Scotland 6 Nations Thread

by Highland Shaun Sun 01 Dec 2019, 11:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

With the 6N fast approaching, I thought I'd be the first to start a thread for it, my team being Scotland because its my nationality lol.

First of all, we know that Danny Wilson won't be coaching as he's off to coach Glasgow plus there are rumours of Matt Taylor the assistant going with Rennie to Australia so that leaves a couple of vacancies available, hopefully after the 6N, the main head coach one will be available too, which I would suspect Richard Cockerill would be the outright fav for, but that's a topic for after the 6N.

So, who would you like to see be in our 6N squad, are there any new caps that are likely, are there any players possibly getting recalls or would we likely see any younger players get a shot.

This is the place to discuss so go ahead

.

by **RDW** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 12:41 pm

Is it just me or do Hoggy's social media accounts no longer exist?

by **BigGee** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 1:01 pm

I think he has deleted them. New start when he went to Exeter

by **BigGee** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 1:15 pm

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/i-stood-up-and-was-struggling-to-breathe-it-was-very-scary-cornell-du-preez-on-the-moment-joe-launchbury-crushed-his-throat/

This is an old article about CDP injury last season and about the one he sustained playing for Edinburgh. It sounds like he feels he has some unfinished business in a Scotland shirt.

To me, even now, he has never quite regained that dynamism he had before the leg break, but when you see him play he is a complete brute, both sides of the ball and you know what you will get from him. He has been a pivotal part of Worcester's success this season and deserves his recall.

by **RDW** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 1:26 pm

BigGee wrote:I think he has deleted them. New start when he went to Exeter

I saw him post something yesterday! A picture saying it was good to be back at Scotstoun.

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 1:40 pm

Good looking squad, especially happy he's giving Haining a look, I can imagine him stepping up nicely and Bradbury needs someone breathing down his neck as a boot up the erse.

Backs as expected really apart from no PH but I expect he is on speed dial, as will Wilson be with the forwards. Shame for Taylor that he's the fall guy for the WC selection but I'd argue Scott is in better form anyway.

This is as positive selection as it can get really so I'm hoping the structures behind the scenes are better otherwise the selection's a bit of a moot point.

My only real question mark would be Hogg as captain. Maybe he has matured a bit at exeter. He's at least passionate but needs to know when to rein it back.

by **RDW** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 1:51 pm

16 Edinburgh players and 13 from Glasgow - that's got to be the first time in a long time that Edinburgh outnumber Glasgow? 12 forwards from Edinburgh - literally a pack and a half - further suggesting that the balance of squads in Scotland isn't right.

What's of slight concern for me is that a number of the squad are pretty short on gametime. For example this weekend we could really do with Ritchie, Bradbury, Crosbie and Haining getting gametime for Edinburgh against Agen but they will unlikely all be picked, especially with Mata around. Similarly both Sutherland and Bhatti are really short of gametime behind Schoeman.

by **RDW** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 1:51 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Good looking squad, especially happy he's giving Haining a look, I can imagine him stepping up nicely and Bradbury needs someone breathing down his neck as a boot up the erse.

Backs as expected really apart from no PH but I expect he is on speed dial, as will Wilson be with the forwards. Shame for Taylor that he's the fall guy for the WC selection but I'd argue Scott is in better form anyway.

This is as positive selection as it can get really so I'm hoping the structures behind the scenes are better otherwise the selection's a bit of a moot point.

My only real question mark would be Hogg as captain. Maybe he has matured a bit at exeter. He's at least passionate but needs to know when to rein it back.

He has pretty much covered this in his interview!

https://www.scottishrugby.org/fanzone/hogg-captaincy-wont-change-the-way-i-play

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 2:01 pm

That just reminded me of one of the unsuccessful occasions Hogg has been captain Shocked

It seems the only times he's been put in charge we've been losing or on path to lose.

I don't know, he's too much of a Sean Lamont character, gets angry about Scotland doing badly then chats about it to the BBC and constantly yells from the back during games. I don't think he's the right fit really. Laidlaw on his good days was a calm hand and steered the ship through some extremely rocky waters. Barclay seemed to keep the players on side and lead by example when things weren't necessarily going our way.

I don't feel like Hogg is the sort of 'wrap the arm around the shoulder' type leader because he seems to hold himself very accountable and therefore others - rather than being a calming and guiding influence but maybe that's just my impression from his frustration after losses. Again maybe his Exeter experience has helped him grow, one can only hope.

by sensisball Wed 15 Jan 2020, 2:18 pm

Also with so many tackles and breakdowns in the modern game a forward, or half back, is usually closer to the ref to have a quiet, or in Hogg's case not so quiet, word about decisions.
He and his family are still in the process of settling in at a new club and in a new environment. Certainly don't think that now is the time to put this extra pressure on his shoulders.

by EWT Spoons Wed 15 Jan 2020, 2:35 pm

I don't think Hogg is the right choice, it's largely been covered, but he can be a very selfish player (as all good players tend to be) but if you throw the burden of captaincy into the mix, he might feel it's on his shoulders to try and single handily win the game, to the determent of the team.

The times he's been captain, this has been particularly evident.

As has been said he may have mellowed/matured over time but I suspect we'll see the same issues where he develops 'Parisse syndrome' and thinks "Frak it, I'll do it myself"

Overall though the squad is decent.

by Hazel Sapling Wed 15 Jan 2020, 2:39 pm

Then again we have had these calm leaders and it has not worked. Maybe it is time to stop putting an arm around shoulders and say you can be better to more of get your **** in gear or get off the pitch.

Not sure that will work with the ref necessarily....

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 2:40 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:I don't think Hogg is the right choice, it's largely been covered, but he can be a very selfish player (as all good players tend to be) but if you throw the burden of captaincy into the mix, he might feel it's on his shoulders to try and single handily win the game, to the determent of the team.

The times he's been captain, this has been particularly evident.

As has been said he may have mellowed/matured over time but I suspect we'll see the same issues where he develops 'Parisse syndrome' and thinks "Frak it, I'll do it myself"

Exactly. He does that without even being captain. He has his work cut out to keep the players on side, therefore it is vital he keeps his ego/temperament in check.

Oh well. New tournament. New hope, although at least it's more the hope of "it can't get much worse than the WC" rather than "We may win this year!"

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 2:43 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Then again we have had these calm leaders and it has not worked. Maybe it is time to stop putting an arm around shoulders and say you can be better to more of get your **** in gear or get off the pitch.

Not sure that will work with the ref necessarily....

True, but when it's a systemic failure he'd risk alienating players who are just going through the moves etc. Everyone makes mistakes and a captain should be particularly pragmatic about them. It's like in any workplace. You'd rather a boss who says "okay so there's a problem here, how can we solve it?" rather than one who goes "you're s**te I don't know why I've hired you". Having worked for both I know who I worked harder for!

I get equally you don't want a captain like McInally who clearly isn't comfortable leading.

by bsando Wed 15 Jan 2020, 3:13 pm

Sam Skinner has been registered by Exeter Chiefs for their European squad. That’s a good step forward for him! Sure we’ll see him link up with the squad named today sooner rather than later.

by tigertattie Wed 15 Jan 2020, 3:16 pm

BigGee wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/i-stood-up-and-was-struggling-to-breathe-it-was-very-scary-cornell-du-preez-on-the-moment-joe-launchbury-crushed-his-throat/

This is an old article about CDP injury last season and about the one he sustained playing for Edinburgh. It sounds like he feels he has some unfinished business in a Scotland shirt.

To me, even now, he has never quite regained that dynamism he had before the leg break, but when you see him play he is a complete brute, both sides of the ball and you know what you will get from him. He has been a pivotal part of Worcester's success this season and deserves his recall.

I was scoffed when I said that one day, we could be in the cinema watching the CDP Biopic starring Jeremy Renner as CDP. The film follows CDPs rise, then tragic injury and subsequent re-rise where he completes his journey by Captaining Scotland to thier first world cup win where Scotland Beat England in the group stage, defeated SA in the Q/F, overcame Wales in the Semi and then trounced NZ in the final.

Scoffed I was. Scoffed.

But it's going to happen. Just you watch!

by bsando Wed 15 Jan 2020, 3:20 pm

Alright then, going by the squad announced today for Ireland in a few weeks...

1. Sutherland
2. Brown
3. Nel
4. Cummings
5. Gray
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. CDP
9. Horne
10. Russell
11. Maitland
12. Scott
13. Jones
14. Graham
15. Hogg (C)

16. McInally, 17. Dell 18. Fagerson, 19. Gilchrist, 20. Bradbury, 21. Price, 22. Hastings, 23. Hutchinson

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 3:43 pm

Swap sutherland for dell, scott for johnson and thats pretty close I reckon

by **RDW** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 3:49 pm

Will CDP really start at 8? I know Bradbury has been a bit lazy lately but he has credit in the bank for Scotland.

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 3:53 pm

RDW wrote:Will CDP really start at 8? I know Bradbury has been a bit lazy lately but he has credit in the bank for Scotland.

Probably not although I was going on Tattie's CDP biopic for guidance. I heard Clint Eastwood wants to direct.

by bsando Wed 15 Jan 2020, 4:30 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW wrote:Will CDP really start at 8? I know Bradbury has been a bit lazy lately but he has credit in the bank for Scotland.

Probably not although I was going on Tattie's CDP biopic for guidance. I heard Clint Eastwood wants to direct.

Eastwood would be a good choice! However female directors are more in fashion these days so how about Lorene Scafaria?

by **BigGee** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 4:49 pm

Its a new era Toonie selection, so he might roll the dice:

1. Dell - by default the only one with any experience
2. Brown - nothing in it with Mcinally
3. Fagerson Z - changing of the guard and has been on fantastic form recently
4. Gray
5. Cummings
6. Ritchie
7. Watson
8. CDP - Puts the gauntlet down to Bradbury, who sometimes seems better of the bench
9. Horne G - just but very close
10. Russell
11. Graham
12. Hutchinson - plays 12 as often as he does 13 for Saints
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

Subs:

Sutherland - needs to prove himself off bench then could start later in tournament
McInally
Nel - will steady the scrum if we are struggling later on
Craig - looks a prospect
Bradbury - hopefully benching will nark him into a decent performance
Price
Hastings - can cover FB as well as FH if there is an injury in back three
Scott - again looked at his best making a big impact off the bench in the second half v Glasgow

by **RDW** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 5:59 pm

Apparently Thomson hasn't played due to another concussion. Really not good for him given his history.

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 6:04 pm

Surely youve got to reach the point where your doctor insists you stop. Thats 3 major concussions in the last year by my count.

by **BigGee** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 6:17 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Surely youve got to reach the point where your doctor insists you stop. Thats 3 major concussions in the last year by my count.

It may be that they are just being very cautious with him and not rushing him back. RG I believe has had a few as well, as you would imagine playing all those years in the second row in France carrying the ball into brick walls.

by jimbopip Wed 15 Jan 2020, 6:51 pm

Having seen the squad....are we Dark Horses now?

by 123456789. Wed 15 Jan 2020, 7:06 pm

Every year I think I've grown up and moved past the "Our Year" philosophy. Every year the squad is picked and it's clear I have not. Fortunately this feeling tends to disappear almost as soon as the starting side for the first game is announced. I am quite excited at the prospect of a midfield of a midfield of Russell, Hutchinson and Jones. Especially if Toonie goes with Graham, Maitland and Hogg as the back-three and Horne at scrum-half. I therefore fully expect him to pick Pyrgos at 9, Johnson (no bad thing) and Harris at centre and McGuigan on at least one of the wings.

by bsando Wed 15 Jan 2020, 8:14 pm

Good side Big Gee, I’d be happy with that. We really are spoilt for choice at centre at the moment, injury wise that is.

Also, just incase any Glasgow fans missed it, Edinburgh supplie de 3 more players this year Very Happy

by **BigGee** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 9:09 pm

bsando wrote:Good side Big Gee, I’d be happy with that. We really are spoilt for choice at centre at the moment, injury wise that is.

Also, just incase any Glasgow fans missed it, Edinburgh supplie de 3 more players this year

More players in the squad, but I think about the same number in the matchday squad, certainly going by my team.

Certainly from a Glasgow perspective, I am happy enough with that as we will be able to get a stronger team out and hopefully pick up some points in the window, we certainly need them.

by **BigGee** Wed 15 Jan 2020, 11:19 pm

https://www.theoffsideline.com/will-the-gregor-townsend-tombola-throw-up-any-surprise-winners-this-six-nations/

The ins and outs of the squad selection from Toonie and in some detail.

Sound like Lang would have been in the squad, maybe Taylor as well if not for Sarries scheduling. It might make it difficult for Maitland to play the first game v Ireland as well, as it looks like he will only be able to make one training session before they head off abroad for their training week.

The squad will get trimmed down to 32 for the trip to Portugal and then down to 28 for the game over in Dublin. I imagine we will see a few changes after the first two games when some of the others might come back in.

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 8:04 am

Sounds like craig may feature at some point. Do you think he'd even make bench for Ireland? I'd be tempted to say crosbie may even make the 23... depending on toonies starting backrow.

Im actually quite hopeful that we may see a few more dice rolls. Toonie's under pressure but maybe he's starting to realise conservative selection wont cut it if he wants Scotland to perform, especially the way he talked about some of the older players not picked.

Theres always been positive noises from the Scotland camp but at least this year it feels like it's tempered with realism a bit.

by bsando Thu 16 Jan 2020, 8:46 am

I can't see Craig benching unless he really has a stormer in his last few club fixtures prior to the 6N. I'm sure he will bench at some point though. GG is a great player, but the more I've seen him play the more I think he isn't a heads up rugby player. He often falls over before going into contact and is a bit tunnel visioned at times. Scotland could do with a lock who is looking for the sensible offload to create more momentum whilst being good at getting over the gain line. Gray on his day does exactly this, for example against Japan in the RWC.

Townsend could definitely do with injecting a little more dynamism in the forwards. Under Cotter Scotland used to have Laidlaw pass to a pod of forwards who would then pop pass to the forward next to them or carry it in to contact. Under Townsend it's been mostly been Laidlaw passing and a forward going into contact. Recycle, repeat, fling it to the backs to try and score off first phase ball. Japan used the inside pass very effectively against us in the RWC as did Ireland. Simple stuff but keeps defences guessing. The RWC was far too backs orientated in attack in my opinion. Rush defences are so good now you need to vary the attack a lot more.

by **RDW** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 8:51 am

That article said Craig has only made 4 pro appearances - surely that cna't be true? I had it in my head he's played a lot for Gloucester this season.

by bsando Thu 16 Jan 2020, 9:08 am

According to the Gloucester Rugby player stats he's had 555mins of first team rugby this season, including games in Europe.

by **BigGee** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 9:10 am

RDW wrote:That article said Craig has only made 4 pro appearances - surely that cna't be true? I had it in my head he's played a lot for Gloucester this season.

That's not right, maybe they meant 4 starts, though I think it is quite a lot more than that.

I think Craig will get some game time and maybe in the first 2 games before Skinner comes back into the equation. He is a workhorse lock that carries well and would maybe offer more off the bench than Gilchrist, who is just a workhorse. Gray never really needs replaced anyway unless he is injured, he can always go a full 80 mins. With Craig on the bench you have the option of two carrying locks on the park at one time, or two tackling machines if you are trying to close out a game.

by **RDW** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 9:33 am

it is a bit ridiculous that there is a Prem round the week before the 6N starts, and even more ridiculous that Saracens play on the Sunday. Even more so that the England players won't be playing that weekend but all the other nationalities will be! Toonie directly linked this to the reason why Taylor isn't in the squad and suggested Maitland may not play against Ireland.

Personally I would still pick Maitland - it's not like winger is an overly physically demanding position and he should be able to back up a game 6 days after. He's one of our most experienced players too so can't see the missed training sessions being a big deal.

I just think a back 3 of Kinghorn-Graham-Hogg is a bit too green/flakey for the Irish.

by tigertattie Thu 16 Jan 2020, 9:35 am

jimbopip wrote:Having seen the squad....are we Dark Horses now?

Crazy Horses perhaps

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 9:47 am

Maitland is an intelligent player and we definitely need that with the headless stuff we play sometimes. He also isnt a glory hunter and so often sets up opportunities that others wouldnt so agree, he should play with kinghorn benching.

by **BigGee** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 9:50 am

RDW wrote:it is a bit ridiculous that there is a Prem round the week before the 6N starts, and even more ridiculous that Saracens play on the Sunday. Even more so that the England players won't be playing that weekend but all the other nationalities will be! Toonie directly linked this to the reason why Taylor isn't in the squad and suggested Maitland may not play against Ireland.

Personally I would still pick Maitland - it's not like winger is an overly physically demanding position and he should be able to back up a game 6 days after. He's one of our most experienced players too so can't see the missed training sessions being a big deal.

I just think a back 3 of Kinghorn-Graham-Hogg is a bit too green/flakey for the Irish.

It seemed to me that he is including Maitland in the squad and not Taylor as we are fairly well stocked with centres and not so much with wingers. We could get away with Graham-Hogg-Kinghorn, they are all pretty established now but one injury and we are in trouble and would you even bench some of the other options, who have no international experience?

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:13 am

BigGee wrote:
RDW wrote:it is a bit ridiculous that there is a Prem round the week before the 6N starts, and even more ridiculous that Saracens play on the Sunday. Even more so that the England players won't be playing that weekend but all the other nationalities will be! Toonie directly linked this to the reason why Taylor isn't in the squad and suggested Maitland may not play against Ireland.

Personally I would still pick Maitland - it's not like winger is an overly physically demanding position and he should be able to back up a game 6 days after. He's one of our most experienced players too so can't see the missed training sessions being a big deal.

I just think a back 3 of Kinghorn-Graham-Hogg is a bit too green/flakey for the Irish.

It seemed to me that he is including Maitland in the squad and not Taylor as we are fairly well stocked with centres and not so much with wingers. We could get away with Graham-Hogg-Kinghorn, they are all pretty established now but one injury and we are in trouble and would you even bench some of the other options, who have no international experience?

We have McGuigan and Harris to cover wing who both have relatively recent international experience (McGuigan a while back though). Harris can do a job there for sure. Steyn does not worry me, I think he could make the step up and even if he doesn't set the heather alight I'm confident he will be a solid option although hopefully he can replicate club form. We can call on Taylor on the wing too let's not forget. Hoyland can't be too far off either, again he's had a few internationals too so whilst not hugely experienced he's still better than no experience. I'm not too worried about the back three at all, we've got people who can cover positions quite well. It's more the front row that I'm bricking it over!

by 123456789. Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:14 am

It could be a tactic to keep Kinghorn interested/ motivated. Hogg being picked as captain makes him even more of a dead cert than he was before.

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:22 am

123456789. wrote:It could be a tactic to keep Kinghorn interested/ motivated. Hogg being picked as captain makes him even more of a dead cert than he was before.

My concern is that when Kinghorn is competing for a place he tries too much and takes it on himself the whole time. When he was given the freedom to step up last 6Ns he really shone but mainly because he didn't have the pressure of competing for his position.

I hope he gets a decent run at wing as it'd be criminal to waste his talent, especially as he's on better form than Hogg. He's in danger of becoming Paterson Mk II without the goal kicking.

Despite this it's hard to argue against starting Maitland as he really is a superb and mature player, not to mention experienced against most of the opposition at the top flight of club rugby. It may be a case of horses for courses and looking at the opposition to determine our backline. A luxury we could've seldom dreamt 7-8 years ago.

by **BigGee** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:23 am

McGuigan for sure is the next cab off the rank, has been consistently good for Sale over several seasons now and has had a moment or two in a blue shirt as well.

Steyn has been playing well for Glasgow but was probably better as a centre at the tail end of last season, wing not his best position and maybe could get exposed at international level.

Harris - see above but worse.

Tagive - jury out still, lots of promise and potential but not really delivered yet. Hopefully he will start for Glasgow this weekend and show us what he can so.

Hoyland - never was and never will be a good international wing, struggles for game time even at club level. He has not been picked into the squad even when we are really short on good wingers.

by **RDW** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:25 am

I'm not overly convinced on McGuigan at this level, and he hasn't played much for Sale this season - he's got so much competition there.

He'd do a job for us but isn't a frontline option for me.

by **BigGee** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:27 am

RDW wrote:I'm not overly convinced on McGuigan at this level, and he hasn't played much for Sale this season - he's got so much competition there.

He'd do a job for us but isn't a frontline option for me.

He would not be my choice either, but better than some of the other options, unless Tagive suddenly steps up, which also seems a long shot.

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:28 am

RDW wrote:I'm not overly convinced on McGuigan at this level, and he hasn't played much for Sale this season - he's got so much competition there.

He'd do a job for us but isn't a frontline option for me.

Agreed, although I wouldn't be too worried if he had to step up.

When we're down to picking Blain and A N Other then I'll start to worry a bit.

Though even with Blain, at least he could potentially show what he's made of! I think we'd have to get down to Weir playing on the wing again before that happens though. Shlong would be warming up pitchside for one last hurrah.

by **RDW** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:30 am

What's happened to the title...?

by **LondonTiger** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:31 am

RDW wrote:What's happened to the title...?

No idea, but some weird things have been happening on the forum

by **RDW** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:32 am

I've changed the title back

by bsando Thu 16 Jan 2020, 10:59 am

If anyone was gonna replace Maitland I think it would be Steyn personally. He's been doing well on the wing for Glasgow. I know he's played centre as well for them but I think he's better suited on the wing. Just my opinion.

by **RDW** Thu 16 Jan 2020, 11:03 am

bsando wrote:If anyone was gonna replace Maitland I think it would be Steyn personally. He's been doing well on the wing for Glasgow. I know he's played centre as well for them but I think he's better suited on the wing. Just my opinion.

I'd be happy with Steyn, but I think Kinghorn is the first cab off the rank.

Steyn would give us a physical presence in the back 3 though which could be useful, particularly if we go for a lightweight midfield of Hutchinson-Jones.

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