Pro14 is dead...

First topic message reminder :

Well we are nearing the end of the normal season and going into the knock out stages, and thanks to Premier Sports I can know say with confidence that my earlier prediction has materialised and the day has killed the Pro14.

They promised 1 game on FreeSports every week. Well unless you follow Zebre or the Kings you’ve not had that game. The Ospreys have not had one game shown on FreeSports. As for free to air coverage on S4C that has also been hit or miss, with them banning the red button English cometary, and again covering games with little interest.

So , since the conception of the league, this is the first season I’ve not been able to follow with interest. No (little) live coverage of games, no magazine show I’ve been able to watch to keep up with the league. I’ve managed to get to minimum Ospreys home games this season, due to family commitments. Basically, only rugby I’ve been able to follow has been the 6 Nations.

Thanks, Pro14, you played a stormer selling out. Enjoy the cash injection it brought, as it won’t last...

LordDowlais wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

miaow wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

miaow wrote:All in all, Welsh rugby has issues that papering over them doesn't really help - and the league feels like it's doing exactly that. Whatever happens to the structure of the rugby season - and it will be very different in 10 years' time, no doubt - Wales needs to make sure they've prioritised their existence as a major player, but it feels like that's not happening with the Pro14.

I agree with the bold bits, but when it comes to the bits in italics I would say that it is not the Leagues job to fix the underlying domestic issues of any of the constituent Unions. I would argue that decisions are not being made by the League to favour any union over another - just that some Unions have developed more/quicker in the last decade.

No, it's not. Which is why the criticisms are there from the Welsh as their teams (which have big issues) are playing in a cross-country league that is ambivalent to them and pro-Irish. The suspicion is (rightly or wrongly) were Wales to join up with England, not only would it make more sense logistically in terms of travel and support, it would also create better/deeper rivalries (I think the rivalry between Ireland and Wales since the Celtic League shows this to be true) with English clubs, but almost certainly more money as England is 'the' place where rugby stands the best chance of success. Anglo-centric world, as If said earlier. Whether that's feasible is a totally different point, but that's the frustration: throwing their lot in to a tournament that is poorer than what may have existed with England, and still treats one country more favourably than all the others.

The Welsh fans are bang on regarding this, they would have more money and probably more visiting fans if they played in the English League.  On the other hand so would the Scottish and Irish clubs. Unfortunately no-one in Welsh rugby has offered a single reason (other than dewy eyed nostalgia for the amateur age, when Bath came over the bridge and played Cardiff, Ponty, Neath and Scarlets in the space of a week and the craic was mighty) as to what the English clubs would get out of the arrangement.

I take it you cannot remember the old merit league ? There were constant fixtures between Welsh and English sides.

So what.
When will it get into Welsh rugbys head that the English have left them never to return.
They have no interest in making an arrangement with you
Until Welsh club rugby gets its head round that it is going nowhere

marty2086 wrote:How much more are they paying than they earn?

I do not know exactly, but Munster have been bailed out in the past for over spending, and Connacht would not be nowhere near as competitive as they are without union money bumping up their coffers.

It’s fair enough saying Leinster are the best side in the league, but the key is that they seem to have (much like Saracens) that big game pedigree that other sides don’t.

In terms of squad both Munster and Glasgow are still going through a bit of a rebuilding process but are definitely there or thereabouts. Munster fans that I’ve spoken to in recent weeks aren’t that fussed if they have to go away to Leinster in the semis as they reckon theyve got the team that can do them and I don’t think they’re far wrong.

I can't keep up, could you all type a little slower please ?

Collapse2005 wrote:

There is no reason why the bigger Welsh sides cant compete with Leinster. Leinster v Ospreys Pro14 final in 2012 was the greatest league club final in rugby history. Just shows you when they are arsed the Welsh sides can be good.

Hilarious. In the same way that Nottingham Forrest should be beating Manchester City week in week out because they were "arsed" in years gone by.

Utterly clueless.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:How much more are they paying than they earn?

I do not know exactly, but Munster have been bailed out in the past for over spending, and Connacht would not be nowhere near as competitive as they are without union money bumping up their coffers.

That was for the cost of their stadium no? Not sure how any pro 14 side would be able to afford a new stadium without going into the red. What is the issue with the IRFU bailing them out anyway? Are you just jealous the WRU isn't arsed looking after the Welsh sides or that they haven't figured out the most financially efficient way to run rugby in a smaller country yet?

LordDowlais wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote: Unfortunately no-one in Welsh rugby has offered a single reason (other than dewy eyed nostalgia for the amateur age, when Bath came over the bridge and played Cardiff, Ponty, Neath and Scarlets in the space of a week and the craic was mighty) as to what the English clubs would get out of the arrangement.

I take it you cannot remember the old merit league ? There were constant fixtures between Welsh and English sides.

Hence the comment on dewy eyed nostalgia.....great days no doubt but long gone.

To rephrase what would the modern fully professional English clubs get out of the arrangement? I'm all for teams from National One and below having tours and even competitive fixtures against Welsh clubs to keep that spirit going, but I don't see the likes of Bath or Saracens being interested.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

There is no reason why the bigger Welsh sides cant compete with Leinster. Leinster v Ospreys Pro14 final in 2012 was the greatest league club final in rugby history. Just shows you when they are arsed the Welsh sides can be good.

Hilarious. In the same way that Nottingham Forrest should be beating Manchester City week in week out because they were "arsed" in years gone by.

Utterly clueless.

No nothing like that really.

It was all of 2 years ago Scarlets scored 46 points in a final.
The dynamics of the economic set up of the league has not changed since then
Welsh whinging is truly pathetic to behold

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:How much more are they paying than they earn?

I do not know exactly, but Munster have been bailed out in the past for over spending, and Connacht would not be nowhere near as competitive as they are without union money bumping up their coffers.

Haven't the WRU bailed out the Dragons, and IRRC wasn't there a huge row about funding the new Parc Y Scarlets ?

If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:How much more are they paying than they earn?

I do not know exactly, but Munster have been bailed out in the past for over spending, and Connacht would not be nowhere near as competitive as they are without union money bumping up their coffers.

So you're guessing then and have no idea

Cardiff Blues
Operating Losses
2016
(1,280,029)
2017
(1,101,250)

Ospreys
Operating Losses
2016
(73,252)
2017
(405,407)

It's definitely the Irish spending more than they earn

geoff999rugby wrote:It was all of 2 years ago Scarlets scored 46 points in a final.
The dynamics of the economic set up of the league has not changed since then
Welsh whinging is truly pathetic to behold

That's true, that was a great campaign by the Scarlets to be fair. When they are arsed they can be formidable.

Collapse2005 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

There is no reason why the bigger Welsh sides cant compete with Leinster. Leinster v Ospreys Pro14 final in 2012 was the greatest league club final in rugby history. Just shows you when they are arsed the Welsh sides can be good.

Hilarious. In the same way that Nottingham Forrest should be beating Manchester City week in week out because they were "arsed" in years gone by.

Utterly clueless.

No nothing like that really.

Oh right. So if it's not because the Ospreys were uber competitive because they spent loads and loads of money on Holah, Marshall, Collins, Tia Tia, Bowe, Januarie etc etc......what was it?

Let me guess....it was because "they were arsed" ?

Pathetic.

The League is set up by Unions.

Correct.

Fact

So the product was created by Unions.

Be positive

Don't blame a dog for being a dog.

Be positive.

Encourage..... motivate.... beg Welsh Regions to find a home more suitable to their structures.

THAT is a Debate for Welsh rugby fans....amongst themselves.... in unison with Regional admins...in unison perhaps with WRU....in unison with Welsh based interest groups...in unison with Welsh journalists, players, coaches with strong views. It is a debate for the Welsh amongst themselves with scant or no reference made to Pro14. I have no personal desire or interest in seeking as an outsider to influence the route of Rugby within Wales. Not my concern, not my interest...not my business.
So only two decisions can come from an exclusively Welsh internal debate on their own future. Either they elect to leave Pro14 (going it alone or finding more suitable partners) - or they elect to stay with Pro14. It's exclusively their decision on how best to progress Welsh rugby into the future. I keep saying this to the naysayers. Be positive. Don't waste so much negative energy on talking down Pro14. Spend that energy amongst yourselves, encouraging each other to promote any new way that's needed.....amongst yourselves, talking to WRU of the Regions etc...... amongst yourselves...positively looking for that better future.
Now if the decision were to elect to stay within the Pro14, then they have to stay within the Pro14 by respecting that same autonomy of the other participants. Their rugby business is theirs. How they organise rugby in their Nations is a decision for them and them alone. If we Irish posters continued to implicitly and explicitly demand that all four Welsh regions sign themselves over to WRU ownership "to better balance out the admin structures throughout the Pro14" then I know the kinds of headlines that would be popping up on WOL! ..... "arrogant Irish trying to muscle in on Welsh self determination..... Plucky Irish hoors chance their arm on Welsh Rugby takeover"
And yet that always how these threads go. Pro14 doesn't function well enough for Privately owned Welsh Regions and the main stumbling block is IRFU ownership model in Ireland that somehow must be broken or modified to aid the functionality of Welsh Regions within the Pro14 league.
I don't give a damn about Pro14. It's not more important than the Irish bit of World Rugby. It's a tool, that's all. There is no loyalty to it. The IRFU model is the entity my allegiance is drawn to. And if there are criticisms of it, and there are, it is the criticism that it is not smooth enough, that there are always aspects they can tighten up on and get better at so that we have a true and powerful bottom up factory like process to keep FOUR provinces operating on a healthy level in personnel and results...and that feeding on to International. A joined up ruthlessly efficient linked-in organisation designed to create quality rugby in Ireland and to sustain it at a high level. The IRFU have oodles more to do not less.
Now why should I as an Irish person sacrifice that direct and yes crass selfish ruthlessness about where I want Irish rugby to go to something transient called Pro14?
Pro14 is a product not a Nation. It's a tool to be used. The Welsh can choose to keep using it or to ditch it. It's their decision, not a decision for the Irish or indeed for a competition organising outfit like Pro14.

BamBam wrote:If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

YES PLEASE

A THOUSAND TIMES

YES PLEASE.

Irish Londoner wrote:

miaow wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

miaow wrote:All in all, Welsh rugby has issues that papering over them doesn't really help - and the league feels like it's doing exactly that. Whatever happens to the structure of the rugby season - and it will be very different in 10 years' time, no doubt - Wales needs to make sure they've prioritised their existence as a major player, but it feels like that's not happening with the Pro14.

I agree with the bold bits, but when it comes to the bits in italics I would say that it is not the Leagues job to fix the underlying domestic issues of any of the constituent Unions. I would argue that decisions are not being made by the League to favour any union over another - just that some Unions have developed more/quicker in the last decade.

No, it's not. Which is why the criticisms are there from the Welsh as their teams (which have big issues) are playing in a cross-country league that is ambivalent to them and pro-Irish. The suspicion is (rightly or wrongly) were Wales to join up with England, not only would it make more sense logistically in terms of travel and support, it would also create better/deeper rivalries (I think the rivalry between Ireland and Wales since the Celtic League shows this to be true) with English clubs, but almost certainly more money as England is 'the' place where rugby stands the best chance of success. Anglo-centric world, as If said earlier. Whether that's feasible is a totally different point, but that's the frustration: throwing their lot in to a tournament that is poorer than what may have existed with England, and still treats one country more favourably than all the others.

The Welsh fans are bang on regarding this, they would have more money and probably more visiting fans if they played in the English League.  On the other hand so would the Scottish and Irish clubs. Unfortunately no-one in Welsh rugby has offered a single reason (other than dewy eyed nostalgia for the amateur age, when Bath came over the bridge and played Cardiff, Ponty, Neath and Scarlets in the space of a week and the craic was mighty) as to what the English clubs would get out of the arrangement.

This is very true in the current climate. The Premiership has boomed in recent years, in talent and finance, and some clubs like London Irish/Newcastle would fight against Welsh clubs joining might all their might. But all the more reason for the bitterness as there were definitely opportunities - and some positive noises from England, some of it a cynical bargaining ploy, of course - for it to happen in the last 20 years.

However, as part of a pan-British league competition, possibly even British Isles or European leage competition, it seems to be the way the game is going as the Premiership clubs have overspent massively just to compete/survive. That can't go on for another 10 years. Whatever route the club game takes, it seems pooling the NH's power is the inevitable response. CVC are buying large stakes in both leagues - I don't think they intend to leave them alone as they are.

In reality, the Irish will be involved in any merger as they're now the big draw as much as any English club. So don't worry: it's not a case of Wales joining England over Ireland. As you say, those days have gone.

miaow wrote: the Premiership clubs have overspent massively just to compete/survive. That can't go on for another 10 years.

Why not?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

BamBam wrote:If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

YES PLEASE

A THOUSAND TIMES

YES PLEASE.

Obviously the ring fencing lasts for 20 years minimum

BamBam wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

BamBam wrote:If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

YES PLEASE

A THOUSAND TIMES

YES PLEASE.

Obviously the ring fencing lasts for 20 years minimum

We just need to get in that English system. Any way we can.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

BamBam wrote:If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

YES PLEASE

A THOUSAND TIMES

YES PLEASE.

If the Welsh regions join the Championship would that bring Welsh rugby under the jurisdiction of the RFU as they run the league?

you're like the lad skulking around the dancefloor at 02.53 on a Saturday morning

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:How much more are they paying than they earn?

I do not know exactly, but Munster have been bailed out in the past for over spending, and Connacht would not be nowhere near as competitive as they are without union money bumping up their coffers.

So you're guessing then and have no idea

Cardiff Blues
Operating Losses
2016
(1,280,029)
2017
(1,101,250)

Ospreys
Operating Losses
2016
(73,252)
2017
(405,407)

It's definitely the Irish spending more than they earn

But the Welsh regions are spending privately owned monies. The owners will want it back. This is where you are blinkered. The unions are not getting into debt when they are subsidising the union owned teams. There is a massive difference, private owners cannot compete with the unions.

Irish Londoner wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

BamBam wrote:If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

YES PLEASE

A THOUSAND TIMES

YES PLEASE.

If the Welsh regions join the Championship would that bring Welsh rugby under the jurisdiction of the RFU as they run the league?

Yes mate. They would control all of welsh rugby and have all the grand slams we've ever had too. And Gavin Henson would be English.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

There is no reason why the bigger Welsh sides cant compete with Leinster. Leinster v Ospreys Pro14 final in 2012 was the greatest league club final in rugby history. Just shows you when they are arsed the Welsh sides can be good.

Hilarious. In the same way that Nottingham Forrest should be beating Manchester City week in week out because they were "arsed" in years gone by.

Utterly clueless.

No nothing like that really.

Oh right. So if it's not because the Ospreys were uber competitive because they spent loads and loads of money on Holah, Marshall, Collins, Tia Tia, Bowe, Januarie etc etc......what was it?

Let me guess....it was because "they were arsed" ?

Pathetic.

Ah would you stop, those guys apart from Bowe were chaff compared to the Welsh guys in the side. In the 2012 final there was only two non-Welsh guys in the whole match day squads. Dirkson was the only non-Welsh guy to start. Dan Biggar ran the show that day.

Wales are the second ranked side in the world with a good population of players if they were arsed they would be good a club level too. They problem is they cant get over their obsession with joining the English sides.

You call me clueless?

"The Premiership clubs have overspent massively just to compete/survive."

And is the moral somehow that the competition has to get even bigger still, with even more loadsamoney thrown at the game in an even bigger contest before such clubs break even or begin making profit?
With a bigger competition.... pan European.... comes a bunch of players, coaches, agents and admin people who feel they want a bigger slice of the bigger pie. So this everready notion that bigger and bigger 'merged' contests means more breathing room for more and more stressed clubs is in my opinion just fantasy. They're still going to struggle to employ the best players and coaches and they're still going to struggle to find the money for those massively increasing salaries and they're still going to struggle to find a resilient fan base if they keep lingering at the bottom of their league and keep losing games. The top will be the happy top...and regularly so...and the bottom will continue to be the bottom...and regularly so.

LordDowlais wrote:

But the Welsh regions are spending privately owned monies. The owners will want it back. This is where you are blinkered. The unions are not getting into debt when they are subsidising the union owned teams. There is a massive difference

I don't think the owners want it back LD. They haven't so far, in the last 20 years.

private owners cannot compete with the unions.

Saracens are doing alright.

Collapse2005 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

There is no reason why the bigger Welsh sides cant compete with Leinster. Leinster v Ospreys Pro14 final in 2012 was the greatest league club final in rugby history. Just shows you when they are arsed the Welsh sides can be good.

Hilarious. In the same way that Nottingham Forrest should be beating Manchester City week in week out because they were "arsed" in years gone by.

Utterly clueless.

No nothing like that really.

Oh right. So if it's not because the Ospreys were uber competitive because they spent loads and loads of money on Holah, Marshall, Collins, Tia Tia, Bowe, Januarie etc etc......what was it?

Let me guess....it was because "they were arsed" ?

Pathetic.

Ah would you stop, those guys apart from Bowe were chaff compared to the Welsh guys in the side. In the 2012 final there was only two non-Welsh guys in the whole match day squads. Dirkson was the only non-Welsh guy to start. Dan Biggar ran the show that day.

Wales are the second ranked side in the world with a good population of players if they were arsed they would be good a club level too. They problem is they cant get over their obsession with joining the English sides.

You call me clueless?

So just to 100% confirm then................. the difference between the Ospreys galacticos side that won the league 4 times, and the Ospreys side of today, is that now, the Ospreys 'can't be arsed'?

Good point Fly.

For all your points about discussions between the Union and the clubs, maybe I refer you to the last 20 years of Welsh rugby (and beyond) to see why that's an issue?

In all seriousness, Wales needs to sort its own house out. That's patently clear to everyone. The league IS playing a part in why the game is dying here, though. It won't be terminal - death is followed by rebirth, of course - but it's in a sticky patch at the moment.

As for being arsed: the Scarlets aren't that much weaker than when they won the league. Yes, Barclay and Beirne were fantastic, but Blade Thompson and Ed Kennedy weren't bad replcements, they've barely played. Could have done with Scott Williams this year but, by and large, there are a few additions that makes this squad even better than the won the league in some positions (like 10, for instance). The team's just been hammered by injuries.

Look at the Ospreys' team and it's more than capable of being up there on a par with Munster and maybe even Glasgow. North, Scott Williams, AWJ, Tipuric, Lydiate, Nicky Smith, Owen Watkin, Arhip, Beard, Brad Davies. Some quality players there bolstered by decent club men or players with potential, many of whom have international experience. Is it a case of not being arsed that's holding them back? Seems a bit Tory-ish to me..."get on your bike" sort of thing.

How on earth would the Welsh clubs survive in the championship? Massive fall in revenue. Little to no exposure. Not exactly huge crowds down at Castle Park.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

So just to 100% confirm then................. the difference between the Ospreys galacticos side that won the league 4 times, and the Ospreys side of today, is that now, the Ospreys 'can't be arsed'?

Correct.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:How much more are they paying than they earn?

I do not know exactly, but Munster have been bailed out in the past for over spending, and Connacht would not be nowhere near as competitive as they are without union money bumping up their coffers.

So you're guessing then and have no idea

Cardiff Blues
Operating Losses
2016
(1,280,029)
2017
(1,101,250)

Ospreys
Operating Losses
2016
(73,252)
2017
(405,407)

It's definitely the Irish spending more than they earn

But the Welsh regions are spending privately owned monies. The owners will want it back. This is where you are blinkered. The unions are not getting into debt when they are subsidising the union owned teams. There is a massive difference, private owners cannot compete with the unions.

No I'm not blinkered at all

Cardiff Blues chairman Peter Thomas is to step down after more than 20 years in the role at Cardiff Arms Park.

The 75-year-old, who played for Cardiff RFC in the 1960s, will remain on the board of directors and write off all of his debts, worth more than £11m.

What were you saying about owners wanting their money back?

You see I actually grasp that it's a complex issue, I have no issue with the likes of Peter Thomas funding Cardiff but when people actually try to suggest there is something wrong with another owner doing the same that's when I take issue. More so when they fail to understand that the likes of the Irish provinces are essentially mini Unions responsible for governing the game in their areas and receive funding from the IRFU to enable them to do so

Collapse2005 wrote:Ah would you stop, those guys apart from Bowe were chaff compared to the Welsh guys in the side.

Calling Marty Holah, Justin Marshall (WTF, name a better Irish 9, ever!?), Jerry Collins, and Filo Tia Tia 'chaff' is ridiculous. They'd all but left by 2012 but they played a major part in bringing through the young Welsh players, as well as improving the team overall. Unbelievable...

I’ve always enjoyed away trips to Wales and have had good laughs with travelling Welsh fans coming up here. None of them have ever brought up this level of dissatisfaction in all the time I’ve been watching this league. If what The Pro14-bashers on this thread say is even remotely true then Welsh rugby is indeed in terminal decline and it’s better for the league if they are dropped from the competition. I suspect it’s rather jealousy at what the more successful teams have managed to accomplish domestically with the same resources.

I’d feel sad losing the Welsh regions as a Glasgow fan as they are a constant source of league points.

They were all has beens. Filo Tiatia sounds more like a dessert that a rugby player.

Eejit wrote: the same resources.

Collapse2005 wrote:They were all has beens. Filo Tiatia sounds more like a dessert that a rugby player.

He'd turn you to custard, that's for sure.

Eejit wrote:I’ve always enjoyed away trips to Wales and have had good laughs with travelling Welsh fans coming up here. None of them have ever brought up this level of dissatisfaction in all the time I’ve been watching this league. If what The Pro14-bashers on this thread say is even remotely true then Welsh rugby is indeed in terminal decline and it’s better for the league if they are dropped from the competition. I suspect it’s rather jealousy at what the more successful teams have managed to accomplish domestically with the same resources.

I’d feel sad losing the Welsh regions as a Glasgow fan as they are a constant source of league points.

100%, the jealousy is a quite cringeworthy.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Eejit wrote: the same resources.

Ulster Income 2016/17 £9.8m
Ospreys Income 2016/17 £9.25m
Cardiff Blues Income 2016/17 £8.7m
Scarlets Income 2016/17 £10.55m

Guess the extra resources made a difference for Scarlets

Anyone know what the record attendance for one round of Pro14/12/10 games is. Are we likely to see us close to it this weekend.

For the record, it’s important to remember the reason Scarlets aren’t doing as well this season is the fact their coach is leaving at the end of this campaign coupled with losing some key players like Beirne and Barclay to rival clubs. Losing players like those two would hit any club. They were good value when they won the title and they choked a bit vs Leinster last year and probably deserved better than the score line suggested (Leinster were particularly good that day and my group just about drank the Aviva dry of Guinness). They’re still a top drawer side and I can’t wait to see them rebuild over the next few years.

The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

marty2086 wrote:You see I actually grasp that it's a complex issue, I have no issue with the likes of Peter Thomas funding Cardiff but when people actually try to suggest there is something wrong with another owner doing the same that's when I take issue. More so when they fail to understand that the likes of the Irish provinces are essentially mini Unions responsible for governing the game in their areas and receive funding from the IRFU to enable them to do so

If we could find one owner who could subsidise all four regions, then you would have a point.

Eejit wrote:The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

I'm glad you are so clued up by whats going on in a country you do not even reside in, never mind been two recently.

Eejit wrote:For the record, it’s important to remember the reason Scarlets aren’t doing as well this season is the fact their coach is leaving at the end of this campaign coupled with losing some key players like Beirne and Barclay to rival clubs. Losing players like those two would hit any club. They were good value when they won the title and they choked a bit vs Leinster last year and probably deserved better than the score line suggested (Leinster were particularly good that day and my group just about drank the Aviva dry of Guinness). They’re still a top drawer side and I can’t wait to see them rebuild over the next few years.

The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

Both of whom have gone back to their home countries, so not as if they have been poached.

Eejit wrote:For the record, it’s important to remember the reason Scarlets aren’t doing as well this season is the fact their coach is leaving at the end of this campaign coupled with losing some key players like Beirne and Barclay to rival clubs. Losing players like those two would hit any club. They were good value when they won the title and they choked a bit vs Leinster last year and probably deserved better than the score line suggested (Leinster were particularly good that day and my group just about drank the Aviva dry of Guinness). They’re still a top drawer side and I can’t wait to see them rebuild over the next few years.

The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

100%

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You see I actually grasp that it's a complex issue, I have no issue with the likes of Peter Thomas funding Cardiff but when people actually try to suggest there is something wrong with another owner doing the same that's when I take issue. More so when they fail to understand that the likes of the Irish provinces are essentially mini Unions responsible for governing the game in their areas and receive funding from the IRFU to enable them to do so

If we could find one owner who could subsidise all four regions, then you would have a point.

It's not allowed though is it. Only Unions are allowed to own more than one club.

Which is all you need to know about the level of corruption in rugby union.

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

I'm glad you are so clued up by whats going on in a country you do not even reside in, never mind been two recently.

If the original post stated that Pro14 was dead in Wales there might be some validity, but it did not. Pro14 appears to be thriving in the majority of countries that participate thus anyone simply stating "Pro14 is Dead" seems to be incorrect.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You see I actually grasp that it's a complex issue, I have no issue with the likes of Peter Thomas funding Cardiff but when people actually try to suggest there is something wrong with another owner doing the same that's when I take issue. More so when they fail to understand that the likes of the Irish provinces are essentially mini Unions responsible for governing the game in their areas and receive funding from the IRFU to enable them to do so

If we could find one owner who could subsidise all four regions, then you would have a point.

Except you haven't been able to show how they are subsidised

No idea why anyone would want to join a league with the cloven hooved English anyway. Money isn't everything.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You see I actually grasp that it's a complex issue, I have no issue with the likes of Peter Thomas funding Cardiff but when people actually try to suggest there is something wrong with another owner doing the same that's when I take issue. More so when they fail to understand that the likes of the Irish provinces are essentially mini Unions responsible for governing the game in their areas and receive funding from the IRFU to enable them to do so

If we could find one owner who could subsidise all four regions, then you would have a point.

It's not allowed though is it. Only Unions are allowed to own more than one club.

Which is all you need to know about the level of corruption in rugby union.

Except for the fact there are cases of people owning more than one club