Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

First topic message reminder :

Sunday 10th June 2018

Canada Vs Scotland

Sunday 17th June 2018

America Vs Scotland

Saturday 23rd June 2018

Argentina Vs Scotland



With an eye on the summer tour, whilst also keeping in mind the season isn't over for either of our pro teams - who would you "rest" for the summer tour and who would you bring along in their place?

I'd leave Russell, Price, WP Nel, Hogg, Dunbar, Barclay and Huw Jones purely because those guys have had extremely long seasons, are coming back from long term injuries and/or rarely (if ever) get a full pre-season with their clubs under their belts.

Dunbar is made of glass and could probably do with a summer of conditioning, same with WP Nel

Hogg, Jones and Russell have all had long seasons (lions tours/southern hemisphere seasons) and look a bit jaded.

Price is just off form and could do with some down time.

Barclay is getting on - would not like to injure our captain against America/Canada

With a world cup next year giving all of these guys a full pre-season could pay off in the long term.

Would also allow Townsend to have a closer look at Kinghorn, SHC/Horne (ideally take both and tell Fowles to f3ck off), Grigg, Chris Dean/Johnston/Bennett, Fagerson/Berghan/Mccalum, Bradbury.

Thoughts?

Exactly, if he stays fit he has another complete WC cycle in him. Still our starting second row if fit, though some of the new guys may start to push him a bit harder now.

I the great scheme of things, missing this tour could be a decent thing for him and will leave him in much better shape for next year.

Richie is still invaluable to the lineout IMO - when he's come on from the bench he's made an instant impact in that area of the set piece and it's a part of his game that has been historically strong.

Until we get another second rower who is a great lineout operator, he'd still be in my squad if fit.

Fit and on form I'd have Ritchie as my first choice lock, especially since he's really added physicality to his game while in France.

Our lineout has been wobbly of late so his height would help with that too.

How are the u20's expected to do?

2 Paris-based and 4 English-based players in the 23 for Italy. Guy Graham is following in his brother's footsteps playing in the u20s.

Hazel Sapling wrote:How are the u20's expected to do?

2 Paris-based and 4 English-based players in the 23 for Italy. Guy Graham is following in his brother's footsteps playing in the u20s.

Decent review here:

https://www.scottishrugbyblog.co.uk/2018/05/world-rugby-u20-championship-2018-scotland-squad/

Grant Stewart apparently travelling out to Canada with the Scotland squad to Canada, according to Mark Palmer. 4 hookers seems a little bit overkill, does that mean there is an injury they are worrying about, or do they just want to give him a bit of exposure.

He played pretty well for Glasgow when he got the game time and looks a reasonable prospect.

apparently turner was struggling before he left, I assume he's not fully recovered.

For anyone interested the u20s game against Italy, is being streamed live at 5.30 (uk time) on the World Rugby website.

EWT Spoons wrote:For anyone interested the u20s game against Italy, is being streamed live at 5.30 (uk time) on the World Rugby website.

Have a bad feeling we may get battered by Italy - their u20 contingent is probably the best Italian side I've seen. After his spells at Gloucester and Sale Redpath doesn't fill me with hope as a coach either...

Should be an interesting gauge of where we are with our up-and-coming talent though.

Apparently it is McInally who is carrying an injury and that is why Grant has gone out with the squad.

Hopefully it is just a precaution, McInally has earned the chance to captain his country. Grant will only benefit from the experience of being with the squad but I don't think he is genuinely international ready just yet.

BigGee wrote:Apparently it is McInally who is carrying an injury and that is why Grant has gone out with the squad.

Hopefully it is just a precaution, McInally has earned the chance to captain his country. Grant will only benefit from the experience of being with the squad but I don't think he is genuinely international ready just yet.

He's hardly club level proven yet!

Scotland Shopping list

1. A proper ball carrying No 8
2. A hooker replacement (Brown is struggling with injuries and Ford isn't the future)
3. A 10 replacement (Hoping Hastings does the job)

Other than that, we seem to be doing ok

I really feel we are in the best place as a rugby nation we have been since professionalism started. In the last 2 years we have beaten every team in the top 8 apart from NZ and we pushed them close. We have the best finish in the 6N for years and years. We beat England at full international, u20, u18 and u16 and sevens.
Both pro teams finished well enough in the pro 14 to get into europe
We have decent and settled coaching teams in place
We have no huge money issues
We have no club v country issues
Support is rising
We seem to have a stream of good young players coming thru
the core of the team will be there not just for this WC but the next one

TJ wrote:I really feel we are in the best place as a rugby nation we have been since professionalism started.  In the last 2 years we have beaten every team in the top 8 apart from NZ and we pushed them close.  We have the best finish in the 6N for years and years.  We beat England at full international, u20, u18 and u16 and sevens.  
Both pro teams finished well enough in the pro 14 to get into europe
We have decent and settled coaching teams in place
We have no huge money issues
We have no club v country issues
Support is rising
We seem to have a stream of good young players coming thru
the core of the team will be there not just for this WC but the next one

yes but we can't get complacent! We need to push on in a big way.

For example, I can counter that we've not had the successes that we should have had

We've not won the 6ns
the Clubs have gone trophyless and have no euro form for a few years
We've never got further than the Q/F at the world cup
We've never beaten a S/H team in a tournament
We can't win away from home for love nor money (unless we're playing Italy)

I just hope that this isn't a purple patch and that we've finally clawed our way up to parity with the other nations since going professional.

tigertattie wrote:

TJ wrote:I really feel we are in the best place as a rugby nation we have been since professionalism started.  In the last 2 years we have beaten every team in the top 8 apart from NZ and we pushed them close.  We have the best finish in the 6N for years and years.  We beat England at full international, u20, u18 and u16 and sevens.  
Both pro teams finished well enough in the pro 14 to get into europe
We have decent and settled coaching teams in place
We have no huge money issues
We have no club v country issues
Support is rising
We seem to have a stream of good young players coming thru
the core of the team will be there not just for this WC but the next one

yes but we can't get complacent! We need to push on in a big way.

For example, I can counter that we've not had the successes that we should have had

We've not won the 6ns
the Clubs have gone trophyless and have no euro form for a few years
We've never got further than the Q/F at the world cup
We've never beaten a S/H team in a tournament
We can't win away from home for love nor money (unless we're playing Italy)

I just hope that this isn't a purple patch and that we've finally clawed our way up to parity with the other nations since going professional.

Do away wins against Australia not count then?

tigertattie remember the team from ten+ years ago? How we hoped we would actually be competitive and not get thrashed every game? How we couldn't score tries?

Yes a win in the sic n would be a good thing and yes we still need to aim higher but its nice to have realistic hope rather than forlorn hopefullness

As usual, the stream from world rugby site does not seem to be working!

try the facebook page, seems to be working fine

All Scotland so far, but only 3-0 with 14 played

Penalty try Italy 7 - 3

Massive scrum from the italians

13 - 7 to Scotland now.

going to stop updating here as I imagine anyone interested is watching

Keep going Spoons 

Some great broken field running by Scotland in this game, finding gaps with ease.

Italy player yellow carded for a high tackle (round the neck). Right call, no more than a yellow as it was from behind so player wasn't winded etc, not massively dangerous, but clear yellow.  That's not going to help their massive gap issues

HT 13-7

Just saw the second try - they chose a bad option to pass left instead of right (two men outside him with no defenders) but we got there in the end! 

We definitely need to keep this fast and loose (ooh err)

Sco u20s are clearly being asked to play in the same way as the senior team, offloading constantly, running from pretty much everywhere.

All of which is working so far, other than at the scrum. First scrum was pretty even, since then Italy have had the upper hand. They don't look much bigger, but I'm watching on my phone so not the easiest to judge size. Other than at the scrum it's been all Scotland though

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just saw the second try - they chose a bad option to pass left instead of right (two men outside him with no defenders) but we got there in the end! 

We definitely need to keep this fast and loose (ooh err)

Yeah it was an odd call to go inside, I guess though these lads are still young and their decision making will improve as they play more.

Director/Camera person is currently trying to play spot the fan.  I think it's safe to assume Scotland vs Italy, under 20s, mid week isn't a huge draw for the residents of Beziers

EWT Spoons wrote:Sco u20s are clearly being asked to play in the same way as the senior team, offloading constantly, running from pretty much everywhere.

All of which is working so far, other than at the scrum.  First scrum was pretty even, since then Italy have had the upper hand.  They don't look much bigger, but I'm watching on my phone so not the easiest to judge size.  Other than at the scrum it's been all Scotland though

There's definitely a joke in there but it's been a long day and my brain can't think of one!

Our lineout is crap - costing us opportunities. It's our own mistakes too it's not like Italy are stealing it.

13 - 10 Italy Pen.

Italy should be down another player with a deliberate knock on, but ref seems to have let them away with it

lineout still crap

Sco 16-10

Italy back to 15 men

Scotland try, with some nice interplay down the left wing.

23-10

lineouts!

Have we secured a single lineout yet?

I think we got the very first one, but since then, nope

Cracking kick through from Italy resulting in a lovely bounce of the ball and try for Italy.

Well taken try and gather from Italy.

23-17

26-17

Italy try. No idea what position the try scorer plays as he's f'ing massive.

Wing!! f**k me the lad's a beast, I thought hooker or very fast prop.

Anyway 26-22, 15 mins to go. Not sure what's happened in the last 10 mins, but Italy have really stepped up and Scotland haven't responded.

Bit more context for that last bit.

He ran through/over a couple of scotland players on route to the tryline. Given he was on the wing and massive, I assumed it was a hooker on the wing move, but turns out just a winger.

Italy are like a different team these last few mins. Another good break but stopped just before the 10 metre line. Scrum Scotland

Scrum demolished by Italy. They've got a pen right underneath the posts, has to be another scrum...and it is

No idea how we got away with that. Scrum collapsed, Italy went wide, Scotland turned it over though and cleared with a long kick down the wing.

Italy deliberate knocked on again, ref decides this one justifies a card (no idea why the first one was forgiven).

15 vs 14 for last 4 mins

Lineout still sh*t though

scrums & lineouts have not worked in our favour this game, so that's probably contributing to Scotland running everything.

Scrum Scotland, 3 mins to go. in the Italy half

early pushing from Italy, rather than seeing the game out Chapman went quick, messed up ball stolen and now back with Scotland just in our half