Glasgow and Edinburgh banter thread no. 23 - New season, new thread

[BigGee]

First topic message reminder :

Well a new season is probably time to start off a new thread.

2 weeks to the start of the season and both sides with one more pre season game to go. A lot of unknowns this season again, due to the number of players away with Scotland and other countries for the WC.

For Glasgow, can they continue their general excellence that took them on a fantastic end of season run to the Pro 14 Final, where they just fell short. It might be their last campaign under Dave Rennie, so can they go one better?

Edinburgh also have questions to ask, the main one being whether they can ever pass the ball past the FH and how soon before their wingers are likely to go blue from hypothermia? On a more positive note though, they may finally be playing in Mini Murrayfield by autumn 2020. So only one more year to bear playing in the library!

Good luck to both teams for the coming season, though Edinburgh are more likely to need it than Glasgow!

[RDW]

I'll pass on everyone's regards anyway.

On another note, is anyone else from here heading down to Sandy Park next weekend?

Please do. He's welcome back any time (just not to talk about independence )

[BigGee]

I think it would be a very different debate next time (and I do agree that there will be a next time and probably reasonably soon). The way the Euro debate has played out and the way that politicians like Johnson have lied with impunity means that any chance of a reasonable debate are long gone.

I was a staunch remainer last time and how close it got in the end filled me with dread and yet just three years later I am really wavering now and if we do come out of Europe, that would likely be enough to push me into thinking that Scotland would be better off as an independent country.

It is amazing that so much has changed so quickly!

[BigGee]

I'll pass on everyone's regards anyway.

On another note, is anyone else from here heading down to Sandy Park next weekend?

I was originally planning on going but was a bit slow off the mark in trying to get some tickets. It was a complete sell out by the time I looked. I was a bit surprised about that as it did not sell out completely last time.

So it is off to Manchester for us in January to see the Sale game instead, I don't imagine that one will sell out!

[Tattie Scones RRN]

That's weird BigGee.....Chiefs website are still selling tickets for the East Stand?

[BigGee]

Maybe had some returns?

It was definitely a sell out when i looked.

Anyway, i am now booked up to go and see the MiL in Italy, so will be watching on my Virgin TV Go instead!

[Tattie Scones RRN]

[RDW]

I think it would be a very different debate next time (and I do agree that there will be a next time and probably reasonably soon). The way the Euro debate has played out and the way that politicians like Johnson have lied with impunity means that any chance of a reasonable debate are long gone.

I was a staunch remainer last time and how close it got in the end filled me with dread and yet just three years later I am really wavering now and if we do come out of Europe, that would likely be enough to push me into thinking that Scotland would be better off as an independent country.

It is amazing that so much has changed so quickly!

Ah you see this is where it gets messy! The SNP would have you believe if we were independent we would waltz back into the EU on the same terms we currently are, and not have to join the back of the queue in 5 years and won't have to take on the Euro etc. Problem is there's a real lack of important people in the EU who agree with that statement, particularly when they're nervous about separatist movements in their own country - i.e. they don't want to make this kind of thing easy. I get the SNP say it makes clear sense for the EU to let us back in open armed, but that certainly doesn't mean it would happen.

Taking all that out of it though, I just don't see how further divisions is a good thing in a time of great division in the world. If you thought the Brexit divorce settlement and Irish border issue was messy what do you think it would be like trying to separate Scotland with England?? Referendums are hugely divisive and economically damaging.

Independence is for life, a Tory government under Johnson is just for Christmas (hopefully) and things can easily change in politics.

The final thing is that I think the EU has become a massive diversion tactic from the last referendum - EU membership was such a minor issue in the debate at the time. I don't think many Scottish people even really knew what the EU did for us or whether it was a big deal or not if we were in it. Suddenly everyone's raging about it and saying we must have independence because of it, forgetting all else. There were a whole heap of unresolved questions at the that didn't get definitive answers and they still haven't been resolved since.

A Yes vote could mean being out of the UK and being out of Europe, in a country with dubious ability to self sustain on it's own economically - and where would that leave us? I suspect you're right that there will be another referendum sadly, and I think it will be very close but No ultimately edging it. What would be a disaster IMO is if Yes won by a very small minority, effectively forcing half the country against their will to lose their national identity. Can you imagine how divided a country that would leave us? IMO for the people of Scotland it would dwarf what has happened with Brexit, particularly when things started to become very messy with Westminster in the divorce.

p.s. apologies for doing what I said I wouldn't do and getting into politics.

[tigertattie]

I think it would be a very different debate next time (and I do agree that there will be a next time and probably reasonably soon). The way the Euro debate has played out and the way that politicians like Johnson have lied with impunity means that any chance of a reasonable debate are long gone.

I was a staunch remainer last time and how close it got in the end filled me with dread and yet just three years later I am really wavering now and if we do come out of Europe, that would likely be enough to push me into thinking that Scotland would be better off as an independent country.

It is amazing that so much has changed so quickly!

It's all a total clusterfeck Gee.

The issue we have is that Parliment have made such an utter mess of things we're now stuck in catch 22.

option A: Brexit happens and the SNP say as "the will of the scottish people" hasnt been listend to, it's cause for IndyRef2.
option B: There's a 2nd brexit ref which reverses the decision and then the SNP say "Well if you can have BrexitRef2 then we need IndyRef2"

Unfortuantely because Westminster have been so utterly inept it is quite possible if not even quite likely that Scotland will vote to leave the UK. The utter irony of the whole thing is that Brexit has shown jsut how much of a mess it is to seperate the UK for the European Union after 40 years. Trying to seperate Scotland from the UK after 300 years will be 100 times worse (and there's not even a sea to seperate us)

Heads won over hearts last time round but if there is a next time I can't see the UK staying as it is. I still think we are genuinely "better together" but you cant really justify this stance with the UK wanting out of Europe. The annoying thing is I'm pretty sure the SNP do not give a flying monkeys about the EU but they are using this to further thier own needs.

I get someone who wants out of the EU and wants out of the UK. I get someone who wants to stay in the EU and stay in the UK. I really dont get anyone who wants out the UK but stay in the EU. To me that just reeks of anti Englishness. Either you want to control your own desitiny or you dont. Not wanting Westminster to govern you but you are happy with Brussells doing so is jsut utterly bonkers!

But aye, I miss ASBO. At least he put up an arguement with the pros of independance rather than just swearing at you and saying you cant be scottish if you want to be in the UK.

[tigertattie]

So aye, what Flounder said x 2

[BigGee]

I am pretty sure I would take option 2 Tattie, stay and stay, but it looks like that choice might be taken away from me.

Perhaps as I have a wife from Europe, leaving the EU is just a red line for me that I can never reconcile and the fact that it has been brought about by a liar like Johnson who did it purely for political expediency and dose not even really believe it is a good idea himself makes me think that politics down here in England is completely broken.

It is probably academic for me in some respects, as I won't get a vote on independence, nor am I likely to be back living in Scotland, but I would very much like to remain a citizen of Europe. I have actually applied for an Italian passport, but the speed Italian bureaucracy works, I may end up being able to get a Scottish one first!

[Tramptastic]

It comes down to whether you believe westminster politics is broken/breaking down:

First Past the Post;
Gerrymandering;
Politics of fear;
Protection from the law for figures from "institutions";
selling off of public services to the private sector for personal gain;
bailing out of the financial sector and imposing austerity on the working class; and,
Institutionalized bigotry and racism.

All of the above are very much a part of or are becoming more prevalent, in Westminster politics. Now in normal times I'd be of the opinion that we can just boot out the scum who are making the above worse/unable to change it. But more and more it looks like changing our political elite is next to impossible. Would it even be possible for a socialist/left leaning politician to get in to government in Westminster? With the way the media is set up and with a FPTP system of voting that encourages 2 party politics I think it's impossible and I've become disenchanted with British politics to say the least.

Thats not to say that Scotland doesn't have it's own historical and current political problems and institutional abuses (Dumfries and Galloway managed to produce Alastair Jack for example *vomits on the nearest climate change denier*)

I know how I voted last time, I also know that the EU is a fairly hardcore neoliberal institution that tends to crack down on the ole socialism, but if Scotland were a part of the EU and not the UK i'd be safe in the knowledge that the NHS wasn't being sold out in a trade deal with the orange tango sp*nk trumpet, investment in isolated communities would continue as part of the EU's policies (no evidence of this continuing from an independant UK), food, health and human rights would continue to be maintained of a high standard AND there would be people willing to pick the bl00dy fruit instead of it rotting in the fields!

If there was a labour government and brexit was put to bed I would reconsider how to vote in a possible Indyref2. But at the moment, if Brexit happens and the right wingers stay in power I know my vote would go. I genuinely feel European, something a lot of UK citizens dont. I work in Europe, I play rugby in Europe, my neighbours, colleagues and team mates are European - how am I meant to react when the country I'm a member of votes to remain part of and engaged with Europe when the other Union I'm a part of goes "nuh you're getting booted, we're giving a special deal to another part of our Union due "issues" BUT NOT YOU GUYS".

Eurgh.

Quick, change the topic back to rugby...

Alan Solomons is doing alright at Worcester? Maybe Edinburgh were just full of terrible players? Discuss.

[RDW]

Worth saying Tramptastic that we'll still be European, just not in the EU! But I know what you're saying.

I would be majorly worried if the next indy referendum became a one issue poll. That's how the SNP would want it as it's an easy drum to beat and hides all the major issues that are still unresolved from the last one (see my earlier post). It would essentially be asking the question "do you want to be back in the EU at all costs", even if this means a highly uncertain future and years of bitter divorce worse than Brexit could ever throw at us. This is of course the polar opposite of the current Tory Brexit stance - i.e. leave the EU no matter what the cost. The UK is still a big player in Europe and the rest of the world. Scotland on its own, particularly with no defence force to speak of (as is the SNPs want) would be a tiny player - move over Slovakia, you've got competition! Again some people might not care about this, which is fair enough, but I do.

And as I said earlier it's not even likely that the EU will just let us back in without going the long route, or let us have a currency other than the Euro. This latter issue I think will be the one that dominates the indy 2.0 debate the SNP will claim we will get back in straight away, everyone else will claim cowpat. I have a practical mind and when I try and work out the practicalities of splitting from the UK my mind boggles - there's so many issues with it.

It's interesting to hear from you and Biggee who see your ties very much with Europe. Conversely I live in London and have an English born dad (keep it quiet), and have little ties with Europe, so very much see myself as part of the UK first. I can't relate to the idea of wanting to be closer to Europe than the county that we literally share our land and people with and have had hundreds of years of history together (a lot of it not very friendly history granted!).

As for Solomons and Edinburgh, there is no doubt we were full of terrible players. Problem is Solomons was the one that signed them all!


p.s. I realise I'm sounding a bit Farage here about the EU. I am very much a remainer, I just see independence as a far worse thing to happen!

[Tramptastic]

Haha, aye I get that we won't stop being European but the European Union is a democratic representation of European states (or those who want to be a part of it) and I feel represented by it. Dinni get me wrong, one grandpa was a colonial born in Hong Kong so I should feel very much British but there's a fairly horrific side of Britain I don't feel a part of.

One of the big pushes for the chaps running the Brexit campaign was new EU policy that would have clamped down heavily on offshore tax avoidance, a policy which explicitly targeted Britain as the UK government actively encourages the use of the British Virgin Islands etc.

Now, I can't help but feel more inclined to sympathise with a parliamentary body that actively targets offshore tax avoidance/evasion rather than the one that encourages it. So do I feel more European from a political stand point? Aye. Would I feel happy about remaining part of an instituion that rewards millionaires/billionaires that remove money from the economy because they see themselves as a modern day Smaug the Golden? No!

In the UK I keep voting for a progressive government and trying to convince as many people as I can to do so. The political echo chamber I currently live in suggests everybody i know is doing the same, but every vote I take part in goes the way of the tories - such is democracy but its also terribly demoralizing

[bsando]

Assume this has been read by most

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50453217

To sum up, the SRU will get £35 million as CVC looks to "maximise commercial opportunities for the league". I am assuming that will mean a North American team before too long.

Thoughts on what to do with the money?

If the SRU wanted to be really progressive they could whack a heap of it into the women's game. I'd love to see more of it spent in areas of Scotland without a big rugby presence though. Like Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness and Highlands.

[Tramptastic]

Also, for the record, Im sorry to hear there were actually fallings out over political differences from the last indyref. It wasn't something I experienced in the real world, despite my friends and family being split on the issue.

Most discussions I had were reasonably good debates, there seemed to be lots of information released from both sides of the debate, with very few references to Braveheart, Bannockburn, 1690 or sectarianism which was something I thoroughly expected to rear its ugly head!

[RDW]

I'm with you in feeling like I have no political home, which is a common problem for people just now. I'd never vote for the Tories and BJ (snigger), but I'd also never vote for Corbyn.

That pretty much leaves me with the Lib Dems who I usually go for, but that's generally been a bit of a wasted vote. Sounds like they might make more ground this time but don't see it being enough to make much of a difference. Personally I think this general election will lead to a massively hung parliament and we'll be right back to square one - I'm not sure how the Tories are so confident they'll win.

Before Brexit things were looking on the up - the Scottish Tories under Ruth were showing signs of separation (in terms of policy) from their Westminster overlords and were making great gains in Scotland. Indeed if Brexit hadn't happened I think they would have gone on to seriously challenge the SNP in Scotland as they were becoming the No voters choice. Now I suspect they'll be lucky to get a handful of seats on Scotland.

[RDW]

Also, for the record, Im sorry to hear there were actually fallings out over political differences from the last indyref. It wasn't something I experienced in the real world, despite my friends and family being split on the issue.

Most discussions I had were reasonably good debates, there seemed to be lots of information released from both sides of the debate, with very few references to Braveheart, Bannockburn, 1690 or sectarianism which was something I thoroughly expected to rear its ugly head!

There was a lot of that, and not just on here. RuggerRadge used to post a lot on here and he said he stopped speaking to his sister for a long time because of it - they had a major falling out being on opposite sides!  There was huge division in the country at the time, and it still lingers on.

Mrs RDW was called a traitor by a Yes representing door to door canvasser - it was ugly times.

[Tramptastic]

Also, for the record, Im sorry to hear there were actually fallings out over political differences from the last indyref. It wasn't something I experienced in the real world, despite my friends and family being split on the issue.

Most discussions I had were reasonably good debates, there seemed to be lots of information released from both sides of the debate, with very few references to Braveheart, Bannockburn, 1690 or sectarianism which was something I thoroughly expected to rear its ugly head!

There was a lot of that, and not just on here. RuggerRadge used to post a lot on here and he said he stopped speaking to his sister for a long time because of it - they had a major falling out being on opposite sides!  There was huge division in the country at the time, and it still lingers on.

Mrs RDW was called a traitor by a Yes representing door to door canvasser - it was ugly times.

That's horrific, there's zero excuse for that kind of noise. Honestly I mind reading about families and friends being divided but it just never seemed to come to that kind of falling out with people I knew

Sorry to hear yourselves had that experience!

Lib dems is also a bit risky as they've become Tory-lite with all the defectors joining up with them. I also voted for the lib dems during clegg mania and I've never felt more betrayed in politics so I don't think i could ever vote lib dems again.

Corbyn is a divisive but historically he's been on the right side of issues - opposing apartheid (when a lot of the british government supported it), opposing the iraq war, opposing the bombing in Libya. I'm a big fan of his, historically, being a pacifist. However, people should be focusing on his policies, not his personality (he's pretty devoid of one), and his policies are fairly sensible - renationalisation, ending austerity, clamping down on tax avoidance - whats not to like?

In Scotland, as you say with Davidson leaving, I think it'll be close to a clean sweep for the SNP. Andrew Murray in Edinburgh South will probably be last labour standing again (which is good, he's a good politician thats done a lot of good work for Edinburgh South)

[BigGee]

The best thing you can do in the current election is to vote for the least worst option and at least don't feel you have wasted your vote. In some intsnces this might mean holding your nose!

My MP is Iain Duncan Smith, who it is very easy to dislike and would be z pkeasure tk see him voted out of Parliament. Do labour get my vote on the basis that that will be the only chance of ghat happening. I also have to say the local , labour candidate has made a good impression to, a locsl girl who went to the local school and then to Oxford without any silver spoon backup.

If Johnson and IDS were to get voted out, both possibilities given they represent marginal London constituencies that might restore my faith in the political system to a point!

We can but dream!

[tigertattie]

Its the divisiveness that’s hurting us.

Can’t mind the guy’s name, but he was on Question Time a couple of weeks ago and he said that there simply isn’t enough good calibre politicians out there for us to choose from.

The Tories have swung further to the right. Labour have swung further to the left. The SNP are off to the left also but their independence at all costs mentality makes them a one issue party that will happily damage the long term stability of the Scottish Economy to get what they want. Meanwhile the Lib Dems try to float around in the centre ground but they flip flop on issues so you don’t know where they stand.

This general election is likely to be a hung parliament meaning nothing will be done again but there is a real risk that the Tories sweep up more seats and get a majority. "Leave" constituencies are most likely going to vote Tory so they can get their Brexit. "Remain" ones are likely to split their votes between Labour and Lib Dems which will let the Tories walk into power. Meanwhile the SNP hoover up the labour vote in Scotland meaning its even more likely that Labour wont get enough seats to topple the tories.

Grim times, grim times indeed.

Still, at least we all agree that if the question were to be posed again for a second time, if you really think things through and look at the matter in a logical fashion, every one of us from ASBO to FES would agree that Alan Solomons wasn’t right for Edinburgh!

[Tramptastic]

At least Solomons brought Cornell du Preez with him. At his peak for Edinburgh he was amazing!

[RDW]

Also, for the record, Im sorry to hear there were actually fallings out over political differences from the last indyref. It wasn't something I experienced in the real world, despite my friends and family being split on the issue.

Most discussions I had were reasonably good debates, there seemed to be lots of information released from both sides of the debate, with very few references to Braveheart, Bannockburn, 1690 or sectarianism which was something I thoroughly expected to rear its ugly head!

There was a lot of that, and not just on here. RuggerRadge used to post a lot on here and he said he stopped speaking to his sister for a long time because of it - they had a major falling out being on opposite sides!  There was huge division in the country at the time, and it still lingers on.

Mrs RDW was called a traitor by a Yes representing door to door canvasser - it was ugly times.

That's horrific, there's zero excuse for that kind of noise. Honestly I mind reading about families and friends being divided but it just never seemed to come to that kind of falling out with people I knew

Sorry to hear yourselves had that experience!  

Lib dems is also a bit risky as they've become Tory-lite with all the defectors joining up with them. I also voted for the lib dems during clegg mania and I've never felt more betrayed in politics so I don't think i could ever vote lib dems again.

Corbyn is a divisive but historically he's been on the right side of issues - opposing apartheid (when a lot of the british government supported it), opposing the iraq war, opposing the bombing in Libya. I'm a big fan of his, historically, being a pacifist. However, people should be focusing on his policies, not his personality (he's pretty devoid of one), and his policies are fairly sensible - renationalisation, ending austerity, clamping down on tax avoidance - whats not to like?

In Scotland, as you say with Davidson leaving, I think it'll be close to a clean sweep for the SNP. Andrew Murray in Edinburgh South will probably be last labour standing again (which is good, he's a good politician thats done a lot of good work for Edinburgh South)

Sounds great on paper - the implementation might be more troublesome! Renationalisation - I have zero faith that public servants will run the railways any better than private companies, plus with limited public funds comes limited investment and technological advancement (the price you pay for letting companies take profits). Ending austerity - brilliant, but where's the money coming from? Tax avoidance, also good but the risk you run here is these huge companies could pack up and leave to another country where they can get a better deal, taking the hundreds of thousands of jobs with it!

[EWT Spoons]

So trying desperately to get this thread back on track, Edinburgh face a big game this weekend, as it seems Bordeaux are taking the Euro comp fairly seriously given their result against Wasps.

Glasgow come up against Hoggy (and the rest of the Exeter team obviously), Exeter haven't looked amazing so far this season, but neither have Glasgow.

Also, I caught some of the Exeter game and forgot about their mental native american chants and apparel. Such a weird route to go down

[RDW]

So trying desperately to get this thread back on track, Edinburgh face a big game this weekend, as it seems Bordeaux are taking the Euro comp fairly seriously given their result against Wasps.

Glasgow come up against Hoggy (and the rest of the Exeter team obviously), Exeter haven't looked amazing so far this season, but neither have Glasgow.

Also, I caught some of the Exeter game and forgot about their mental native american chants and apparel.  Such a weird route to go down

[tigertattie]

So trying desperately to get this thread back on track, Edinburgh face a big game this weekend, as it seems Bordeaux are taking the Euro comp fairly seriously given their result against Wasps.

Glasgow come up against Hoggy (and the rest of the Exeter team obviously), Exeter haven't looked amazing so far this season, but neither have Glasgow.

Also, I caught some of the Exeter game and forgot about their mental native american chants and apparel.  Such a weird route to go down

Threads on track are reserved for match threads. This is the banter thread where anything goes (except discussions on how Glasgow are "unfairly" treated by the SRU - we need to have a limit on the amount of fake news on here)

[Tramptastic]

Sounds great on paper - the implementation might be more troublesome! Renationalisation - I have zero faith that public servants will run the railways any better than private companies, plus with limited public funds comes limited investment and technological advancement (the price you pay for letting companies take profits). Ending austerity - brilliant, but where's the money coming from? Tax avoidance, also good but the risk you run here is these huge companies could pack up and leave to another country where they can get a better deal, taking the hundreds of thousands of jobs with it!

Aye but the top 10 companies that run our railways are owned or part-owned by foreign governments. So in essence our privatized railway system is subsidizing these national railways of holland, germany, france, hong kong etc. On top of that we also give out millions of £ in subsidies to the private companies to help them run the railway lines AND our train fares are continually going up.

Now that the railways are privatised it means their primary goal is not to provide a service for the people of this country but to make money for the company owners.

In terms of technological advancement being made redundant due to nationalisation - rubbish! the trains that are made can be bought in dependant on the need of the railway line e.g. "we need a more efficient engine to run a bullet train from Edinburgh to London, whats on the market?". Its just the actual running of the railway line that needs to nationalised, not the engine or track production. You can still employ private companies to design new railway lines etc but yeh, the fact that flying to london is cheaper than getting the train shows privatization has failed.

[bsando]

Political chat?! Oh no. Seems a rather civilised conversation though and some well balanced arguments above. I personally think privatisation and public ownership needs to work in unison and that currently some re-nationalisation could be hugely beneficial. The privatisation "experiment" as some have been calling it recently, has certainly shown that we, the people, can be shafted for profits. Rail, utilities and phone network companies are the obvious examples. I think Labour is thinking big and bold and though they may encounter problems along the way it could reinvigorate some very deprived areas of the UK. Currently, I believe London is getting bigger and richer while other cities and towns diminish which is one major cause of the division we are seeing in UK society.

[tigertattie]

Nah nationalisation doesnt work. Neither does communisim!

I know folk dont like the big companies earning big profits off our money, but nationalising things jsut means our money is poured down a drain instead.

Look at this idea of givng every house free broadband. Utter pie in the sky thinking. It's a great idea but how is it paid for?

And dont get me started on the SNPs pledge to give the EU average as a state pension. Where is this money coming from?

[Tramptastic]

Nah nationalisation doesnt work. Neither does communisim!

I know folk dont like the big companies earning big profits off our money, but nationalising things jsut means our money is poured down a drain instead.

Look at this idea of givng every house free broadband. Utter pie in the sky thinking. It's a great idea but how is it paid for?

And dont get me started on the SNPs pledge to give the EU average as a state pension. Where is this money coming from?

Its not being poured down the drain, its subsidising other nations nationalised railway systems

Do you disagree with our current system of Healthcare communism?

I hate the idea of paying more tax if it helps pay for a privatised service. It makes my skin crawl knowing my tax is going to Richard Branson. However, if our services were nationalised, I wouldn't mind paying more tax towards this as I can see the results in better transport services, healthcare, education etc. Look at Germany or any of the Scandinavian countries - higher tax rates, better public services, better quality of life

[Tramptastic]

Also, on socialism not working - our planet is literally dying and slowly becoming inhospitable to life. Economists and business leaders want eternal growth on a planet of finite resources otherwise capitalism doesnt work (if theres no growth in a company, nobody buys shares, everybody sells shares, company collapses - fairly broken system there).

So capitalism doesn't work either

[RDW]

So at a risk of bringing things back to rugby, I'd like to see Cockers go full metal jacket for the Bordeaux game and start our strongest team, so that we can then also go hammer and tongs away to Munster with the same team the week after. It could be a real chance for us to pick up a crucial away win over our conference rivals, particularly since they may rest players for that game given it is sandwiched between 4 Champions Cup games. We can then use the Wasps double header to refresh and rotate meaning we can go into the annual slaughter of the great unwashed fully refreshed and raring to go.

We'll still be without McInally and Nel after their extended rest periods but should have everyone else back this week, other than any current squad injuries.

Can't imagine the above will happen though - far too sensible a plan...

[BigGee]

I would be very surprised if Bordeaux are bringing a full strength team and this again is a decent opportunity to experiment a bit more and bring more players on before his hand is forced by international selections down the line.

Edinburgh look like the genuinely have a bit of depth now and really should be making use of it.

Why not give Sheil another start, surely he deserves it. You can have Groom/HP on the bench this time if they are needed.

Same with George Taylor, who must be pushing Matt Scott very hard now for the starting place.

A few players, who have hardly made it back from the WC yet, like Graham and Mata definitely need a run out but others need to be rewarded for playing well.

I would imagine that he will play a mixed team again of starters and squad players, but probably load the bench this time, so there is some serious cavalry to come on later on if needed.

[BigGee]

Nick Haining been cited for an alleged head butt in the Agen game on Friday, hearing is tomorrow

[RDW]

That'll be the standard 6 weeks reduced to 3 for good behaviour then.

He's been a decent signing for us but we've got plenty to chose from in the back row just now.

[tigertattie]

Cowboy Dave confirmed as off to Oz at the end of the year.

Best kept secret in rugby since warren gatland getting the lions job.

Don’t think Dave has brought Glasgow on in any way so probably a good thing for the weege in the long term.

[BigGee]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/dave-rennie-confirmed-as-new-wallabies-head-coach-warriors-replacement-already-appointed/

Here is the full story

Press reporting that Danny Wilson is going to replace him, to be confirmed tomorrow.

If that is true then it is not the big name we might have hoped for, but maybe that person is just not out there and available at the moment.

DW did very well with an under budget Cardiff Blues team but has not set the heather on fire as Scotland forward coach for sure. Maybe he is the kind of coach more suited to club rugby and working with the same group of players every day.

Sounds like both the Warriors and the Scotland coaching setups are going to get a shake up next season though, which is maybe no bad thing. O'Hallrahan is out of contract at the end of this year as well and may feel it is time to move on. Maybe Mike Blair back in as full time backs coach?

I have no idea who might be coming in for Scotland either?

[RDW]

Strange time to issue the statement - unless it's to catch Wednesday morning in Aus.

[BigGee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44465601

Just a reminder that Danny Wilson was thought very highly of as a coach before coming to Scotland. He may still come good!

[funnyExiledScot]

Jeez, back in the day me and ASBO were frog marched out of this place for talking politics, just because I schooled him on independence (my words, not his).

I will say the following:

1. Independence remains the number 1 threat to Scotland. I despise Brexit, but whilst Sturgeon tells us the EU is a massive market (rightly), she overlooks that Scotland's largest market is the UK, by a distance. I find it very hard to agree with Boris, but he was right to say the Union is a priority.

2. I joined the Lib Dems when Corbyn seized Labour from the centre and dragged it hard left. I haven't looked back and frankly feel quite smug. Only one party offers an end to Brexit and no 2nd independence referendum. End of. Tactical voting is akin to trying to play fast rugby but picking slow forwards. Nonsense.

3. Whilst Charlie Shiel or Nick Groom are fit, Henry "slower than Laidlaw" Pyrgos must not start. Ever. Slow ball kills us!

4. George Taylor (12) is my new hero. Finally a centre that speeds up into contact, rather than slow down. No more Chris Harris....

[Kingshu]

You never know stuart lancaster may be looking for a head coaching role of his own next season?

[George Carlin]

In two minds about Rennie. He's a great guy, no doubt about it. The fact that he never took the Warriors back to the promised land is down to a number of factors, some of which really have to be attributable to him. I think that he fell in love with coaching a talented Glasgow backline to attack in the same way as his Chiefs did and completely forgot about the fact that you need a decent tight five to actually get the ball in the first place.

He certainly got the Wallabies on the basis of his Super Rugby reputation and not his accomplishents in the past 3 years. Fair dos to the guy though - back to back championships is quite an achievement. Good luck to him. No strong feelings on a replacement. Doesn't need to be a marquee name but I hope that Bomrys has actually looked around rather than just blindly backfilling with internal staff.

Speaking of the promised land, I am back in Scotland for a bit as I have 6 weeks off before starting a new job in January (global general counsel for an international company, scary as sh!t) and so am staying at the Raeburn in Stockbridge just to see what it's like to have a bit of quality in my life. I will obviously walk in wearing my Warriors fleece and ask if I can have a Tennants Super with my squash risotto.

[RDW]

Danny Wilson appointed Glasgow head coach.

There goes the Glasgow pack's chances of improving!

[NeilyBroon]

I think that move was to get him out of the Scotland post without contract troubles. Tbf could do worse, he wasn't a bad blues coach.

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

Poor weegies, remember that time they thought Cruden was in his way? And now they thought they were getting a proper coach but instead they’ve been made a retirement home for underperforming SRU staff. Tough break fellas.

[bsando]

Well I didn't see that one coming. Who will the SRU lineup as new forwards coach of Scotland next season?

I really thought O'halloran was going to get the job but maybe he wants to return to NZ. Not sure how to feel about this, I think Wilson is still pretty fresh but so was Toonie and he won the Pro14 with Glasgow so it could be a really good appointment.

[Tramptastic]

I've yet to read anywhere that states Wilson won't be involved at all with the Scotland team - is he doing both jobs?


Edit: Just read the full statement from glasgow warriors Wilson to step down from the scotland team after the six nations

[funnyExiledScot]

Not sure about the Danny Wilson announcement. Seems a pretty big step down from Rennie, at least on paper. I wonder how the Glasgow players feel about this. Most of them will know him pretty well.

[NeilyBroon]

As i said i expect this is to get him out of the Scotland post. I dont imagine he'll maintain both roles, it won't be like assistant positions where they can jump between roles. Head coach is very much full time so I doubt he'll have further involvement in Scotland. My money is the SRU will wait to see how toonie does, then potentially either move cockers in at forwards coach with an eye as a long term replacement for toonie or an up-and-coming coach, like roddy grant or dalziel etc. Either way I don't expect they'll splash the cash. As you can tell I'm not terribly optimistic about our future coaching options!

[RDW]

Fair play to Rennie for sticking with Glasgow until the end of the season - I'm sure there would have been a lot of pressure from his new employers to come out earlier. Shows the kind of man he is.

Good men don't necissarily make good international head coaches however, and he's got a real basket case on his hands with Australia. Wish him all the best.

I suspect the comments about Wilson being moved out of the Scotland post are fair - things haven't really worked in our pack with him in charge. It's not exactly a ringing endoresment for Glasgow if he's been deemed not good enough for Scotland so shifted to Glasgow...

On that point I saw a hilarious interaction on the Scottrish rugby fans Facebook group which pretty much sums up what that place is like:

Angry weegie - "surely with the £35m investment Glasgow can get a more high profile coach, this is ridiculous from the SRU"

Sensible poster - "So which high profile coach would you like?"

Angry weegie - "um, I don't know"

Sensible poster - "........"


He then went on to say Glasgow should get another Rodger Cockerill as he seems to be doing alright.

(I may have deliberately altered that last bit for comedic effect)

[Tramptastic]

Rennie is on to a bit of a win-win with Australia though - how much worse could it possibly get?

He doesn't have the taint of Folau clouding his selection issues...

He doesn't have a well documented falling out with the head of the ARFU...

He hasn't fallen out with any current/former Ozzie superstars...

He wasn't at the ARFU when they cut the Western Force...

Yeh he's got way less baggage, trophies in New Zealand, what in retrospect has been a good record with Glasgow - knock out stages each year in the league, a final at Celtic park (not his fault Hastings went mental), knock out stages of Europe (being knocked out by the Saracens Juggernaut).

As much as we all might feel Glasgow have under performed since Toonie left, it's not Rennies fault that Pete Horne, Chris Fusaro, Ryan Wilson and Nick Grigg are some of the best players GW have on their books!

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