The Ashes - official thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Seeing as this starts next week, I'll kick it off - the Aussies have selected their 17 man squad


Australia's Ashes squad: Tim Paine (c), Cameron Bancroft, Pat Cummins, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Mitchell Marsh, Michael Neser, James Pattinson, Peter Siddle, Steven Smith, Mitchell Starc, Matthew Wade, David Warner.

Main takeaway there is no specialist spinner selected behind Lyon, with Neser included suggests they don't anticipate many, if any, spinning wickets...

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Apparently Anderson is on the outfield doing some light jogging this morning...

[CaledonianCraig]

England just need to bat frugally throughout the day. As I know many are not keen on these I will post my roadmap for the day in a spoiler.

Roadmap:

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Apparently Anderson is on the outfield doing some light jogging this morning...

And on this Broad interview now with Ian Ward - "He's down, but the results of his scan haven't come back yet, so not sure. He was saying last night there still might be a chance he can bowl 2nd innings, depending on what the scan shows. If it comes back without a mark, he could strap it up and go, and if anyone knows Jimmy, if he can bowl, he will."

Sounds like we have an injury drama on our hands!

[CaledonianCraig]

Apparently Anderson is on the outfield doing some light jogging this morning...

And on this Broad interview now with Ian Ward - "He's down, but the results of his scan haven't come back yet, so not sure. He was saying last night there still might be a chance he can bowl 2nd innings, depending on what the scan shows. If it comes back without a mark, he could strap it up and go, and if anyone knows Jimmy, if he can bowl, he will."

Sounds like we have an injury drama on our hands!

Well the problem England have if Anderson (as looks likely) has to sit out the majority of (if not all) of the Ashes is that the replacement in waiting Joffra Archer has his own injury worries.

[Gooseberry]

Im more on Craigs side with this in terms of conditions, but 400 is an enormous ask. The issue I have is with people writing off Englands chances of 300, that is realistic.

They should have the best batting conditions of the game today. If they cant match Australias score or at least get around then they really are that bad.

It took some exceptional bowling from Broad and Woakes to limit Aus to what they did, Smith at his best.

[guildfordbat]

For me, you can spin yesterday either way and it's too soon to make a call on where it goes from here.

All this is from an England perspective, sorry Joey.

Having Australia 8 down for peanuts (to use Alfie's lovely phrase) and then seeing them get to 284 is bl**dy disappointing.

There again - Australia winning the toss and batting, having their number 4 score 140+ and our gun bowler hobbling off after sending just 4 overs but still getting them all out for under 285 is bl**dy good.

What next?

Like others here, I have my doubts about England's batting line up. However, it's about the best we can pick and I don't think it's too unreasonable to normally be looking for England to score 300+ first dig in a test on home soil. That's not to say they will but if they don't better Australia's score then it's the batters who should be under the microscope and not the bowlers.

Three possible bits of encouragement.

Firstly, I'm not getting the bunting out because England's openers survived 2 overs. However, it's definitely a lift for Burns and Roy that they are both there at the resumption and already off the mark. I'm also pleased that we don't have a nightwatchman about to be dismissed straightaway and give Australia an early boost (I didn't see Leach and so don't count it - more seriously I'm referring to what I consider is always most likely to happen).

Secondly, the likes of Roy, Stokes and Buttler are no slouches. If one or hopefully two of them can bat some time, we'll see some runs for sure and, although Australia have runs on the board, they don't have a massive total.

Thirdly, I consider Australiaa have goofed in leaving out Starc. As JDizzle (I think it was) posted a day or two before the start, he can go for a few. Yes, but he often takes a few. How England would have wished to see someone of his pace bowling at Siddle and Lyon last night.

Anyway, the tv and the coffee is on - here's to a good and interesting first session.

[Duty281]

Weigh that against posters on here who suggest England will collapse. Jeez they have a low opinion on their batsmen. People like Root (averaging close to 50 on Test cricket), Bairstow, Stokes, Roy and Buttler then they are presuming will be out cheaply.

Indeed, all based on what we've seen in recent times. The conditions aren't a concern. Olly mentioned England's great 2010/11 test side, with Strauss/Cook/Trott/Bell/Pietersen/Prior. If that side were batting today, it would be a case of 350 minimum in this innings and strong favourites overall.

But that side isn't batting today. Instead England have got Burns and Denly who aren't test class. Root is out of form and averaging around 30-35 for the last 7 tests he's played. Bairstow is a walking wicket, as is Ali. Roy is an unknown in test cricket. Stokes and Buttler haven't played red ball cricket for a while.

This England was outclassed by a dismal Irish bowling attack just last week, and today they're going up against the best bowler in the world (Cummins) and very able support in the form of Pattinson and Siddle and Lyon. 300 is the upper limit on what I see England making, but they're more likely to be bowled out for closer to 200 than 300.

[Gooseberry]

Talk on TMS about how last ashes Lyon averaged 90 against right handers and 19 against left handers last Ashes in England, following an interview where he said he prefers bowling to right handers

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

If you are of the pessimistic view - England are 4/1 to score under 225 runs in the first innings on Skybet

[guildfordbat]

England just need to bat frugally throughout the day. As I know many are not keen on these I will post my roadmap for the day in a spoiler.

I've been watching Roy for over 10 years since he was a teenager in Surrey seconds. I've never seen him do frugal.

[Duty281]

If you are of the pessimistic view - England are 4/1 to score under 225 runs in the first innings on Skybet

That's pretty good, actually. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if England got rolled for a two-digit score again!

Saw Smith was about 9/2 to make a century when he was on about 15* yesterday, but didn't take it. You miss every chance you don't punt on!

[Gooseberry]

This is the difference with Roy vs pace, the edges fly fast at least. I honestly think he will be more comfortable against this than he was Irelands mediums.

(Positive thinking!)

[Gooseberry]

Runs are coming OK so far but not without risk. Crowd noises are very nervy

[guildfordbat]

This is the difference with Roy vs pace, the edges fly fast at least. I honestly think he will be more comfortable against this than he was Irelands mediums.

(Positive thinking!)

I didn't see the Ireland game but Roy won out second dig, didn't he?

Assuming Roy is still there, I would get Lyon to have a bowl at him after 30 or 40 minutes this morning. He can be vulnerable to spin early on.

[alfie]

England just need to bat frugally throughout the day. As I know many are not keen on these I will post my roadmap for the day in a spoiler.

I've been watching Roy for over 10 years since he was a teenager in Surrey seconds. I've never seen him do frugal.

Yes I don't think they've picked him to channel Chris Tavare anyway. I do hope England use their heads ; mix attack with sensible defence when it's warranted , etc. , but it still makes sense for the stroke players to play naturally . If they can bat the day I fancy they will have a lead - provided no interruptions - as players like Roy will score at a decent rate.

I do tend to agree with you , guildford , that England might be glad not to see Starc taking the new ball. I understand why they've picked the attack they have ; but not sure it is the best call for game one. We will see.

Of course they can say they've picked Siddle for his batting
.

[CaledonianCraig]

England just need to bat frugally throughout the day. As I know many are not keen on these I will post my roadmap for the day in a spoiler.

I've been watching Roy for over 10 years since he was a teenager in Surrey seconds. I've never seen him do frugal.

I meant England batting in general. No gifts make them get you out.

[Gooseberry]

This is the difference with Roy vs pace, the edges fly fast at least. I honestly think he will be more comfortable against this than he was Irelands mediums.

(Positive thinking!)

I didn't see the Ireland game but Roy won out second dig, didn't he?

Assuming Roy is still there, I would get Lyon to have a bowl at him after 30 or 40 minutes this morning. He can be vulnerable to spin early on.

TMS are talking about Lyon coming on early if they dont get the wicket quickly.

So far hes been very restrained after that edged four, how long he can maintain that discipline though is the question. Burns is much more natural in this regard.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

First of many early dismissals for Roy, one feels. Gone for 10

[Duty281]

Great start from Pattinson, hitting an immaculate line and length from the beginning. He deserves that wicket.

Root out in the middle early against the new ball.

[Gooseberry]

Urgh Just a poor defensive shot from Roy. Next time just try and whack them mate

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First of many early dismissals for Roy, one feels. Gone for 10

It's almost like picking a player you see as a middle order player, to open, isn't a good idea

[compelling and rich]

looks worrying for roy, one through the slips, couple didn't carry, then the wicket. that's plenty of chances and a pitch that isn't exactly express speed

[alfie]

Not a huge surprise to see Roy caught at slip. I do hope he can make a go of opening ; but I fear he's going to need a fair ration of luck to do so. That innings against Ireland was excellent in its latter stages ; but really might have been nipped off several times before he got properly started. Definitely edgy this morning. Actually wonder if he wasn't trying too hard to hold himself back...might have done better to go after them from the start ?
Going to be a debate for a while I think.

[Soul Requiem]

First of many early dismissals for Roy, one feels. Gone for 10

It's almost like picking a player you see as a middle order player, to open, isn't a good idea

As well as picking Denly as an opener to then play him in the middle order, muddled thinking.

It doesn't help that we don't have any solid all round openers any more, a load of grinders and some dashers.

[Gooseberry]

First of many early dismissals for Roy, one feels. Gone for 10

It's almost like picking a player you see as a middle order player, to open, isn't a good idea

(Produces endless list of failed "openers")

It does seem really daft to have a player whos opened a fair bit and regularly plays 3 in CC at 4 with Roy opening and Root at 3. But most of us fancied it was worth giving Roy a chance in this role, partly based on the repeated failure of picking the best performing openers in County cricket to play there. 

Sadly someone has to. Maybe they should just sit out the first 20 overs and hope the assuies cant hit the stumps.

[Duty281]

Lyon finding some bite off the pitch...could be significant with England batting last.

[alfie]

A bit early to totally write off Roy as opener , I think. No secret I'm a bit doubtful ; but in truth I think they have not picked him expecting a solid regular thirty or so ...nor an average of forty.
What they've gambled on - and it is a gamble - is that he will get three or four starts and at some point will play an innings that will win them a Test Match. They're prepared to cop a few cheap dismissals : after all the previous occupant wasn't exactly a consistent scorer...

I'm not sure it's the best % play - especially as it means exposing Root early on . But probably a sign of the lack of convincing alternatives.

[VTR]

Root doesn't look in much form. Strange as he was decent at the World Cup, which given the role he plays in ODIs would usually translate into Test match batting. Will be interesting to see what Stokes is like, again was batting more like Tests a lot of the time at the World Cup. Think we'll need a lot of runs from Stokes here

[Duty281]

Lyon finding some bite off the pitch...could be significant with England batting last.

Uneven bounce too.

Burns looked out in real time but not reviewed...yep, another incorrect decision. He's struggling against Lyon. Root looks so out of form.

[Gooseberry]

Could have been a worse start. Burns is looking like this could be the day he finally makes a mark on test cricket, Im not going to get carried away but a 50 as part of a good partnership would relieve a lot of pressure on him.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Lyon finding some bite off the pitch...could be significant with England batting last.

Already keeping a bit low too. Not promising signs! Burns gets away with a non LBW decision...I thought it looked pretty good, was surprised the Aussies didn't review. Looked umpires call at worst

[alfie]

Yeah I thought it looked out on first view. Seems both umpires and captains are a bit out of synch with hawk eye this match

Seriously I do suspect drs is actually causing a lowering of umpiring standards at the top level. Loss of confidence from being overruled ; the feeling that you can leave it to the robot ? Or maybe it's just a poor batch of umpires at present...

Surprised to see Lyon off already ? He was really troubling Burns.

[Gooseberry]

Yeah I thought it looked out on first view. Seems both umpires and captains are a bit out of synch with hawk eye this match

Seriously I do suspect drs is actually causing a lowering of umpiring standards at the top level. Loss of confidence from being overruled ; the feeling that you can leave it to the robot ? Or maybe it's just a poor batch of umpires at present...

Surprised to see Lyon off already ?  He was really troubling Burns.

Im not sure thats true Alfie. These guys are not having a great game at all but they have both incorrectly given out and incorrectly given not out. Its not so much a case of leaving it to the tech (although their was one dismissal yesterday they checked to the nth degree needlesly) as just being poor in their case. 

But that is nothing new, and whats happening here is one of the things that many resisted DRS for, umpiring is being shown up as pretty poor at times and near impossible to do in some cases.

If anything though DRS has increased the chances of lbws being given, its certainly changed the perception that certain leg side ones cant ever be out and that anyone well forward cant be given.

Its a shame we never get to see the English umpires here at test level. For once Im on Vaughns side on this argument, lets do away with neutrals for the ashes. Theres so many English and Aussie umpires who could do a better job,

[compelling and rich]

quite happy with this start. top order have done something they haven't done for quite a while. seen off the danger of the new ball (or nearly at least, its still doing abit). hopefully should get easier from here

[Dolphin Ziggler]

A touch lucky there, Joe

[Duty281]

Massive slice of luck for Joe Root. Thought he was bowled or caught or LBW or something...in the end it was none of the above. It's a pretty awful innings so far, whichever way you cut it.

[compelling and rich]

wow

[alfie]

Not having seen the last session yesterday I've been reading back the commentary. I see England went the "give the batsman a free single , pack the boundary and just try to get the rabbit out " route. Obviously it didn't work

In truth such a scheme does work with some batsmen. But not with a player like Smith. He doesn't panic. They really should have learned that by now.

It is horrible for a bowler . To run up knowing your team is not expecting you to get someone out ...and indeed not giving you the field to even have a chance...for all but one or two balls an over . Can't help confidence , rhythm ...rarely leads to success against the tailender so not a good tactic .
Last time a captain suggested I should bowl to such a plan I pulled the vast experience card and persuaded him to put the fielders back where I wanted them. Perhaps not as easy to do to a Test captain

Some sympathy for Root : losing a key bowler after just four overs left him with a problem. But I do think he might have employed Denly for more than two inexpensive overs.

Root lucky ! Given out ...saved by review ...but only because the ball hit his stump and ailed to dislodge the bails !

Hard work batting at the moment.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Joel Wilson is totally clueless. Literally endless embarrassing decisions

[Pr4wn]

Anyone else finding the chanting by the Barmy Army completely boorish? Booing Smith when he attained a century during one of the best innings I've seen in a long time? Completely classless.

Such a shame.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Gotta feel for Pattinson there - absolute jaffa of a delivery, clips top of off!

[Duty281]

Mark Wood out for the rest of the summer, by the way.

England scoring at such a pedestrian pace that they won't be eclipsing Australia's score even if they bat the whole day. But at least they're not collapsing...for now.

[Duty281]

Anyone else finding the chanting by the Barmy Army completely boorish? Booing Smith when he attained a century during one of the best innings I've seen in a long time? Completely classless.

Such a shame.

Smith's a bully and a cheat who should have a lifetime ban from the sport, so no sympathy from me in that regard.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Lifetime ban for ball tampering?LOL. There's a list of hall of famers whom have been caught ball tampering.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Mark Wood out for the rest of the summer, by the way.

That's a shame, if not wholly surprising. Have to say with the emergence of Stone, and coming of Archer along with all the injuries...you wonder if Wood's test career is teetering on the brink, and might be worth just focusing on ODI/T20's

[guildfordbat]

Burns working hard and doing what's been required of him so far. However, so important for England and him that he properly builds on it.

[lostinwales]

Lifetime ban for ball tampering?LOL. There's a list of hall of famers whom have been caught ball tampering.

1st pass I read that as hall of farmers....

[alfie]

It is a pity for Wood. Even with his longer run up , he puts a lot of strain on his body with that action.
Certainly achieves high pace ; but the cost is way too much time in sick bay...

Can't see him adjusting to bowl slightly slower as some have ; so you may be right about concentrating on white ball stuff , Olly.

Though I would like to see him having a go in Perth , say , on the next trip. Wood , Archer and Stone might make a lively attack and give the locals a taste of their own medicine...

[Gooseberry]

England will be glad they have 3 spin options in the side by the looks of it.

[CaledonianCraig]

England's morning reaching lunch with a score of 71 for 1. Burns and Root have put on a partnership of 49. The longer the day goes on the more having a four man bowling attack will tell on them as they will tire.

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