Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

by Tramptastic Mon 30 Apr 2018, 1:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Sunday 10th June 2018

Canada Vs Scotland

Sunday 17th June 2018

America Vs Scotland

Saturday 23rd June 2018

Argentina Vs Scotland

With an eye on the summer tour, whilst also keeping in mind the season isn't over for either of our pro teams - who would you "rest" for the summer tour and who would you bring along in their place?

I'd leave Russell, Price, WP Nel, Hogg, Dunbar, Barclay and Huw Jones purely because those guys have had extremely long seasons, are coming back from long term injuries and/or rarely (if ever) get a full pre-season with their clubs under their belts.

Dunbar is made of glass and could probably do with a summer of conditioning, same with WP Nel

Hogg, Jones and Russell have all had long seasons (lions tours/southern hemisphere seasons) and look a bit jaded.

Price is just off form and could do with some down time.

Barclay is getting on - would not like to injure our captain against America/Canada

With a world cup next year giving all of these guys a full pre-season could pay off in the long term.

Would also allow Townsend to have a closer look at Kinghorn, SHC/Horne (ideally take both and tell Fowles to f3ck off), Grigg, Chris Dean/Johnston/Bennett, Fagerson/Berghan/Mccalum, Bradbury.

Thoughts?

by **RDW** Fri 18 May 2018, 8:50 am

Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0 - Page 3 F10

BBC will be showing the USA and Canada games and Channel 4 (!) will be showing Argentina. Will be interesting to see what Channel 4's coverage is like as we'll be seeing a lot more of it next season!

by **BigGee** Fri 18 May 2018, 9:57 pm

We may well be looking for a new captain and back row player for the tour this summer. Hard to see John Barclay being fit now, he looked in a lot of trouble coming off.

In all honesty a summer off probably won't do him any harm either.

I wonder if Toonie might give Gary Graham a call and see if he does fancy playing for Scotland now that England have blanked him.

by **RDW** Fri 18 May 2018, 10:05 pm

JB was never in the squad Biggee...

by **BigGee** Fri 18 May 2018, 10:16 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:JB was never in the squad Biggee...

Good point!

by **RDW** Fri 18 May 2018, 10:25 pm

BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:JB was never in the squad Biggee...

Good point!

Few wines tonight??

by tigertattie Mon 21 May 2018, 11:07 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:JB was never in the squad Biggee...

Good point!
Few wines tonight??

I think the issue was that he hadn't had enough!

by **BigGee** Mon 21 May 2018, 11:12 am

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:JB was never in the squad Biggee...

Good point!
Few wines tonight??

I think the issue was that he hadn't had enough!

I could never have had enough after a Glasgow performance like that!

by **RDW** Mon 21 May 2018, 3:34 pm

So how worried are we about Glasgow's end of season collapse from a Scotland PoV? Will the physicality and hardness that the Edinburgh pack bring steady the ship or could we be in for an uncomfortable summer?

by EWT Spoons Mon 21 May 2018, 5:01 pm

Don't think it will be an issue. Edinburgh/exiles will provide the majority of the pack, which is probably the weakest part of Glasgow's game currently

by **BigGee** Mon 21 May 2018, 5:34 pm

a lot of the more jaded Glasgow players have been given the summer off.

by **BigGee** Tue 22 May 2018, 9:36 am

Apparently Eddie Jones is sniffing round to seen if he can pick up Matt Taylor as his new defence coach after Gustard has left the England set up and taken over at Quins.

That would certainly be a blow to Scotland right on the back of losing Dan McFarland.

You would imagine though that he will have a nine month notice period on his contract as well, in the same way that DM did and that the SRU would not be in any hurry to let him go this close to a WC. They should play hard ball on this one and make him see out his contract.

EJ just seems to think he can buy in any coach he wants. Shaun Edwards is also in the frame if you listen to other press rumours.

by **RDW** Tue 22 May 2018, 9:39 am

Scotland definitely need McFarland and Taylor more than they need the money from a buyout - I really hope it is just rumours. We definitely need to play hardball if not.

We need stability going into the WC!

by **RDW** Tue 22 May 2018, 9:48 am

Just realised there were 4 'needs' in that post...we obviously really need it!

by EWT Spoons Tue 22 May 2018, 10:11 am

Shaun Wane (Wigan Warriors coach) is apparently being tipped with a move to join up with Toonie. If Taylor is away, then i guess that rumour could make sense

by Hazel Sapling Tue 22 May 2018, 10:41 am

So no Barclay. He is going to struggle to be ready for the World Cup. Achilles injuries never leave you with the same athleticism especially as he ages. Hopefully he can come back.

Pierre Schoeman: Is he committed or not? Sounds motivated until the line, "If he gets a Springboks call, he will deal with it at the time." Has the right attitude for Cockers if he walks the walk, not just talks the talk. Be available for 2023 World Cup if he becomes good enough.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44193771

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 22 May 2018, 11:14 am

Gutting for Barclay, but great opportunity for others.

Hamilton plays at 6 a fair bit at Leicester as I understand it, him and Watson would cause a fair bit of trouble on the flanks.

Let's remember Blade Thomson who will be in country soon, though isn't without his own injury problems but may fill a hole at 8. Could be a bolter, but we already have a few good youngsters waiting in the wings. Matt Fagerson could be considered at 6 of course, Crosbie is coming along nicely and Ritchie should be at least in the 23 this summer anyway.

Bradbury - despite his recent poor form is a better player than that and if he pulls around he could be in the race too.

by **BigGee** Tue 22 May 2018, 11:36 am

No, we are not without depth in the back row now and life will go on without JB, starting this summer.

A few players on the tour in June will get a chance to put down their markers.

by IanBru Tue 22 May 2018, 11:41 am

EWT Spoons wrote:Shaun Wane (Wigan Warriors coach) is apparently being tipped with a move to join up with Toonie. If Taylor is away, then i guess that rumour could make sense

I'm so sorry everyone but...
Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0 - Page 3 Giphy

by tigertattie Tue 22 May 2018, 12:01 pm

IanBru wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:Shaun Wane (Wigan Warriors coach) is apparently being tipped with a move to join up with Toonie. If Taylor is away, then i guess that rumour could make sense

I'm so sorry everyone but...

can you imagine if someone did that in a film these days???

You'd be getting chased by a whole reem of folk (including but not limited to):
NSPCC
Save the Children
Operation Yew tree
Esther Ranson

by **RDW** Tue 22 May 2018, 12:03 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Gutting for Barclay, but great opportunity for others.

Hamilton plays at 6 a fair bit at Leicester as I understand it, him and Watson would cause a fair bit of trouble on the flanks.

Let's remember Blade Thomson who will be in country soon, though isn't without his own injury problems but may fill a hole at 8. Could be a bolter, but we already have a few good youngsters waiting in the wings. Matt Fagerson could be considered at 6 of course, Crosbie is coming along nicely and Ritchie should be at least in the 23 this summer anyway.

Bradbury - despite his recent poor form is a better player than that and if he pulls around he could be in the race too.

Bradbury had a great season run-in with Edinburgh and picked up a MOTM award. His carrying isn’t as standout as it used to be but his all-round game is much better and he’s got a few key turnovers for us.

He’s certainly one of the form back rowers in the squad.

by **BigGee** Tue 22 May 2018, 1:20 pm

tigertattie wrote:
IanBru wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:Shaun Wane (Wigan Warriors coach) is apparently being tipped with a move to join up with Toonie. If Taylor is away, then i guess that rumour could make sense

I'm so sorry everyone but...

can you imagine if someone did that in a film these days???

You'd be getting chased by a whole reem of folk (including but not limited to):
NSPCC
Save the Children
Operation Yew tree
Esther Ranson

My old uncle told me a story about school swimming lessons in Glasgow back in the 1920s.

An open air outdoor pool, can't imagine it was very warm, with all the boys lined up along the side of the pool.

Teachers says, 'how many of you know how to swim?'

About half the hands went up and they were told to jump in, which they did.

He then turns to the rest of them and says 'you boys now jump in and the boys in the water will show you how to swim!'

Everyone jumped in, nobody drowned!

Things were a lot simpler then! Even allowing for a little bit of embellishment, that was probably not that far from the truth!

I just think of the amount of money I spent on swimming lessons for my kids!

by **RDW** Tue 22 May 2018, 1:50 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:So no Barclay. He is going to struggle to be ready for the World Cup. Achilles injuries never leave you with the same athleticism especially as he ages. Hopefully he can come back.

Pierre Schoeman: Is he committed or not? Sounds motivated until the line, "If he gets a Springboks call, he will deal with it at the time." Has the right attitude for Cockers if he walks the walk, not just talks the talk. Be available for 2023 World Cup if he becomes good enough.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44193771

Oh wow he's certainly got high aspirations and plenty confidence!

He's got great pedigree but we'll have to wait and see what happens - Oli Kebble did too and he's been a spare part this season.

by tigertattie Wed 23 May 2018, 10:46 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:So no Barclay. He is going to struggle to be ready for the World Cup. Achilles injuries never leave you with the same athleticism especially as he ages. Hopefully he can come back.

Pierre Schoeman: Is he committed or not? Sounds motivated until the line, "If he gets a Springboks call, he will deal with it at the time." Has the right attitude for Cockers if he walks the walk, not just talks the talk. Be available for 2023 World Cup if he becomes good enough.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44193771

Oh wow he's certainly got high aspirations and plenty confidence!

He's got great pedigree but we'll have to wait and see what happens - Oli Kebble did too and he's been a spare part this season.

Yeah but Kebble went to Weegieland where forwards go to die!

Apparently the Glasgow forwards have been given a few practice sessions with with Govan Rugby Football club's woman's 3rd XV to try to bring Glasgow up to the their level.

Good luck ladies.

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 24 May 2018, 10:52 am

Hoping Russell gets some time for the barbarians, might be just the ticket for him to get the fire back. No pressure just a friendly game with different players. He needs to perk his ideas up before he joins Racing.

by bsando Thu 24 May 2018, 2:09 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Hoping Russell gets some time for the barbarians, might be just the ticket for him to get the fire back. No pressure just a friendly game with different players. He needs to perk his ideas up before he joins Racing.

I really want to get a ticket for this, Laidlaw and Russell running the show with a fantastic backline packed with Pacific Islanders! It's gonna be a great Match!

by bsando Thu 24 May 2018, 2:15 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Shaun Wane (Wigan Warriors coach) is apparently being tipped with a move to join up with Toonie. If Taylor is away, then i guess that rumour could make sense

Big fan of Taylor, but it could be a good thing for Scotland to have a new Defence coach (sooner rather than later due to RWC) who can freshen up Scotland's defensive systems a bit. Two years in a row Scotland's stats in defence say a lot in the 6N. Compared with Ireland, England and Wales we leak a lot of soft try's. When Scotland get it right it's great (Scotland 29 - 0 Italy last year). But it is definitely one area of Scotland's game that needs to improve and be at a similar level to Wales and Ireland.

by bsando Thu 24 May 2018, 2:26 pm

bsando wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:Shaun Wane (Wigan Warriors coach) is apparently being tipped with a move to join up with Toonie. If Taylor is away, then i guess that rumour could make sense

Big fan of Taylor, but it could be a good thing for Scotland to have a new Defence coach (sooner rather than later due to RWC) who can freshen up Scotland's defensive systems a bit. Two years in a row Scotland's stats in defence say a lot in the 6N. Compared with Ireland, England and Wales we leak a lot of soft try's. When Scotland get it right it's great (Scotland 29 - 0 Italy last year). But it is definitely one area of Scotland's game that needs to improve and be at a similar level to Wales and Ireland.

Astonishingly, having just had a quick look at 6N stats, Scotland have not conceded under 100 points in the 6N since 2006 when they Scored 78 points and conceded 81!!?! Every year since then they have conceded over 100 points.

by **RDW** Thu 24 May 2018, 3:16 pm

Alex Dunbar ruled out injured - Bennett to replace him.

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 24 May 2018, 3:58 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Alex Dunbar ruled out injured - Bennett to replace him.

Better deal IMHO - Dunbar is well past his best I think and an injury liability. If Bennett gets a chance I think it could help bring on his old form.

by tigertattie Thu 24 May 2018, 4:23 pm

Anyone know what channel the baa baa's game is on (if at all)

by **RDW** Thu 24 May 2018, 4:27 pm

Sky Sports I think

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 24 May 2018, 4:27 pm

tigertattie wrote:Anyone know what channel the baa baa's game is on (if at all)

Usually on Sky Sports if it's England - I know the highlights will be on the Beeb

by **BigGee** Thu 24 May 2018, 5:14 pm

I am getting a bit worried about Dunbar's career prospects, he seems unable to string any games together, been like that for a couple of seasons really. Hopefully a summer at home and a full pre season will work the trick for him.

Bennett was definitely coming back into his old form towards the end of the season and is the right man to replace him. A run out in a Scotland shirt after all he has been through could be a great shot in the arm for him.

by EWT Spoons Fri 25 May 2018, 8:39 am

I think Bennett has been called up purely on reputation rather than form.

He's not been all that good this season. For clarity not a criticism, he's come back from a 2nd (3rd?) serious knee injury and is going to take some time to get back to his old self again, which is something he's alluded to as well.

If an Edinburgh centre was to go, I would have thought Dean would have been ahead of him, he's played well consistently this season and probably deserves it more.

No issue with Bennett going though as it might help him rediscover his old form, but I would rather he got a decent rest ahead of preseason.

by **RDW** Fri 25 May 2018, 8:43 am

Yeah Dean has been the better performer but he's never had a look in at any Scotland squad of late. Hopefully he's not another top club player who is never in favour for Scotland for whatever reason. He should ask his forwards coach how that feels!

by EWT Spoons Fri 25 May 2018, 9:17 am

I suppose with Dean, he's only 24, so time is on his side, and this season is probably the first time he's really justified being part of the conversation.

If he continues this form into next then he'll surely get a chance, however he's going to have a lot of competition next year at Edinburgh, which has perhaps not been so much an issue this season.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 25 May 2018, 9:55 am

EWT Spoons wrote:I suppose with Dean, he's only 24, so time is on his side, and this season is probably the first time he's really justified being part of the conversation.

If he continues this form into next then he'll surely get a chance, however he's going to have a lot of competition next year at Edinburgh, which has perhaps not been so much an issue this season.

If he's playing at inside centre he may get a chance sooner rather than later, as I feel we're a bit thin on the ground in that area.

by **BigGee** Fri 25 May 2018, 10:00 am

Talking of inside centres. No England debut for Cameron Redpath this summer as he has done his ACL

That is him out for 6-9 months

Maybe he will see sense and 're consider who he might want to play for!

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 25 May 2018, 10:04 am

BigGee wrote:Talking of inside centres. No England debut for Cameron Redpath this summer as he has done his ACL

That is him out for 6-9 months

Maybe he will see sense and 're consider who he might want to play for!

Never nice to hear that - especially prior to his first season as a professional.

In my opinion he'll stick to his guns with England, provided the opportunity is there. Fairplay to him if that's what he wants to do, as long as they treat him well I'm happy for him.

by Hazel Sapling Fri 25 May 2018, 11:26 am

Horrible for Redpath. Hopefully he makes a full recovery. Is that another training injury under Jones?

Bad news for Sale as well. May push the Jackson/Olding signings a bit closer. Strange that they are going to the same club. Thought they would be better off having a fresh start away from each other.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 25 May 2018, 12:37 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Horrible for Redpath. Hopefully he makes a full recovery. Is that another training injury under Jones?

Bad news for Sale as well. May push the Jackson/Olding signings a bit closer. Strange that they are going to the same club. Thought they would be better off having a fresh start away from each other.

Probably a BOGOF offer from their agent to get them off his hands.

by **RDW** Fri 25 May 2018, 12:39 pm

Really was ridiculous that Redpath was in the senior squad and Marcus Smith was in the under 20s given the former has barely played senior rugby and Smith was a star performer for quins all season!

Real shame for Redpath - hope he recovers OK.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 25 May 2018, 1:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Really was ridiculous that Redpath was in the senior squad and Marcus Smith was in the under 20s given the former has barely played senior rugby and Smith was a star performer for quins all season!

Real shame for Redpath - hope he recovers OK.

I suspect it may be like Blair Kinghorn a season ago when he got held back from joining the senior squad to bolster the U20s. Though yeah agree it is utterly bizarre behaviour from Jones, he seems to really have a bee in his bonnet about Scottish Rugby.

by Hazel Sapling Fri 25 May 2018, 3:28 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Really was ridiculous that Redpath was in the senior squad and Marcus Smith was in the under 20s given the former has barely played senior rugby and Smith was a star performer for quins all season!

Real shame for Redpath - hope he recovers OK.

I suspect it may be like Blair Kinghorn a season ago when he got held back from joining the senior squad to bolster the U20s. Though yeah agree it is utterly bizarre behaviour from Jones, he seems to really have a bee in his bonnet about Scottish Rugby.

Scotland did start the collapse. Went from fairly invincible to losers of 3 in a row. Got abused by 3 Scots on a train. There is probably a 3rd reason

by **RDW** Sun 27 May 2018, 6:55 pm

Russell did well in his most suited team with the Barbarians today when they pumped England. 7/7 kicks for him too!

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 27 May 2018, 7:57 pm

Delighted for him, sounds like it was a real humdinger too, something like 12 tries?

Hopefully he's back on the straight and narrow looking ahead to next season but he deserves a good summer off.

by lostinwales Sun 27 May 2018, 10:16 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Horrible for Redpath. Hopefully he makes a full recovery. Is that another training injury under Jones?

Bad news for Sale as well. May push the Jackson/Olding signings a bit closer. Strange that they are going to the same club. Thought they would be better off having a fresh start away from each other.

Redpath apparently injured before joining the England camp. Obano however.. (shudder)

Re: Marcus Smith. Interesting choice putting him in the U20's but maybe the feeling was that he was going to be a spare part on tour anyway.

by **RDW** Mon 28 May 2018, 12:11 pm

Richie Gray has been ruled out of the summer tour - there will be no replacement.

Shame for him that he's got yet another injury - hopefully a full summer of rehab will do him good.

by **BigGee** Mon 28 May 2018, 1:40 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Richie Gray has been ruled out of the summer tour - there will be no replacement.

Shame for him that he's got yet another injury - hopefully a full summer of rehab will do him good.

Tough on RG who has not had a good season through injury.

We probably had one second row to many in any case and it will be good to see Carmichael make his debut now, which he almost certainly will.

Hopefully Richie can spend the summer getting rested and fit for a big year next year.

by tigertattie Tue 29 May 2018, 1:10 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Richie Gray has been ruled out of the summer tour - there will be no replacement.

Shame for him that he's got yet another injury - hopefully a full summer of rehab will do him good.

Surprisingly a few dafties have him ruled out of ever returning to the Scotland set up! At 28 he's now entering his prime as a second row and is not nearing retirement for crying out loud!

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