

Nationality is never simple, but does anyone really believe that flutey, hape, Botha and waldrom consider themselves English?

Who knows Pete, flawed system that we're taking advantage of.

Oh i agree Pete mate.
Highly doubt any of those lads consider themselves English.

How Hape is allowed to play considering his rugby league call ups for New Zealand I will never understand! Waldrom is no more then a mercenary with this english granny of his but admit he offers more then what we currently have form the other contenders. If I was MJ I would be picking the best options available to me as well

Dont agree on Botha at all though.
This is a lad who came here to play rugby in the lower leagues. He has worked his way through the english rugby structure and done quite well for himself. I consider myself English 100% but when I was offered the chance to fight internationally for Ireland in Karate after years of winning national leagues and all ireland championships and coming through the structure here I felt I was quite deserving of that call up.

For me Botha is also deserving of a call up after doing something similar

S15 team of the tournament:

15. Kurtley Beale (Waratahs)
14. JP Pietersen (Sharks)
13. Jaque Fourie (Stormers)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (Crusaders)
11. Digby Ioane (Reds)
10. Quade Cooper (Reds)
9. Will Genia (Reds)
8. Kieran Read (Crusaders)
7. Matt Todd (Crusaders)
6. Schalk Burger (Stormers)
5. Andries Bekker (Stormers)
4. Nathan Sharpe (Force)
3. Owen Franks (Crusaders)
2. Tatafu Polota-Nau (Waratahs)
1. Wyatt Crockett (Crusaders)

Reserves
16. Keven Mealamu (Blues)
17. Ben Franks (Crusaders)
18. Sitaleki Timani (Waratahs)
19. Adam Thomson (Highlanders)
20. Andy Ellis (Crusaders)
21. James O'Connor (Force)
22. Zac Guildford (Crusaders)

Pooly where did you get that team from or is it your own??? SBW would be nowhere near S15 team of the year

Wouldn't have had any of your players if it was mine Matt lol

Sydney Herald.....

http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/super-rugby-team-of-the-tournament-20110622-1gf9u.html

Not that bad but think 12, 14, 11 are definitely wrong.

Also not sure Todd would be in it either