Ireland 6 Nations chat

First topic message reminder :

Geoff on the Ulster thread created a clever analysis on squad depth and I am taking a crack at a similar one for Ireland in advance of the 6 nations:

My assumptions are based on a squad of 36 (not the 40 Joe named last year). Players categories into 4 ratings:

World class = top three in position in world, and/or Lions test starter
International class = would make the team for other tier 1 nations
Below international class - would not make the team for other tier 1 nations
Exciting prospect - show potential to be a real asset

Ideally we have one world class and 2 international class per position.

TH (3)
World class - Furlong
International class - Ryan
Exciting prospect - Porter

Assessment - Drop off after Furlong, but not as steep as with hooker

Hooker (3)
International class - Best, Cronin (instead of Tracy)
Below international class - Herring

Assessment - Our weakest forward position, with a big drop off after Best

LH (3)
World class - McGrath (Lions bench for all three tests, scrapes in here)
International class - Healy, Kilcoyne

Assessment - Most consistently strong position in front row, all three are great players and Healy may well rereach his world class heights in 2018. Add in Moore and its a great position for us

Lock (5)
International class - Henderson, Toner
Below international class - Dillane, Roux (instead of Treadwell)
Exciting prospect - Ryan

Assessment - good first team pair, with some exciting prospects coming through.

Flankers (6)
World class - POM
International class - VDF, Murphy (Instead of TOD, Ruddock and SOB out due to injury)
Exciting prospect - Leavy

Assessment - embarrasment of riches!

No. 8 (2)
International class - Stander, Conan
Assessment - Very strong, with multiple flankers also able to play there

Scrumhalf (3)
World class - Murray
Below international class - Marmion, McGrath

Assessment - big drop off after Murray. Marmion/McGrath neither have been able to fully translate provincial form to ireland

Flyhalf (3)
World class - Sexton
Below international class - Keatley
Exciting prospect - Carberry

Assessment - Sexton staying fit is essential to winning in Twickenham, the drop off after that is huge.

Centers (5)
International class - Henshaw, Aki,
Below international class -  Farrell
Exciting prospect -Scannell (Instead of Ringrose and McCloskey)

Assessment - strong, if not the most exciting group of players.

Wings (5)
International class - Earls
Below international class - Conway, McFadden (Instead of Byrne, Sweetnam)
Exciting prospect - Stockdale

Assessment - some exciting young players coming through, but think Earls will start

Fullback (2)
International class - Kearney
Exciting prospect - Larmour

Assessment - Kearney continues to show his class in the big games and will start 3/4 of the 6 nations, I think Larmour has a good shot of starting the others. TOH if not.

I'd like to see Conan and Leavy start. Also give Murray a rest and Larmour to start at full back. In reality I think Leavy will start with Murphy to the bench and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Schmidt drops Stockdale for McFadden. I hope he doesn't.

I cant see Schmidt dropping Stockdale for McFadden. Stockdale just didn't get the chance to shine on Saturday but I think against an Italian defence, him, Earls and Larmour could have a field day in broken play.

But it's all very well having a field day against Italy though.  England made them look like hot butter.  Now it's perhaps less certain that we'll try to slice through them so effortlessly but still......  

I think Larmour should be dropped in at the deep end myself.... not against Italy.  Hold him off for Wales.  Put him under some serious pressure and see how he handles it.  I have no time for this breaking them in easily.  If he's in the squad as a prospect or as a filler-in in the case of injuries then he should be able to take the strain from day one.  Italy shouldn't be 'easy' in an ideal world anyway (but presumably still are) so we should test the real prospects in what everyone would describe as a real game.
Schmidt should talk to him and tell him the coaches trust him, that they don't want any fireworks or over-reaching from him but that they want him to show enough to get Ireland a less 'predictable' reputation.

I think Carbery would be ideal for this game.  Just back from injury, no returning form proven yet (unlike on-fire larmour) - in my opinion it's he who needs the 'easier' breaking in phase more than battle hardened Larmour.

I'd like to see Carbery and McGrath start this week. Maybe with St.Johnny and Murray on the bench. McFadden could well be another starter along with Larmour. Italy are no walkovers but they are a fair bit more porous than any of the other sides, Scotland will not be that porous again. Wales and Scotland are going to be massive games, maybe a bit too massive for new caps. Larmour won't be allowed to show his flair anyway, Joe will not allow such deviation from the formula.

"Larmour, we're all stunned by your Godlike skills of space finding, cute-hoorism and jet-propulsion ticker................... now when you play for us, you'll cut out that shyte immediately! You understand! You see a opposition player in front of you and you bloody well better not try to avoid him under my watch!"

Pete330v2 wrote:I'd like to see Carbery and McGrath start this week. Maybe with St.Johnny and Murray on the bench. McFadden could well be another starter along with Larmour. Italy are no walkovers but they are a fair bit more porous than any of the other sides, Scotland will not be that porous again. Wales and Scotland are going to be massive games, maybe a bit too massive for new caps. Larmour won't be allowed to show his flair anyway, Joe will not allow such deviation from the formula.

If you are going to start a 10 to give Sexton a rest then I would suggest that Byrne is the better option since he has been playing more at 10 for Leinster than Carbery. Correct me if I am wrong Leinster fans.

Play Conan at 8 for Italy. Stander at 6 and Leavy or Vdf at 7.

Vdf out for the season.

Really? Shoite. Huge loss

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:How about you mind your own business?

Seriously?  On a public discussion forum?

Well then at least be consistent with your stupid comments. I was responding to ad hominin remarks myself.

I hadn’t realized my comments were stupid.  Apologies for that.

eirebilly wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I'd like to see Carbery and McGrath start this week. Maybe with St.Johnny and Murray on the bench. McFadden could well be another starter along with Larmour. Italy are no walkovers but they are a fair bit more porous than any of the other sides, Scotland will not be that porous again. Wales and Scotland are going to be massive games, maybe a bit too massive for new caps. Larmour won't be allowed to show his flair anyway, Joe will not allow such deviation from the formula.

If you are going to start a 10 to give Sexton a rest then I would suggest that Byrne is the better option since he has been playing more at 10 for Leinster than Carbery. Correct me if I am wrong Leinster fans.

You are not wrong - Byrne has been playing more at 10 than Carbery.

Byrne is grand but he is a bit of a poor mans Sexton. Carbery offers something different. Id pick Keatley ahead of Byrne.

Predictably Kearney is getting a lot of criticism online for the Teddy Thomas try. However, if you break it down it was fairly bad from about 4 Irish players.

Firstly Murray rushes up by himself on the kick but fails to tackle Dupont. Either rush up together or if you are alone you have to make the tackle or you create space for France to attack.
Next Kearney defends too narrow and allows Dupont to pass to Tomas in space.
As Thomas cuts inside POM has a chance to tackle him but doesn't.
Then Thomas passes Stander who is blocked by a French player but didn't have the gas anyway.
Then Stockdale who has been tracking Thomas in field fails to make a tackle.

A lot of poor defending in that passage but fairly nice movement from Thomas. As Neil Francis said "It would have been a travesty if Ireland had lost this match to a try scored by a man wearing a bun in his hair in an international."

eirebilly wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I'd like to see Carbery and McGrath start this week. Maybe with St.Johnny and Murray on the bench. McFadden could well be another starter along with Larmour. Italy are no walkovers but they are a fair bit more porous than any of the other sides, Scotland will not be that porous again. Wales and Scotland are going to be massive games, maybe a bit too massive for new caps. Larmour won't be allowed to show his flair anyway, Joe will not allow such deviation from the formula.

If you are going to start a 10 to give Sexton a rest then I would suggest that Byrne is the better option since he has been playing more at 10 for Leinster than Carbery. Correct me if I am wrong Leinster fans.

He has but I'd still prefer Carbery to have a go against the Italians. Byrne hasn't caught the eye of Joe though, I think it's Carbery that Joe sees as being the eventual contender for the 10 shirt, not Keatley or Byrne.
Also, at what point does it become official that Marmion had been displaced by either McGrath or Cooney? Is it a number of games or a period of time

Pete330v2 wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I'd like to see Carbery and McGrath start this week. Maybe with St.Johnny and Murray on the bench. McFadden could well be another starter along with Larmour. Italy are no walkovers but they are a fair bit more porous than any of the other sides, Scotland will not be that porous again. Wales and Scotland are going to be massive games, maybe a bit too massive for new caps. Larmour won't be allowed to show his flair anyway, Joe will not allow such deviation from the formula.

If you are going to start a 10 to give Sexton a rest then I would suggest that Byrne is the better option since he has been playing more at 10 for Leinster than Carbery. Correct me if I am wrong Leinster fans.

He has but I'd still prefer Carbery to have a go against the Italians. Byrne hasn't caught the eye of Joe though, I think it's Carbery that Joe sees as being the eventual contender for the 10 shirt, not Keatley or Byrne.
Also, at what point does it become official that Marmion had been displaced by either McGrath or Cooney? Is it a number of games or a period of time

He may have been passed by McGrath Pete but not by Cooney so our bet is still on (as nervous as I am now )

Cullen and Lancaster seem to see Byrne as the next best 10 for Leinster and are keeping Carbery mainly at 15. I just think that it makes no sense to put a player into an international position as important as 10 without the player playing there regularly at their club. I think Byrne has done ok at 10, from what I have seen.

Ireland have now won 8 games in a row. Our record winning streak is 10 in a row and that came v Italy in 2014 and ended against England in the following game. Can Schmidt break his own record and win v Italy, Wales and Scotland at home?

Pot Hale wrote:
Up front is less of a problem, but still.
Leavy should have started. Ruddock and O’Brien are a miss. And I still find myself asking: Is Stander really a test 8?
.

This is how others have seen the performance of those players you want to bin

Cian Tracey (Irish Indo jouno)
‏@CianTracey1

25 carries from CJ Stander who had another big game for Ireland. Watch his spin out of the tackle in the final carry before Sexton’s drop goal. Gains an extra couple of metres. Absolutely crucial. Small margins.

The Monday Overview: How Peter O’Mahony laid the foundations for Johnny Sexton’s dropped goal

Unsung Hero of the Week — Peter O’Mahony (Ireland)
It is commonly observed in rugby that a player “does the unseen work well”. Richard Hill was cited as one who did the nitty-gritty that holds a team together. O’Mahony, too, is one whose work-rate and tenacity around the breakdown may go unnoticed to most, but that coaches value highly. On Saturday night in Paris, however, you could not miss him.

Nothing flashy, of course, but a two-metre carry here, or a clinical clearout there kept Ireland ticking over in a game that was, for large parts, quite stodgy.

In the final 40 phases O’Mahony was involved directly 17 times. He hit seven rucks, six of which he arrived to first, he carried six times and popped up with a few passes. It was a colossal rate of work for the last moments of a Test match.

Devin Toner and Dan Leavy, both replacements, stood out too, but of the players who started, none showed quite as much will to get hands on the ball and drive Ireland up the field as O’Mahony.

How O’Mahony held together 41-phase drop goal

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/the-monday-overview-how-peter-omahoney-laid-the-foundations-for-johnny-sextons-dropped-goal-7mb0zhhv7

Drop goal aside, 30 metres in 40 phases is very poor.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Ireland have now won 8 games in a row. Our record winning streak is 10 in a row and that came v Italy in 2014 and ended against England in the following game. Can Schmidt break his own record and win v Italy, Wales and Scotland at home?

I hope the team are not thinking about numbers but it'd be nice to force Eddie back to starting out at 1 again....


We have to grab this tournament by the scruff of the neck and stop f**king around now.  They'd be eating out a long time telling tales of stalling our GS ambitions if any of Italy, Wales or Scotland beat us on our own turf.  

We seriously need to get ruthless now and the players have to leave nothing on the table in terms of effort....and skill.  Wales will certainly come with swagger and we have to be determined to bury them in our heads, because that's the instructions and belief they'll have coming over.  We're too nice as a side.  We do need a more vicious bite.  If I have any criticism of the Ireland of today its that we've forgotten how to be bloody minded.

The Classic 41 phase drop kick was a technical and disciplined masterpiece - but maybe we left ourselves in the position of needing it because during the bulk of the game it was functional rugby by numbers.  Wales and Gatland fully believe they are better than us.  We need to drink the same stuff Warren does.... vengeance and blood-thirstiness.

Scotland are still a threat. England are certainly a threat. But why do I fear Wales above all of them?

Scottrf wrote:Drop goal aside, 30 metres in 40 phases is very poor.

That presumes the intention was to make hard yards and go for what was by then a very improbable try in sticky conditions away to France with the clock already saying 'time to go home'.

As Murray said (I paraphrase) "We knew what we were doing, we just weren't sure it would work with all the mistakes that can happen."

So that was a methodical, very cautious and very concentrated march forward. Sexton got his position. Said nothing but raised an eyebrow or something and........... it worked.

You think he wanted to hit the kick from that far out? Fair play for the discipline, but you don't want to be hitting a 45 metre drop goal in the wet to win. It's a tired, inexperienced French team. If you can't get closer, it should be worrying as much as an amazing play.

Scottrf wrote:You think he wanted to hit the kick from that far out? Fair play for the discipline, but you don't want to be hitting a 45 metre drop goal in the wet to win. It's a tired, inexperienced French team. If you can't get closer, it should be worrying as much as an amazing play.

You get what you can get.  You seriously think the Irish players couldn't have done 10 or 15 more metres?

You start to balance the probabilities of Nigel calling a penalty against you.  That game/move they played is on a very unforgiving timer.  The longer you engage in trying something, the higher the chances are that you'll make a mistake every bit as much as the opposition might.  So you're balancing how much luck do you think you have left.

It was a perfect execution and had it not worked I would have been unhappy of course but I wouldn't have been against the attempt.  It's all they had left and to a man, they went for it.  Best bit of Irish combined skill and thinking in years.  Serious team.  Dull...but serious.

SecretFly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:You think he wanted to hit the kick from that far out? Fair play for the discipline, but you don't want to be hitting a 45 metre drop goal in the wet to win. It's a tired, inexperienced French team. If you can't get closer, it should be worrying as much as an amazing play.

You get what you can get.  You seriously think the Irish players couldn't have done 10 or 15 more metres?

You start to balance the probabilities of Nigel calling a penalty against you.  That game/move they played is on a very unforgiving timer.  The longer you engage in trying something, the higher the chances are that you'll make a mistake every bit as much as the opposition might.  So you're balancing how much luck do you think you have left.

It was a perfect execution and had it not worked I would have been unhappy of course but I wouldn't have been against the attempt.  It's all they had left and to a man, they went for it.  Best bit of Irish combined skill and thinking in years.  Serious team.  Dull...but serious.

Exactly. They judged that a really improbable kick was preferable to making 10 metres against a poor, tired French team.

What I found even more excellent than the DG itself was that Sexton was down with cramp only 5mins prior to that DG. He was clearly struggling and was stretching his leg at every possible moment. To pick yourself up after a cramp and 80mins rugby to kick a DG from that far out is simply sublime and a deserved match winning contribution.

It's what top level sport is all about. Delivering under pressure when it matters. Full credit to Sexton.

Sin é wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:
Up front is less of a problem, but still.
Leavy should have started. Ruddock and O’Brien are a miss. And I still find myself asking: Is Stander really a test 8?
.

This is how others have seen the performance of those players you want to bin

Cian Tracey  (Irish Indo jouno)
‏@CianTracey1

25 carries from CJ Stander who had another big game for Ireland. Watch his spin out of the tackle in the final carry before Sexton’s drop goal. Gains an extra couple of metres. Absolutely crucial. Small margins.

The Monday Overview: How Peter O’Mahony laid the foundations for Johnny Sexton’s dropped goal

Unsung Hero of the Week — Peter O’Mahony (Ireland)
It is commonly observed in rugby that a player “does the unseen work well”. Richard Hill was cited as one who did the nitty-gritty that holds a team together. O’Mahony, too, is one whose work-rate and tenacity around the breakdown may go unnoticed to most, but that coaches value highly. On Saturday night in Paris, however, you could not miss him.

Nothing flashy, of course, but a two-metre carry here, or a clinical clearout there kept Ireland ticking over in a game that was, for large parts, quite stodgy.

In the final 40 phases O’Mahony was involved directly 17 times. He hit seven rucks, six of which he arrived to first, he carried six times and popped up with a few passes. It was a colossal rate of work for the last moments of a Test match.

Devin Toner and Dan Leavy, both replacements, stood out too, but of the players who started, none showed quite as much will to get hands on the ball and drive Ireland up the field as O’Mahony.

How O’Mahony held together 41-phase drop goal

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/the-monday-overview-how-peter-omahoney-laid-the-foundations-for-johnny-sextons-dropped-goal-7mb0zhhv7

Was O'Mahony actually playing? Probably Ireland's quietest player. I was at the game and he was literally anonymous for 83 minutes.

Is it described as unseen as it literally didn't exist? Does the unseen also apply to O'Mahony non-existent effort to tackle Tomas as he cut in field and ran past him? Thought he was one of our weakest players.

Scottrf wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Scottrf wrote:You think he wanted to hit the kick from that far out? Fair play for the discipline, but you don't want to be hitting a 45 metre drop goal in the wet to win. It's a tired, inexperienced French team. If you can't get closer, it should be worrying as much as an amazing play.

You get what you can get.  You seriously think the Irish players couldn't have done 10 or 15 more metres?

You start to balance the probabilities of Nigel calling a penalty against you.  That game/move they played is on a very unforgiving timer.  The longer you engage in trying something, the higher the chances are that you'll make a mistake every bit as much as the opposition might.  So you're balancing how much luck do you think you have left.

It was a perfect execution and had it not worked I would have been unhappy of course but I wouldn't have been against the attempt.  It's all they had left and to a man, they went for it.  Best bit of Irish combined skill and thinking in years.  Serious team.  Dull...but serious.

Exactly. They judged that a really improbable kick was preferable to making 10 metres against a poor, tired French team.

Well there you go... we agree. Working through the probabilities. When might our luck run out? I'm not going to chance more of this...give me the ball...here goes nothing...................... Feck me! I did it!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think it's unfair to say POM was weak on Saturday, he was his usual self in the lineout, did the dirty work at the breakdown and won a turnover too at one point did he not?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Was O'Mahony actually playing? Probably Ireland's quietest player. I was at the game and he was literally anonymous for 83 minutes.

Is it described as unseen as it literally didn't exist? Does the unseen also apply to O'Mahony non-existent effort to tackle Tomas as he cut in field and ran past him? Thought he was one of our weakest players.

Yeah POM has always been a bluffer. It's about time Schmidt spotted him letting other players carry him through games and knock him off the team for good.

marty2086 wrote:Think it's unfair to say POM was weak on Saturday, he was his usual self in the lineout, did the dirty work at the breakdown and won a turnover too at one point did he not?

Guns didn't see those things...there was a lovely French lady sitting next to him and he was all a blush

SecretFly wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Was O'Mahony actually playing? Probably Ireland's quietest player. I was at the game and he was literally anonymous for 83 minutes.

Is it described as unseen as it literally didn't exist? Does the unseen also apply to O'Mahony non-existent effort to tackle Tomas as he cut in field and ran past him? Thought he was one of our weakest players.

Yeah POM has always been a bluffer.  It's about time Schmidt spotted him letting other players carry him through games and knock him off the team for good.

No he is not a bluffer he is a good player. Definitely good enough to play for Ireland. However he often attracts unwarrented praise.

SecretFly wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Think it's unfair to say POM was weak on Saturday, he was his usual self in the lineout, did the dirty work at the breakdown and won a turnover too at one point did he not?

Guns didn't see those things...there was a lovely French lady sitting next to him and he was all a blush

There was an old French dude beside me who was full of chat. The French are great. Very positive experience.

Scottrf wrote:Drop goal aside, 30 metres in 40 phases is very poor.

Ah here...

Drop goal aside, retrieving a drop out cleanly outside your 22, and then making 62 passes not once dropped across the entire team, including a kick-pass under pressure, where you’re facing the opposition team spread right across the field making tackle after tackle in a superb defensive wall for 311 secs, 2.5 mins after the clock has gone red to receive the ball and hit it cleanly straight through the posts is a bit better than very poor.

I suspect, Scott, that when Armstrong stepped onto the moon, you probably would have said - ‘Dreadful, he didn’t even wipe his feet’. There’s no pleasing some people.

Or as one Kiwi fan opined on another site - ‘41 phases? The ABs would have got that in ten.’

It was a blunt attacking display. Like I've said, full credit to Sexton but you made a poor French side look good.

The French won 3 games last year
Wales, Scotland and England will not find it easy.

Away wins away are like hens teeth.
Ignoring Italy only Ireland have one

After next week only 2 teams will be undefeated and one of them is Ireland
We can and will improve and unlike Wales and England we played in poor conditions against a credible defence.
They played in perfect conditions against poor defences - big difference

There were 66% away wins. Saying ignoring Italy, only Ireland have one is a bit silly in the first week. I do agree on away wins but lets see if England make the French defence look so good.

Scottrf wrote:It was a blunt attacking display. Like I've said, full credit to Sexton but you made a poor French side look good.

If you’re now applying your comments to the whole match, then I’m more inclined to agree with you.

However, you were talking about the end of a match where the team bus is parked for the last couple of minutes on your 22 to prevent you moving forward and you darent give the ball away is a different matter.

But hey if you think differently, that’s fine.

Scottrf wrote:There were 66% away wins. Saying ignoring Italy, only Ireland have one is a bit silly in the first week. I do agree on away wins but lets see if England make the French defence look so good.

Scott its not like England were on fire against Italy. Ireland put 53 points on them last year in Italy and 43 the year before. England 31 this year and 21 the year before.

My point is some teams do better against certain teams and worse against others.

There were was one away last year and only two the year before
That is out of a total of 10 matches.

As I say, in recent years hens teeth, and the fact Ireland have one is invaluable.
Also a record of only 1 defeat in the last 11 - including winning the last 8 is none too shabby.
Also the fixtures fall for us - 3 home games in a row.
England have a much harder set of fixtures prior to any supposed final week decider.

It's the better set of fixtures for England this year. Doesn't mean it's a certainty to come down to the last weekend.

Based on performances so far Wales must surely be favorites. Given the Scarlets are pro 12 champions, playing great rugby and motoring in the champions cup I can see Wales coming very close this year.

Given how they played I'd be surprised at this point should they beat england on saturday.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Given how they played I'd be surprised at this point should they beat england on saturday.

Why? They played really well! I can see Wales winning albeit England should still be favorites.

I thought they were underwhelming to be honest. Incredibly even with scotland even though they're getting a right kicking. I was a bit worried about about their scrum but the weekend.eased that a bit from my mind. Their best chance is to play a bit loose offload and go wide and I think that'll play into englands hands.

I have noticed a distinct shift in the appreciation of what good rugby is in recent times.  The marketing of rugby union and the rule changes of rugby union is I suppose to promote a fast loose game with the importance of all the other bits and pieces (lineout, phase play even scrums "Boring!!") demoted.

The marketing and the rules seems to be working.  Fans now think that all games Must involve strike running and offloading and endless zoom, zoom, zoom.  
Last week had two ultra easy zoom, zoom games for Wales and England.  Anyone who says they weren't easy or that it was touch and go (as one English poster was saying about the English game) are just fooling themselves to put their exploits in a better/more competitive framework.  It's not reassuring to admit that the opposition didn't put up a serious fight - but that's the truth of it.  Yet all the 'teams of the weekend' are being judged on zoom zoom stuff still, because that's how rugby union is appreciated now.  (The Leagueisation of Rugby Union if you will)  

Meanwhile, as I keep saying and won't be sidetracked on - the only real 6N Test of hard traditional rugby, where both sides seemed to pretty much cancel each other out in the middle, was the French v Ireland game.  It's quite funny that anybody might claim that the challenge France put up to Ireland was easily comparable with the fight Scotland and Italy put up... in dry, perfect conditions.  

I love the champagne stuff too but the tolerance levels for anything other than champagne stuff is dying fast amongst supposed Rugby Union lovers.  We're supposed to love Union because it IS different to League.  It's a different game.  The 'bums on seats' strategists seem to be winning though.  A new rule will be that only six phases are allowed before you must kick it away.   Poor Johnny...............

SecretFly wrote: It's quite funny that anybody might claim that the challenge France put up to Ireland was easily comparable with the fight Scotland and Italy put up... in dry, perfect conditions.  

I haven't. I've just claimed that they aren't a top side, or as good as Ireland made them look. They are obviously better than Italy, or how Scotland played.

Scottrf wrote:

SecretFly wrote: It's quite funny that anybody might claim that the challenge France put up to Ireland was easily comparable with the fight Scotland and Italy put up... in dry, perfect conditions.  

I haven't. I've just claimed that they aren't a top side, or as good as Ireland made them look. They are obviously better than Italy, or how Scotland played.

Did England not make Italy look better than they are too?

Absolutely. England are tending to start tournaments slowly but the long injury break and too much kicking stalled momentum.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

Scottrf wrote:

SecretFly wrote: It's quite funny that anybody might claim that the challenge France put up to Ireland was easily comparable with the fight Scotland and Italy put up... in dry, perfect conditions.  

I haven't. I've just claimed that they aren't a top side, or as good as Ireland made them look. They are obviously better than Italy, or how Scotland played.

Did England not make Italy look better than they are too?

In their biggest loss in a year? I suppose you could argue that, not as convincing as the idea that Ireland made France look better than they are.

eirebilly wrote:What I found even more excellent than the DG itself was that Sexton was down with cramp only 5mins prior to that DG. He was clearly struggling and was stretching his leg at every possible moment. To pick yourself up after a cramp and 80mins rugby to kick a DG from that far out is simply sublime and a deserved match winning contribution.

Some might say he was trying to trick the French into thinking there was no DG coming.