Scotland Autumn Test postmortem and 6N look ahead

by **RDW** Mon 27 Nov 2017, 7:57 am

First topic message reminder :

2017 Autumn Test Results

Scotland 44 - Samoa 38 Smile

Tries - Hogg, Jones, McInally (2), Dunbar, Horne

Scotland 17 - New Zealand 22 Crying or Very sad

Tries - J Gray, Jones

Scotland 53 - Australia 24 Yahoo

McGuigan (2), Price, Maitland, J Gray, Jones, Barclay, McInally

6N fixtures

Wales V Scotland
Scotland V France

Scotland V England

Ireland V Scotland
Italy V Scotland

by tigertattie Thu 11 Jan 2018, 9:51 am

SecretFly wrote:What's on third, isn't he?

naturally

by Geordie Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:08 am

We noticed Gregor Townsend walk past us on Sunday at the falcons game.

Possibly keeping an eye on Jon Welsh and Chris Harris?
What chance do you think they'll get in the 6n squad?

by Geordie Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:08 am

tigertattie wrote:
SecretFly wrote:What's on third, isn't he?

naturally

No he's centrefield...

by EWT Spoons Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:23 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:We noticed Gregor Townsend walk past us on Sunday at the falcons game.

Possibly keeping an eye on Jon Welsh and Chris Harris?
What chance do you think they'll get in the 6n squad?

Welsh is guaranteed as pretty much our only fit and available TH, who has actually played a bit.

Harris, not sure. He didn’t have a great Autumn for us, but wouldn’t rule out a player on the back of one cameo appearance, but the problem he’s got is that Scotland’s centre options are coming back to fitness, so might be harder for him to make the side than it was in the Autumn. I suspect he’ll make the training squad as I’m sure Toonie will want options, but not sure if he’ll see much gametime.

How have they been getting on for Newcastle?

by **BigGee** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:29 am

Jon Welsh - definitely. The injury crisis will force Toonie's hand, but a lot of fans think he should have been in the squad anyway. I certainly do.

Chris Harris - possibly. I have seen him play for Newcastle a few times this season and have always been impressed, I can see why he caught Toonie's eye. I imagine he is a better centre than a wing and it would be harsh to judge him on the brief cameo in the AIs when he made a bit of a hash of the one chance he got.

As EWT says though, centre is probably our strongest position these days with plenty of depth. His big advantage over some of the other options though, is that he is managing not to get injured. Maybe he will have to play the long game, but I could easily see him getting more caps.

by **BigGee** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:32 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:We noticed Gregor Townsend walk past us on Sunday at the falcons game.

Possibly keeping an eye on Jon Welsh and Chris Harris?
What chance do you think they'll get in the 6n squad?

or making a last chance grab for Gary Graham?

by EWT Spoons Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:41 am

BigGee wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:We noticed Gregor Townsend walk past us on Sunday at the falcons game.

Possibly keeping an eye on Jon Welsh and Chris Harris?
What chance do you think they'll get in the 6n squad?

or making a last chance grab for Gary Graham?

Actually in all seriousness, are there any other Scottish Qualified players in the Newcastle squad who Jones could be eying up? Maybe the SRU are panicking a bit about “losing” two players and have sent toonie on the offensive.

I mean I doubt this would be Toonie’s responsibility to talk players round, but perhaps they’ve sent Scott Johnson down a couple of times and the players are none the wiser as to what he was actually trying to say.

by Geordie Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:56 am

Gary Graham is an outstanding player judging by this seasons performances. Just an old school physical flanker..both in attack and defence...and also a bit of a livewire..gets everywhere.

Jon Welsh has been excellent for us since he joined. His scrummaging doesn't look great at times, but I think that's more to do with our scrum policy...get the ball out as quick as possible....

Chris Harris is a very good AP centre. He is a bruising tackler (like a flanker at times) despite his leaner frame and he is also a very good runner, running good lines and angles. He showed that against Exeter on Sunday. He is the one with the biggest competition in the Scottish squad though.

by **BigGee** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 1:37 pm

What's the thought on Laidlaw and the SH picks for the squad?

An article on the Beeb today suggested he would be back playing in about 2 weeks.

I would say that is still a bit tight to get him into the squad for the first couple of games, surely he needs to have played some rugby first, he has been out for a long time.

I think Toonie may pick his squad for the first two games and then revise it a bit for the subsequent games depending on who has come back and who has subsequently got injured.

Where is that going to leave us at SH though, other than Ali Price, who is becoming as essential to us as FR.

The real left field choice would be to pick Horne G and BV, as the two alternates. Both full of potential but vastly inexperienced, especially at international level.

If not them, then perhaps Fowles or SHC. That does not really give you much more in the way of international experience and we know that Fowles is probably not good enough and SHC can be very flaky and has flattered to deceive when he has had his chances. Still he has been playing better this year and if he puts in a good game tomorrow, could put himself into the mix.

Then there is Henry P, who does bring some experience, but not much in the way of form. Picking him may be the safer option until Laidlaw returns though. He is unlikely to make any howlers, even if he does not win us any games in the way that Horne or Vellacott might.

Heart says Price, Horne G and Vellacott, with GL coming back in for the third game provided he proves his fitness.

Head says it will Price, Henry P and SHC.

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 2:29 pm

BigGee wrote:What's the thought on Laidlaw and the SH picks for the squad?

An article on the Beeb today suggested he would be back playing in about 2 weeks.

I would say that is still a bit tight to get him into the squad for the first couple of games, surely he needs to have played some rugby first, he has been out for a long time.

I think Toonie may pick his squad for the first two games and then revise it a bit for the subsequent games depending on who has come back and who has subsequently got injured.

Where is that going to leave us at SH though, other than Ali Price, who is becoming as essential to us as FR.

The real left field choice would be to pick Horne G and BV, as the two alternates. Both full of potential but vastly inexperienced, especially at international level.

If not them, then perhaps Fowles or SHC. That does not really give you much more in the way of international experience and we know that Fowles is probably not good enough and SHC can be very flaky and has flattered to deceive when he has had his chances. Still he has been playing better this year and if he puts in a good game tomorrow, could put himself into the mix.

Then there is Henry P, who does bring some experience, but not much in the way of form. Picking him may be the safer option until Laidlaw returns though. He is unlikely to make any howlers, even if he does not win us any games in the way that Horne or Vellacott might.

Heart says Price, Horne G and Vellacott, with GL coming back in for the third game provided he proves his fitness.

Head says it will Price, Henry P and SHC.

I'm a big fan of Pyrgos but neither my head or heart are suggesting him for back-up SH.

Laidlaw would be a lateral step that could backfire as the Scotland game has changed so much even since he got injured.

My head says George Horne should be in the squad, if not on the bench. Velacott has looked great when I've watched him for Gloucester and I'd have no qualms about him being in the squad.

SHC deserves another chance though I think unless he ups his game he'll remain a squad player.

by EWT Spoons Thu 11 Jan 2018, 2:42 pm

To continue the theme of the forward review I posted earlier from Scottish Rugby blog, they've done a backs version also, and it follows the same thought process as BigGee and others have posted around Laidlaw

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2018/01/state-nation-backs/

Scottish Rugby Blog wrote:Having looked at the perilous state of the front row and how Scotland are looking elsewhere in the pack, attention turns now to the backline.

This is a pretty settled unit, key to deploying Townsend’s high tempo gameplane. Things aren’t quite so gloomy with most first choices fit or back to training soon, but with the glass half-empty we have two weekends of European action to whittle them down a bit (please, no). The good news is that Glasgow’s games are dead rubbers and some of the big names may be rested. Edinburgh’s backs haven’t troubled Scotland’s teamsheet much in recent seasons but they could also be looking at an easy qualification if they can put Stade Francais away this weekend and resting in the pack could help us get to Cardiff with a decent bill of health.

Scrum-Half
As with the debate on hookers, scrum-half is all about Ali Price and who backs him up. Under the tutelage of skills coach Mike Blair you could argue Glasgow try too much, too often but one thing not in doubt is the improvement in their young scrum-halves.

That wasn’t the case this time last year when it was perhaps 50/50 between Price and Laidlaw. Since Greig’s unfortunate run of injuries either side of the Lions tour, Price has shot ahead and we got a real look at Toony’s plan in action in the NZ and Australia games. Finn Russell’s goal kicking has also improved massively which takes that off the table as one of the key arguments to start Greig.

Over in France Laidlaw has resumed outdoor training, according to his Instagram account. That’s about as much as we know. If he was fit there’s a good argument to have him there to close games out as a Plan B – but can he maintain the Plan A if he had to be brought on early for an injury? There is also scope to call him up to camp in an ambassadorial role for his experience but his fitness is likely to be a doubt for a style of play he’s already not wholly suited to. It puts a lot of pressure on the other two who are in if Greig’s essentially on an advisory brief.

Ben Vellacott is a much-touted name having a good season and there is a temptation to get in there before Eddie Jones does, even if he is still in his first pro season. As Richard Cockerill said of Blair Kinghorn, 21 (or in this case 22) is not “young” for test rugby. Vellacott has been playing regularly but not always starting for Gloucester, and has dual eligibility. He represented Scotland through the age grades but has been coy on his allegiances for the simple reason that while he is “English” or “both” he remains more useful to Aviva Premiership clubs. He doesn’t suddenly become “foreign” in terms of the squad makeup even if he pitches up at Murrayfield, but the club gains funding for nurturing English-qualified players and he’s understandably keen to keep the employers sweet. He also fits the fast, attacking mode of play that Scotland have (and currently, England don’t as much) and for now edges Hidalgo-Clyne on form. If he’s not capped during either the Six Nations or the summer tour he may remain one that got away though and in all honesty, if the decision is delayed until the Summer you’d think England’s tour to South Africa would be more appealing to him than the usual Scottish hodge-podge – especially now our main side are good enough that this jaunt can only be viewed as a development tour. Here’s another interesting point: for most of his Scotland U20 career (around 2015) he was second fiddle to George Horne.

On Horne, he already looks to the manner born at Glasgow and has that Sevens pace that is hard to beat. He also could offer a goal kicking option. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne has improved massively this season which means he is back at the level where he was in his first season, being talked about as a Laidlaw replacement until Price appeared. If Townsend doesn’t go for Vellacott then he should pick the two young lads to backup Price (who is himself only 24). Henry Pyrgos is out of sorts at the moment and isn’t the reassuring deputy he once was. Nathan Fowles was in the squad ahead of Hidalgo-Clyne for his service in the autumn but looks to have been overtaken. Roll the dice, I say.

Squad (3): Ali Price, Ben Vellacott, George Horne
Out: Greig Laidlaw, Henry Pyrgos, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne

Standoff
Last year it was a choice of Finn Russell backed up by Duncan Weir or Pete Horne, with Ruaridh Jackson returning to the squad when Townsend took over and Weir barely seen since – mostly through injury. Finn Russell and Pete Horne are likely to continue as standoff and backup, although not quite interchangeable. When on his game, Finn Russell is world class in attack and can at times verge on unplayable – at least against Australia. Since last year he’s added kicking and a bit of maturity to his game but with a big money move to France now settled, this tournament could be his chance to justify the hype and silence the criticism that he is still too flighty in certain games.

As backup, Pete Horne has his critics but he’s been steady when appearing for Scotland aside from an early hiccup a couple of years back. Ruaridh Jackson will more than likely be around the squad to provide extra cover. Weir is injured and it is too soon for Adam Hastings. Things might get interesting in a few years as Hastings matures and when Jaco Van Der Walt qualifies…

Squad (2): Finn Russell, Pete Horne
Out: Duncan Weir

Centres
We’ve written whole articles on this in the past but currently the rosy glow from having the best set of midfield talent we’ve ever had is tempered by fitness issues. Townsend had Duncan Taylor in the summer but not Huw Jones, then the situation was reversed in the autumn. The question is, can we get SuperDunc into the squad to push the incumbents hard – and provide multi-skilled backup from the bench? And how quickly will Mark Bennett get back up to speed?

Huw Jones has not yet set the heather on fire for Glasgow as he adapts to new environs, but he’s probably had one bad game in a Scotland shirt and even then he scored two tries. Some of his touches and passes during Zebre game were class and he has a nose for a try. He and Defensive Dunbar are inked in already, having started all of the previous Six Nations and all of the Autumn Internationals. Expect Taylor to mount a strong challenge to start if he is fit but only injury or a serious dip in form is going to stop those two.

Currently Matt Scott, Duncan Taylor and Mark Bennett are all back to fitness. Duncan Taylor suffered a head knock after 20 minutes in Saracens’ win at the weekend; like Fraser Brown he keeps picking them up which is a worry. Hopefully, he will recover in time. We’ve not seen him for Scotland since the loss to Fiji when he was injured, but he was absolutely brilliant in the summer tour win over the Wallabies and should make the 23 if he’s fit.

Matt Scott was given things to work on by Townsend last year, but he’s only just back from ankle surgery and is short of game time. Toony will want genuine challenge for places and Scott may yet have a part to play if injuries come into it. Mark Bennett is in a similar situation after an even longer layoff, so it will be interesting to see how quickly he gets up to speed at Edinburgh but the opening games will almost certainly be too soon for him.

Nick Grigg, Chris Harris and Phil Burleigh were the backup centres in the autumn and Harris probably deserves another shot for strong Newcastle form – like Jon Welsh he’s played every game this season – but it could be any two from Scott, Bennett, Harris or Grigg to round out the training group.

Squad (5): Alex Dunbar, Huw Jones, Duncan Taylor, Chris Harris, Matt Scott
Out: Mark Bennett, Phil Burleigh, Nick Grigg

Outside Backs

Trying to pick who to keep from this lot is quite tricky. Wonder fullback Stuart Hogg could be fit by as the weekend which is very welcome news, but it would be worth considering young Blair Kinghorn as backup purely because his form has shown no signs of dipping since the season started. Ruaridh Jackson is perhaps the more likely choice to challenge but if you are only picking 5 for the squad in this area, are three of them going to be “just” fullbacks? Kinghorn for me is more suited to cover wing if needed so he gets the nod despite the Ru-naissance, but Sean Maitland may get in ahead of them both on reputation.

Which brings us to the Sean Maitland question. He played very well against Australia but can seem dangerously nonchalant at times both for Saracens and Scotland. Contrast that with Byron McGuigan who was hungry and powerful on his Scotland debut, scoring two tries (although he got a red card back at Sale the week after).

Tommy Seymour’s toe was injured in the Samoa game and then allowed to deteriorate his game so badly that he’s not an automatic pick any more. He is class on his day and has a near-telepathic understanding with Hogg – that try they created for Jones against New Zealand was probably our best of the year. If he’s fit now he has been rested and goes well in training, you can be sure he starts.

Then it’s up to Byron McGuigan, Tim Visser, Dougie Fife, Lee Jones and Damien Hoyland to battle it out. Chris Harris, Duncan Taylor and Huw Jones have all spent time on the wing as has Mark Bennett, occasionally. There’s no shortage of competition but you need to look at try scorers who can defend. Visser didn’t feature in the Autumn and some suspect he’s out of favour for his defence but he still has 6 league tries in 9 games, one behind McGuigan who is in joint 2nd spot with 8 from 10. Lee Jones has had a damned good season, and he has the Glasgow backline thing going for him. It might come down to a choice between him and Visser.

Squad (5): Stuart Hogg, Blair Kinghorn, Tommy Seymour, Byron McGuigan, Lee Jones
Out: Rory Hughes, Tim Visser, Ruaridh Jackson, Dougie Fife, Sean Maitland

by **RDW** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 3:11 pm

Apparently Duncan Taylor is having to see a specialist due to repeat concussions.

The odds on Mark Bennett starting v Wales have surely shortened! Unless Dunbar is fit and he goes for Dunbar-Jones. If not Jones-Bennett??

by EWT Spoons Thu 11 Jan 2018, 3:33 pm

I'd be amazed if Bennett started against Wales. He's only just back from his 2nd ACL op, and said himself he was exhausted after the last game, with only 2 pro games before the 6 nations start.

These players are not up to the same standard as Bennett on his day, but Burleigh, Scott (just back from injury, but not as bad an injury), Harris, Grigg are all likely to start ahead of Bennett if Taylor doesn't make it.

by **RDW** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 3:39 pm

Where did you see that Matt Scott is back? He's not in the Gloucester squad for this weekend.

I'm not saying Bennett should start but if we picked up anymore injuries at 13 then he could find himself in the squad.

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 3:47 pm

What about James Johnstone? I've not watched much of Edinburgh but he seems to be rated by Cockerill.

by **RDW** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 3:51 pm

JJ has been a bit of a revelation at Edinburgh - so much so that Cockers has given him a 2 year deal. Really dangerous in attack and has got himself up to speed with the other aspects of 15s like defence and rucks. He has been quiet the last few games he's played though and lost his place, and with Bennett back he's likely going to find his gametime limited.

i can't see him being near the squad TBF.

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:01 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:JJ has been a bit of a revelation at Edinburgh - so much so that Cockers has given him a 2 year deal. Really dangerous in attack and has got himself up to speed with the other aspects of 15s like defence and rucks. He has been quiet the last few games he's played though and lost his place, and with Bennett back he's likely going to find his gametime limited.

i can't see him being near the squad TBF.

Fair, I think we'd all love to see Bennett back to his best.

I'm not feeling too worried about the centres. Peter Horne can do a job there in a pinch though I don't think we're close to that yet. Tragic if we lose another player to head trauma, but I'm glad Taylor is seeing a specialist rather than putting him at unnecessary risk.

I'm more worried about something happening to Finn, because as shown when we took on Fiji, our organised chaos begins to look more like disorganised panic when he's not playing. I hope Hastings can offer us something there when he gets more gametime (it's a shame he hasn't been given more opportunity but 6Ns hopefully he'll step up).

If in doubt the mighty Richie Vernon will be back soon.

He can play from 1 to 15 and still is the fastest player on the pitch

by **BigGee** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:42 pm

Matt Scott did make a comeback from the ankle injury but has not been seen in Gloucester colours recently. Maybe he has just fallen down the pecking order a bit in his absence.

Either way, he has hardly played this year and is not going to be anywhere near the squad for now.

by **RDW** Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:46 pm

He's still listed as injured in their team announcement for this weekend, and I've generally looked at Gloucester's team sheets most weeks and he hasn't played for months! As far as I'm aware he's been injured for ages.

by TJ Fri 12 Jan 2018, 12:48 am

On Laidlaw I think his time has finished. A great servant of the scottish game and a fine player who never let Scotland down. But he is not as familiar with the players and the style now as the other contenders and often a bit conservative / slow.

Price for me with pyrgos, hornes / SHC fighting for the 2nd place.

Thanks and goodnight Greg. You have done us proud

by EWT Spoons Fri 12 Jan 2018, 8:06 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:He's still listed as injured in their team announcement for this weekend, and I've generally looked at Gloucester's team sheets most weeks and he hasn't played for months! As far as I'm aware he's been injured for ages.

I was going from the link & quote thing I posted further up this thread from Scottish Rugby Blog, they call out he's now back from injury. I guess it's possible he's back from the major injury and picked up another knock, which seems to happen fairly regularly.

by **RDW** Fri 12 Jan 2018, 9:24 am

Cockerill saying in the Scotsman this morning that McCallum probably isn't ready for international rugby yet (which is true), but he'd give his all if selceted and you never know what might happen, citing Marfo as an example (which is also true).

Not exactly confidence building talk from his coach, but he may just be saying it because he doesn't want to lose his last remaining competent tighthead!

by EWT Spoons Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:15 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Cockerill saying in the Scotsman this morning that McCallum probably isn't ready for international rugby yet (which is true), but he'd give his all if selceted and you never know what might happen, citing Marfo as an example (which is also true).

Not exactly confidence building talk from his coach, but he may just be saying it because he doesn't want to lose his last remaining competent tighthead!

That's interesting as he was on the radio last week saying he's done his chances of a call up no harm, and he's stepped up every time so far. Cockers is right though and to be fair, he only signed his first pro contract last year, I doubt McCallum genuinely thinks he's ready yet to play Internationally yet.

by bsando Fri 12 Jan 2018, 11:10 am

It's getting to the point where someone inexperienced will need to be on the bench to cover Reid and Welsh unfortunately as the options are just so limited now.

For Wales

Loosehead ~~Dickinson~~, ~~Dell~~, ~~Marfo~~, Reid, Sutherland, Allan, Low?
Hooker MacInally, ~~Brown~~, ~~Ford~~, Turner (lost game time due to ban), Macarthur (hamstring?), Malcolm
Tighthead ~~Nel~~, ~~Fagerson~~, ~~Berghan~~, Welsh, MaCallum?, Rae?, Low?

Just roughly put together (missing anyone?) but from that I think i'd go with.. 1.Reid 2.MacInally 3.Welsh Bench of Turner,Low, Sutherland. Not awful really and a nice mix of size and mobility. Assuming there are no more injuries Erm

by EWT Spoons Fri 12 Jan 2018, 11:22 am

Could probably include Cochrane at hooker as well, just in terms of potential call up options, not starting obviously.

I'd go with Sutherland, McInally, Welsh for the Wales game with a bench of Reid, Turner (if fit & available, Cochrane if not), Rae

by Hazel Sapling Fri 12 Jan 2018, 1:51 pm

Forgot Bhatti in your loosehead options Bsando. Think he is fit (hopefully no one corrects me). Low should be nowhere near this squad. McCallum and Bhatti have outplayed him. Heck, Kyle Traynor has outplayed him. I would rather Traynor come on than Low (who needs to find a new club where he can actually play; being behind a couple of top tightheads (who stay fit) dents your chances of playing).

If Graham is that good, maybe he made the choice. We are short an 8 but a guy who can cover 6/7 would not go amiss especially with the way Scotland play. Easily be able to fight for the bench spot if he does not start.

Think Harris is the favourite if we don't have 2 of Dunbar, Jones and Taylor. Scott and Bennett are just getting back and will be fighting it out for the France or England game depending on injuries. He looks solid defensively and physical in attack which is a good contrast to Jones. Burleigh was taken off the last time he played due to injury and Harris has outplayed Grigg (who is solid).

by TJ Fri 12 Jan 2018, 11:15 pm

What happens if we get another couple of front row injuries? How many pro team scots props are left uninjured? Can't play a semi pro player from Gala or watsonians etc so what would happen if we cannot find 4 pro team props? Its not that far away.

by nlpnlp Fri 12 Jan 2018, 11:57 pm

I am sure there are enough New Zealand/Australian/South African players with Scottish grandparents who would appear out of the woodwork to cover the positions. Apologies for the management speak but every problem should be seen as an opportunity. How many players in every team have established themselves because of an injury to an "established" player. Scotland will be fine.

by **BigGee** Sat 13 Jan 2018, 1:42 am

I kind of agree with nipnip's sentiments. We are actually in a much stronger position for Props than we have been in years and if a few others get some international experience, we are going to end up with some genuine competition for places, which can only be a good thing.

As long as we can hold our own in set scrums, we will be fine. There are less and less scrums in international matches these days anyway.

by MacKnocked-on Sat 13 Jan 2018, 11:38 am

Given the unexpected call ups of Harris and Hamilton for the AIs I guess we might expect another surprise or two on Tuesday. Huw Jones was obviously called up first from the Stormers so maybe the SQ programme might produce another overseas or England based player or two that nobody's expecting.

by **BigGee** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:52 am

You would struggle to imagine a Toonie selection without at least one surprise!

Can't wait for Tuesday and to see the squad.

by **RDW** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:08 am

So other than Sutherland it looks like everyone else managed to get through the weekend unscathed?

by Second Ranker Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:01 am

I wonder if Toonie will try and poach Zach Mercer from the England squad.

He is still Scottish qualified due to living in Scotland from the age of 10 till 17, despite being named as an apprentice in Eddie's squad in November.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/hotshots/hotshot-bath-no8-zach-mercer-76241

He could be the answer to our number 8 struggles

by **RDW** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:06 am

That'll be Gary Mercer's son then! He's one for the future but don't think he'll solve our immediate problems - at 6ft 3 and under 17st he's pretty lightweight, and we've got enough of those already!

by **BigGee** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:15 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:So other than Sutherland it looks like everyone else managed to get through the weekend unscathed?

I think he had a head knock. Hopefully with a few weeks to go, that will be sorted by the Wales game.

I fancy Bhatti to start in any case, with Reid or Sutherland for the bench spot. We are still in reasonable shape on the LH side, despite all the injuries.

by **BigGee** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:21 am

Second Ranker wrote:I wonder if Toonie will try and poach Zach Mercer from the England squad.

He is still Scottish qualified due to living in Scotland from the age of 10 till 17, despite being named as an apprentice in Eddie's squad in November.

http://www.rugbyworld.com/in-the-mag/hotshots/hotshot-bath-no8-zach-mercer-76241

He could be the answer to our number 8 struggles

A serious question, are players like Mercer or Graham still 'poachable' once they have been involved in the England set up. I know they have not been capped, but do they have to sign any contractual agreements that will then bind them. At the every least they may well know the line out calls!

Toonie was spotted at Kingston Park last weekend, starting some speculation that he was talking to Gary Graham. I imagine that was hear say and he was more likely to have been watching Harris and Welsh, but you do wonder?

by **BigGee** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 1:59 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42675937

Jamie Lyall not really suggesting anyone we have not already mentioned and certainly not Mercer nor Graham!

by No 7&1/2 Sun 14 Jan 2018, 2:17 pm

Mercer is a quality player. Could go onto be an England legend. Doubt he would pick scotland even if he did qualify which he doesn't.

by lostinwales Sun 14 Jan 2018, 5:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Mercer is a quality player. Could go onto be an England legend. Doubt he would pick scotland even if he did qualify which he doesn't.

Post RWC England captain - but I am not sure he'll be ready before then

by **BigGee** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:20 pm

Just watched the Blues v Toulouse game. Bit of a chuck around, which both sides did their best to lose but from a Scotland POV Ritchie Gray had a decent enough game.

He played the full 80 mins and put himself about, carrying and tackling.

He certainly looks fit enough for the squad, though he won't necessarily walk into the team any more.

Going to be some hard calls in the second row.

by **RDW** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:28 pm

Squad announcement is Tuesday btw

by **BigGee** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:39 pm

I wonder if any of the Glasgow players have played their way out of contention.

Jacko had a particularly poor game, maybe opening the door a bit further for Kinghorn.

Pete Horne was also pretty unimpressive and confirmed what most of us already knew, that he is no international FH. This is a problem Scotland have that really needs addressing, we are so dependant on FR being fit, it is frightening.

Ashe played 80 mins and made no howlers, but not many yards.

Turner put himself about a bit and did not lack for effort. He will be back in, due to lack of alternatives, but also because he is worth persevering with. He has potential.

Grigg was also very good going forward with the ball and was as hard to put down as ever. He needs to be a bit better ball in hand though to make that step up to international class.

by MacKnocked-on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:08 pm

Regarding back up for Finn Russell, and considering Pete Horne is somewhat flakey, I wonder if the next best SQ 10 currently getting plenty of playing time is James Lang at Quins? Would obviously be a massive shock call up but apparently he played very well against Wasps (and Cipriani) yesterday.

by **BigGee** Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:19 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:Regarding back up for Finn Russell, and considering Pete Horne is somewhat flakey, I wonder if the next best SQ 10 currently getting plenty of playing time is James Lang at Quins? Would obviously be a massive shock call up but apparently he played very well against Wasps (and Cipriani) yesterday.

I watched that game and have seen him play before this year as well.

He did play well, both at FH and when he was moved out to the centre when Marcus Smith came on. It does not seem clear where he will end up playing, probably not at FH if he chooses to play at Quins in the longer term. He is third or fourth choice there at the moment.

I would put him in the category of a promising one to watch for the future, but miles away from being international ready yet, he has not even nailed down a club spot yet. I can't see him making this squad.

by MacKnocked-on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:44 pm

I'm not expecting Lang to be called up, as you say he's only just getting in to the Quins team but I was trying to make the point that after Russell we're struggling with Horne.

by **RDW** Mon 15 Jan 2018, 8:37 am

I watched the Quins game too - Lang has something about him but certainly has a lot to work on too. He's a great athlete with real pace and a good step (as shown when he tracked back to gather the ball after a long kick by Wasps then stepped Willie Le Roux) and he knows his way to the try line.

Again one for the future but not this 6N. Summer tour perhaps if he is interested.

What makes him SQ?

by propdavid_london Mon 15 Jan 2018, 9:15 am

I had no idea Lang was SQ! Actually thought he was a local lad to the stoop and had played some earlier rugby in the Welsh prem - In fact I thought he was Welsh qualified for some reason!
Definitely a prospect whichever way he decides to go, but I would say its a bit soon for international honours.
I actually thought he looked a lot better playing in the midfield rather than 10.

Having said all that - Marfo only got a few look ins when with Quins and he has turned out pretty well so far.......

by tigertattie Mon 15 Jan 2018, 9:28 am

propdavid_london wrote:I had no idea Lang was SQ! Actually thought he was a local lad to the stoop and had played some earlier rugby in the Welsh prem - In fact I thought he was Welsh qualified for some reason!
Definitely a prospect whichever way he decides to go, but I would say its a bit soon for international honours.
I actually thought he looked a lot better playing in the midfield rather than 10.

Having said all that - Marfo only got a few look ins when with Quins and he has turned out pretty well so far.......

You're right, he was born locally to the Stoop but he's played U18s for Scotland so must have a Scottish parent or grandparent.

by propdavid_london Mon 15 Jan 2018, 9:46 am

The kid has got some options then.
And if he has already gone through the SRFU age grade system I would like to think that's probably where his head is at.
Obviously things can change - but he is certainly one to watch. With other 10's out of action for Quins and Smith being an EPS apprentice there is a chance he will get a lot more 1st team gametime this season.

by **BigGee** Mon 15 Jan 2018, 9:57 am

One thing different about this Scottish coaching regime is that we are not getting anything in the way of clues in the media as to who might be in the squad.

In past regimes, the journos in the loop had usually told us what the squad would be a few days in advance of the official announcements.

Morrison in the Scotsman (who used to be one of those with an insight) put out an article headline over the weekend suggesting a few newbies into the squad and then proceeded to say pretty much nothing in the article itself.

Even Mark Palmer and Rob Robertson, who seem to be a lot closer to the action than Morrison is these days are really giving anything away. Either they genuinely don't know or have been sworn to silence on pain of excommunication from the inner circle, which is something that has probably happened to Morrison!

It is intriguing to have to wait until the death to find out, especially with the promise that Toonie is always likely to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

By the same token, it was always nice to get the odd titbit in advance as well!

Who really does know the workings of Toonie's mind. It probably keeps the players on their toes as well.

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