Brexit

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 18 Oct 2017, 8:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Galted wrote:It will stop foreigners praying in our mosques.

by **Pr4wn** Tue 08 May 2018, 6:50 pm

They simply failed to make an adequate case after having literally decades to prepare. No sympathy.

by CaledonianCraig Tue 08 May 2018, 7:02 pm

Pr4wn wrote:They simply failed to make an adequate case after having literally decades to prepare. No sympathy.

They made an adequate case in a lot of areas and not in others. And for me there is no 'they'. We who want independence makes it 'we'. Independence is craved as well for several reasons that don't get expelled by the 2014 referendum as we still hold true in our belief.

In many ways comparisons can be held to the Brexit issue. People in the UK wanted to breakaway from the EU as they see it as shackling the UK just as Scots see Westminster in the same way. Brexiteers feel there are greater rewards outwith an association with the EU as Scots do outwith the UK.

by Samo Fri 11 May 2018, 9:13 am

Electoral Commission finds that Leave.EU broke spending rules and have fined them £70k.

by Duty281 Fri 11 May 2018, 10:58 am

Samo wrote:Electoral Commission finds that Leave.EU broke spending rules and have fined them £70k.

They join Britain Stronger in Europe and the Lib Dems then.

Expenses rules really need to be updated. Not fit for purpose in today's world.

by lostinwales Fri 11 May 2018, 12:28 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:Electoral Commission finds that Leave.EU broke spending rules and have fined them £70k.

They join Britain Stronger in Europe and the Lib Dems then.

Expenses rules really need to be updated. Not fit for purpose in today's world.

The overspend is a concern but the be all and end all. What is of greater concern is the source of the money in the first place, and the whole role of Cambridge Analytica. If there was a healthy margin of victory we could ignore all this but there was not.

Having said all that and (again) given the margin of the vote a sensible government in this position would have used the results as the starting point of the debate not the end. The results showed that there are a lot of pissed off people in the UK and working out why would be a lot better for us than just assuming its down to the EU and sweeping any other reasons under the carpet. Instead it feels like a slow motion coup.

by Duty281 Fri 11 May 2018, 12:59 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:Electoral Commission finds that Leave.EU broke spending rules and have fined them £70k.

They join Britain Stronger in Europe and the Lib Dems then.

Expenses rules really need to be updated. Not fit for purpose in today's world.

The overspend is a concern but the be all and end all. What is of greater concern is the source of the money in the first place, and the whole role of Cambridge Analytica. If there was a healthy margin of victory we could ignore all this but there was not.

Having said all that and (again) given the margin of the vote a sensible government in this position would have used the results as the starting point of the debate not the end. The results showed that there are a lot of pissed off people in the UK and working out why would be a lot better for us than just assuming its down to the EU and sweeping any other reasons under the carpet. Instead it feels like a slow motion coup.

There was a healthy margin of victory - a majority of 1.3 million in the largest democratic exercise in the UK this century. The results showed that more people want to leave the EU than want to remain in it, hence why a sensible government should work toward enacting that decision.

Digging into the post-referendum polling further, it's astonishing to see how many of those who voted to Remain aren't exactly in love with the EU, either.

Arguing over money in the campaign is largely irrelevant. The spending limits* were made a mockery of when the government of the time spent £9 million on a piece of pro-EU campaign literature sent to every UK household. As for Cambridge Analytica, there were few complaints when Obama harvested Facebook data for his 2012 campaign (see below). Selective outrage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obama-digital-data-machine-facebook-election

*Spending limits are a complete joke anyway. They are routinely bypassed by the major parties at national and local elections, and they are rarely brought to task by the hopeless Electoral Commission. If spending limits are to remain, proper penalties and sweeping reforms must be brought in.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 11 May 2018, 2:35 pm

People didn't even know what they were bloody voting for. The whole thing is a complete farce as has been demonstrated by the government who don't have the faintest idea of what they're actually supposed to do.

by CaledonianCraig Fri 11 May 2018, 2:44 pm

Pr4wn wrote:People didn't even know what they were bloody voting for. The whole thing is a complete farce as has been demonstrated by the government who don't have the faintest idea of what they're actually supposed to do.

Exactly.

Yes got the greatest votes but break that down again and you get a whole different picture. Some voted yes but want to hold onto some of the benefits of being in the EU which would mean a customs union. Some wanted a clean break cutting all ties with the EU completely but some of those wanted to keep a soft border in Ireland. Therefore whatever happens a group of yes voters aren't going to get what they voted for.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 11 May 2018, 3:24 pm

For the right to claim that the majority want no customs union is just disingenuous.

by Duty281 Fri 11 May 2018, 3:57 pm

Pr4wn wrote:People didn't even know what they were bloody voting for.

I'm sorry that you find it difficult to grasp, but people voted to leave the EU and its assorted institutions.

This includes the customs union - hence why both sides argued about the merits of free trade during the campaign - and ending the UK's membership of the single market- again, hence why both sides argued about the pros and cons of it during the campaign.

by Duty281 Fri 11 May 2018, 4:01 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:People didn't even know what they were bloody voting for. The whole thing is a complete farce as has been demonstrated by the government who don't have the faintest idea of what they're actually supposed to do.

Exactly.

Yes got the greatest votes but break that down again and you get a whole different picture. Some voted yes but want to hold onto some of the benefits of being in the EU which would mean a customs union. Some wanted a clean break cutting all ties with the EU completely but some of those wanted to keep a soft border in Ireland. Therefore whatever happens a group of yes voters aren't going to get what they voted for.

So...just like every vote ever held in the history of democracy then? I could say:

Remain got 16 million votes, but break that down and you get a different picture. Some voted Remain but only because they were fearful of an economic shock. Some voted Remain because they support a United States of Europe. Some voted Remain but they still wanted sweeping reform of the EU. Therefore, whatever happens a group of Remain voters wouldn't get what they wanted had we voted to Remain.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 11 May 2018, 4:11 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:People didn't even know what they were bloody voting for.

I'm sorry that you find it difficult to grasp, but people voted to leave the EU and its assorted institutions.

This includes the customs union - hence why both sides argued about the merits of free trade during the campaign - and ending the UK's membership of the single market- again, hence why both sides argued about the pros and cons of it during the campaign.

No, they didn't. They voted to leave the EU. Nobody had a vote on the customs union, nobody had a vote on the single market. You're just as bad as they are.

by Duty281 Fri 11 May 2018, 4:22 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:People didn't even know what they were bloody voting for.

I'm sorry that you find it difficult to grasp, but people voted to leave the EU and its assorted institutions.

This includes the customs union - hence why both sides argued about the merits of free trade during the campaign - and ending the UK's membership of the single market- again, hence why both sides argued about the pros and cons of it during the campaign.

No, they didn't. They voted to leave the EU. Nobody had a vote on the customs union, nobody had a vote on the single market. You're just as bad as they are.

There are two types of nation that are members of the Single Market: members of the EU and members of EFTA. We voted to leave the EU, hence we severed our membership of the single market as well, as a consequence.

This is why we were told repeatedly - by Cameron, Osborne, Leadsom, Gove, Johnson etc. - that a vote to leave the EU would mean ending our membership of the single market.

Customs Union - similar thing. Hence why the Remain side argued for the benefits of our current customs union arrangement, and the Leave side the negatives.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 11 May 2018, 4:36 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:People didn't even know what they were bloody voting for.

I'm sorry that you find it difficult to grasp, but people voted to leave the EU and its assorted institutions.

This includes the customs union - hence why both sides argued about the merits of free trade during the campaign - and ending the UK's membership of the single market- again, hence why both sides argued about the pros and cons of it during the campaign.

No, they didn't. They voted to leave the EU. Nobody had a vote on the customs union, nobody had a vote on the single market. You're just as bad as they are.

There are two types of nation that are members of the Single Market: members of the EU and members of EFTA. We voted to leave the EU, hence we severed our membership of the single market as well, as a consequence.

This is why we were told repeatedly - by Cameron, Osborne, Leadsom, Gove, Johnson etc. - that a vote to leave the EU would mean ending our membership of the single market.

Customs Union - similar thing. Hence why the Remain side argued for the benefits of our current customs union arrangement, and the Leave side the negatives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY

The Leave side made it seem like the British public could have their cake and eat it, which it's now abundantly clear that they can't.

by CaledonianCraig Fri 11 May 2018, 4:47 pm

Yes that is the problem. Those canvassing for yes painted as rosy a picture as they could and easily befuddled voters voted yes without thinking of the consequences. To deny a proportion of yes voters fully understood the connotations is just wrong. And that can evidently been seen now as even MPs who voted yes are seeking clarifications.

I am ambivalent when it comes to Leave/Remain as can see both sides for it and against but there is no doubt people voted without knowing fully what they were voting for.

by Duty281 Fri 11 May 2018, 5:08 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:People didn't even know what they were bloody voting for.

I'm sorry that you find it difficult to grasp, but people voted to leave the EU and its assorted institutions.

This includes the customs union - hence why both sides argued about the merits of free trade during the campaign - and ending the UK's membership of the single market- again, hence why both sides argued about the pros and cons of it during the campaign.

No, they didn't. They voted to leave the EU. Nobody had a vote on the customs union, nobody had a vote on the single market. You're just as bad as they are.

There are two types of nation that are members of the Single Market: members of the EU and members of EFTA. We voted to leave the EU, hence we severed our membership of the single market as well, as a consequence.

This is why we were told repeatedly - by Cameron, Osborne, Leadsom, Gove, Johnson etc. - that a vote to leave the EU would mean ending our membership of the single market.

Customs Union - similar thing. Hence why the Remain side argued for the benefits of our current customs union arrangement, and the Leave side the negatives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xGt3QmRSZY

The Leave side made it seem like the British public could have their cake and eat it, which it's now abundantly clear that they can't.

Oh dear, not that thoroughly debunked video. laughing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9dKcjfeVTs

Try watching this instead:

https://youtu.be/dghdvVbtowM?t=1m43s

by **Pr4wn** Fri 11 May 2018, 6:25 pm

So different representatives of Leave have had completely different views on what the UK could or could not have had once leaving the EU then? So people didn't know what they were voting on?

Honestly, this is beyond parody.

by lostinwales Fri 11 May 2018, 6:29 pm

Duty281 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:Electoral Commission finds that Leave.EU broke spending rules and have fined them £70k.

They join Britain Stronger in Europe and the Lib Dems then.

Expenses rules really need to be updated. Not fit for purpose in today's world.

The overspend is a concern but the be all and end all. What is of greater concern is the source of the money in the first place, and the whole role of Cambridge Analytica. If there was a healthy margin of victory we could ignore all this but there was not.

Having said all that and (again) given the margin of the vote a sensible government in this position would have used the results as the starting point of the debate not the end. The results showed that there are a lot of pissed off people in the UK and working out why would be a lot better for us than just assuming its down to the EU and sweeping any other reasons under the carpet. Instead it feels like a slow motion coup.

There was a healthy margin of victory - a majority of 1.3 million in the largest democratic exercise in the UK this century. The results showed that more people want to leave the EU than want to remain in it, hence why a sensible government should work toward enacting that decision.

Digging into the post-referendum polling further, it's astonishing to see how many of those who voted to Remain aren't exactly in love with the EU, either.

Arguing over money in the campaign is largely irrelevant. The spending limits* were made a mockery of when the government of the time spent £9 million on a piece of pro-EU campaign literature sent to every UK household. As for Cambridge Analytica, there were few complaints when Obama harvested Facebook data for his 2012 campaign (see below). Selective outrage.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/feb/17/obama-digital-data-machine-facebook-election

*Spending limits are a complete joke anyway. They are routinely bypassed by the major parties at national and local elections, and they are rarely brought to task by the hopeless Electoral Commission. If spending limits are to remain, proper penalties and sweeping reforms must be brought in.

How can I be more clear. I'll describe in simple terms one aspect of what happened

This vote was a big deal It was also on a subject that few people understood. When it comes down to it the majority of the voters who voted leave have the attitude that we should leave the bits which don't affect them. And it is all too slowly becomming very clear that there are an awful lot of things that affect all of us that nobody really understood at the time.

Right. Because it was a big deal it should have been supranumery. I.e 2/3 vote to leave to go through. But instead they decided to run with it anyway. The gap was very small, relative to the number of voters.

I am not trying to undermine the vote that happened, I just think the response to it should have been different. Going Brexit under the current circumstances feels like just the kind of thing a few dumb facists or communist would want to do to avoid facing up to the problems of our country. Easier to make more by the looks of it.. Most importantly if May and Corbyn were so keen to run with this crap they should have got a plan together before triggering anything that commited us to a date.

The rest of your points are garbage. There is a reason why CA has gone down (only to be replaced by another identical company with the same people) while nobody has gone after Obama's efforts, and it is not just political correctness.

by Duty281 Fri 11 May 2018, 6:31 pm

Pr4wn wrote:So different representatives of Leave have had completely different views on what the UK could or could not have had once leaving the EU then? So people didn't know what they were voting on?

Honestly, this is beyond parody.

Yes, you are beyond parody.

The video you linked to shows quotes from a few Leave advocates taken out of context. This is remedied in the other video I provided.

One last time if it wasn't clear: Cameron, Osborne, Gove, Johnson, Leadsom, Britain Stronger in Europe and Vote Leave all said that a vote to leave the EU would mean ending our membership of the single market. I provided the reasoning for why earlier.

You can remain wilfully ignorant to this fact if you so choose. People knew what they were voting for.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 11 May 2018, 6:40 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:So different representatives of Leave have had completely different views on what the UK could or could not have had once leaving the EU then? So people didn't know what they were voting on?

Honestly, this is beyond parody.

Yes, you are beyond parody.

The video you linked to shows quotes from a few Leave advocates taken out of context. This is remedied in the other video I provided.

One last time if it wasn't clear: Cameron, Osborne, Gove, Johnson, Leadsom, Britain Stronger in Europe and Vote Leave all said that a vote to leave the EU would mean ending our membership of the single market. I provided the reasoning for why earlier.

You can remain wilfully ignorant to this fact if you so choose. People knew what they were voting for.

You're the one that's wilfully (sic) ignorant, chum. People had no idea what leaving the single market or customs union actually means. Heck, the main figurehead of the Leave vote, Farage, basically said that we could stay in the single market if we wanted. Boris Johnson in 2013 said that he wanted to stay in the single market. Liam Fox said that the exit would be seamless, that Britain would have no issues with getting a free trade deal with the EU, the US and the rest of the world.

Some suckers (you included, it seems) believed these snake oil salesmen and just knelt and swallowed everything that they unloaded.

Now, we come to the present situation where Brexit hasn't even started in earnest, the economy is slowing down already, nobody in government knows what they're doing at all and the UK is internationally seen as a complete joke.

by CaledonianCraig Fri 11 May 2018, 6:47 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:So different representatives of Leave have had completely different views on what the UK could or could not have had once leaving the EU then? So people didn't know what they were voting on?

Honestly, this is beyond parody.

Yes, you are beyond parody.

The video you linked to shows quotes from a few Leave advocates taken out of context. This is remedied in the other video I provided.

One last time if it wasn't clear: Cameron, Osborne, Gove, Johnson, Leadsom, Britain Stronger in Europe and Vote Leave all said that a vote to leave the EU would mean ending our membership of the single market. I provided the reasoning for why earlier.

You can remain wilfully ignorant to this fact if you so choose. People knew what they were voting for.

Sorry but just because a handful of people said it at one time does not mean every voter knew what they were voting for - from my experience they did not. I have spoken to plenty of people who voting yes on the assumption it would rid the UK of immigrants but had no idea it meant all trading ties would also be cut. Or I know of those who want to keep customs ties but at the time of voting yes never knew those would be lost. I have no doubt every one of us know people who are/were confused about what a yes vote result returned would fully mean.

Like lostinwales I am in no way trying to undermine the vote but just point out that it was a vote that a great deal of people voted on without a real, true knowledge of what they would fully get from it.

by Samo Fri 11 May 2018, 8:23 pm

So let me get this straight.

Pre-referendum it was called ‘Project Fear’ and we werent to listen to it.

Post-referendum its become the reality Remain warned about, and suddenly its ‘we knew that all along’.

You cant lose when you move the goal posts like that. Prawn was right. This is beyond parody.

by Ent Fri 11 May 2018, 9:08 pm

I doubt the majority of voters knew we were in a customs union or what it is and the implications for leaving.

Far to complex an issue to have had a referendum on, but here we are and the democratic process must be respected.

by Dave. Fri 11 May 2018, 10:24 pm

During the referendum, both sides were pretty clear Leave meant leaving Single Market and Customs Union.

Before the referendum, there was a not insignificant number of Leavers who wanted out of the CU and rather in EFTA and/or EEA. EFTA/EEA Leavers were drowned out a bit in the referendum.

You would struggle to find a Leaver, outside of John Mann, who wants to stay in a Customs Union.

Therefore, if Still Remainers were thinking logically, they'd be pushing EFTA and/or EEA membership alone. But alas no, they've went after the Hannan's of this world and his infamous Single Market interview, when that could have been the compromise, some sort of Swiss style EFTA. Same people now pushing EFTA were doing that last year, and are now pushing BOTH EFTA/EEA and CU, which together is staying in by the backdoor. Not a compromise. I do wonder what would happen if they dropped their CU stance.

And I certainly don't think its a cert that the Government loses a customs union vote, there are enough Labour Leavers to vote with the Government I feel.

by Ent Sat 12 May 2018, 1:29 am

Think 83 labour mps rebelled on an order to abstain on a customs union amendment.

Will he interesting to see how many would toe the party line in a parliamentary vote.

Corbyn is pushing a bespoke customs union/arrangement in which the uk will have a say (vote) in setting the rules, rather than just abiding by those the eu 27 set.

Sounds like a good idea but good luck getting it off the eu as it is having your cake and eating it.

by CaledonianCraig Sat 12 May 2018, 9:54 am

Dave. wrote:During the referendum, both sides were pretty clear Leave meant leaving Single Market and Customs Union.

Before the referendum, there was a not insignificant number of Leavers who wanted out of the CU and rather in EFTA and/or EEA. EFTA/EEA Leavers were drowned out a bit in the referendum.

You would struggle to find a Leaver, outside of John Mann, who wants to stay in a Customs Union.

Therefore, if Still Remainers were thinking logically, they'd be pushing EFTA and/or EEA membership alone. But alas no, they've went after the Hannan's of this world and his infamous Single Market interview, when that could have been the compromise, some sort of Swiss style EFTA. Same people now pushing EFTA were doing that last year, and are now pushing BOTH EFTA/EEA and CU, which together is staying in by the backdoor. Not a compromise. I do wonder what would happen if they dropped their CU stance.

And I certainly don't think its a cert that the Government loses a customs union vote, there are enough Labour Leavers to vote with the Government I feel.

The point is Dave who listened fully to the bull and bluster of the campaigning? Precious little. I work in a job where I have to give info out to passengers before they travel. Do they listen? Do they heck? Give them info on what to do but it goes unheeded. I am certain the same was the case here in the Brexit vote. It is like the signs you see up for Disabled Parking and a car parked there without Disabled Badge. Or a No Smoking sign up with someone smoking right next to it. People do not listen/heed warnings until it is too late. More fool them.

by lostinwales Mon 14 May 2018, 12:33 pm

Dave. wrote:During the referendum, both sides were pretty clear Leave meant leaving Single Market and Customs Union.

I can't remember details about CU and SM. At best the campaign was

We'll get 350m extra a week for the NHS
GIVE THIS TERRIBLE GOVERNMENT A GOOD KICKING
(oh and by the way we will leave the SM and CU)

And as for the Irish border, GFA, FOM for Brits to go to the EU, UK citizens in the EU, EU citizens in the UK, regulatory authorities, Gallileo, Euratom, Gibralter etc - nothing was spoken at all.

We can't ignore the vote, but using it for what will be a hugely damaging process purely to save face and keep the 'blame' on someone, anyone else just feels like a con, even ignoring the potential campaign illegalities.

2 years on it seems that the government, who should be responsible for all of this still don't have an idea as to where all this starts or ends, or what to do about any of it. They can't even agree on what kind of unacceptable CU-like deal they will propose to the the EU.

Every step this government has taken since the vote has been a wrong step. And every step they have taken the Labour leadership has either helped them with or turned a blind eye.

by SecretFly Mon 14 May 2018, 12:58 pm

You can't know what the final solution will be until it's there.

"What will the UK do??????!!!!"

Well who the hell knows? The thing doesn't happen until everybody agrees a solution. Anti-Brexiteers want all the answers about what the UK will look like Post-Brexit before anybody in either the UK or the rest of the European Empire (*ahem* sorry) - the socially inclusive wholesome-as-Hovis lovenicks of the EU can tell them. A new way is being negotiated at the moment.... that's the future. Nobody knows the future yet.

But one thing is for certain.... the cuddly Uncle - with the roving fingers - EU is terrified that the UK post-Brexit will not only work but flourish. So of course the propaganda amongst anti-Brexiteers both in Uk and outside is always that nobody in the UK knows what they are doing.... "stick with us lovely Blue Eurocrats! We know everything...we'll save yous from yourselves and your crappy Democratic system!!! Choose us Brussels bureaucratic mandarins to control your Banana shapes and Hoover power settings ...Please!!!!! We're on our way to becoming the New China! You know you want it! Who needs National Democracy? It's old fashioned. Get with the times. The only future is to be a happy working slave to the System. We'll do your thinking and voting for you!"

They're TERRIFIED that the stubborn and always rebellious UK, outside the guiding paternal embrace of Big Brother EU, will actually work.

I hope it works a blast and I'm wishing it good speed ahead Wink

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 14 May 2018, 2:10 pm

UK won't be out of Europe for long if it ever leaves.

May keeps kicking the can down the road because she is stook between soft and hard brexit..

by CaledonianCraig Mon 14 May 2018, 4:20 pm

Sorry but how on Earth can anyone have faith in this government negotiating a good deal. May has spent months trying to cobble together a customs deal that morphed from customs union that has morphed again into something else. Meanwhile, her Foreign Secretary is on US TV calling any customs deal a joke. And to think these are the rabble charged with negotiating Brexit. God help us.

by Samo Mon 14 May 2018, 6:43 pm

The fact that a mostly pro-leave government STILL cant come to an agreement is a bad sign.

Theres no way to make brexit work without voiding the GFA, and no one wants to be the one responsible for that.

by lostinwales Tue 15 May 2018, 5:00 pm

SecretFly wrote:You can't know what the final solution will be until it's there.

"What will the UK do??????!!!!"

Well who the hell knows? The thing doesn't happen until everybody agrees a solution. Anti-Brexiteers want all the answers about what the UK will look like Post-Brexit before anybody in either the UK or the rest of the European Empire (*ahem* sorry) - the socially inclusive wholesome-as-Hovis lovenicks of the EU can tell them. A new way is being negotiated at the moment.... that's the future. Nobody knows the future yet.

But one thing is for certain.... the cuddly Uncle - with the roving fingers - EU is terrified that the UK post-Brexit will not only work but flourish. So of course the propaganda amongst anti-Brexiteers both in Uk and outside is always that nobody in the UK knows what they are doing.... "stick with us lovely Blue Eurocrats! We know everything...we'll save yous from yourselves and your crappy Democratic system!!! Choose us Brussels bureaucratic mandarins to control your Banana shapes and Hoover power settings ...Please!!!!! We're on our way to becoming the New China! You know you want it! Who needs National Democracy? It's old fashioned. Get with the times. The only future is to be a happy working slave to the System. We'll do your thinking and voting for you!"

They're TERRIFIED that the stubborn and always rebellious UK, outside the guiding paternal embrace of Big Brother EU, will actually work.

I hope it works a blast and I'm wishing it good speed ahead

There is no evidence that the EU is terrified at all. There are some concerns over balancing the books of course. In general things seem to have focused the minds of the 27 remaining countries on how much the EU is worth to them.

Not completely sure but believe the banana story can be traced back to some lying Poopie of a journalist, who eventually lost his job over making stuff up. Not sure what has happened to him since but I think I heard that he was on US TV the other day trying to sell some kind of deal to Trump.

by lostinwales Tue 15 May 2018, 5:06 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Sorry but how on Earth can anyone have faith in this government negotiating a good deal. May has spent months trying to cobble together a customs deal that morphed from customs union that has morphed again into something else. Meanwhile, her Foreign Secretary is on US TV calling any customs deal a joke. And to think these are the rabble charged with negotiating Brexit. God help us.

I heard an interesting story about the recent actions of the Lords. I'd love to get confirmation.

Anyway it goes something like this. Parliament can overrule the lords but need an act of parliament to do so. Such acts can only be introduced at the start of a parliamentry session. Now for some reason the current session has been extended to 2 years (now I remember - it is to give the government more time to feck up Brexit).

What that means is that parliament cannot overturn the lords rulings before we are due to leave the EU.....

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 16 May 2018, 2:01 pm

lostinwales wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Sorry but how on Earth can anyone have faith in this government negotiating a good deal. May has spent months trying to cobble together a customs deal that morphed from customs union that has morphed again into something else. Meanwhile, her Foreign Secretary is on US TV calling any customs deal a joke. And to think these are the rabble charged with negotiating Brexit. God help us.

I heard an interesting story about the recent actions of the Lords. I'd love to get confirmation.

Anyway it goes something like this. Parliament can overrule the lords but need an act of parliament to do so. Such acts can only be introduced at the start of a parliamentry session. Now for some reason the current session has been extended to 2 years (now I remember - it is to give the government more time to feck up Brexit).

What that means is that parliament cannot overturn the lords rulings before we are due to leave the EU.....

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 01 Jun 2018, 2:29 pm

So the latest is a NI buffer zone ....Because we can't have a border...Against GF agreement..

So we will have a border but it isn't a border because it is called a buffer zone..

Ok..

by CaledonianCraig Sat 02 Jun 2018, 5:57 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So the latest is a NI buffer zone ....Because we can't have a border...Against GF agreement..

So we will have a border but it isn't a border because it is called a buffer zone..

Ok..

When is a border not a border? When a desperate Tory calls it a buffer zone in an attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes.

by SecretFly Sat 02 Jun 2018, 10:42 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So the latest is a NI buffer zone ....Because we can't have a border...Against GF agreement..

So we will have a border but it isn't a border because it is called a buffer zone..

Ok..

When is a border not a border? When a desperate Tory calls it a buffer zone in an attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes.

When the SNP keep going to Westminster to talk up Scottish Independence?

I'd suggest the best place to be independent is from your own couch in your own living room.

by Samo Sun 03 Jun 2018, 3:35 am

The amount of back-peddling the Brexit mob are doing right now Im amazed the Island hasnt been pushed up into the arctic circle. Its a bloody embarassment.

by lostinwales Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:12 pm

Samo wrote:The amount of back-peddling the Brexit mob are doing right now Im amazed the Island hasnt been pushed up into the arctic circle. Its a bloody embarassment.

It has been a bloody embarrassment since the day Davy boy thought it would be a convenient route to shutting up the Eurosceptics in his own party.

by **Pr4wn** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:So the latest is a NI buffer zone ....Because we can't have a border...Against GF agreement..

So we will have a border but it isn't a border because it is called a buffer zone..

Ok..

When is a border not a border? When a desperate Tory calls it a buffer zone in an attempt to pull the wool over people's eyes.

When the SNP keep going to Westminster to talk up Scottish Independence?

I'd suggest the best place to be independent is from your own couch in your own living room.

What does this have to do with anything? Truth hurts, eh?

by SecretFly Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:10 pm

Nice to see you, Pr4wn, after quite a time.

The old guard dog instincts are alive and well in your uld 'any opinion as long as it agrees with mine' world view.

Enjoy your summer Cool

by **Pr4wn** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:25 pm

The old "refusing to answer the question and obfuscating my way into sounding smart" habits are also still alive and well.

by SecretFly Mon 04 Jun 2018, 8:44 pm

What a happy bunch the Love-is-all-you-Need generation of Conformity Before Individuality Movement is. Wink

Yes, the UK will disintegrate as a viable state Three days after Brexit finally happens. Everyone knows this is true. Just like New Zealand, that never made it as a viable Nation either because it was never in the Roman Empire innit!

Ya just gotta be part of an Empire! All the best fashion houses have one. It isn't cool being a lone hero no more. Hell, even the super heroes have to pile themselves into the one movie now to save the world. Once all that it took was a dysfunctional, depressive loner in a bat suit. Romance is dead. Long live the grey suit of conformity!

by **JuliusHMarx** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 9:35 pm

Surely voting Leave is conforming - to the majority.

by **superflyweight** Tue 05 Jun 2018, 9:20 am

SecretFly wrote:What a happy bunch the Love-is-all-you-Need generation of Conformity Before Individuality Movement is.

Yes, the UK will disintegrate as a viable state Three days after Brexit finally happens. Everyone knows this is true. Just like New Zealand, that never made it as a viable Nation either because it was never in the Roman Empire innit!

Ya just gotta be part of an Empire! All the best fashion houses have one. It isn't cool being a lone hero no more. Hell, even the super heroes have to pile themselves into the one movie now to save the world. Once all that it took was a dysfunctional, depressive loner in a bat suit. Romance is dead. Long live the grey suit of conformity!

Speaking from personal experience?

by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 12 Jun 2018, 12:39 pm

A Minister has just resigned over Brexit and how it is being handled..

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 13 Jun 2018, 9:45 am

More fudging by the Govt yesterday..

Happy to admit that I'm not the most objective poster but it seems this Govt's sole purpose is to think of ways they can stay in power rather than attempt to fix....The railways...The NHS..Standard of living crisis..Homelessness etc..

Not the time for this crap....Whether Con or Lab wins another Election we need one so we can have an administration with a modicum of power.

Nothing is getting addressed and too many people are suffering..

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 20 Jun 2018, 8:49 am

Round 2 for the "Meaningful" Brexit bill..

Govt thinks it can win...Tory rebels think they can..

All will depend on Labour Brexiteers...Hoey..Field..Stringer and Mann.

May loses my guess is she will be gone in weeks...My guess is she won't lose..

BMG Lab 41...Con 38.... First Labour lead in two months
.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 20 Jun 2018, 10:16 am

Talk is that a number of Labour MPs will vote to back the bill than Tory rebels will vote against it so it will get passed.

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed 20 Jun 2018, 11:35 am

EU says we can't still be part of the European Arrest Warrant. David Davis says he still wants to be part of he European Arrest Warrant. EU says, ummm, you do realise that you voted to leave the EU? Did you not realise what that meant?

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