Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

[profitius]

First topic message reminder :

Continued from this one. https://www.606v2.com/t63658-irish-provinces-news-gossip-thread-2016-17
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[geoff999rugby]

Tempt him away where Geoff? The Crusaders? That'd be something new to see. The player drain to the south begins....

Good point - still working for Racing though which would be more likely

[SecretFly]

That weekend was a bit like ye olden days. 4 Irish wins, was it? There was a time Irish rugby circles would be breaking out the champagne for such weekends in Europe.

Are we back? Or is this just a mighty last gasp hopeful, but ultimately hopeless, surge before total capitulation to the money sides of Europe?
I've even had an English club supporter say that it's ridiculous that Leinster should be able to put so many Leinster players onto the field in a club competition. The inference is obvious. They should be playing for the 'bigger', 'better' and 'more wealthy' clubs of England and France instead.

[rodders]

That weekend was a bit like ye olden days.  4 Irish wins, was it?  There was a time Irish rugby circles would be breaking out the champagne for such weekends in Europe.

3 of them on the road too Connacht may have been the best result of the lot.

I think the English teams are having a bit of a post Lions/AI hangover but 4 impressive performances non the less.

I just hope the Irish players don't peak too early, post xmas is when it counts. Leinster look like genuine contenders this year, they have great depth and are playing sensational rugby.

[thebandwagonsociety]

That weekend was a bit like ye olden days.  4 Irish wins, was it?  There was a time Irish rugby circles would be breaking out the champagne for such weekends in Europe.

3 of them on the road too Connacht may have been the best result of the lot.

I think the English teams are having a bit of a post Lions/AI hangover but 4 impressive performances non the less.

I just hope the Irish players don't peak too early, post xmas is when it counts. Leinster look like genuine contenders this year, they have great depth and are playing sensational rugby.

Sarries ended up without Barrett for much of the game. Itoje and Vunipola provide their pack with so much, them being missing shouldn't be underestimated. If they come through the group and those few players are back and healthy they'll be contenders again. The Exeter game was a surprise result for me. Leicester and Northampton aren't what they were in yesteryear. Bath were away to Toulon. Quins aren't exactly the vanguard of english rugby. So for me the only real surprises were Exeter and Sarries with there being a bit of an rationale for Sarries poor display.

Would still have Saracens on the short list of contenders come May. Along with Toulon, Clermont and LaRochelle (playing great rugby). Were any of the other english teams really contenders?

If the 4 Irish sides produce 4 wins this coming weekend to lock out the December rounds of games then that would be worth celebrating. A lot of rugby to be played yet.

[eirebilly]

Leinster look like genuine contenders this year, they have great depth and are playing sensational rugby.

Leinster are a very serious side and I would certainly have them as 1 of the favourites to win the whole tournament. Leinster lost their way for a season or 2 but I really heading in the right direction again. I really enjoy watching them play right now.

[rodders]

The only way I see Leinster losing is away in France or an injury to Sexton, otherwise they are favorites along with Clermont this year for me, if they they can finish in the top seeds.

La Rochelle could be dark horses though, the power and pace they have is incredible.

[eirebilly]

I think I may be the only person who doesn't rate La Rochelle so highly rodders. Think they have performed well but cannot see them getting through the knockout stages, think they will fall at the first hurdle.

Back on to the Irish news, Scannell and Arnold formed a very strong midfield for Munster on the weekend. Still do not understand how Scannell was overlooked for the AI's...

[marty2086]

I think I may be the only person who doesn't rate La Rochelle so highly rodders. Think they have performed well but cannot see them getting through the knockout stages, think they will fall at the first hurdle.

You mean the team that topped the Top 14 last season and are doing so this season and put over 50 points on Clermont earlier this season?

[eirebilly]

I think I may be the only person who doesn't rate La Rochelle so highly rodders. Think they have performed well but cannot see them getting through the knockout stages, think they will fall at the first hurdle.

You mean the team that topped the Top 14 last season and are doing so this season and put over 50 points on Clermont earlier this season?

So that means I have to rate them highly? I have my opinion, not sure what is wrong with that. Time will tell I guess.

[Collapse2005]

I think I may be the only person who doesn't rate La Rochelle so highly rodders. Think they have performed well but cannot see them getting through the knockout stages, think they will fall at the first hurdle.

Back on to the Irish news, Scannell and Arnold formed a very strong midfield for Munster on the weekend. Still do not understand how Scannell was overlooked for the AI's...

Who would you have not included in the Ireland squad in favour of a place for Rory Scannell?

[thebandwagonsociety]

I think I may be the only person who doesn't rate La Rochelle so highly rodders. Think they have performed well but cannot see them getting through the knockout stages, think they will fall at the first hurdle.

Back on to the Irish news, Scannell and Arnold formed a very strong midfield for Munster on the weekend. Still do not understand how Scannell was overlooked for the AI's...

Overlooked for Farrell who had a fine showing in the AIs (I too thought and think Scannell is a better prospect than Farrell).

Ringrose had a slip up for the Exeter try but a very solid display for his second game back from a long term injury. Henshaw's play was class as always.

Aki and McCloskey put in very decent shifts also I thought.

A lot of centres putting in good displays. Can only be positive for Ireland.

[rodders]

Still do not understand how Scannell was overlooked for the AI's...

Because Schmidt picked that big lump Farrell?

[marty2086]

I think I may be the only person who doesn't rate La Rochelle so highly rodders. Think they have performed well but cannot see them getting through the knockout stages, think they will fall at the first hurdle.

You mean the team that topped the Top 14 last season and are doing so this season and put over 50 points on Clermont earlier this season?

So that means I have to rate them highly? I have my opinion, not sure what is wrong with that. Time will tell I guess.

Im merely questioning how its the case

[eirebilly]

Its an opinion marty. My apologies, I will ask you prior to my next posting what my opinion should be

[eirebilly]

Still do not understand how Scannell was overlooked for the AI's...

Because Schmidt picked that big lump Farrell?

Did not think at the time nor do I think now that Farrell should have been in the squad. The wrong Munster midfield player was selected in my opinion.

Farrell played ok but think that Scannell would have brought more.

[the-goon]

I think Scannell will be recalled for the 6 nations. I think Schmidt had a look at him over the summer and wanted to assess Aki, McCloskey and Farrell during this window. We shall see.

Basically he will pick 4 of these 7. Injuries and gameplan will dictate which ones.

Aki, Ringrose, Henshaw, McCloskey, Marshall, Scannell, Farrell.

But with Aki, Ringrose, Henshaw all certainties, it's really 1 of McCloskey, Marshall, Scannell, Farrell.

[rodders]

Still do not understand how Scannell was overlooked for the AI's...

Because Schmidt picked that big lump Farrell?

Did not think at the time nor do I think now that Farrell should have been in the squad. The wrong Munster midfield player was selected in my opinion.

Farrell played ok but think that Scannell would have brought more.

Yeah I actually wasn't that impressed despite the media hype. He was poor enough against Fiji, McCloskey was the more impressive, but Schmidt clearly has more time for the big Munster man.

He was decent against Argentina, showing good hands in a couple of rehearsed moves but I think the reaction was over the top.

I would bet that, assuming Payne is out Joe will go with Aki and Henshaw as first choice. I'm a big fan of Ringrose myself but think Joe trusts Henshaw more defensively.

I can see a few others making the extended squad but don't see anyone else getting a look in if 3 from the above 4 are fit.

[Collapse2005]

Farrell did exactly what was asked of him so it was impressive given his experience. Maybe he isn't the most dynamic player but from the likes of Farrell or Scannell Schmidt is looking for a squad player IMO, someone who can slot in at a minutes notice and stick to the script.

[eirebilly]

Yeah I actually wasn't that impressed despite the media hype. He was poor enough against Fiji, McCloskey was the more impressive, but Schmidt clearly has more time for the big Munster man.

He was decent against Argentina, showing good hands in a couple of rehearsed moves but I think the reaction was over the top.

I would bet that, assuming Payne is out Joe will go with Aki and Henshaw as first choice. I'm a big fan of Ringrose myself but think Joe trusts Henshaw more defensively.

I can see a few others making the extended squad but don't see anyone else getting a look in if 3 from the above 4 are fit.

I like Ringrose and I think he has a massive future but I also really rate Henshaw at 13 opposed to 12. Not really that big a fan of Aki, although he did well.

For me, the 12's should be Scannell/McCloskey and the 13's Henshaw/Ringrose with Aki as back up. Not sure that Payne will ever be back to his best either and to be honest, I thought he was much better playing at 15 than 13 anyways.

Would love to see more of Carbery at 10 as well, he looks like he could be some player as well.

[rodders]

For me, the 12's should be Scannell/McCloskey and the 13's Henshaw/Ringrose with Aki as back up.

I agree but not on Aki, I think he's better than the 2 boys at 12. With the options there at 12 now I prefer Henshaw at 13 also, although his clubmate Ringrose is potentially a better player so that is a pickle.

Arnold seems to be going well at Munster too, he's been better than Chris Farrell if you ask me.

[eirebilly]

Arnold has been very good, was very surprised by him. For Ireland, it is a good sign that there is such depth in the midfield

[rodders]

Depth everywhere Billy, we're the NZ of the NH didn't you know?

[eirebilly]

Depth everywhere Billy, we're the NZ of the NH didn't you know?

10 and 9 are still issues rodders

[Collapse2005]

Depth everywhere Billy, we're the NZ of the NH didn't you know?

10 and 9 are still issues rodders

Not as much as they used to be. Keatley was outstanding for Munster on the weekend albeit he will never be given the credit and Carbery has had enough decent performances for Leinster and Ireland to assume that he will be able to step up to the right standard as required.

Marmion can be a bit hot and cold but between himself and McGrath I think we have two reasonably good options even if they aren't going to be at Murray's level regardless of how good their form is.

Gone are the days where there was literally no-one behind Rog and Stringer.

[rodders]

Depth everywhere Billy, we're the NZ of the NH didn't you know?

10 and 9 are still issues rodders

Get with it Billy, Carbury is the new Dan Carter and Ross Byrne the new Andrew Mertehns don't you read Balls.ie?

And we've so many 9's we might have to send a few down to SA as projects for the springboks.

[marty2086]

Depth everywhere Billy, we're the NZ of the NH didn't you know?

10 and 9 are still issues rodders

Get with it Billy, Carbury is the new Dan Carter and Ross Byrne the new Andrew Mertehns don't you read Balls.ie?

And we've so many 9's we might have to send a few down to SA as projects for the springboks.  

Would their faces fit with the Springboks?

[Pot Hale]

If you run on the assumption/cliche that a coach wants to put best players on the pitch, then Henshaw could be looked at 15 at some point so Ringrose and Aki get on the pitch too. Carbery as a 10/15 on the bench. I think Cooney needs another trial cap too. The Irish version of a French petit generale

[thebandwagonsociety]

Anyone catch Gatland on Off-the-Ball the other night and some of his stories/memories of Eddie? Eddie was on OTB Wednesday Night Rugby this evening so they played a couple of snippets to him and let him riposte. Amazing comparison of different peoples views on events/stories and how emotions can turn adults into kids quibbling. Entertaining stuff.

[rodders]

If you run on the assumption/cliche that a coach wants to put best players on the pitch, then Henshaw could be looked at 15 at some point so Ringrose and Aki get on the pitch too.  Carbery as a 10/15 on the bench.  I think Cooney needs another trial cap too.  The Irish version of a French petit generale

Funny I did think that but to be honest I'm not convinced that Henshaw is a better 15 than Kearney, Conway, O'Halloran or Carbury and Larmour could be the best of the lot.

Didn't Schmidt say he planned to use Henshaw at 15 in one of the AI's but someone got injured?

[geoff999rugby]

Seems Furlong is almost certain to get some sort of CC
Henderson will, probably, get one but far from certain
POM and CJ will not.
Very interested in the length of the contracts.
If 2 years I still reckon CCs will be history in the long term.

Furlong is a show stopper
Henderson is seen as key
Apparently CJ and POM are not

IRFU playing a very dangerous game
Henderson should be playing hardball over this (I think he is) - he has them by the short and curlies

[Golden]

Sorry Geoff, what happens in a post CC world?

The IRFU pay only for appearances for the national team? Surely the provinces wont be able to afford to match Top 14/Aviva wages for all of their Irish starters?

[marty2086]

Sorry Geoff, what happens in a post CC world?

The IRFU pay only for appearances for the national team? Surely the provinces wont be able to afford to match Top 14/Aviva wages for all of their Irish starters?

Increased funding surely?

But the IRFU have tried to call the bluff of too many players by only offering contracts up to the end of this season and built a team around them, now they hope to low ball them and do the RWC on the cheap. It could backfire spectacularly

[geoff999rugby]

Sorry Geoff, what happens in a post CC world?

The IRFU pay only for appearances for the national team? Surely the provinces wont be able to afford to match Top 14/Aviva wages for all of their Irish starters?

The simple answer is I don't know but the facts/rumours I am aware of are:

Every single CC, bar 1 (Toner), end at the World Cup
POM and Stander will not get a CC
Henderson might
Kearney and Best are to be offered 1 year extension to take them to the WC

Now if an organization intended to continue the core policy of their staffing arrangements would they deliberately create a situation where they fall off a cliff in any year.
Going into 2019-20 the IRFU will have Toner, Furlong and, maybe, Henderson on a CC and that is it.
To do that deliberately would be madness

We already have evidence they are prepared to let players go - Moore, Madigan, Zebo and now POM and CJ
My take is they know they cannot compete financially and a different strategy is required post WC.

What would I do ? - give CCs to the core players, ones not easily replaced  and the best of the up and comings - say, for example,  Furlong, Henderson, Murray, Stockdale, Carbery.
Maybe only 7/8 CCs and with a much lower player profile.
In addition picking players from England but not France might be necessary.
(access to players in England is easier and they are better coached and get more rests than French based players)
This would releasing more funds to the Provinces to retain the services of the likes of POM, Sexton, SOB
Proven players entering the last phases of their careers

[marty2086]

IRFU

3. It's the magic number! Tadhg Furlong has signed a new three year IRFU contract that will see him with Leinster Rugby until 2021.

[geoff999rugby]

Lets see what happens to Henderson.
I suggest that a is a big hint to less CCs for only the most key of players.
Still a dangerous strategy - only 3 CCs at the end of the WC

I can see quite a few doing a Zebo or a Madigan.
There is a suggestion Furlong has sold himself short in term of money per annum

[LeinsterFan4life]

Lets see what happens to Henderson.
I suggest that a is a big hint to less CCs for only the most key of players.
Still a dangerous strategy - only 3 CCs at the end of the WC

I can see quite a few doing a Zebo or a Madigan.
There is a suggestion Furlong has sold himself short in term of money per annum

Zebo is already talking about returning to Munster, things must not be too bad.

You keep bringing up Madigan who is a good squad player to have but was just very lucky that Bristol have to overpay for players due to being in the championship. The IRFU did the right thing not going anywhere near that. Moore is another one that gets brought up. He wanted to back out of the Wasps deal before he left and came back to Ireland the first chance he could. We can compete!

[LeinsterFan4life]

Lets see what happens to Henderson.
I suggest that a is a big hint to less CCs for only the most key of players.
Still a dangerous strategy - only 3 CCs at the end of the WC

I can see quite a few doing a Zebo or a Madigan.
There is a suggestion Furlong has sold himself short in term of money per annum

Zebo is already talking about returning to Munster, things must not be too bad.

You keep bringing up Madigan who is a good squad player to have but was just very lucky that Bristol have to overpay for players due to being in the championship. The IRFU did the right thing not going anywhere near that. Moore is another one that gets brought up. He wanted to back out of the Wasps deal before he left and came back to Ireland the first chance he could. We can compete!

surprise surprise POM signs new deal to 2021.

[thebandwagonsociety]

Lions and Ireland duo Peter O'Mahony and Tadhg Furlong have signed IRFU contracts which will keep them at their provinces until at least 2021.

Munster flanker O'Mahony, who had contract offers from English and French clubs, said he's "absolutely delighted" to remain with the Pro14 side.

Leinster tight-head prop Furlong has made 73 appearances for the province and won 19 Ireland caps.




He was a Lions starter in all three Tests against New Zealand this year.

"I am delighted to have signed a contract with the IRFU to continue to play with Leinster," said 25-year-old Furlong.

"I got a number of opportunities over the past few seasons that have helped me to develop as a player and I want to continue to develop and be successful with both Leinster and Ireland."

Furlong made his debut for Leinster against Newport Gwent Dragons in November 2013.

[Sin é]

So, according to Irish Times, the IRFU upped their offer from 410K per annum to 430K (plus win bonus, commercial stuff will make it about 500K per annum. Also reported elsewhere that Gloucester were not in for him (Toulon and Lyon I think). Furlong I think is on 450K per annum.

[eirebilly]

I think I may be the only person who doesn't rate La Rochelle so highly rodders. Think they have performed well but cannot see them getting through the knockout stages, think they will fall at the first hurdle.

You mean the team that topped the Top 14 last season and are doing so this season and put over 50 points on Clermont earlier this season?

So that means I have to rate them highly? I have my opinion, not sure what is wrong with that. Time will tell I guess.

Im merely questioning how its the case

Well now, after Wasps beat La Rochelle today, do you now see why I do not rate them as highly as many here do? OK, so maybe a few of their bigger players were rested but that shows to me that their squad depth is not as strong as it should be.

Ulster beat them at home (Ulster very capable of this as Wasps have shown how it is done) and Wasps win with a TBP and La Rochelle could well be going out at the group phase.

Even if La Rochelle get through, I really do not see them as favourites for the comp.

[SecretFly]

That weekend was a bit like ye olden days.  4 Irish wins, was it?  There was a time Irish rugby circles would be breaking out the champagne for such weekends in Europe.

3 of them on the road too Connacht may have been the best result of the lot.

I think the English teams are having a bit of a post Lions/AI hangover but 4 impressive performances non the less.

I just hope the Irish players don't peak too early, post xmas is when it counts. Leinster look like genuine contenders this year, they have great depth and are playing sensational rugby.

....  If the 4 Irish sides produce 4 wins this coming weekend to lock out the December rounds of games then that would be worth celebrating. A lot of rugby to be played yet.

Okay maybe NOW you'd bloody well join me in popping the bloody cork on the overdue Glass of bubbly, you doubting Thomas basterde?!

[Intotouch]

I'll join you for a glass Secretfly! What a super weekend for Irish sides! I'm thrilled!

I am starting to really tire of the pervasive attitude among Irish media and fans that Irish rugby is basically doomed and at any moment we'll see it all unraveling. (As I write this I still half believe it) It's been spoiling my enjoyment of rugby in Ireland for years and I want to change my attitude myself so that I can properly enjoy the sport and not see a great weekend like this and wonder if this is an era that in the future will be impossible to emulate. In Ireland we are waiting for the day that we lose all of our best players to England and France, when the provinces get continuously outplayed by better financed clubs, when rugby at last echoes what goes on in football etc etc. When our teams do well we're reminded that this could be the golden generation and we'd better prepare for a slump when they go, or when two of them go!

In the meantime look at how English fans and media react to a terrible two weekends in European rugby..".it's the lions hangover, Eddie Jones trains the English players too hard, it's different refereeing at the breakdown"... I'd like to have that attitude. Positivity, optimism, belief in their players and system and no expecting of their clubs entering a doomed slide into an abyss. The English have inspired me as much as our wonderful teams. I'm going to start expecting irish rugby to do well from now on and stop waiting for the other shoe to fall off. Are you with me?

[rodders]

Well well well, the Celtic Tiger has returned, back to back wins again for the provinces.

Very impressed with Munster grinding it out at Welford Road. Leinster were exposed a bit but did well to get the win against a good Exeter. Ulsters defence was poor but they didn't need it and Connacht put a poor Brive side to the sword.

4 tries for Matt Healy and 27 points for Cooney deserves a mention but some excellent performances across the board.

Combined XV:-

15 Kearney
14 Gilroy
13 Nacewa
12 McCloskey
11 Healy
10 Carty
9 Cooney
8 Stander
7 That Munster fella with with the floppy hair.  
6 O'Mahoney
5 Foley
4 Fardy
3 Furlong
2 Cronin
1 Healy

Bench:- Cronin, Herring, Kilcoyne, Henderson, Conan, McGrath, Keatley, Stockdale.

[SecretFly]

Cronin's tooth! Don't forget him. He sacrificed life itself for the cause.

[rodders]

So impressive I included him twice.

[Golden]

Considering Healy should have been sent off after 20 mins I wouldn't be so fast to put him in the team of the week.

[marty2086]

Considering Healy should have been sent off after 20 mins I wouldn't be so fast to put him in the team of the week.

So because of something that didn't happen people aren't allowed to think he played well?

[Golden]

You can think he played well all you want but doing something so stupid and reckless which on another day would cost your team the whole match, is enough, in my opinion, to rule out his inclusion in such a list.

[marty2086]

Those are the margins players play within all the time, Clermont kicked the ball away with two minutes to go against Sarries. I doubt their fans are crapping all over Dave Strettles performance for it or for Parra for not going to the big forwards

You are making the assumption that he intended to hit Cowan Dickie on the head as well

[thebandwagonsociety]

That weekend was a bit like ye olden days.  4 Irish wins, was it?  There was a time Irish rugby circles would be breaking out the champagne for such weekends in Europe.

3 of them on the road too Connacht may have been the best result of the lot.

I think the English teams are having a bit of a post Lions/AI hangover but 4 impressive performances non the less.

I just hope the Irish players don't peak too early, post xmas is when it counts. Leinster look like genuine contenders this year, they have great depth and are playing sensational rugby.

....  If the 4 Irish sides produce 4 wins this coming weekend to lock out the December rounds of games then that would be worth celebrating. A lot of rugby to be played yet.

Okay maybe NOW you'd bloody well join me in popping the bloody cork on the overdue Glass of bubbly, you doubting Thomas basterde?!

Absolutely fly, while it could be argued that the round 3 results were a fluke, the other teams in the back to backs all responded to their defeats very well and upped their performances for round 4. The Irish provinces producing another clean slate of results shows remarkable resolve. Connacht had a brilliant display, Ulster dealt with Sincklar very well, VanGranny has had the best start to a coaching position you could possibly wish for and Leinster despite a slow start, outhalf rejigging and Healy's idiocy in the opening half hour reeled in a 14 point gap in the final 50 minutes of the game.

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