Glasgow and Edinburgh banter thread no. 23 - New season, new thread

by **BigGee** Mon 09 Sep 2019, 5:34 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well a new season is probably time to start off a new thread.

2 weeks to the start of the season and both sides with one more pre season game to go. A lot of unknowns this season again, due to the number of players away with Scotland and other countries for the WC.

For Glasgow, can they continue their general excellence that took them on a fantastic end of season run to the Pro 14 Final, where they just fell short. It might be their last campaign under Dave Rennie, so can they go one better?

Edinburgh also have questions to ask, the main one being whether they can ever pass the ball past the FH and how soon before their wingers are likely to go blue from hypothermia? On a more positive note though, they may finally be playing in Mini Murrayfield by autumn 2020. So only one more year to bear playing in the library!

Good luck to both teams for the coming season, though Edinburgh are more likely to need it than Glasgow!

by Hazel Sapling Thu 21 Nov 2019, 3:10 pm

Forgot Matt Smith as well. Criminally underused and probably has to leave to move up the order. Wish Glasgow made a play for Newcastle's Graham for a season loan.

Edinburgh have put out a strong side and really like some of the back-up players this season. Fenton has been solid, Hoyland has rebuilt himself, Haining is a good back-up, Shiel is pushing for minutes and G Taylor may beat Chris Dean out of the back-up centre spot having already pushed Johnstone out.

by funnyExiledScot Thu 21 Nov 2019, 3:35 pm

BigGee wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ratu-tagive-glasgow-warriors

Quite a back story for Tagive, I did not know any of that and it does him great credit. Hopefully he can push on and fulfil his potential for us.

SQ now and we are not exactly overflowing with good wing options for the future, with a few of the incumbents beginning to knock on a bit, so who knows where he may go on to, Rennie certainly seems to rate him now.

Goodness, all news to me. Agreed on the paucity of wing options, particularly wingers with power. Graham and Hoyland are both good flyers but it's handy to have someone who can go through players as well.

by **RDW** Thu 21 Nov 2019, 3:46 pm

It is something I've thought about in the past - there must be many occasions when clubs let players go knowing it's going to put them in financial hardship. I get that's just the nature of professional sport, but it's not something I could easily do.

by **BigGee** Thu 21 Nov 2019, 4:04 pm

I suppose it is less of an issue with young players who may not have the same financial commitments as older ones, but yes professional sport is a brutal business.

Other aspects of life can be brutal as well though, pkenty of other people lose jobs through no fsult of their own.

I once got laid off from the printing firm whete i was working at the time ss i had got knocked off my bike and had a broken leg. They basically did not want to psy me for being off sick!

Character building they call it! Did not feel like that at the time!

by tigertattie Thu 21 Nov 2019, 9:59 pm

Not worried about wingers.

We have graham and blairhorn (blairhorn won’t get much time at 15 with Hogg around)

There’s also DTH mk2 who will be SQ for the AIs next year.

Don’t care what any Glasgow fan says, DTH mk2 and Graham are the perfect wing combo. One strong unstoppable when at top speed unit, one rapid accelerator with dancing feet. Tasty

Seymour is done I’m afraid. Maitland still has a couple of years left purely as he uses his nonce to compensate for losing a yard of pace. He won’t be around for the next World Cup though.

We’ve then got some youngsters coming through from the under 20s with some proper gas.

by **BigGee** Thu 21 Nov 2019, 10:10 pm

We will definitely need a couple of new wingers by the next WC, ideally a pool of a few to choose from.

Graham seems to have stepped up well and we know what Blairhorn can do, but the others have to earn their stripes. At international level, big fast wingers who can run in tries for fun at club level do often get found out in other ways, poor defence being the most common. If in doubt about that, then think of the Tim Visser example.

DTH mark 2 may be an exciting prospect, as Tagive might also be, but can they do it in a cold midweek night in Stoke, remains the question?

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 9:03 am

I wouldn't complain about either being in the Scotland squad at the moment, as with any project players they have to be significantly better than our available options imo, and they certainly are better than most on current evidence. Success breeds success and if having more foreign born players means that we'll be a better team and therefore get more young Scots into the game then that's fine by me.

I still would like to see how Hoyland gets on back on the international stage. From what I remember he has a few caps already that didn't go that well but was also quite young at the time? Also Jamie Farndale is a bit of a lump at 99kg so would be good to see what he can do. Had plenty of sevens experience so not just a battering ram.

by **BigGee** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 10:20 am

NeilyBroon wrote:I wouldn't complain about either being in the Scotland squad at the moment, as with any project players they have to be significantly better than our available options imo, and they certainly are better than most on current evidence. Success breeds success and if having more foreign born players means that we'll be a better team and therefore get more young Scots into the game then that's fine by me.

I am not sure they have to be significantly better, just better!

Once they are SQ the coaches don't distinguish between them and any other players and neither should the fans.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 10:40 am

BigGee wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:I wouldn't complain about either being in the Scotland squad at the moment, as with any project players they have to be significantly better than our available options imo, and they certainly are better than most on current evidence. Success breeds success and if having more foreign born players means that we'll be a better team and therefore get more young Scots into the game then that's fine by me.

I am not sure they have to be significantly better, just better!

Once they are SQ the coaches don't distinguish between them and any other players and neither should the fans.

Oh absolutely. Wasn't saying that. I'd consider Strauss, Visser, Nel et al. just as Scottish as the rest of the team. I have a deep Southern English accent so I could hardly talk if I took issue with it!

Still doesn't change the fact that these guys were project players, which is an unsustainable way of shoring up the national team. The reason I say significantly better is that it can be a bit of a slap in the face for those who have gone through the system, are good players but don't have bulk or other physical attributes that project players have brought in the past, which in my opinion isn't necessarily enough reason to pick them. I think also we could miss out on our own talent if we're not picky about project players. That's not to say Tagive and VDM could be great Scotland players. I think they'd potentially be great if they continue on their respective trajectories but we also have players that have come through the Scottish system who are now showing form too.

I think we're too quick to put project players on a pedestal (thinking Josh Strauss) because we think they come from a better rugby country with different skillsets that we need, whilst perhaps forgetting that these guys are individuals too and potentially only as good as what we've already got. The flipside of that is players like Nel who were just what we needed, and have proved vital to our successes but he's been significantly better than what we've got and has allowed young players like Fagerson time to improve their game.

by tigertattie Fri 22 Nov 2019, 11:43 am

Rememebr some of these guys are not porject players, they are just NSQ players who are playing/living in Scotland.

Struass and Nel were project players, they were picked by Scottish selectors while in SA and asked to come over to become SQ. It was because Scotland wanted them that they came to Scotland. Players like Tim Visser and Dave Denton were not project players, they were players who were playing rugby in Scotland and then caught the eyes of the selectors while they were here!

Semantics perhaps, but still!!!

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 11:55 am

VDM hasn't hidden that he's a project player!

I'll accept that Visser was a happy coincidence though!

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 12:03 pm

In unrelated news, Jones has obviously been caught sh*tting in Rennies coffee, as he's still out of the squad. Is he injured or is this just Rennie's clear disregard for him as a player?

Rest of the team looks solid enough. Nice to see Horne Jr holding his position. Could this be the season he gets first choice nailed down over Price?

I can't see Glasgow winning at Exeter but could get a LBP.

by **BigGee** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 12:13 pm

tigertattie wrote:Rememebr some of these guys are not porject players, they are just NSQ players who are playing/living in Scotland.

Struass and Nel were project players, they were picked by Scottish selectors while in SA and asked to come over to become SQ. It was because Scotland wanted them that they came to Scotland. Players like Tim Visser and Dave Denton were not project players, they were players who were playing rugby in Scotland and then caught the eyes of the selectors while they were here!

Semantics perhaps, but still!!!

Denton's mother is Scottish he was never a project player.

I don't think Johnson nor Tagive could be described as that either, they were certainly not brought over here with the intention of playing for Scotland, but rather, in Johnson's case in particular, have just blossomed as players whilst here.

I think the whole concept of project players is dead now that the 5 year rule is in place. Anyone who plays here for 5 years more than deserves to be considered.

by **RDW** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 7:48 pm

Pyrgos already slowing things down

by tigertattie Fri 22 Nov 2019, 7:54 pm

They streaming the game again?

by **RDW** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 7:57 pm

Aye.

I'm using radio Scotland commentary - you just need to get used to the time delay

by **RDW** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 7:59 pm

Sau is looking a good find - his kick chase is excellent.

by tigertattie Fri 22 Nov 2019, 8:16 pm

The delay is a bit rotten but the camera work lol. It’s like they have Kinghorn’s maw filming it with a hand held camcorder.

It’s free though so you get what you “pay” for I suppose

by tigertattie Fri 22 Nov 2019, 8:18 pm

I honestly could have made that kick

by jimbopip Fri 22 Nov 2019, 8:23 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:In unrelated news, Jones has obviously been caught sh*tting in Rennies coffee, as he's still out of the squad. Is he injured or is this just Rennie's clear disregard for him as a player?

Rest of the team looks solid enough. Nice to see Horne Jr holding his position. Could this be the season he gets first choice nailed down over Price?

I can't see Glasgow winning at Exeter but could get a LBP.

DR has been quite clear that Not A Pony needs to improve his defence. It would be inconsistent to pick him ahead of Grigg after Grigg's Herculean defensive shift last week. I don't think there is anything sinister in DR selecting Grigg. As for the bench; tactical kicking will be extra important tomorrow to stop Execeterr setting up driving mails or pick and goes close to our line... Furra Linee as the back up 10/12 rather than Shug as 12/13 cover.

by **RDW** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 8:25 pm

Scrappy first half with Edinburgh making a lot of mistakes. Can't imagine it's going to be an easy halftime debrief from Cockers!

This is a strong Bordeaux team we're up against though and our defence has been good.

by tigertattie Fri 22 Nov 2019, 8:38 pm

Do the officials not know that you can’t slap the ball out of a players hands?

by tigertattie Fri 22 Nov 2019, 8:50 pm

Oooo. Looked like a night night John

by **RDW** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 8:50 pm

Bad looking injury for Barclay.

by **RDW** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 8:51 pm

Good to see Barclay walking off - looked like a bad shoulder injury but appears to actually be a HIA

by **RDW** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 8:57 pm

Ooft Radrada is an absolute beast

by tigertattie Fri 22 Nov 2019, 9:06 pm

I’m going to Murrayfield for some steaks. Never seen so many butchers in my puff

by tigertattie Fri 22 Nov 2019, 9:13 pm

Great covering tackle from Berghan there

by **RDW** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 9:22 pm

Draw probably a fair result but Edinburgh will be disappointed not to get the win.

by tigertattie Fri 22 Nov 2019, 9:24 pm

If in doubt, butcher it

Ref was rather poo but our handling gave that to Bordeaux

No idea why Pyrgos got the full 80. He was mince

by **RDW** Fri 22 Nov 2019, 9:35 pm

There was a real lack of control from Edinburgh, often forcing the final pass when a good platform had been set up. We were lacking cutting edge too other than 'give it to VDM' who did a lot of damage.

Worth saying Bordeaux were offside pretty much all game!

by funnyExiledScot Fri 22 Nov 2019, 9:56 pm

Pyrgos described on Facebook as "Laidlaw on tranquilisers".....

Shiel MUST take over.

by tigertattie Fri 22 Nov 2019, 10:28 pm

Anyone watching I’m a celebrity?

I’m actually liking James Haskell. Rather funny but also seems a decent fella.

I’m conflicted

by TJ Sat 23 Nov 2019, 8:10 am

but you only had to look at the smile on Rennie's face when asked about Hogg last week to know that the Warriors have cooked something up here.

"We love him, but I think you'll find he'll be facing a few high balls in the early minutes. He might have Ryan Wilson running at him. Wilson is very keen to see him again. He said even if he was injured he wanted to play in this one."

From the beeb. :-)

by tigertattie Sat 23 Nov 2019, 9:33 am

Ryan Wilson most likely wants to meet him aff the bus as they say

He’s exactly the kind of muppet with an ego that thinks he can prove his bantz and skills but flying into Hogg with an early high tackle injuring both players

by **RDW** Sat 23 Nov 2019, 11:48 am

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/reports-jones-wants-stormers-return/

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Sat 23 Nov 2019, 11:59 am

Wouldn’t be at all surprised if that’s true, would also probably be the best thing for him at this point given Rennie’s apparent disdain for him

by **BigGee** Sat 23 Nov 2019, 12:09 pm

It would make sense all round, brst years of his career and DR seems intent on ruining him.

I duppose the main issue would be money though could they afford him, he is on some serious wedge

by tigertattie Sat 23 Nov 2019, 12:39 pm

BigGee wrote:It would make sense all round, brst years of his career and DR seems intent on ruining him.

I duppose the main issue would be money though could they afford him, he is on some serious wedge

He needs to think long term though. Won’t get a good deal with anyone if he’s not playing rugby. Might need a 20% cut to ensure he gets to play rugby and can then look to make it up by heading to France or japan in a few years time after he’s been in the shop window.

Utterly incredible that cowboy Dave rates Grigg over him.

Bonkers

by tigertattie Sat 23 Nov 2019, 7:47 pm

Very much looking forward to the annual slaughtering of the hair gel wearing, faked tanned powderpuff team from the west.

They’ve got some serious lack of power from 1 to 15

Any team that plays a physical game just blows Glasgow away in the second half.

Bru’s stones to the mast, the festive double header will be Edinburgh by 15 points over two legs

by bsando Sun 24 Nov 2019, 11:35 am

RDW wrote:https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/reports-jones-wants-stormers-return/

Wow! I think after looking at last weeks team sheet for Exeter and the continued non inclusion of Jones in the Pro14 games it made it very clear something wasn't right. It's hard as a fan because Rennie is a class coach and you don't want to hear something like this is happening but I guess that's professional rugby sometimes.

Very disappointing, but don't want to point blame at either Rennie or Jones without knowing the cause of the problem that exists between them. Jones needs to be playing rugby if he want's to be included in the 6N so if that means a move back to SA then why not? Ideally though he'd stay in the NH and move to a different club in need of a centre regardless of their position in Top14, Pro14 or Premiership. Bad news for Glasgow though, he should have been playing regularly at 13 alongside Johnson. Can't imagine Toonie is happy either.

by bsando Sun 24 Nov 2019, 11:51 am

https://www.theoffsideline.com/huw-jones-stormers/

by tigertattie Sun 24 Nov 2019, 12:06 pm

bsando wrote:https://www.theoffsideline.com/huw-jones-stormers/

To save folk clicking on the link there is absolutely no official link on jones going to the stormers from either jones or the club. The source is a SA website that says jones wants to move. Very much a “my pal walks the dog of a fella who cleans windows for someone who has a website and they said.......” type of story

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 24 Nov 2019, 12:40 pm

I heard Aaron Cruden is gearing up to replace HJ when he moves.

My friend who is Dave Rennie's 2nd cousin's tree surgeon says that DR said, "We're so rapt that we've run out of Christmas paper. Aaron Cruden will revolutionise outside centre, a position where we can already call on the talents of Griggo the pocket rocket and... Huw? Who's that? Oh I thought that was one of our marketing guys, he's always at the photoshoots. I didn't realise he actually plays."

by **BigGee** Sun 24 Nov 2019, 1:00 pm

I think that DR either needs to pick shuugy next week v Leinster and give him a run over the ndxt euro gsmes and xmas or let him go.

One thing HJ has never had since he has been at Glasgow is a run in the team. Part due to injury, part form but he surely must deserve a chance.

If you are not going to give him thst, then cash in and move on

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 24 Nov 2019, 1:07 pm

Agreed, you have to feel sorry for him as when he's played he's given no reason not to involve him. It's almost like he's gained a bad reputation from coaching hearsay and now is refused opportunity based on that. Of course it's hard when we don't know the full story but we're paying him enough so he should at the very least be in the 23.

by bsando Sun 24 Nov 2019, 2:39 pm

Absolutely all hearsay regarding a move to Stormers but if there are rumours appearing online then that does give us fans cause for concern. I desperately hope it is just rumours and there's no truth in it because it would be a shame to see him out of contention for the 6N.

by **BigGee** Sun 24 Nov 2019, 3:04 pm

Well Glasgow probably get some kind of a lifeline by Sale msking a horlicks of attempting to get a BP against La Rochelle, who got a red and 2 yellows in their match.

Sale win and the French get zilch, they are zero points from 2 gsmes now and surely will be losing interest fast in this comp

Sale could easily lose both games to Exeter in the double header.

So in short, we probsbly need to win home and away and want Exeter to do the ssme.

by **BigGee** Sun 24 Nov 2019, 5:15 pm

Absolutely cracking game down in Montpellier this afternoon which thd French just pipped drspite hsving a man sent off for an elbow to the head.

Chris Harris had a good game and Alex Craig, ex Scotland U20 was MoM. He looks like he has filled out a bit since his junior days and looks a bit of a prospect now.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 25 Nov 2019, 12:22 pm

Well a couple of aggressive locks may go some way to making up for a lightweight backrow for Scotland. Good there's another potential option! If we still have luck with injuries toonie really doesn't have much excuse to not win three this 6Ns!

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