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Welcome to the 4th season of the fantasy aviva premiership game


Opening Weekend fixtures; Leicester Tigers vs Exeter Chiefs ; London Irish vs Harlequins ; Newcastle Falcons vs Bath ; Northampton vs Gloucester ; Saracens vs London Wasps ; Worcester Warriors vs Sale Sharks

This Weeks match thread(s) :- https://www.606v2.com/t8662-fixtures-3#245781

Season One Homepage (Archived)

Season Two Homepage Part One(Archived)

Season Two Homepage Part Two(Archived)

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Top Try Scorers

European Homepage

LV Anglo Welsh Cup Homepage

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Waiting list for a team

1. Sam
2. pullthestrings
3. Bathite

Teams
Bath RFC
Manager:- 207bars

Exeter Chiefs
Manager:- RugbyDriver

Gloucester
Manager:- Anonmattyt

Harlequins
Manager:- Steve_sharks

Leicester Tigers
Manager:- LukeLovesLuka

London Irish
Manager:- stnick88

London Wasps
Manager:- Arry

Newcastle Falcons
Manager:- PoolyPunk

Northampton Saints
Manager:- Dammit_Chris

Sale Sharks
Manager:- SirJohnnyEnglish

Saracens
Manager:- LDCPete]

Worcester Warriors
Manager - Prop_Lyd

Gill looks a real talent just lacks a bit of bulk, his skiils at that age are very impressive though. Expect he'll bulk up over the summer and be a real force next year.

You seem fine on the flanks Chris, a specialist 7 would really add to your backrow inbetween Elsom and Parisse.

dammit_chris wrote:Was looking at either a hooker or 7 to strengthen to be honest -

My strongest team would be:

1. Sheridan
2. Hartley
3. Hayman
4. Lawes
5. Albacete
6. Elsom
7. Rees
8. Parisse
9. Simpson
10. Giteau
11. Halfpenny
12. de Villiers
13. Tuilagi
14. Ashton
15. Foden

16. Webber 17. Domingo 18. Stevens 19. Davies 20. Messam 21. Phillips 22. Beauxis 23 Siviatu.

Would start that front row because I think bringing on Webber, Domingo and Stevens would compeltely change the course of a game and Sheridan, Hartley and Hayman would offer a very strong foundation. Think all my bench are now impact players, which is what I've been wanting to do from the start.

Main problem Chris is you have a few marmite players there mate. Sheridan, Rees, Simpson, Phillips, Giteau. You have also suffered with long term injuries and lack of form, Elsom, Parisse, de Villiers, Halfpenny and your best players Hartley, Ashton, Foden being away a lot with England. Maybe look at form players rather than names and in tactics concentrate on the positive aspects of how your team will perform rather than 1. saying how good your players are (people will make up their own minds on ability) and 2. knocking the ability of the oppositions players (see point 1).

Don't flower it up or nothing Pete...

Pete, didnt knock any players last season - just put everything into tactics about how my team would play. Admit I did it a lot in season 1, 2 and 3 but changed last year completely.

Really dont know how Giteau is a marmite player - he's world class, one of the best backs to have played the game in the last decade. He had a bad season, but over last 6 months he excelled playing 10. Just seems to be one of those band wagons that people have jumped on and just stayed on because of his form of 6-12 months ago. Never understood it personally.

One issue I do see Chris is that you only have Giteau as a really good creative player in the backs. i see you've asked us to comment on how Cipriani at 15 would work to give that second creative player in this week's fixtures so you are trying to address that.

I don't know how it would go down but I'd look to use Manu at 12 and have a more creative 13

Chris, I watch a lot of Super 15 and Giteau has been very hit and miss this year. Has produced some fantastic moments, but has also made some howlers at times. Until he has a solid run of games people are unlikely to change their minds. World cup could make him again if he goes well.

Does anybody have any idea when the AP fixtures are released?

Pete, I played rugby to a pretty high standard when I was 17-21 and my position was a 10 and 12, so like to think I know about that position - for me I'd always have the order for internationals as Carter, Giteau, Cooper as top three with Wilkinson, Sexton and Steyn following behind.

Giteau had a rudey poo time of it 6-12 months ago, but some of his performances have been awesome since then. Put him behind a pack as good as the Reds and he'd be spoken about in the same light as Cooper is. He's played for teams with a poor pack for years, whether thats at international level or at club.

Chris, this is going over old ground mate, you clearly think he is great, whereas I think he has been hit and miss. Our difference of opinion kind of highlights my point about you having a fair few marmite players.

I like him but think he is a class below Carter and Cooper these days. would never mark you down for playing him though still a great talent.

lads bit of advice on fly halfs please....

Ebersohn? Elton Jantjies? Grant? anyone else u can think of!?

Wisnieski and Brett still in foreigns mate

SJE beat me to those two. Tough call out of those 5. Wisnieski should be involved with France really.

Ebersohn great at getting the backline going. Jantjes a punt for the future but really talented

Depends what your looking for Nick.
Ebersohn and Jantjes both decent prospects. Out of them all id opt for Wisnieski think hes a class act but if Lievremount goes after the world cup Id expect him to be in the french squad. Grant is probaly the best option if your looking for an available all year flyhalf

Grant is the best there Nick, very steady. EJ looks the best prospect but a little flakey at the minute.

tough one really as I have James, Bowden and Hernandez but you never know if JMH will stay injury free. Starting to think a 10 isnt a top priority for me actually!

Pete, point I was trying to get across is that Giteau plays behind a poor pack, but still plays well. Trouble is that he has been playing on the back foot for the best part of 5-6 years, but still performs. If he had a strong pack then no one would be saying he is a marmite player.

I like Cooper, think there are things he can do with the ball that no one else can but he still overplays and takes the wrong options too many times - in a big game I would always prefer to have Carter, Giteau or Wilko.

Does anyone else think Wilko should be starting 10 for England - I just dont get Toby Flood, he's a good player but will never be a top international, for every great game he has 2-3 distinctly ordinary ones.

Anyone know of any silky centres I could go for in the foreigns?

Tom Carter Arry? Seems a good player, though will probably end up being replaced by Horne when he recovers from injury.

Could have Lualala available if that's of interest - Roberts and him would be pretty formidable!

Foerigns are open

Anyone else see Nick Easter outsprint Haskell in trianing?

dammit_chris wrote:Pete, point I was trying to get across is that Giteau plays behind a poor pack, but still plays well. Trouble is that he has been playing on the back foot for the best part of 5-6 years, but still performs. If he had a strong pack then no one would be saying he is a marmite player.

I like Cooper, think there are things he can do with the ball that no one else can but he still overplays and takes the wrong options too many times - in a big game I would always prefer to have Carter, Giteau or Wilko.

Does anyone else think Wilko should be starting 10 for England - I just dont get Toby Flood, he's a good player but will never be a top international, for every great game he has 2-3 distinctly ordinary ones.

Chris

All that about playing behind a poor pack is an excuse for when 9's and 10's don't play well. If they were in the top bracket of player, they would still stand out as doing well behind a beaten pack.

The criticism that you level against Cooper about taking the wrong option at times is a fair one, but over the past 2 years it is equally fair to level it at Giteau. I am not saying that he is not a very good player, just that he has not been in top form for at least 2 years, and even in top form is not in the same bracket as Carter or Wilko in his prime.

Interestingly in relation to your comment about playing behind a rubbish pack, 2 years ago people were laudung the Aussie forwards and talking up Robinson and Alexander being world beating props and Giteau had the 10 jersey then. Now those players are out of form and Cooper has the 10 jersye so there is a fair argument that he is playing behind a worse pack than Giteau did, yet it doesn't seem to get used as an excuse by Cooper or his fans when things don't go right for him.

Like I said, we won't agree on this I wouldn't think, but that is the way I see it mate.

Looks like Falcons are making some signing Driver. Ashley Wells a SA prop....an ex Aus S15 centre.....and an Argie backrow player (Leguizimon?!?!).

Also looks like Alex Gray is off

Arry Tom Carter or Jared Payne would sort out your midfield issues.

Anyone see that Liam Gill was named in the planet rugby team of the week? Would like to know what people think of him, as not sure how many of you have actually seen him play and feel that I will get marked down if I play him dispite him being one of the most promising 7s in world rugby. Havent seen him have a bad game yet!

He had a pretty poor game the other week against the Force, got physically dominated, but was stronger last week.

If he's in a dominating pack he'd be ok but he's not physical enough yet in my opinion, needs to bulk up a bit.

Gill comes with a high reputation but has just two super rugby starts and a handful of 10 minute sub apperances many of which were fairly anonymous. One good performance doesnt make you a world beater. Can't see how he can be rated yet. 7 is your major weakness next season Chris with Gill unproven and Rees a crook

Jared Payne is a million times better than Carter in the centres. Also hs can play 15 very well.

Would help your depth Arry. Thats if i dont bid for him!!

Pete the Aussie pack has always been poor, front row has been dominated for years and years - only difference in last two years in Pocock's emergence. Giteau has been very good behind a poor pack and was shifted all over the backline.

Cooper is a good player, but look at how he cracked when England bossed the Aussies in the second test last year, and when our backrow levelled him - their whole backline imploded!

Im sorry but agree with Pete.
Giteau was 10 when the aussies had supposedly there best pack in years and years but was playing pish poor. Got shifted to 12 were Barnes has out played him so dropped.

Been up and down all season really and would consider Carter, Cooper, Wilko, Steyn, Sexton all better flyhalfs then him currently. At 12 barnes, SBW, JDV, De Jongh etc etc better then him.

He has been a great player over the last decade but has dropped off over the last 2 years for me and cant blame the pack as Australia have seriously improved there

Chris

We could all pick one game in a career to highlight any point that we wanted to about any player, so using England roughing up Cooper last summer as an example of him cracking under pressure doesn't really prove anything. As I recall it was Giteau who missed a simple kick straight in front of the posts in that game which ultimately cost Australia the win, so we could use that ti highlight his mental frailties if that was apoint we wanted to pursue.

The issue of the pack is a nonsense mate. Cooper came to prominence playing behind the Reds pack which prior to this season used to get beaten up on a regular basis.

You asked for feedback on your team and why people felt you hadn't done so well as you thought you should and I highlighted Giteau as one of a number of reasons why I think you didn't do so well last season. It is only my opinion and one that I am unlikely to change until I see an improvement in form and consistency from Giteau. You need to accept it and either say fair enough, I disagree but will keep him as I believe he will prove the doubters wrong (as I am doing with Narraway who I evidently rate more highly than most others in this game), or decide to cut your losses and by a potentially more popular player.

Like I say, just my opinion and I don't necessarily mark you down for having him in the side, but I just don't see him at the same level as some of the other 10's in the world game right now.

Steyn - he's been awful mate, Wilko cant get ahead of Flood and Sexton plays one game well for every two bad!

Last 6 months Giteau has been very good - not sure how anyone has missed that, previous 12 months he was poor, but he's been getting loads of plaudits all over the place.

I'm a similar stance to Johnny & Pete. Giteau is still a good 10, let's not take that away but I think he plays his best stuff at 12 where the pressure is off him a bit.

He's not been world class for a while though if you want to stick a label on him. World class is generally top 3 in their position and I don't think he's been that for a while.

Still has magic though and I think he'll thrive outside Wilko at Toulon. That's a perfect partnership in my opinion as Wilko offers up a more structured game than Cooper.

I don't think Giteau has been that great really Chris. Think I've watched every S15 game over the last 3 weeks and he's been very up and down.

He's still a class act but as Pete said, marmite at 10.

Chris

I don't read papers or reviews of matches generally so have no idea what people are saying about individual players. I do watch a lot of games (as the wife will testify to!!!) and make up my own mind.

Also, in relation to Australia having a poor pack, if that is the case, how come 10 of the 12 teams in this game have Australian forwards in their squads? They are all good players and the first choice Australian pack is as good as any of the other Tier 1 nations packs, albeit they do not have the depth of talent there that some of the other teams do.

I've got Michael Classens available if anybody needs a good scrum half for the WC

Chris

I knwo this is probably going to sound like I am having a pop at you but genuinely I am not, I am just trying to be constructive and give an honest view of how I see this game. Here is a comment from you about one of your players.

dammit_chris wrote:Liam Gill will move towards being my starting 7 mid way through next season, the lads special. Just having to wait a little bit longer for him to come through, but he is going to be a class act.

Got my eye on a player who can play 6,7 and 8 who I'm thinking of signing but need to offload either Watson or Kankowski first!

Now we all big up our own players, so I have no drama there, but what you have to understand is that when you are bigging up a player as a world beater, who is not a first choice for his club or country, but is Australian, and then in another sentence are decrying the Australian pack as poor, citing this as a reason for another one of your players (Giteau) shortcomings, you are basically contradicting your own argument, and you cannot have it both ways. You would also argue in your tactics/key points that Elsom is World Class, but then use the fact that Australia have poor forwards as a defence for Giteau's failings. It doesn't sit well with me.

Now you are not the only person in the game to contradict your own arguments/points, but when I see it from anybody, it kind of makes me take against the players you are holding up as examples and mark them down.

Maybe I am in the wrong with that, but I have seen it a fair few times in the game, and it is something that frustrates me and I do take into account with my predictions.

Pete the Australian front five is cr ap, event the Welsh front five is better than it. I am not contradicting my own argument, I think Pocock and Elsom are world class, doesnt mean their pack is any good.

Really havent got a clue about the point you are trying to make - I rate Liam Gill, many commentators says he has more promise than Pocock showed at his age. If you watch his game, for an 18 year old he is damn good. So I dont see how that has any bearing whatsoever into saying that Giteau plays behind poor packs, they;ve never played together.

A fly half needs a good solid pack to play behind, look at Wilko between 2000-2003 and then look at how he played for England in the era without Woodman, Johnson, Dallagio, Hill and Back. Its not rocket science why there was a major difference in his game. A good pack makes a fly half, Giteau hasnt had that pack, but he's still a great player.

I'd say Stephen Moore is pretty good as are Nathan Sharpe and James Horwill

dammit_chris wrote:Pete the Australian front five is cr ap

Moore, TPN, Sharpe, Horwill and a few others. Top, top players.

Ok Chris,

You win, Giteau is a rugby god and it is only because everyone else from 1-8 in the Australia is team is gash that he can't nail down the 10 jersey and wouldn't be guaranteed the 12 shirt either if Barnes was fit and firing.

That better?

Alexander and Robinson were rated as some of the best props in the world not long ago. Sharpe, Chisolm and Moore are quality.

Aus get parity with most, England got nothing against them in the scrum in the AI.

Pooly, England dominated Aussies in second game - name last time that the Aussies managed to get one over the NZ or SA pack. They cant. England can beat them because they have a better pack.

Australia have arguably the best backline in the world - Genia, Cooper, Giteau, Beale, Mitchell, O'Connor - Barnes if he's fit - yet they very rarely beat NZ or SA - now why could that be?

The game at twickernam I don't think Aus conceded one pen in the scrum Chris. The game in Aus was 3rd choice hooker and TH and a half fit Robinson.

I think Aus beat SA home and away last TN and
beat NZ the last game the played. Not sure where this myth that Aus have a poor pack comes from.

Pooly, I wouldnt pick a single Aussie front 5 player for the England front 5 - I'd have their backrow any day of the week. England are able to beat them because our tight five can get the beating of them in the set piece, and in mauls. At a neutral venue I would always put money on England beating the Aussies.

Couldnt say that about NZ or SA though and that's because they can do to our pack what the English pack does to the Aussies!

You starting early today Chris

Are you seriously saying that you would not have Stephen Moore over Dylan Hartley??? That is a mental statement mate.

Also the Aus second row of Sharpe and Horwill is on a par with Lawes and Palmer at least.

In the propping department ours are in better form, but as Pooly pointed out, Robinson and Alexander were being luaded by many as world beaters in 2009, and if they hit that form again they will be seen as equals with the England boys.

I'd have Moore over Hartley myself and Sharpe would be close. Agree on the props but that's more a form thing. I'm still failing to see what this has to with Giteau's lack of form though.

Chris mate just to go back to an earlier comment,

Even you are calling for Wilko to get in ahead of Flood so you cant be using that excuse can you? Sexton has just won a 2nd Heineken cup for Leinster, tore England to sheds and is possibly the form flyhalf in the world with Cooper! Steyn may have been poor this year but has been better then Gits at 10 which says alot about Gits form there.

On the aussie front 5. I think Moore would fit in to our side quite handily. TPN with a good chance as well. In the locks Sharpe would start and possibly Horwill over Lawes as well. By your reasoning that must mean Englands front 5 is Poopie

Also on the discussion of Liam Gill yesterday, How much gametime of his have you seen yourself? Apart from one game he has looked lightweight and over awed at super 15 level. He may be a top junior but most definately isnt a world beater at senior level. Needs to seriously bulk up and perform next super 15 to be rated

Toulon

Arrivals: Nicolas Agnesi (Pau, was on loan), Steffon Armitage (London Irish), Bakkies Botha (Bulls), Julien Dumora (Pau), Romain Frou (La Rochelle), Matt Giteau (Brumbies), Eifion Lewis-Roberts (Sale), Willie Mason, Alexis Palisson (Brive), Seva Rokobaro (Aix), Luke Rooney (Melbourne Rebels), Jone Tawake (Narbonne), Sébastien Tillous-Borde (Castres)
Departures: Fotu Auelua (Brumbies), Romain Barthélémy (Albi), Benjamin Basteres, Thierry Brana (Bordeaux-Bègles), (Contract ended), Felipe Contepomi (Stade Français), Joe El Abd, Gavin Henson, Clément Marienval (Brive), Tom May (Northampton), Mehdi Merabet (Oyonnax), Paul Sackey (Stade Français), George Smith, Thomas Sourice (Aix), Saimone Taumoepeau (Castres), Rudi Wulf (Cardiff Blues)



Yikes!

Didn't know smith had left aswell as wulf

Clermont have done really well:

Arrivals: Lee Byrne (Ospreys), Benoît Cabello (Brive), Nathan Hines (Leinster), Benjamin Kayser (Castres), Regan King (Llanelli), Daniel Kotze (Aurillac), Sitiveni Sivivatu (Chiefs), David Skrela (Toulouse), Gerhard Vosloo (Brive)

I would say Clermont have done very averagely. Do not rate King his defence is paper weight, Kayser is average, Byrne not had a good game in years. Sivivatu never been a fan of as he goes to pieces in close games and tries flinging the ball everywhere

Vosloo is a good flanker though