Scotland Autumn Test postmortem and 6N look ahead

by **RDW** Mon 27 Nov 2017, 7:57 am

First topic message reminder :

2017 Autumn Test Results

Scotland 44 - Samoa 38 Smile

Tries - Hogg, Jones, McInally (2), Dunbar, Horne

Scotland 17 - New Zealand 22 Crying or Very sad

Tries - J Gray, Jones

Scotland 53 - Australia 24 Yahoo

McGuigan (2), Price, Maitland, J Gray, Jones, Barclay, McInally

6N fixtures

Wales V Scotland
Scotland V France

Scotland V England

Ireland V Scotland
Italy V Scotland

by **RDW** Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:15 pm

I think against England and France in particular we need to go for extra bulk at 8, especially when we have relatively small flankers in Barclay and Watson. If you pick Wilson (or even Ashe, who isn’t a bulky 8 compared to Strauss, CDP and Denton) then we’re going to be underpowered in the pack. We really struggled for physicality in France last year (not to mention all the injuries) and you’ve got to front up physically against the English beasts.

I also don’t think it is a big deal to sacrifice skill for power at 8 – with the likes of McInally, both Grays, Toolis, Gilchrist, Barclay etc forming the core of the pack there are plenty good ball players in there already.

by EWT Spoons Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:21 pm

George Carlin wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:I’ve not seen too much of Denton since his move to Worchester, but one of the biggest issues he had at Edinburgh (and Scotland) was his inability to pass the ball. It was something he called out as a weakness himself as well, preferring to take contact rather than risk moving the ball on. As I say I’ve not seen him play much since then, but if he’s not improved on that, then I think he would struggle to get into the Scotland team, given Toonie likes his players to be able to pass and keep the ball moving. Organised Chaos I believe it’s called.

With Ashe getting back to fitness, CDP finding form, Wilson Toonie’s favourite and Bradbury hopefully finding form again, it could be difficult for Dents to make the team at 8. Not saying never, but there is a lot more competition there now than when he first broke into the team.
Still find it amazing that Strauss is not considered by most people to be the incumbent. He was injured for the last tournament and is probably the strongest carrier we have.

I have him at some distance ahead of kids like Ashe and Bradbury and much better tested than CDP (how has he been playing this season?). What is the view of the mob on this?

I excluded him from my list as I don't think Toonie rates him, given he was at Glasgow when Strauss was moved on, also I don't think he has ever stepped up at International level to recreate the form he showed at Glasgow, with the possible exception of the France game.

I wouldn't rule him out by any stretch, but I just don't think he's first or even second choice at this stage. However, he probably did deserve to be on my list ahead of say Bradbury.

by **George Carlin** Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:23 pm

Yes, I can see 6. Barclay 7. Watson 8. Strauss being our optimal power/skill combination.

Will Richie Gray be fit, does anyone know?

by **RDW** Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:25 pm

Richie returned last week and now has two 80 minute games under his belt - if he doesn't pick up an injury he should be fighting fit for the 6N.

by tigertattie Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:31 pm

Taylor

Don't get me wrong BigGee, I very much think that Taylor has lots to offer Scotland yet. Aside from his injury woes, he could suffer from Paterson Syndrome though and we might see him deployed on the bench as the utility sub covering 12, 13 and 11/14.

What we do need to be careful of is that Dunbar is not getting any younger and seems to be limping in every game so Taylor could well be called upon (even though he is a year older than Dunbar)

Strauss

Sorry GC, I've jsut never rated Strauss at international level. Other than his heroic performance against the EDITED, I've not seen him take his club form into the national team. I think international rugby is just that half a step too quick for him and he gets taken out of the game unless you get dragged into an arm wrestle (which isn't Scotland's game plan these days)

Visser

How do you solve a problem like McMisser? If the man could tackle he'd walk into the Scotland squad right now! Going forward he has no regard for his welfare! Head down and he heads off at full speed and isn't afraid to take the hit. For some reason he just can't do it when he isn't the one with the ball!

by EWT Spoons Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:38 pm

Off topic, but this is a nice situation to be in. We’re all debating about who’s best based upon their various strengths and what they bring to the team, rather than the years of “he’s less cr*p than him so should be selected”. It’s a nice change and shows we have some depth for the first time in years in Scottish rugby.

by **RDW** Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:40 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Off topic, but this is a nice situation to be in. We’re all debating about who’s best based upon their various strengths and what they bring to the team, rather than the years of “he’s less cr*p than him so should be selected”. It’s a nice change and shows we have some depth for the first time in years in Scottish rugby.

Apart from the front row... Sad

by tigertattie Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:44 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Off topic, but this is a nice situation to be in. We’re all debating about who’s best based upon their various strengths and what they bring to the team, rather than the years of “he’s less cr*p than him so should be selected”. It’s a nice change and shows we have some depth for the first time in years in Scottish rugby.

oh I get ya!

Dunbar or Taylor at centre - well one is better at this than the other but the other is better at that than the other

Morrision or Henderson at centre - well one is horrendous at this while the other is even worse at that!

I've said it before, but we really are just a No 8 away form being a very very good team! Sure I'd like another option at 10 if Finn is having an off day, but in each position we're pretty much grand at first choice pick. We're just lacking a Billy V or a Kieran Reid

by tigertattie Mon 08 Jan 2018, 12:52 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:Off topic, but this is a nice situation to be in. We’re all debating about who’s best based upon their various strengths and what they bring to the team, rather than the years of “he’s less cr*p than him so should be selected”. It’s a nice change and shows we have some depth for the first time in years in Scottish rugby.

Apart from the front row...

We do have depth at front row! They are just all currently cabbaged Sad

I don't mind it too much as it forces you to try the untested. Had Dickenson/Sutherland/Dell not been injured then Edinburgh and Scotland would not know what Marfo could do!

Come the next World Cup, we'll have developed a fair bit of depth and have options in many positions. ('cept No 8)

by reallybored Mon 08 Jan 2018, 1:06 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Off topic, but this is a nice situation to be in. We’re all debating about who’s best based upon their various strengths and what they bring to the team, rather than the years of “he’s less cr*p than him so should be selected”. It’s a nice change and shows we have some depth for the first time in years in Scottish rugby.

It's fantastic and I think the SRU deserve credit for the way in which they've developed our player pool.

There's great competition across the park and some good players are going to miss out at lock, back-row, centre & winger.

by Hazel Sapling Mon 08 Jan 2018, 1:20 pm

Visser has been making his tackles though. Seymour is off form and needs to prove it before he should be in the 23. Visser is playing really well in an attacking sense and has been solid in defense. He is playing at Quins that means he is off the radar a bit.

Strauss may suffer from being in the same position as Visser except I am not sure how he is playing. If he comes back from injury to have 2-3 big games, I would rather see him get in somewhere than Denton (defensively suspect), Wilson (crocked) or Bradbury (hit and miss). CDP would be a good bench option for the last 20 if we want more power (taking off Watson) or maintain mobility (taking off Strauss or whoever the 8 is).

by **BigGee** Mon 08 Jan 2018, 1:34 pm

Strauss is injured again, 3-4 weeks out for a shoulder.

He seems to have been solid if not spectacular for Sale, certainly not making an overwhelming case to get back in.

For me if we are looking for a big ball carrying brute atm, it is between CDP and Denton. Wilson is not that player, though he may still play in another role and Ashe has not strung enough games together to really show us what he can do.

I agree with the others that Bradbury is nowhere near the squad atm, let alone the team.

by tigertattie Mon 08 Jan 2018, 2:28 pm

How long is Wilson out for?

He's a grafter but he's not got the x factor. To me he is very much more of a 6 than an 8 but hey ho. If he is out for a fair while then this really does give someone an opportunity at 8 to put themselves in the window and maybe even play their way into the shirt!

by **BigGee** Mon 08 Jan 2018, 2:45 pm

tigertattie wrote:How long is Wilson out for?

He's a grafter but he's not got the x factor. To me he is very much more of a 6 than an 8 but hey ho. If he is out for a fair while then this really does give someone an opportunity at 8 to put themselves in the window and maybe even play their way into the shirt!

Touch and go for the first couple of rounds, at best will be fit, but short on match fitness. I expect he will get a run out or two for Glasgow first up before he comes into contention.

by EWT Spoons Mon 08 Jan 2018, 3:02 pm

Decent breakdown of the forward options available here from Scottish Rugby Blog

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2018/01/state-nation-forwards/

Rory Balwin of the Scottish Rugby Blog wrote:Let’s get the bad news out of the way. If the Six Nations started next week, we’d be struggling up front.

Even when it does start, we’ll still be struggling. But you have to pick someone…

Props

Since he took over in June, these are the props that Gregor Townsend has picked in match day squads: Allan Dell, Gordon Reid, WP Nel, Alex Allan, Zander Fagerson, Darryl Marfo, Jamie Bhatti and Simon Berghan. Swap Marfo and Bhatti for Jon Welsh then you have the 7 strong prop group from Vern’s last Six Nations squad. I think we can agree that the times for calling Al Dickinson the first choice loosehead are some distance in the past. When does “injury crisis” become “that’s how life is now”? Even from that (now established) group, Dell, Nel, Fagerson and Marfo are all injured.

The main source of the prop crisis is via Edinburgh, where Cockers has a very bare cupboard indeed. Before last week, Glasgow’s Jamie Bhatti and Zander Fagerson were the two in the driving seat – and Glasgow at least have non-Scots backup in Kebble and Halanukonuka. Edinburgh’s Murray McCallum (uncapped) has made strides with every game under Cockerill and can play both sides; he looked very solid against the Kings on Friday. Alex Allan has just 4 caps, and D’Arcy Rae is also a possibility having trained with Scotland before. If Rory Sutherland stays fit he’ll be right in the mix – he sat out the Kings game on Friday night but has played recently.

The other clear issue is that most of those guys are modern, dynamic ball-carrying types or just plain inexperienced. There aren’t that many old-school scrummagers of the type who become more important when you are packing down against hardened and experienced Six Nations packs. Even with Toony’s high-speed ChaosPlus we’ll need a few of those to avoid leaking penalties at the set-piece.

Marfo saw a back specialist recently and there is no word on recovery times for him or Dell. WP Nel broke his arm against Samoa and was quoted at a minimum of 12 weeks absence which runs right to the end of the month. Unlikely he’ll be ready for the first two games – at best. I bang on about Zander’s ill-discipline a lot but he is definitely maturing and would have proven very influential in the next 2-3 months – but then came the bizarre foot injury that kept him out against Zebre. He’ll probably be in the squad at some point, but could now be looking at sitting out as many as the first three games.

As a result, don’t be surprised if any “old” stagers like Gordon Reid (London Irish) or Moray Low (Exeter) are called up. Another possibility is Kyle Traynor who has started games for Leicester this season but mostly in the Cup. His Premiership time amounts to 17 minutes from the bench across 4 matches.

It is Jon Welsh who is the most due for a recall, having started all 12 of fifth-placed Newcastle’s Premiership games so far this season. His experience – and form – are something Scotland badly need up front to support the efforts elsewhere. We can’t avoid the scrum forever and he should now be a certainty.

Having just a couple off the injured list by mid-tournament could give Scotland a huge boost, as will the return of Simon Berghan after the opening weekend. This is a depth tournament; 3½ fit props isn’t going to cut it. But after the autumn, it would be a bitter pill to end a tournament we have such hopes for with a much stronger squad than at the beginning. Nowhere do we need Toony’s June-November ability to fashion a Scotland team that plays the same regardless of personnel more than up front…

Squad (7): Rory Sutherland, Jamie Bhatti, Alex Allan, Gordon Reid, Jon Welsh, Simon Berghan, Murray McCallum.
Out: Al Dickinson, WP Nel, Darryl Marfo, Allan Dell, Zander Fagerson.

(Squad position numbers based on previous 6N squad).

Hooker

Things are little better in the middle of the front row, where right now Stuart McInally is the man some distance ahead of his competitors and in the form of his life. Fraser Brown has this week been rested indefinitely due to ongoing concussion issues; he might not see the rest of the season never mind the Six Nations, and we wish him all the best.

Brown is surely the first second choice if he is fit to play but things get trickier after that. Ross “all the caps” Ford is recovering from a pectoral injury, with a 4 month layoff predicted in November that could see him out into March. Although like Pat MacArthur he’s a bit late in his career, Edinburgh’s Neil Cochrane is not far behind having trained in the autumn while Glasgow’s George Turner will surely be on the shortlist. He’ll only have the two European games to play himself into form after he, like Berghan, serves a ban. With Brown causing untold damage in the Calcutta Cup last time, the last thing Scotland needs is a front row with a rash streak so we hope he can control that frustration.

Squad (3): Stuart McInally, George Turner, Neil Cochrane.
Out: Ross Ford, Fraser Brown.

Second Row

This area is usually pretty easy, and it remains so. Jonny Gray and Ben Toolis walk in; Richie Gray and Grant Gilchrist are fit (Gilcho even has form now too) so they’re in too, although Richie is short of games. The only debate is on the fifth backup spot, which would go to Scott Cummings in the absence of Tim Swinson who is recovering from hand surgery. Cummings picked up a hand injury of his own last week, and is also expected to be out for “up to 8 weeks”. Lewis Carmichael and Fraser Mackenzie are the next most likely candidates now that Anton Bresler has left for Worcester, lapsing his Scottish residency qualification with a squad call-up but no cap. So far Cummings is ahead of them all in terms of his play. You might actually see Townsend take 4 locks and, say, Rob Harley as cover to spare Edinburgh who will be left short there too.

Squad (5): Jonny Gray, Richie Gray, Grant Gilchrist, Ben Toolis, Lewis Carmichael.
Out: Tim Swinson, Scott Cummings, Anton Bresler.

Back Row

Another easy bit: the actual team will be John Barclay (capt) and Hamish Watson, plus AN Other. Picking that “other”, plus a backup on the bench is where it gets tricky though; you have to make sure that Scotland can retain the dynamism from the autumn even with a replacement or two. As we’ve already seen, the pack could be severely makeshift in some areas but they are going to need to perform to give that backline a chance. So mass experimentation could be unlikely here but there are still some names worth considering.

How about Luke Hamilton plus Watson and Barclay? Will former Welsh U20 Hamilton – who impressed during his first cap but has not started loads for the Tigers – fancy a crack at Wales in Cardiff? You can bet on it. Wales could be very depleted in the back row (and will wish Hamilton wasn’t now Scottish or they might have capped him) so Barclay at Number 8 might work better than it would against, say, France or England.

Sale’s Josh Strauss is out for 3-4 weeks with a shoulder injury, so a call-up for him is unlikely. The same probably goes for David Denton and Mitch Eadie, at underperforming Worcester and Northampton respectively. Denton is a tricky one, as despite Worcester woes he has scored 3 tries from 9 games and is reportedly hitting some form at last. London Irish are doing even worse but Vern Cotter favourite Blair Cowan tops the Premiership for turnovers and offloads. Might either be due a recall?

Closer to home the question is: is it too early for Matt Fagerson or Adam Ashe, just back from injury? With stalwart Ryan Wilson injured (ankle), Rob Harley may find a place again and Cornell du Preez did better than expected in the Autumn, but Ashe, Fagerson or Magnus Bradbury would be seen as more forward-thinking options. Jamie Ritchie has been superb for Edinburgh and if any of the tyros are getting a call-up it should be him.

John Hardie should be back playing for Edinburgh by the game on the 3rd but may need time to get his head right and there’s no word if Toony will even consider him following the off-field ban. Let us hope a return to form makes that an easier decision.

Squad (7): John Barclay (capt), Hamish Watson, Cornell du Preez, Luke Hamilton, Jamie Ritchie, Rob Harley, David Denton.
Out: Ryan Wilson, Josh Strauss, John Hardie, Adam Ashe.

Up next: The Backs

by reallybored Mon 08 Jan 2018, 3:50 pm

I don't think Du Preez deserves a place, he doesn't do enough for me.

Against the Kings:

Carries - 9
Metres - 10
Tackles - 5

Compared to Watson

Carries - 15
Metres - 18
Tackles - 12

Or Bradbury

Carries - 9
Metres - 18
Tackles - 5

by **BigGee** Mon 08 Jan 2018, 4:20 pm

reallybored wrote:I don't think Du Preez deserves a place, he doesn't do enough for me.

Against the Kings:

Carries - 9
Metres - 10
Tackles - 5

Compared to Watson

Carries - 15
Metres - 18
Tackles - 12

Or Bradbury

Carries - 9
Metres - 18
Tackles - 5

Probably not the best game to judge it on to be fair. A truly awful night with a soap like ball and everybody struggling to stay upright.

The forwards did well collectively but no real standouts.

I would like to see CDP step it up against better opposition such as SF this weekend if he wants the shirt.

by EWT Spoons Mon 08 Jan 2018, 4:35 pm

BigGee wrote:
reallybored wrote:I don't think Du Preez deserves a place, he doesn't do enough for me.

Against the Kings:

Carries - 9
Metres - 10
Tackles - 5

Compared to Watson

Carries - 15
Metres - 18
Tackles - 12

Or Bradbury

Carries - 9
Metres - 18
Tackles - 5

Probably not the best game to judge it on to be fair. A truly awful night with a soap like ball and everybody struggling to stay upright.

The forwards did well collectively but no real standouts.

I would like to see CDP step it up against better opposition such as SF this weekend if he wants the shirt.

Considering how seriously Stade are treating the challenge cup, having already lost to Krasny away and getting run close at home by them, I’m not sure how much better the Stade team will be. Very Happy

by reallybored Mon 08 Jan 2018, 4:36 pm

Has Ashe got time to play himself into a starting shirt?

by **RDW** Mon 08 Jan 2018, 4:39 pm

reallybored wrote:Has Ashe got time to play himself into a starting shirt?

He's back fit now so don't see why not - as long as he is in the Euro squad.

by **BigGee** Mon 08 Jan 2018, 4:41 pm

SF could potentially still qualify if they win both games well. They came from nowhere to win the whole thing last year, so I would not completely right them off.

It is Edinburgh game to lose though and if they win this week, they will likely win both legs.

by EWT Spoons Mon 08 Jan 2018, 4:46 pm

BigGee wrote:SF could potentially still qualify if they win both games well. They came from nowhere to win the whole thing last year, so I would not completely right them off.

It is Edinburgh game to lose though and if they win this week, they will likely win both legs.

You are of course right, I just can't see them taking a huge interest now, but you never know.

by EWT Spoons Mon 08 Jan 2018, 11:38 pm

Apparently Allan Dell is due back at the end of the month. Probably not soon enough for the 6 nations, but certainly helps Edinburgh.

by **George Carlin** Tue 09 Jan 2018, 4:49 am

I nearly chundered when I read that SR Blog article and the words 'Kyle Traynor' appeared. Please god no.

by **RDW** Tue 09 Jan 2018, 7:21 am

George Carlin wrote:I nearly chundered when I read that SR Blog article and the words 'Kyle Traynor' appeared. Please god no.

He must have improved as s player if Leicester were interested in him!

by **RDW** Tue 09 Jan 2018, 9:29 am

Cockerill has given a bit of an update on the Edinburgh injury situation:

Dickinson - wouldn't give a date but he is 'hoping' he will make a return

Dell - Should return end of February

Marfo - has a disc problem in his back, seeing a specialist. Will definitely miss the first two rounds

Sutherland - due to return this week

So not very positive at all other than Sutherland!

by tigertattie Tue 09 Jan 2018, 9:38 am

Fingers crossed that Dickenson can get back into Rugby. He's been out for so long now though and he's no spring chicken so I really can't see him getting back into the Scotland squad but I'd really love it if he did. At the minimum he deserves to actually play rugby again before retiring

Good news on Sutherland and of the guys currently cabbaged he's probably (arguably) the most talented so we're half lucky to hopefully have him back.

Marfo is arguably the incumbent but we simply can't afford to rush him back, even for the 6Ns.

by TJ Tue 09 Jan 2018, 9:42 am

EWT Spoons wrote:Off topic, but this is a nice situation to be in. We’re all debating about who’s best based upon their various strengths and what they bring to the team, rather than the years of “he’s less cr*p than him so should be selected”. It’s a nice change and shows we have some depth for the first time in years in Scottish rugby.

Yup - I have been following scottish rugby for decades and its so nice and unusual to be debating who to leave out rather than who to put in

by **RDW** Tue 09 Jan 2018, 9:53 am

Dickinson has been away so long that there is no guarantee he'll be as effective a player as he used to be, and not just due to the state of his body. John Welsh said in an interview recently that whenever he's had to fill in at loosehead for Newcastle his teammates have laughed at him because his binding was so old fashioned, and he'd only moved from LH a couple of seasons ago.

Dickinson will find that the game has moved on a lot since he last played regularly so it will be a massive challenge for him to get back up to speed. To be fair even Al Dickinson working at 90% of his previous ability is still a real asset to Scottish rugby, but there's no guarantee he'll get there!

by EWT Spoons Tue 09 Jan 2018, 11:09 am

I can’t see Dickinson playing again, as much as I hope to be proven wrong, the word from a few players is he’s done. I know RC has come out and said ”hopefully” he’ll be back, but it’s hardly a positive message is it. I mean when giving an injury update on players, coaches don’t normally say “hopefully they’ll play again”.

I know this sounds pretty negative, and I hope I’m wrong and he comes back making a full recovery.

Does anyone know how Jack Cosgrove is getting on following his move to Bristol? He always looked pretty capable when he was at Edinburgh, but had a lot of competition for places.

by **BigGee** Tue 09 Jan 2018, 12:22 pm

The other tip that Cockers had for inclusion in the Scotland squad was Kinghorn and it is hard to argue with that.

He does seem to have cut out the errors that were plaguing his game at the end of last season and the beginning of this one and he looks by far the most potent back in the Edinburgh line up. I think he is leading the Pro 14 stats for yards gained, he does seem electric ball in hand.

He does seem to be the natural back up to Hoggy and can cover wing as well as FB. Jacko is a safe pair of hands but Kinghorn has the x factor. It is surely a question of when and not if he comes into the squad and gets capped.

by **RDW** Tue 09 Jan 2018, 12:33 pm

The ideal scenario would be Kinghorn gets called into the squad for experience but Hogg is fit for the whole 6N - Kinghorn would then be given his chance in the summer tour against USA and Canada (I'd rest Hogg).

The 6N is a brutal environment to blood a young fullback - one of the most exposed positions on the field.

by **BigGee** Tue 09 Jan 2018, 12:50 pm

Hogg will play FB as long as he is fit, but I think I would play Kinghorn ahead of Jacko or Maitland if he is not.

He seems to have an abundance of confidence for a young man and I can't see it phasing him, a bit like it was when Hoggy came into the side in fact. He looked to the manor born.

by **RDW** Tue 09 Jan 2018, 12:56 pm

They’ve got the same kind of skill set – both have an electric break and a huge boot. Hogg probably has better acceleration but Kinghorn has better flat out pace I reckon (a function of their body types). Kinghorn’s defence certainly needs work and for such a tall person he needs to dominate more in the air – plenty for him to work on. Kinghorn certainly looks every bit as exciting as Hogg did when he was young though, if not even more so given he made his debut as an 18 year old and I think Hogg was 19 when he first played for Glasgow. If he develops at the same rate that Hogg has he’ll be some player!

I remember speaking to some of the guys in the Scotland under 18s squad when they were training with him and they said everyone knew he was going to be a special player. Interestingly then he was playing 10.

by tigertattie Tue 09 Jan 2018, 1:14 pm

Kinghorn has an unprecedented ability to just ghost passed defenders. He doesn't look like he is moving that fast and it's not like a Hogg zig zag run. It's just a big gentle arcing run and the defenders just don't seem to close him down.

really is great to watch when he gets the chance

by **George Carlin** Tue 09 Jan 2018, 2:10 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Dickinson has been away so long that there is no guarantee he'll be as effective a player as he used to be, and not just due to the state of his body. John Welsh said in an interview recently that whenever he's had to fill in at loosehead for Newcastle his teammates have laughed at him because his binding was so old fashioned, and he'd only moved from LH a couple of seasons ago.

Dickinson will find that the game has moved on a lot since he last played regularly so it will be a massive challenge for him to get back up to speed. To be fair even Al Dickinson working at 90% of his previous ability is still a real asset to Scottish rugby, but there's no guarantee he'll get there!

You'll be telling me next that taking a firm grip on your opposite number's test!cles is no longer allowed.

by IanBru Tue 09 Jan 2018, 3:10 pm

George Carlin wrote:
You'll be telling me next that taking a firm grip on your opposite number's test!cles is no longer allowed.

I did that in chambers yesterday. The District Judge was not amused, but he did award me costs.

by tigertattie Tue 09 Jan 2018, 3:14 pm

IanBru wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
You'll be telling me next that taking a firm grip on your opposite number's test!cles is no longer allowed.
I did that in chambers yesterday. The District Judge was not amused, but he did award me costs.

Such a Lawyer's joke that one!

Where's FES these days? He'd have loved that!

by jimbopip Tue 09 Jan 2018, 4:36 pm

IanBru wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
You'll be telling me next that taking a firm grip on your opposite number's test!cles is no longer allowed.
I did that in chambers yesterday. The District Judge was not amused, but he did award me costs.

Awarded you costs? How much did the other lawyer charge you then?

by tigertattie Wed 10 Jan 2018, 9:54 am

oh dear, the lawyers are arguing amoungst themselves

by **George Carlin** Wed 10 Jan 2018, 10:47 am

tigertattie wrote:oh dear, the lawyers are arguing ~~amoungst~~ amongst themselves

Fifty quid please.

by tigertattie Wed 10 Jan 2018, 12:56 pm

just take it out of that £100 you're due me!

by lostinwales Wed 10 Jan 2018, 1:35 pm

jimbopip wrote:
IanBru wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
You'll be telling me next that taking a firm grip on your opposite number's test!cles is no longer allowed.
I did that in chambers yesterday. The District Judge was not amused, but he did award me costs.
Awarded you costs? How much did the other lawyer charge you then?

Who charged who....

by tigertattie Wed 10 Jan 2018, 2:17 pm

lostinwales wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
IanBru wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
You'll be telling me next that taking a firm grip on your opposite number's test!cles is no longer allowed.
I did that in chambers yesterday. The District Judge was not amused, but he did award me costs.
Awarded you costs? How much did the other lawyer charge you then?

Who charged who....

What is the name of the guy on second base

by MacKnocked-on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 3:04 pm

Just read a Scotsman article by Iain Morrison on the subject of Gary Graham's England call-up and the possibility of Ben Vellacott also being lost to Scotland. I didn't realise that Anthony Watson and his brother Marcus were SQ, according to Morrison they have a younger brother Callum (yes really) who is a scrum half at London Irish who the SRU have looked at but are unlikely to pursue.
He does mention the examples of Matthew Tait and Iain Balshaw who were both SQ. I knew about Tait and have always wondered how many Scotland caps he would have reached if he'd opted for us instead of England. OK he got 38 but I'm quite he would have had many more if he played for Scotland.
I remember reading his brother Alex turned down the chance to play for Scotland, presumably one reason being the hope England would come calling which they never did.
Obviously we don't want to select any player who's heart isn't in playing for Scotland but it must be better to have the increased chance of a decent length of international career than the often handful or less of caps that opting for England can result in.

by tigertattie Wed 10 Jan 2018, 5:06 pm

I guess we're not really in a position to comment Mac

Sitting here in my office I can safely say that if England were to come knocking at my door to see if I'd play rugby for them I'd 100% tell them to naff off as the thought of playing for anyone other than Scotland would just make my skin crawl.

But then, I'm not a professional rugby player who needs to think about my financial future and therefore what's best for me in the long run!

Look at Vunipola, he's outright said that he is not English, he is Tongan and that he only represents England on the rugby field as they pay him!

The other thing that needs to be considered is what you feel is worth more. Tait's 38 English caps could arguably be worth more than 85 potential Scotland caps!

Sometimes I miss the good old amateur days lol

by 123456789 Wed 10 Jan 2018, 5:38 pm

I was born in England, speak with an English accent and have lived in Scotland for about two and a half years of my life in total. Both of my parents are Scottish, as were my grandparents and their parents too (there's an Irish woman in there somewhere but quite difficult to pinpoint where, I'm sure I'll find her before the Ireland England game), I've always supported Scotland and if England came calling (it would be admittedly be strange if they came calling for a mediocre rugby player with knackered knees) I can honestly say I'd refuse every time.

It's disheartening to hear someone like Graham say that he picked England because of their ranking and because they're aiming for the world cup. It makes a mockery of international rugby. But it's his choice, his career and I'd be delighted if he makes his debut against Scotland and throws an interception pass in the last minute to lose the game. Live and let live I say.

by R!skysports Wed 10 Jan 2018, 6:12 pm

tigertattie wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
IanBru wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
You'll be telling me next that taking a firm grip on your opposite number's test!cles is no longer allowed.
I did that in chambers yesterday. The District Judge was not amused, but he did award me costs.
Awarded you costs? How much did the other lawyer charge you then?

Who charged who....

What is the name of the guy on second base

Who is on second base

by SecretFly Wed 10 Jan 2018, 9:00 pm

What's on third, isn't he?

by **George Carlin** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 8:23 am

tigertattie wrote:just take it out of that £100 you're due me!

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