PGA Tour: The Players: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).Well done to Tyrrell Hatton, great win at Bay Hill which continued the run of non-American winners - Day, Leishman, McIlroy, Molinari, Hatton.
This was also an Open Championship qualifier and Keith Mitchell (for the second year running), Danny Lee and Dahmen get to battle the traffic at Royal St.George's in July.

2).For the second week running, the course set-up seemed to make scoring unnecessarily tricky given the prevailing weather conditions. A war of attrition, but not necessarily the most attractive golf for the TV viewer to enjoy.
Hopefully the set-up at TPC Sawgrass will enable the world's best to play their shots.

3).Scott Piercy made news for all the wrong reasons last week and now Tour Commish Monahan has expressed disappointment "in the lack of judgment used" and "that it has been addressed with Scott directly". Good thing Monahan didn't say "he knows better" because Piercy clearly doesn't. But his sponsors do, thankfully, tho' any Tour punishment will be kept unpublished - unless he starts missing tournaments, from which we might draw our own conclusions.
Personally, I'd like to have seen his "invitation" to Bay Hill revoked, but no such disapproval reported from the API.

4).Interesting graph from princedrac's twitter account this week showing the top ten owgr points-getters at The Players:
Four Americans: Woods, DLIII, Furyk, Couples
Three Aussies: Elk, Scott, Shark
Nick Price
Sergio & Langer
A good week, of which there haven't been many recently, will see Garcia can jump from 2nd to 1st, ahead of Tiger.

5).That's reflective of an international honours board with eight of the last twelve winners being "overseas" players.
And first-timers at TPC have a tough time too - after Jerry Pate won on the course's debut in 1982, only Hal Sutton and Craig Perks have won trophy on their first trip. Leading "rookie" last year was Eddie Pepperell who stormed home in 3rd place - but he's busy trying to figure out how you get dq'd three times in less than 2 years.

6).This week looks like the exact halfway point of the pre-Play-Off PGA Tour season, the 23rd event out of a total of 46. About 50 pros have already won enough FedEx Points to assure them a tee-time at the Northern Trust, Round 1 of the FedEx Cup Play-Offs.
Not many are Europeans: McIlroy, Hatton, Rahm, Hovland.

7).And only Fleetwood among other Europeans is comfortably placed, for now.
Those who have struggled this season so far, but are exempt at least through next year, include McDowell (79th), Casey (93rd), Lowry (140th), Molinari (168th), Donald (assuming he takes another earnings exemption - 172nd), Garcia (179th), Willett (181st), Stenson (197th), Wallace (202nd), Rose (205th),
While this lot, all not yet exempt for 2020/21 have it all to do: Straka (82nd), Norlander (84th), Knox (90th), Fitzpatrick (100th), Noren (107th), Rafa C-B (120th), Poulter (128th), Cappelen (130th), Laird (158th), Ventura (175th), Power (201st), Bjerregard (224th), Lewis (227th), plus 3 or 4 others on more tenuous status.

8).But one or two American "faces" are also struggling, with these three less than half-way to a Play-Off goal about 400 pts:
110th: Spieth
111th: D.Johnson
213th: Koepka

9).The Florida "Swing" has a musical chairs of dates next year, starting with Bay Hill, then The Players, followed by "Honda". No word yet on how Valspar fits in, but hopefully retains its fourth slot in Florida.

10).Finally, the Top 64 in the owgr's after The Players will qualify for the WGC-MatchPlay in Austin in a fortnight's time.

Any Valspar Notes will be added here next week.

The 2020 Open Championship is canceled. The 149th Open Championship will be played at Royal St Georges in Summer 2021

https://twitter.com/SkySports/status/1247163346031263746

GPB wrote:
The 2020 Open Championship is canceled.  The 149th Open Championship will be played at Royal St Georges in Summer 2021

https://twitter.com/SkySports/status/1247163346031263746

Nice, another couple of years before St. Andrews golf is disrupted.

I always thought belts and belt-loops were for fatties or for those who couldn't be bothered to find strides that fit properly.

Very disappointed to see The Open postponed to next year.
And sad to see Pep's mum lose her fight - no next year there.

More Major news

PGA rescheduled for Aug 6-9
US Open Sept 17-20 (At Winged Foot)
Masters Nov 12-15

Ryder Cup, still schedule for Sept 25-27

GPB wrote:More Major news

PGA rescheduled for Aug 6-9
US Open Sept 17-20  (At Winged Foot)
Masters Nov 12-15

Ryder Cup, still schedule for Sept 25-27

Something to look forward to at last!

Still think the R&A missed a trick by not going to RM. But Shane Lowry is now the Champion Golfer for two years.

kwinigolfer wrote:I always thought belts and belt-loops were for fatties or for those who couldn't be bothered to find strides that fit properly.

how very supercilious!

Kwini

You must be a lucky guy if you can find shorts/trousers that fit you exactly. I tend to find they are either just too big or too small.

Here's the latest attempt at the current schedule including cancellations, postponements, and reschedules... 

McLaren wrote:Kwini

You must be a lucky guy if you can find shorts/trousers that fit you exactly. I tend to find they are either just too big or too small.

In more ways than one, Mac

And with golf I tend to find that your trousers(pants) loosen over the round. I think the hip turn just stretches the waistband a little, and so a belt makes you feel more secure.

super_realist wrote:

Well we all have our own opinions, but if you consider hand eye coordination to be the defining part of what makes an athlete then you have to consider bowls, snooker and darts players as athletes and that's pretty ridiculous.

If they are world class and it takes physical skill, yes I do consider them athletes.

With the Masters opposite the Nedbank date it’s difficult not to see the ET pushing back the final events of the season.

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Well we all have our own opinions, but if you consider hand eye coordination to be the defining part of what makes an athlete then you have to consider bowls, snooker and darts players as athletes and that's pretty ridiculous.

If they are world class and it takes physical skill, yes I do consider them athletes.  

By that rationale world class tiddlywinks and marbles players are athletes. How utterly ridiculous.

I had a pair of golf shorts whose button came off just before a round of golf. The shorts wouldn't stay up without it. I asked the pro shop if they had a safety pin and after much thought they offered me a paper clip ! Mr. P was wearing a belt but his shorts stayed up pretty well without it, so he chivalrously lent me his belt. Some shorts need a belt more than others.

Not going to go there, Plunky . . . . . . .


In less important news, Trevor Immelman has been appointed Captain of the International Team for the 2021 Presidents Cup. Kind of a surprising choice I would have thought.
Perhaps Geoff Ogilvy, for instance, might have turned it down - probably PGA Tour preferred a candidate based in the US?
The Asian players are getting short shrift, especially KJ.
Wonder if Vijay would ever have had a shout at this if he wasn't busy sueing the Tour?!

Beltgate!

I don't think I've every golfed (long pants or shorts) without a belt. You would be hard pressed to find a higher end course pro shop in these United States that did not sell logo'ed belts.

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Well we all have our own opinions, but if you consider hand eye coordination to be the defining part of what makes an athlete then you have to consider bowls, snooker and darts players as athletes and that's pretty ridiculous.

If they are world class and it takes physical skill, yes I do consider them athletes.  

By that rationale world class tiddlywinks and marbles players are athletes. How utterly ridiculous.

To my knowledge, there are not world class competitions for tiddlywinks and marbles.

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Well we all have our own opinions, but if you consider hand eye coordination to be the defining part of what makes an athlete then you have to consider bowls, snooker and darts players as athletes and that's pretty ridiculous.

If they are world class and it takes physical skill, yes I do consider them athletes.  

By that rationale world class tiddlywinks and marbles players are athletes. How utterly ridiculous.

To my knowledge, there are not world class competitions for tiddlywinks and marbles.

There are, besides, what you are saying is that as long as you are world class at something physical, that makes you an athlete. How stupid. So someone who competes in a lumberjack competition or a sheep shearing competition is an athlete? They do have championships but they're not athletes.  Is someone who is a sculpter an athlete? That's physical, but how does it make you an athlete?

I remember watching a tournament, might have been the 1990 Masters and I nearly spat my orange squash out when the commentator referred to Ray Floyd as an athlete. He couldn't be further from one.

kwinigolfer wrote:Not going to go there, Plunky . . . . . . .


In less important news, Trevor Immelman has been appointed Captain of the International Team for the 2021 Presidents Cup. Kind of a surprising choice I would have thought.
Perhaps Geoff Ogilvy, for instance, might have turned it down - probably PGA Tour preferred a candidate based in the US?
The Asian players are getting short shrift, especially KJ.
Wonder if Vijay would ever have had a shout at this if he wasn't busy sueing the Tour?!

Why would VJ and KJ want to be part of a daft competition that no one cares about!            

Oh and then there was this

https://twitter.com/PresidentsCup/status/1247518714469044226

hmmm, one of the highlights of his career.  Imagine that.

Hardly busy doing anything else is he? Also, he's hardly going to say it's something he doesn't care about.

Have you never seen the same band twice at different venues only to hear them say that they one they are at is their favourite venue? Newsflash, people give soundbites that people expect to hear.

Holy Strawman's argument! But it doesn't surprise me that you make such a ignorant analogy to illustrate your point.

A few months ago, i makes total sense for World Class American golfers to travel halfway around the world, for no direct compensation to play an exhibition that "NO ONE CARES ABOUT".

Yep it sure makes a lot of sense.

Dustin Johnson took the entire fall season to rehabilitate an injury, just to return and make the 20 hour flight to Melbourne as his first event.

In Supers mind the idea that the Pres cup is meaningless has become unfalsifiable.

GPB wrote:Holy Strawman's argument!  But it doesn't surprise me that you make such a ignorant analogy  to illustrate your point.

A few months ago, i makes total sense for World Class American golfers to travel halfway around the world, for no direct compensation to play an exhibition that "NO ONE CARES ABOUT".

Yep it sure makes a lot of sense.

Dustin Johnson took the entire fall season to rehabilitate an injury, just to return and make the 20 hour flight to Melbourne as his first event.

It doesn't take much to make it the highlight of Immelmans career. Other than his major win he's done virtually nothing.

I don't know why you're still trying to big it up as a major event, it isn't. I don't expect you to take my claim of "No one is interested" as being literal. It is very much a minor event as we have already been over in regards to TV viewership.
Of course a small amount of players and fans are going to watch it, but it's hardly an event which has captured the public imagination. Wasn't it something like 4x as many people watched the bloody Farmers?

Immelman had an unusual array of health issues (health, not golf "injuries") so uncharitable to criticise his career achievements. To what extent it affected his health and fitness once he got relatively healthy is uncertain.


But what seems to be certain is that Messrs Morikawa, Scheffler, Bezuidenhout & McDowell are confirmed as Augusta starters via the owgr Top 50. In November. The field is sealed at 96, though hopefully one or two "Past Champions" will be smart enough to turn up just for the dinner.

super_realist wrote:

I don't know why you're still trying to big it up as a major event, it isn't.

There you go again! Claiming I said things I never said.

I asked you before for a citation where I said it was a big event. You never did (and never will).

Not every event can be a big event! And the Prez Cup isn't in the Top 10. But it is close. The Prez Cup in December was one of the most compelling golf events of the year IMO. Royal Melbourne was spectacular. Easily in my top 5 courses to see competitions. Easily beats ANY of the Rota courses and most of the Major Championship venues in America. Others in my top 5 are ANGC, Pinehurst, Shinnecock, and Pebble Beach

I get why you don't like it. But you are making big generalizations based in your insular opinions. Golf is more than Europe vs America. There is a big world outside of those area.

[quote="kwinigolfer"The field is sealed at 96 [/quote]

Haven't seen that, and hope it is not true.

Got to think a Aug 2020 Winner of the PGA Championship (or September winner of the US Open) would be invited if not otherwise qualified,

GPB wrote:[quote="kwinigolfer"The field is sealed at 96

Haven't seen that, and hope it is not true.

Got to think a Aug 2020 Winner of the PGA Championship (or September winner of the US Open) would be invited if not otherwise qualified,

[/quote]


The qualification process for 2021 is now in play according to the Golf Channel website.
A bit weird but logical also.

Can't believe a player, lets call him Viktor Hovland, can win the PGA Championship and US Open and not eligible for the Masters.

GPB wrote:Can't believe a player, lets call him Viktor Hovland, can win the PGA Championship and US Open and not eligible for the Masters.

He’s not Ishikawa.

GPB wrote:Can't believe a player, lets call him Viktor Hovland, can win the PGA Championship and US Open and not eligible for the Masters.

Unlikely, I know, but what if anyone having an exemption for the 2020 Masters by virtue of winning a previous Major that was due to run out after 2020?

Say you get a 5 year exemption into the Masters for winning PGA Championship. Jason Day won it in 2015. Say that was his only way into the Masters. If the PGA Championship winner this year gets in, where does that leave Jason Day as there will now be 6 previous PGA Championship winners in the field?

GPB wrote:Can't believe a player, lets call him Viktor Hovland, can win the PGA Championship and US Open and not eligible for the Masters.

I'm OK with it.

I'm never wrong wrote:

GPB wrote:Can't believe a player, lets call him Viktor Hovland, can win the PGA Championship and US Open and not eligible for the Masters.

Unlikely, I know, but what if anyone having an exemption for the 2020 Masters by virtue of winning a previous Major that was due to run out after 2020?

Say you get a 5 year exemption into the Masters for winning PGA Championship. Jason Day won it in 2015. Say that was his only way into the Masters. If the PGA Championship winner this year gets in, where does that leave Jason Day as there will now be 6 previous PGA Championship winners in the field?

Hypothetical there. With Day’s medical history he’s unlikely to make it past the summer anyway.

I'm never wrong wrote:

GPB wrote:Can't believe a player, lets call him Viktor Hovland, can win the PGA Championship and US Open and not eligible for the Masters.

Unlikely, I know, but what if anyone having an exemption for the 2020 Masters by virtue of winning a previous Major that was due to run out after 2020?

Say you get a 5 year exemption into the Masters for winning PGA Championship. Jason Day won it in 2015. Say that was his only way into the Masters. If the PGA Championship winner this year gets in, where does that leave Jason Day as there will now be 6 previous PGA Championship winners in the field?

Simple, your win in the PGA Championship (or either Open) gets you entry into the next 5 Masters.

The Amateurs are getting the raw end of the deal IMO. They got to forego another 7 months without getting paid for their craft it they want to play in the next Masters. that could be a hardship.

GPB wrote:

I'm never wrong wrote:

GPB wrote:Can't believe a player, lets call him Viktor Hovland, can win the PGA Championship and US Open and not eligible for the Masters.

Unlikely, I know, but what if anyone having an exemption for the 2020 Masters by virtue of winning a previous Major that was due to run out after 2020?

Say you get a 5 year exemption into the Masters for winning PGA Championship. Jason Day won it in 2015. Say that was his only way into the Masters. If the PGA Championship winner this year gets in, where does that leave Jason Day as there will now be 6 previous PGA Championship winners in the field?

Simple, your win in the PGA Championship (or either Open) gets you entry into the next 5 Masters.    

The Amateurs are getting the raw end of the deal IMO.  They got to forego another 7 months without getting paid for their craft it they want to play in the next Masters.  that could be a hardship.

I can't believe they wouldn't concoct some accommodation for guys who turn pro.

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:

I don't know why you're still trying to big it up as a major event, it isn't.  

There you go again!  Claiming I said things I never said.

I asked you before for a citation where I said it was a big event.  You never did  (and never will).

Not every event can be a big event!  And the Prez Cup isn't in the Top 10.  But it is close.  The Prez Cup in December was one of the most compelling golf events of the year IMO.  Royal Melbourne was spectacular.  Easily in my top 5 courses to see competitions.  Easily beats ANY of the Rota courses and most of the Major Championship venues in America.  Others in my top 5 are ANGC, Pinehurst, Shinnecock, and Pebble Beach

I get why you don't like it.  But you are making big generalizations based in your insular opinions.  Golf is more than Europe vs America.  There is a big world outside of those area.

Why on earth are you so vehement in your defence of the Presidents Cup? Obviously there are some people that care about it, but it's very much a minor event. I'm not sure why you are using the course to defend the event.
There is a golf world outside US v Europe, but by and large most golf fans just don't care. If they did, more would watch it, but they don't just as they don't care about the equally tinpot Seve Trophy.

GPB wrote:Simple, your win in the PGA Championship (or either Open) gets you entry into the next 5 Masters.  

Yes, but I am talking about the qualification rules as they stand. If you now say that they will be 6 immediate past PGA Champions, who is going to be left out? Do you not go as deep into the OWGR?

I'm never wrong wrote:

GPB wrote:Simple, your win in the PGA Championship (or either Open) gets you entry into the next 5 Masters.  

Yes, but I am talking about the qualification rules as they stand. If you now say that they will be 6 immediate past PGA Champions, who is going to be left out? Do you not go as deep into the OWGR?

The Masters has done "special exemptions" before.  IMO there would be nothing wrong with a couple of them being on the table if anyone not otherwise exempt plays extraordinarily well before November.  I'm talking winning the PGA or US Open... Getting in the OWGR top 20-ish... Winning the FedEx or R2D.   That kinda thing. (Winning things like Safeway, Nedbank or the John Deere don't cut it)

IMO the chances of anybody actually earning that invite are pretty low, but it wouldn't hurt to have it out there JIC somebody does.  (Nor would it bother me if there isn't any such thing).

super_realist wrote:

Why on earth are you so vehement in your defence of the Presidents Cup?

Simple. Because you are WRONG! If you don't want to get challenged about your insular opinions, then you should not post

You post as if you are stating facts when they are opinions. You haven't provided any foundation to support your claims, you have taken my posts way out of cpontext.

You have maintained that the participants don't care about ti and I have demonstrated time after time that players do care about it.

Who would get on an airplane and travel halfway around the world (during the Holiday season) and play in a tournament w/o any direct compensation. 12 USA players did.

Cejka shoots 65 in the first round. Solo 3rd.

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1247933676874334208

Wimbledon got an insurance windfall of $141 Million for canceling the event,

Wonder how much the R/A gets for canceling the Open Championship?

Not sure why Rovell's tweet is in US Dollars.

Does anyone actually believe any majors will take place this year?

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:

Why on earth are you so vehement in your defence of the Presidents Cup?

Simple.  Because you are WRONG!  If you don't want to get challenged about your insular opinions, then you should not post

You post as if you are stating facts when they are opinions. You haven't provided any foundation to support your claims, you have taken my posts way out of cpontext.

You have maintained that the participants don't care about ti and I have demonstrated time after time that players do care about it.

Who would get on an airplane and travel halfway around the world  (during the Holiday season) and play in a tournament w/o any direct compensation.  12 USA players did.

I gave plenty of sources to show that the TV audience were very low. Convenient you forgot about that. Those aren't my opinions.

Super

How can you not grasp the simple concept that the pres cup is probably about as popular as a bigger PGAT event but not quite as popular as a major? Just because it doesn't get the coverage of a the RC or the Masters doesn't mean it isn't a relatively big deal in golf.

McLaren wrote:Super

How can you not grasp the simple concept that the pres cup is probably about as popular as a bigger PGAT event but not quite as popular as a major?  Just because it doesn't get the coverage of a the RC or the Masters doesn't mean it isn't a relatively big deal in golf.

I do accept that Mac, but it's not even one third as popular as The Farmers.

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:Super

How can you not grasp the simple concept that the pres cup is probably about as popular as a bigger PGAT event but not quite as popular as a major?  Just because it doesn't get the coverage of a the RC or the Masters doesn't mean it isn't a relatively big deal in golf.

I do accept that Mac, but it's not even one third as popular as The Farmers.

What makes you think that?

Other than the week of the Farmers, is it ever discussed in the golf media?

McLaren wrote:

super_realist wrote:

McLaren wrote:Super

How can you not grasp the simple concept that the pres cup is probably about as popular as a bigger PGAT event but not quite as popular as a major?  Just because it doesn't get the coverage of a the RC or the Masters doesn't mean it isn't a relatively big deal in golf.

I do accept that Mac, but it's not even one third as popular as The Farmers.

What makes you think that?

Other than the week of the Farmers, is it ever discussed in the golf media?

Why, because that's what the TV audiences say, why else would I think that. Three times as many people watch the Farmers as watch the PC (in America at least) . Got it?

Do you have a link which shows that?

McLaren wrote:Do you have a link which shows that?

It's in the post somewhere, not like you are busy JFGI

Super doesn't have any ratings from Australia, or Korea, or Japan, or South Africa.

Super constantly complains that I am USA Centric, but there he goes, ignoring the other 98% of the world.

Lets look at a ratings comparison between the 2020 Farmers and the 2018 Ryder Cup.

USA - Centric of course, to keep it Apples to Apples.

FWIW, the 2020 Farmers maxed out at 3.2 Million viewers

https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2020/1/28/whew-ratings-return-without-nfl-return-of-stars-at-2020-farmers-insurance-open

and the 2018 Ryder Cup maxed out at 2.71 Million viewers

NBC’s final-day coverage on Sunday posted a total audience delivery of 2.71 million viewers across a 5 1/2-hour telecast (7AM-12:30PM ET), up 23 percent vs. 2014 (2.21m, Gleneagles, Scotland).

https://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-central-blog/ratings-road-ryder-cup


Oh look, GPB actually PROVIDED citations

Conclusion. The FARMERS is more Popular than the Ryder Cup!!

Super

This is almost pointless because neither of us know anything about TV ratings but a quick google shows;

2019 Pres cup got 1.7 million Viewers per minute (average) with a peak of 2.15 million (1.37 U.S. HH rating @ 23.30)(anyone know what HH rating is?)

https://nbcsportsgrouppressbox.com/2019/12/19/most-watched-cable-telecast-in-presidents-cup-history/


While all I can find for the 2019 Farmers is this from Geoff shackleford, which contains numbers without units and so therefore I have no idea what he is talking about.

Where he says "The 2019 edition drew a 2.2 against the Pro Bowl (5.7)"

Are 2.2 and 5.7 some ratings calculation, x10^6 viewers per minute, peak views. I have no idea.

https://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2019/1/28/2019-farmers-insurance-open-ratings-hold-steady-based-on-recent-years


Did you come up with anything more clear than this?


********* Just seen GPB's post, thanks ***********