6 Nations:Ireland v Scotland - An Craic Mór - 10 Mar 2018

First topic message reminder :

Forget the Tiddlywinks at Twickers, this one’s the proper test match with soaring Scotland taking on their Ivernian cousins.  

Ireland have it all to do on their home turf to keep their championship tilt going, and Scotland have the bit between their teeth to snatch it from them and head into the final round ready to rack up a cricket score against the hapless Italians to try reach top of the table.

Scotland started cold and lost heavily to Wales but now they’ve got their game together, they could be on a roll.  But as their coach has pointed out, their away record in the last decade has been dismal.  That’s the hurdle they have to overcome.  They have the players, the skills, and a successful game plan if they can beat Ireland at their own game at the breakdown.  

Ireland started without a few players like O’Brien, Ringrose, and then lost Furlong, Henderson and Henshaw.  All the replacements stood up - VdF, Leavy, Farrell, Porter, Ryan - and then a couple of them got injured.  But the timing looks good as Furlong, Henderson, and Ringrose are ready to re-enter the fray.  O’Brien could be back for the final round.  

Schmidt has some thinking to do on how he can outwit Townsend - attempting 60-70% possession with constant pick and goes isn’t going to cut it.  Will Sexton have his kicking boots back?   Will yet another midfield continue to weaken the defensive line?   On the other hand, will Russell turn from hero to zero if his looping passes fail to hit their target and Fall into the hands of Stockdale or Earls instead?

Both sides haven’t been shy about scoring, although they go about it in completely different ways.   Let’s see if they can keep it up.

Paddies

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 81 caps
14. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 65 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 11 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 5 caps
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 7 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 71 caps
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 62 caps

1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 76 caps
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 109 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 21 caps
4. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 6 caps
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 56 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 45 caps
7. Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps
8. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 21 caps

Replacements
16. Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 59 caps
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster) 45 caps
18. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 36 caps
20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 18 caps
21. Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 19 caps
22. Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 8 caps
23. Jordan Larmour (St Mary's College/Leinster) 1 cap

Lovely Scotsmen

Whiffy Tops
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors), Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh), Huw Jones Glasgow Warriors), Sean Maitland (Saracens), Peter Horne (Glasgow Warriors), Finn Russsell (Glasgow Warriors), Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne),
Beautiful Rumblers
Gordon Reid (London Irish), Stuart McInally (Edinburgh), Simon Berghan (Edinburgh), Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh), Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors), John Barclay (Scarlets, captain), Hamish Watson Edinburgh), Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors).
Extras:
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors), Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors), Willem Nel (Edinburgh), Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors), David Denton (Worcester Warriors), Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors), Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors), Lee Jones (Glasgow Warriors).

eirebilly wrote:Toner is either a starter or not in the squad for me. He is hardly an impact player.

I disagree Billy. When you say impact do you mean dynamic ball carrying impact? Sometimes you just want a steady set piece impact...he'll come on and hit ruck after ruck allowing others (Cronin etc) to do their more dynamic thing...

SecretFly wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Toner is either a starter or not in the squad for me. He is hardly an impact player.

A lineout collector is always good at any point in a game, billy.  Maybe Ireland intends being down the Scottish end towards the end of the game, either trying to get a bonus point or trying to save a game with a push-over try?  Lineout security is worth its weight in gold.

And while Ireland will be brining on a giant in Toner, we will be bringing on Tiny Tim who is a midget in international lock standards.

I hear what you're saying, but Joe is starting two dynamic young guns in the second row and it is hard to argue with that.

Who do you put on the bench instead of Toner.

At least we know Toner can cut it at this level and he is a lot more than just a lineout operator.

That looks like a pretty nasty looking pack of forwards to me. Ball carriers all over the place.

Fair points about Toners set piece importance lads but I have always felt that Toner is more better deployed as a starter than a replacement.

He is not dynamic enough in the open for me and that could be important if Ireland are chasing the game. Great that he will not let Ireland down in the set piece but he is not a sub that will impact the game in any other aspect. Just my views though.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Toner is either a starter or not in the squad for me. He is hardly an impact player.

A lineout collector is always good at any point in a game, billy.  Maybe Ireland intends being down the Scottish end towards the end of the game, either trying to get a bonus point or trying to save a game with a push-over try?  Lineout security is worth its weight in gold.

And while Ireland will be brining on a giant in Toner, we will be bringing on Tiny Tim who is a midget in international lock standards.

He's the same height as Kinghorn, I don't really know what that's telling us, but there you go.

Echoing the thoughts of many to say Big Ritchie should be on the bench over tiny Tim.

Kinghorn on the wing may look a bit left field with the pixie available but Ireland, like it or not, still have a very strong kicking game with an emphasis on the kick chase. Tennessee Tam is great in the air both going forward and defensively, the Pixie, not so much. So for me, it makes sense for Blair the Flair to get the nod!

I'll tell you something too, if the Irish defenders have their eyes fixed on Hogg during a counter attack and don't keep an eye on Blair the Flair, he could really hurt them.

tigertattie wrote:Echoing the thoughts of many to say Big Ritchie should be on the bench over tiny Tim.

Kinghorn on the wing may look a bit left field with the pixie available but Ireland, like it or not, still have a very strong kicking game with an emphasis on the kick chase. Tennessee Tam is great in the air both going forward and defensively, the Pixie, not so much. So for me, it makes sense for Blair the Flair to get the nod!

I'll tell you something too, if the Irish defenders have their eyes fixed on Hogg during a counter attack and don't keep an eye on Blair the Flair, he could really hurt them.

It's the unintentional puns that are the best ones.

George Carlin wrote:Rob Kearney? Really?

Can someone tell me a bit more about Dan Leavy?

Pretty formidable front row and set of front row replacments.

He's arguably the best and most consistent back rower in Ireland right now, which is saying something given the depth and quality we have. Not the biggest but has a great work rate, reads the game very well and very strong over the ball.

Possibly he's only in because SOB and VDF got injured but on form he deserves his spot even with a full deck in my opinion.

IanBru wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Echoing the thoughts of many to say Big Ritchie should be on the bench over tiny Tim.

Kinghorn on the wing may look a bit left field with the pixie available but Ireland, like it or not, still have a very strong kicking game with an emphasis on the kick chase. Tennessee Tam is great in the air both going forward and defensively, the Pixie, not so much. So for me, it makes sense for Blair the Flair to get the nod!

I'll tell you something too, if the Irish defenders have their eyes fixed on Hogg during a counter attack and don't keep an eye on Blair the Flair, he could really hurt them.

It's the unintentional puns that are the best ones.

Except he's on the right wing!

So Ringrose/Aki.

Once more onto the breach!

Will this work or won't it?  If is does work then it'll be something different to the Farrell Welsh number a few weeks ago.  Ringrose is a natural evader rather than a puncher-upper - so if he can make evasion work then he'll be a nice tool for Earls or Stockdale to chase after and try to feed off.

Then if Larmour came on later for Kearney................ hmm, are we trying to get our own version of Scotland/WalescumScarlets up and 'running' at International level?  Does Joe now feel he is beginning to get the collection of players around him to mould his side into becoming more like his old Province?

Time will tell...but some of these players' more natural talents are going to be wasted if they are made adapt to the Ireland way more than Ireland adapts to their instincts.

Of course you still need defensive shape and ruthless breakdown stuff at the highest levels of International but Ireland certainly have room and the players have zoom enough to take some of the cautious brake off the beast to let us hunt more.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

IanBru wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Echoing the thoughts of many to say Big Ritchie should be on the bench over tiny Tim.

Kinghorn on the wing may look a bit left field with the pixie available but Ireland, like it or not, still have a very strong kicking game with an emphasis on the kick chase. Tennessee Tam is great in the air both going forward and defensively, the Pixie, not so much. So for me, it makes sense for Blair the Flair to get the nod!

I'll tell you something too, if the Irish defenders have their eyes fixed on Hogg during a counter attack and don't keep an eye on Blair the Flair, he could really hurt them.

It's the unintentional puns that are the best ones.

Except he's on the right wing!

As old Frank would say! It's the way I tell em!

This is far too good natured.

When are we going to start talking about Cian Healy's compulsive bedwetting, the fact that Jonny Sexton looks underneath his bed at night for John Barclay and the fact that someone Irish has almost certainly bonked Wayne Barnes' girlfriend.

Speaking of Wayne Barnes.....here's an extract from a Wayne Barnes interview with JOE.IE a few years ago....it's Kidneys fault he hates Ireland!! (I don't actually think he hates Ireland)

JOE: Speaking of managers, how do you get on with Declan Kidney?

WB: The same as all other managers, though I did have a humorous incident with him last season when the Six Nations game was called off in Paris because of the frozen pitch. I was on the pitch as assistant referee and asked Philippe Saint-Andre would they back the decision to postpone the game.

Saint-Andre immediately said yes, while Declan smiled at me and said “sure you screwed us in Wales last week, you might as well do it again tonight”. All in jest of course.

Nice one Decco!

The cute hoor, semi-serious jest. Only a f**king Munsterman can get away with such 'inoffensive' deviltry!

When is the team announced?

In fact on that Decco thing.... if my memory is accurate enough, I think that meeting was televised.  I mean I think the cameras were on that bunch (coaches and Barnes) as they chatted and I might even remember the moment the 'jest' was spoken and laughing or smiling reactions.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:When is the team announced?

1.45 is what I think Irish Rugby says.....

nope sorry that's an out of date page

Ireland Team & Replacements v Scotland (NatWest 6 Nations Championship, Aviva Stadium, Saturday, March 10, 2.15)

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 81 caps
14. Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster) 65 caps
13. Garry Ringrose (UCD/Leinster) 11 caps
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 5 caps
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 7 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 71 caps
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 62 caps

1. Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 76 caps
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 109 caps
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 21 caps
4. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 6 caps
5. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 56 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 45 caps
7. Dan Leavy (UCD/Leinster) 7 caps
8. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 21 caps

Replacements
16. Sean Cronin (St Mary's College/Leinster) 59 caps
17. Jack McGrath (St Mary's College/Leinster) 45 caps
18. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
19. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 36 caps
20. Jordi Murphy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 18 caps
21. Kieran Marmion (Corinthians/Connacht) 19 caps
22. Joey Carbery (Clontarf/Leinster) 8 caps
23. Jordan Larmour (St Mary's College/Leinster) 1 cap

Big Dev starts! What do Ireland fans make of that team?

Incidentally, I have nearly changed the subject heading of this thread many times to:

6 Nations: Ireland v Scotland - Craic Dealers - 10 Mar 2018

I hope that my restraint in not doing so yet is admired.

George Carlin wrote:This is far too good natured.

When are we going to start talking about Cian Healy's compulsive bedwetting, the fact that Jonny Sexton looks underneath his bed at night for John Barclay and the fact that someone Irish has almost certainly bonked Wayne Barnes' girlfriend.

What we need is John Hayes, Nathan Hines and Ronan O'Gara

too soon?

For Ireland v SA, Nelson Mandela's smack n' craic party pack
https://youtu.be/IxqQe_dBGQA

George Carlin wrote:Big Dev starts! What do Ireland fans make of that team?

I think Joe listens to billy too much and some day, it's going to go bad for us.

Toner on first to get him out of the way when the fireworks start in the second half. I think Billy might be right all along (though I'd never admit such a thing in public) I hope Larmour isn't needed but I still hope he gets time........... at 15.

If he's needed at 15 we're in trouble. But as good a side overall as Ireland can call on right now. Will be interested/nervous to see how Ringrose performs and even more to the point, how his game might allow others to perform around him.

George Carlin wrote:Big Dev starts! What do Ireland fans make of that team?

Looks good to me in the sense that we need to really use the line out plus Henderson gives us big impact off the bench. It also seems like Ryan is now no1 choice at lock and it is him plus AN other depending on the requirement.

The rest is as expected, I'm not convinced Ringrose is match fit but hopefully he can get through most of the game, as Earls shifting to 13 weakens us a fair bit if the Italy game is anything to go by.

Ireland will be vulnerable late on I think so we need to be well up by 60 min to have a chance.

George Carlin wrote:Big Dev starts! What do Ireland fans make of that team?

The talking points are Toner/Henderson, Jordi Murphy/Conan and Larmour/McFadden. I'm happy with the side.


Henderson will probably start against England.

The weather forecast is sh1t I believe, with heavy rain forecast.

So not a game for a chuck about and that will surely favour Ireland. Might also explain why he has picked Toner to start, as a go to Lineout man may be just what the conditions require.

With regards to ringrose, I'm sure I read they were training with carbery 12 aki 13, so can see earls staying on the wing

Can't wait for this game!

I'd be happy with a respectable performance, but if we upset Ireland in Dublin that would top England or the walloping of Australia in the autumn for me.

I reckon 24-21 to Ireland if Scotland lose the first half.

27-20 to Scotland if we win the first half and score first in second.

carpet baboon wrote:With regards to ringrose, I'm sure I read they were training with carbery 12 aki 13, so can see earls staying on the wing

Not if Sexton goes off injured

Well well, Toner starting

Good solid team that for Ireland, one that I certainly think will have the edge over Scotland at home.

rodders wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:With regards to ringrose, I'm sure I read they were training with carbery 12 aki 13, so can see earls staying on the wing

Not if Sexton goes off injured

Well carbery to 10 L'amour to 13 then

carpet baboon wrote:

rodders wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:With regards to ringrose, I'm sure I read they were training with carbery 12 aki 13, so can see earls staying on the wing

Not if Sexton goes off injured

Well carbery to 10 L'amour to 13 then

Now there is a scary thought...

eirebilly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

rodders wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:With regards to ringrose, I'm sure I read they were training with carbery 12 aki 13, so can see earls staying on the wing

Not if Sexton goes off injured

Well carbery to 10 L'amour to 13 then

Now there is a scary thought...

Not scary Billy, it's more rugby erotica.

I rate Larmour highly but at 13? Wing at a stretch for me.

Paddy Wallace sorry Joey Carbery, will be up against it if he plays at 10 against Scotland.

Mr Baboon, Glasgow have just re-signed Mr Alphabetti Spaghetti...they did it just for you.

p.s. could we have a quick window, say from now till 5:30 to allow our Celtic cousins to have a good moan about thuggish targetting of poor Connor Murray's standing leg? Get it out the way nice and early.

eirebilly wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

rodders wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:With regards to ringrose, I'm sure I read they were training with carbery 12 aki 13, so can see earls staying on the wing

Not if Sexton goes off injured

Well carbery to 10 L'amour to 13 then

Now there is a scary thought...

Not scary Billy, it's more rugby erotica.

jimbopip wrote:Mr Baboon, Glasgow have just re-signed Mr Alphabetti Spaghetti...they did it just for you.

p.s. could we have a quick window, say from now till 5:30 to allow our Celtic cousins to have a good moan about thuggish targetting of poor Connor Murray's standing leg? Get it out the way nice and early.

No such player.

We have a Conor Murray.... if that's any help.

Niggly niggly Pot.

You'd be banned from the Glasgow-Luvvies banter page for pedantry if you did that.

jimbopip wrote: Niggly niggly Pot.

You'd be banned from the Glasgow-Luvvies banter page for pedantry if you did that.

Well we needed to get some kind of niggle going, Murray's leg is sooooo yesterday.

What about Sexton's bum?

Isn't that the bit of him that's suspect these days? Will the Scots rearguard him in the tunnel?????

This needs answering before the Irish team step off the bus (two hours late coz the Scots infiltrated the system and got one of their own drivers again!)

In all seriousness, Sexton is rattle-able. He's got a bit of the Dan Biggar about him (though nowhere near as much) where if you get in his face he starts getting angry and moans at the ref.

Either his anger will fuel him to play better, or he gets too frustrated and starts imploding. Hopefully, with his buddy and pal Mr Barnes on the whistle, if he does get rattled he'll have a moan and Ol' Wayne will tell him to shut his gob, thus angering him further and BOOM. There goes Johnny's head

Just a quick question to the Leinster fans out there. Exactly how experienced is Larmour at 13 and has he actually played there for Leinster? Same question for Carbery at 12?

Larmour looks an amazing talent at 15 but against Italy his defence was a bit iffy to say the least (he will get better so no slight on him there) so do people think he is a realistic option at 13 should Ringrose not last the 80? I would shudder to think just how much damage Scotland's midfield would do to Ireland if they were forced to play Carbery at 12 and Larmour at 13 during the match...

tigertattie wrote:In all seriousness, Sexton is rattle-able. He's got a bit of the Dan Biggar about him (though nowhere near as much) where if you get in his face he starts getting angry and moans at the ref.

Either his anger will fuel him to play better, or he gets too frustrated and starts imploding. Hopefully, with his buddy and pal Mr Barnes on the whistle, if he does get rattled he'll have a moan and Ol' Wayne will tell him to shut his gob, thus angering him further and BOOM. There goes Johnny's head  

Good plan actually. I'm sure the Scottish lads will be trying their best to follow through on it.

But Joe being Joe - he's thought about that. Murray has the Scotch tape (of all things) and the valium at the ready. Joe winks and Murray jumps on Johnny.

tigertattie wrote:In all seriousness, Sexton is rattle-able. He's got a bit of the Dan Biggar about him (though nowhere near as much) where if you get in his face he starts getting angry and moans at the ref.

Either his anger will fuel him to play better, or he gets too frustrated and starts imploding. Hopefully, with his buddy and pal Mr Barnes on the whistle, if he does get rattled he'll have a moan and Ol' Wayne will tell him to shut his gob, thus angering him further and BOOM. There goes Johnny's head  

Early in Sexton's career he had the ability to lose his head but these days I think he is far more controlled. Gone are the days when I would shudder if Sexton missed his first kick at goal as his head would drop and he would have a bad game. We saw against Wales that when he missed his kicks, it spurred him on to play some sublime attacking rugby with ball in hand.

I also feel he is now much more in control of his emotions and doesn't let the anger affect him as it used to.

In short, yiz are in trouble

eirebilly wrote:Just a quick question to the Leinster fans out there. Exactly how experienced is Larmour at 13 and has he actually played there for Leinster? Same question for Carbery at 12?

Larmour looks an amazing talent at 15 but against Italy his defence was a bit iffy to say the least (he will get better so no slight on him there) so do people think he is a realistic option at 13 should Ringrose not last the 80? I would shudder to think just how much damage Scotland's midfield would do to Ireland if they were forced to play Carbery at 12 and Larmour at 13 during the match...

I wouldn't shudder - I'd be curious.

Sometimes strange things happen in a 'needs must' world.
Plus... I know Scotland are a very good side - when tails up, a very very good side.
But why should Ireland and Irish players be terrified of them?
Are they terrified of us?

I think Earls would be the one heading in to 13.

I am not saying that Irish players should be terrified of Scotland Fly.

I am more questioning the experience of Carbery at 12 and Larmour at 13. If rumours are true, Schmidt is actually looking at that centre pairing should injuries arise and in his first game for Ireland, Larmour looked iffy in defence and I am not sure Carbery is big enough to defend the 12 channel either.

Its why I think that the exclusion of Marshall or McCloskey from the squad exposes Ireland somewhat in the midfield should injuries arise.

I think Ireland should win this because it is at home and we have a good team/squad and well organised organisation in general. I wouldnt be shocked though if Scotland pulled a rabbit out of the bag though.

I think a lot of the criticism Russell has got is ludicrious, he is a sublime talent and a real worry. Huw Jones anf Hogg too. It does make sense in the way they play that a lot of their players/mananger have played in Sanzar countries/super rugby:

Townsend - Natal Sharks
WP Nell - Cheetahs and Western Province
Sean Maitland - Crusaiders
Finn Russell - Lincoln University, NZ
Huw Jones - Stormers
David Denton - Eastern Province in Port Elizabeth
Simon Berghan - Crusaiders academy

Overall Ireland and Scotland have played 133 times, we are the two teams with the most six nations matches, Scotland have won 67 Ireland 61 and Ireland have a plus 90 points difference. Pretty well matched over 100 years.

To be fair Russell only spent a few months there as a teenager as part of an SRU scholarship, and Denton moved to Edinburgh when he was 17!

I think it is more the style of players we have as opposed to any influence from their times in SANZAR counties.

Also, it's not like the Sharks are renowned for their attacking rugby!

eirebilly wrote:I am not saying that Irish players should be terrified of Scotland Fly.

I am more questioning the experience of Carbery at 12 and Larmour at 13. If rumours are true, Schmidt is actually looking at that centre pairing should injuries arise and in his first game for Ireland, Larmour looked iffy in defence and I am not sure Carbery is big enough to defend the 12 channel either.

Its why I think that the exclusion of Marshall or McCloskey from the squad exposes Ireland somewhat in the midfield should injuries arise.

Yes, he did.  First game for Ireland and it a 6N game where Ireland need a win in every game.  I know you and everyone accepts that he was under a lot of nervous pressure (whether he'd admit to it or not) and that's why I've been saying he should have been in the 23 right the way through.  It's these moments, however long they may be (10 - 15 minutes) in big games of real meaning that will shift the early career nerves quickest.

Ringrose is already in the side because of misfortune.  Joe virtually admitted that.  Ringrose is a needs must player but I trust Schmidt to still have winning the game in mind and trust his trust in Ringrose to get a job done.  
So too if Carbury and Larmour had to go to 12 and 13.  I assume training has guided Schmidt in that decision were it to come about.  It would be another needs must decision but well............ you have to learn what you have not just for now in the 6N but further down towards the WC.  

There is not so much leverage to pick and choose players at that event.  So you'll have the players you want with you and if injuries happen through those tough games, then the players you have with you have to quickly fill spots they never dreamed they'd have to fill.  But those are the player you have with you.  Without a shadow of a doubt, if fit, Carbury will be at the WC.  Larmour is less certain a pick at this point but we all know what he has the potential to be so he's up there in Joe's thoughts too.