6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

First topic message reminder :

Part 1 - https://www.606v2.com/t68214-6-nations-ireland-v-england-2nd-feb-2019

Details:

Date: Saturday 2nd February 2019
Time: 16:45 GMT
Location: Dublin, Aviva Stadium
Media Coverage: ITV, TV3, BBC (highlights only), Radio 5Live


Officials


Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)



Teams

Ireland

15 Robbie Henshaw, 14 Keith Earls, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 Jacob Stockdale, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 1 Cian Healy, 2 Rory Best, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 4 Devin Toner, 5 James Ryan, 6 Peter O'Mahony, 7 Josh van der Flier, 8 CJ Stander.

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Andrew Porter, 19 Quinn Roux, 20 Sean O'Brien, 21 John Cooney, 22 Joey Carbery, 23 Jordan Larmour


England

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 25 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps), 12 Manu Tuiagi (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps), 11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 65 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 32 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 17 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 26 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 27 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 8 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 36 caps).

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps), 19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 68 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 18 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps), 23 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 42 caps).

Not that worried about the refs decisions. England started better, were tactically better and played better throughout. Good value for the win. I enjoyed the game a lot. Slades try at the end was a nice effort. Some poor individual performances from Irish guys but they werent allowed play because they were put under lots of pressure. It will probably be a good kick in the pants to work on improving into the RWC.

I've made a crude guess at making a line to see whether he's offside or not. Drew a line on the pitch along the nearest grass pattern marking (the one just infront of the ball, to the left of May. Then moved it 'back', basically, to a point where I think it's undernearth May's foot.

What's interesting is that I expected it to dissect Slade down the middle - in fact, it's pretty inconclusive. There are other things to consider (the line might not be straight, if you were being particularly accurate you'd factor in the angle change that would occur due to perspective, which would tilt the 'top' end slightly away from Slade/straight then line ever so slightly, but not a huge effect there). But by and large, I think that goes to show - it's not clear and obvious.

The pass though...

Duty281 wrote:It's not 'irrespective of hands' though, as that is how a forward pass is decided. And it's clearly backwards out of the hands, meaning the try is legitimate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylg

The offside was 50-50, of course not helped by the fact the camera angle wasn't perfectly straight.

The ball can still travel forward very obviously despite the 'hands' facing backwards at times of release. As is the case here, but also with things like spills, slips, and knock ons. It's not clearly backwards out of the hands, at best you could argue it is flat.

The only clear thing in all of this is that the ball travels forwards. That's irrefutable. It is thrown 2 yards inside England's half and is caught in Ireland's half.

Ireland choked, the pressure is building on them this RWC year and they choked.

It was nice to be the underdogs for a change, made winning more exciting.

Wonderful to see how gracious sports fans can be when they win. It’s like reading a soccer forum.

Tuilagi did much better at 12 than I thought.  He adjusted his game, and England theirs just enough to get good return in the first half.  Tailed off in the second, and maybe should have come off a bit earlier for someone playing as hard as he did early on whilst getting back up to speed with the international game, but was resolute in defence throughout.  Definitely worth his place over Te'o.

Quality performance from Daly as well.  Didn't doubt his ability running in the line, as 13 is his best position, but was concerned about his ability in the 15 position under the high ball, last up defence and running from deep.  He didn't really get tested in these regards, and have no idea why Ireland weren't peppering him deep all day, but the couple of balls he did have to field he did without any problem.  Hopefully that sets his confidence and the errors of the past continue to fall away.

The main thing for me was that unlike many performances in the last year, England came out of the blocks firing in intensity and accuracy.  Defence was the highlight, and the kicking game not far behind (one of Youngs' best performances in that regard for a while, gamely aided by May's chases).  I'd also thought Ireland would be dominant in the scrum, lineout & breakdown, but England at least matched them in all, as well as maintaing good discipline.  If Jones and the players can maintain this level they'll be a real handful for most.

Was always going to be the case with top lads like the Irish and English on here

miaow wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Yes scotland looked good early with some very good, slick backplay but like france wilted badly second half, but in this case had enough up. Those watching Scotlands last ten where Italy stormed back will gain confidence from that, cos if either their fitness or bench cant carry 80 vs Italy, how will they manage the next four matches? Dont know if it was a first selection but dropping off so poorly wont help their outlook.

Yeah, I think this has to be looked at in context. Scotland got the 4 try bonus and then let off the gas - having 'achieved' what, presumably, was spoken about in the week as the target, they switched off mentally (yay, we've done it) and dropped the intensity that let Italy back into it. You can do all the sports psychology you like, but if you're 30 odd points ahead against Italy, it's presumably an easily done thing/quite hard to keep standards across the board - particularly when, and I don't like the idea of this but it must enter the equation somewhat, you don't want to get injured in what is now effectively a 'done deal'.

Nah as an AB supporter cant agree with that. If you cant be ruthless enough to finish a match on the up then you have major motivation issues. In context, as you say, the better view is Scotland know the measure of how one deals with Italy will be compared and this is likely the only match Scotland is likely to assert any kind of dominance in, and they should have been more ruthless. So I dont think they fell off at all. If they did theyre sunk before theyve started. They sure wont admit that. Its likely now everyone will win bigger against Italy and Scotland lost a good chance to show the others they mean business. Now they just look beatable after 80.

El Radar wrote:Those numbers from Mako are huge, 25 tackles and 11 carries is ridiculous.

Englands best player today IMO

Great effort by England there - so very pleased.

I just hope that they can replicate this, to go to Dublin and come away with a bonus point win should give them immense confidence going forward.

Looking forward to watching the replay tomorrow with a clearer head!

Hard luck to the Irish, particularly to the gracious posters on this thread, I’ve no doubt that you’ll learn from this and come back stronger.

Another Diet Coke and wild Saturday night on V2 eh BamBam?

Slade scored two tries. That's what the Ref decided. Mako didn't. Likewise.

No problems for me with Healy's try. Never was.

I did have some issues with guys jackling while the tackled player kept hold on to the ball for too long and getting away with it, but that went both ways, and better a ref is consistent for both teams

A huge game played with huge intensity, and very promising for England.

Collapse2005 wrote:

El Radar wrote:Those numbers from Mako are huge, 25 tackles and 11 carries is ridiculous.

Englands best player today IMO

Well he did get MOTM... Tuilagi must have been close though.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

El Radar wrote:Those numbers from Mako are huge, 25 tackles and 11 carries is ridiculous.

Englands best player today IMO

Well he did get MOTM... Tuilagi must have been close though.

Did he? Not surprised at all. Only Ireland player that was decent in my view was Ringrose.

mikey_dragon wrote:Another Diet Coke and wild Saturday night on V2 eh BamBam?

Ah you assume. Surely a man (apparently) who is (pretending to be) in Canada knows better than that! I'm actually typing from Wednesday morning at my desk at work in Mongolia

Final point on the forward pass.

The thing to consider here is advantage - what advantage is gained from it travelling forward. Obviously the physics are such that many passes do, technically, travel forward, but the kinetic energy that results in the forward travel is essentially meaningless as, usually, it's one player passing to another at a short distance, in front of a defender. Many passes are, of course, flat or backwards. Or, the forward travel is marginal at best rather than at an angle where, to the naked eye, they are perceived as flat or backwards.

Where this becomes trickier is when a pass is made over a longer distance, and when it is used to beat a defender. Typically when it's a cut out pass like the pass from Slade to May. The ball has clearly travelled forwards. So what's the problem?

It's a bit like in football and the offside line. If the defender is flat footed with their back to their own goal, and the opponent is 10 yards away from them, with their left leg over the offside line but their body level - the attacker receives a through ball, runs in on goal, and scores. The left leg being offside hasn't really made the difference; the defender is flat footed, nowhere near the attacker, and the goal occurs because of that not the offside. Now, if that player is level with the defender, who's running alongside shoulder to shoulder, and their left leg allows the attacker to nick the ball forwards before they use their superior pace to run in and score with the defender on their heels and unable to challenge without conceding a foul, clearly being offside has had a direct impact on the goal. Both are offside, but in terms of impact, one situation is clearly decided by poor defending - the other by the player being offside.

For me, this is the same thing with the current forward pass laws, which are a mess. When the 'hands' rule was introduced we started seeing all sorts of passes, and consequently tries, allowed under the notion of flat hands - those particularly good at spinning the ball were throwing it a good 2-3 yards forwards over a short distance.

You then end up with situations like this: https://youtu.be/z0BMgtD9_Ko?t=349

Which is a joke. It makes a mockery of the sport when one of the founding rules is  that the ball should not be passed forward. It's a fundamental part of the game from which all tactics stem from. The way this law was being officiated - looking at the hands rather than the blatantly obvious forward motion of the ball - thankfully changed in time for the RWC, and referees started clamping down on passes such as the one I've linked to.

So it's disappointing to see Garces pull this bull in a game so close to the next RWC. I had hoped we'd seen the end of the hands rule arbitrarily and very inconsistently applied by referees.

The specific issue in terms of advantage are quite obvious here. Slade throws the ball forwards. He is running at pace, and as the ball travels 15 metres across, it also travels roughly 4-5 metres forwards. Here are some pictures:





The advantage to this ball travelling 4-5 metres forwards in 15 lateral metres is:

- Jonny May doesn't have to break his stride to catch the ball. Thus the move can continue at top pace.
- The final defender, Larmour, cannot get to May because
a. May is over halfway rather than 5 metres back, and
b. May has ran past him because he has not had to check his speed to field the ball, thus the scramble tackle is impossible before the kick
- After slowing down to throw the pass, Slade has been able to get back up to speed by the time May makes his kick without having to slow down to get back behind the play at any stage. This allows him to get to the ball first and score the try.

Partisan stuff aside, the pass being deemed fine because of 'hands' is a joke. I would hazard a guess that that isn't even the reason Garces refused to have another look. It's got nothing to do with hands - the touch judge is 20m away at an angle (looks static around halfway) and Slade has his back to Garces.

In terms of field position, Garces is in front of Slade when the pass is thrown, and still just in front of May when he catches it: when you're at that angle, it would look flat with a bit of forward movement...unless you're a professional referee who's experienced enough to second guess how much it has actually travelled forward. The more I review it, the more I think it's shocking refereeing: he's chosen to ask the question he has because he doesn't want the pressure of the crowd. That's not good enough.

As I said, it's good that England deserved to win and comprehensively put Ireland away after this. It's a shocker from Garces. Forward pass every single day of the week.

lostinwales wrote:Slade scored two tries. That's what the Ref decided. Mako didn't. Likewise.

No problems for me with Healy's try. Never was.

I did have some issues with guys jackling while the tackled player kept hold on to the ball for too long and getting away with it, but that went both ways, and better a ref is consistent for both teams

A huge game played with huge intensity, and very promising for England.

Two good tries too. Very nice hands and composure for the second one, good effort.

Lots of hoo haa over the Slade pass to May. Overall of course it is entirely irrelevant. Decisions go one way and then the other (Mako's try?), but no one can deny England were thoroughly deserved victors. The consolation try flattered Ireland.

That is not to say Ireland have become a bad side, but more they were just very second best on the day. Sexton's first match in 4 weeks another factor.

Ireland will improve as the tournament goes on. Great game!

Taylorman wrote:Nah as an AB supporter cant agree with that. If you cant be ruthless enough to finish a match on the up then you have major motivation issues.

See, Tman, you're making the mistake of universaling ABs mentality and/or situation again. I think you do it a lot - which is fine, but you have to understand NZ isn't the epicentre around which everything else revolves: the ABs are the ABs, and Scotland are Scotland, rather than a poor version of the ABs. You can't really apply the same criteria to other rugby teams, particularly not Scotland considering their form over the last 20 years (sorry Scotland, nothing personal).

Not sure if you've lived in the UK but you'd be amazed how psyche and attitude changes so vastly across such a geographically small place. That translates to all sorts of social cultural things, and in rugby, it's significant enough that there are definitely national traits that crop up time and time again - for Wales, it's being useless when favourites, or being in a winning position, or basically not tearing themselves apart when things finally go well. Gatland's helped with that for sure - it's why we've gone for another Kiwi next.

Which is interesting to discuss. But when it comes to sport, literally no team in the world has the position of privilege the ABs do in that they have dominated for the best part of a century. A psychology arises from that that is very durable: perhaps, also, the success also comes from the psyche. In fact I'm sure it's a reciprocal thing. But no other team has that in rugby, or indeed sprt. No other country, bar perhaps some Americans and Chinese, have that same sense of unshakeable sense of self belief and 'standards' for success that the ABs do because they are so used to winning everything (now you've stopped choking on garlic every 4 years...).

As Ewan McGregor said - "it's s***e being Scottish". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29-LRuuqFT0

Now, it's a professional sport, blah blah blah - yeah, too much can be made from something like psychology. But the thing you're missing is context: the context is a game between Italy and Scotland on the first weekend of the 6Ns. With the best will in the world, nothing the ABs do is relevant to this. Nothing. You can't talk about motivation in the same way. Scotland will be happy to have got out of the game with the 4 try bonus and, apart from Skinner, no injuries. Apart from McCaw and Carter, and perhaps to a lesser extent Nonu and Smith, I've never known NZ worry about personnel. It's always assumed the replacement will step up and do wel. But not in the NH. And not Scotland. There's a RWC at the end of the year to worry about, and a long season to go before that, including this tournament.

I'm not saying avoiding injury is a conscious, be all and end all reason to letting up slightly. Maybe because it's freezing and snowy plays a small part too - who knows?! As I said, many things can play apart in the individual and collective swing of momentum - and, having scored 4 tries and winning by a large margin, Scotland will obviously be disappointed to concede against Italy, but they'll not be overly worried, as I'm sure they weren't down on the field either.

Also, the thing to consider - the Italian rugby psyche. And the 'freedom' to actually play (that results in playing better) when you've effectively lost the game. All sorts of things come into play with momentum and psychology. It's a bit like the 2011 RWC final. NZ were awful, and France kept growing and growing and you could see, despite the obvious talent difference between the two teams, that the ABs were bottling it. And yet, collectively and individually, they couldn't seem to stem the tide effectively: they couldn't perform well enough to score the points that would have killed the game.

The less said about the way it was decided the better - but do you see the point I'm making? That depsite our best and conscious intentions about motivation and performance, sometimes momentum can go against you despite your best efforts - sometimes, it's the thing in the back of your mind that says (or doesn't say, maybe you don't hear it...) 'ahh, that's it, 4 tries, we can rest a bit now' or 'oh na, not the French again, cuz!'

Hope you get my drift...

hugehandoff wrote:Lots of hoo haa over the Slade pass to May. Overall of course it is entirely irrelevant. Decisions go one way and then the other (Mako's try?), but no one can deny England were thoroughly deserved victors. The consolation try flattered Ireland.

That is not to say Ireland have become a bad side, but more they were just very second best on the day. Sexton's first match in 4 weeks another factor.

Ireland will improve as the tournament goes on. Great game!

Agree. Ultimately, I don't really care too much about this decision - could see how Irish fans could say it swung the game, but not really.

The issue I'm more concerned about is Garces' (and Poite's) continual poor performance at test level. And, more specifically, whether we'll see some shocking refereeing at a RWC with a decision like this that will decide a game rather than - as tonight - the two teams' performances' determining who is the winner.

Worrying times for ireland. We were not just beaten we were hammered. A limited game plan allied to poor execution. The backplay was laughable. It’s one thing to lose a close game but we got our donkeys handed to us.

The Ref missed so many things, how many neck tackles did he miss?Ireland did so many yet when Sinkler did one it was a penalty.

I changed my mind on the Healy try.... Crazy really because you would have thought he could have reached out further but then maybe his muscles limit how much movement he has. But that ball was planted on a large hand not the ground.

Still - the ref's whistle went and the arm went up so try it was.

BamBam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Another Diet Coke and wild Saturday night on V2 eh BamBam?

Ah you assume. Surely a man (apparently) who is (pretending to be) in Canada knows better than that! I'm actually typing from Wednesday morning at my desk at work in Mongolia

At least I don’t pretend my wifi goes down. How are the women over there?

TightHEAD wrote:The Ref missed so many things, how many neck tackles did he miss?Ireland did so many yet when Sinkler did one it was a penalty.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

miaow wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Nah as an AB supporter cant agree with that. If you cant be ruthless enough to finish a match on the up then you have major motivation issues.

See, Tman, you're making the mistake of universaling ABs mentality and/or situation again. I think you do it a lot - which is fine, but you have to understand NZ isn't the epicentre around which everything else revolves: the ABs are the ABs, and Scotland are Scotland, rather than a poor version of the ABs.

Hope you get my drift...

Yeah I get your drift, which is to hand out a lesson in mediocrity, which has prevailed in NH rugby for over a hundered years. Its finally seeping through in sides like Ireland and England have been there or abouts several times. Scotland havent, so had a point to prove.

Its not about culture, its about winning in sport, whether youre Ireland, Wales, Oz, SA and yes Scotland. You might think I think rugby revolves around the ABs and NZ rugby but Im not alone. Wales, Ireland and Scotland also think that, because they enlisted coaches for that reason. No one gets into the players psyche in this sport more than the coach. Vern Cotter wasnt called in because he understood the Scottish psyche. He was brought in because he understood winning rugby.

Think youre selling them short, and if theyre thinking that way, they need to change. ABs or not.

miaow wrote:The more I review it, the more I think it's shocking refereeing: he's chosen to ask the question he has because he doesn't want the pressure of the crowd. That's not good enough.

As I said, it's good that England deserved to win and comprehensively put Ireland away after this. It's a shocker from Garces. Forward pass every single day of the week.

But that isn't the law. You may disagree with how the forward pass law works, and so might I or Jerome Garces for that matter, but the referee can only enforce what the law-makers tell him to enforce. And it's a perfectly legitimate try under the current laws of the game, not a 'shocker' of a decision at all.

It was good that Itoje going off didn't seen to disrupt the side. With Kruis having been subbed just moments earlier, it left us with just one specialist lock. It looked like Hughes went to second row in the scrums, rather than Wilson there. Might have expected our lineout to creak from that point but don't recall it being a big worry.

miaow wrote:The more I review it, the more I think it's shocking refereeing: he's chosen to ask the question he has because he doesn't want the pressure of the crowd. That's not good enough.

It's a shocker from Garces.

Agree. Garces is a spineless wonder. He is unfit to referee big games. He should be limited to that poxy French club competition they have.

He was odd. After a whike he only had eyes for green.

Rugby Fan wrote:It was good that Itoje going off didn't seen to disrupt the side. With Kruis having been subbed just moments earlier, it left us with just one specialist lock. It looked like Hughes went to second row in the scrums, rather than Wilson there. Might have expected our lineout to creak from that point but don't recall it being a big worry.

Devon Toner went off shortly afterwards and I suspect both packs were feeling the strain at that point. (I remember Stander going off and thinking how beat up he looked, Sinckler wasn't much better)

I believe Hughes has played lock (as has Wilson)

On Scotland - they emptied their bench giving débutantes / fringe players 25 mins and took off our captain.  there is no way they would have done that in a closer game

Just to look at the English pack, when was the last time we had so many first choice options available and managed to put such a balanced unit out? You look at some of these options and it's an intensely physical unit, perhaps only Underhill improving us.

It's been a long long time since I've seen an Ireland side be out muscled by an English pack, they usually dominate us in this area quite comfortably. Throw in Tuilagi as the physical option in the backs (Possibly Big Joe also) and it's quite a beastly lineup.

Pretty decent game in the end. Jones got his tactics spot on and the players played it to perfection. I wouldn't know who to pick for man of the match could talk myself I to picking anyone from 5. Think we've seen the best 2 teams around today and expect that there'll be titanic battles in the coming years.

Stander apparently played most of last night's game with a suspected fractured cheek bone/ eye socket. That's just mad

Jesus. I hope not deliberately.

I think (hope) he kept it to himself untill he came off.

Also would just like to say from an Irish fan, Ben Young's was outstanding last night, his kicking, his work in defence, his all round play was absolutely world class last night.
Pretty much 1-15 you didn't put a foot wrong.
As an Ireland fan it was painfull to watch, but as a rugby fan it was a masterclass at times.
Well done again

Just been looking at Slade's intercep try. How many time's do we see players go for an intercept and knock the ball on.

A great pair of hands or just luck?

Duty281 wrote:

miaow wrote:The more I review it, the more I think it's shocking refereeing: he's chosen to ask the question he has because he doesn't want the pressure of the crowd. That's not good enough.

As I said, it's good that England deserved to win and comprehensively put Ireland away after this. It's a shocker from Garces. Forward pass every single day of the week.

But that isn't the law. You may disagree with how the forward pass law works, and so might I or Jerome Garces for that matter, but the referee can only enforce what the law-makers tell him to enforce. And it's a perfectly legitimate try under the current laws of the game, not a 'shocker' of a decision at all.

Bizarrely Miaow even provided pictures that undermined his point. The first showed the hands playing the ball back. The second was irrelevant as where the pass ends is not a consideration.

As to not checking the pass with the TMO, if Garces thought it went back he was correct not to check it. Referees are only meant to check things if they are unsure. Whatever Garces' faults his great strength is that he allows the game to flow. He does not constantly give penalties for minor issues (e.g. at scrums) and he only uses the TMO when really necessary. Some referees seem to think that the TMO has to be consulted for every try.

Ah we got it right yesterday as you did 12 months ago.2 top class teams and sets of coaches. It's like chess next time we meet Schmidt and co will counter the approach and on we go!

Piss poor decision for the yellow card and not to use the Tmo. Ref said it was his shoulder, but he wrapped both arms

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah we got it right yesterday as you did 12 months ago.2 top class teams and sets of coaches. It's like chess next time we meet Schmidt and co will counter the approach and on we go!

I hope not - as if England meet a Schmidt-coached Ireland again in a competitive match it will be in the latter stages of the RWC. But maybe Eddie knows that, and that’s why he’s scheduled a warm-up against Ireland... two tips of the see-saw.

I don't think there were any howlers from the ref but there were a lot of decisions that could have gone either way.

Poorfour wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ah we got it right yesterday as you did 12 months ago.2 top class teams and sets of coaches. It's like chess next time we meet Schmidt and co will counter the approach and on we go!

I hope not - as if England meet a Schmidt-coached Ireland again in a competitive match it will be in the latter stages of the RWC. But maybe Eddie knows that, and that’s why he’s scheduled a warm-up against Ireland... two tips of the see-saw.

Not "competitive" I know, but we do meet again in a WC warm up fixture.

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think there were any howlers from the ref but there were a lot of decisions that could have gone either way.

Tmo missed this one. Should be cited.

https://twitter.com/Bfoodloo/status/1091761023642750978?s=19

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think there were any howlers from the ref but there were a lot of decisions that could have gone either way.

Tmo missed this one. Should be cited.

https://twitter.com/Bfoodloo/status/1091761023642750978?s=19

Well so should Manu no arms all shoulder clear out at a ruck on Stockdale.
We can all go looking for stuff. You won. You won convincingly well done

Looks like a yellow. And for the tuilagi one underneath that carpet point s out. Doubt you'll see a citing or a ban.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Looks like a yellow. And for the tuilagi one underneath that carpet point s out. Doubt you'll see a citing or a ban.

Isn't a swinging arm to the head/neck classed as a red now?

Penalty. Maybe a yellow. No way was it a red which is the test for citing.

carpet baboon wrote:

nathan wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:I don't think there were any howlers from the ref but there were a lot of decisions that could have gone either way.

Tmo missed this one. Should be cited.

https://twitter.com/Bfoodloo/status/1091761023642750978?s=19

Well so should Manu no arms all shoulder clear out at a ruck on Stockdale.
We can all go looking for stuff. You won. You won convincingly well done

Thanks, was a great game of rugby.