Glasgow and Edinburgh ongoing banter thread 24 - Covid funtimes

[RDW]

First topic message reminder :

Previous gibberish

https://www.606v2.com/t69038p1050-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread

Fixtures

Glasgow - none

Edinburgh - none

Scotland - none

[NeilyBroon]

Yeah that was pretty special. Beaudon who?

Haha yeah Barrett didn't have the best game actually.

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/duhan-ready-scotland/?fbclid=IwAR3BZej3TMt97HkxBNUEGFwdejRVCcv-r5E_I1yoKezB7mShjItlgZNn1Bk

In other news, my Saffa mate just clocked on they're losing DVDM and was giving me some abuse. This is the article he sent me

The letter linked to that article from April is saltier than a pirate's pantaloons.

"European sides who seem increasingly unable to develop their own talent"

Ouch. Well at least half of our team are born in Scotland... It just represents the diversity of Scottish grandchildren!

The fact that so many Saffers want to come and play for Scotland is testament to Scottish culture and cuisine. Biltong has nothing on proper Scottish rolls with square sausage and a can of Bru.

[bsando]

Yeah that was pretty special. Beaudon who?

Haha yeah Barrett didn't have the best game actually.

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/duhan-ready-scotland/?fbclid=IwAR3BZej3TMt97HkxBNUEGFwdejRVCcv-r5E_I1yoKezB7mShjItlgZNn1Bk

In other news, my Saffa mate just clocked on they're losing DVDM and was giving me some abuse. This is the article he sent me

The letter linked to that article from April is saltier than a pirate's pantaloons.

"European sides who seem increasingly unable to develop their own talent"

Ouch. Well at least half of our team are born in Scotland... It just represents the diversity of Scottish grandchildren!

The fact that so many Saffers want to come and play for Scotland is testament to Scottish culture and cuisine. Biltong has nothing on proper Scottish rolls with square sausage and a can of Bru.  

Yeah that has to be it, Boerewors and Biltong are nothing on a mighty white puddin or lorne sausage.

It seems like they're struggling to manage all their talent in SA.

[tigertattie]

Simple finances I'm afraid.

Top talent goes looking for top dollar these days.

When rugby was amateur then folk would stay at their local club or at most, move to the "big" club in the area to catch the eye of international selectors. Now that rugby is pro, while playing for your country is still the highest accolade, earning maximum levels of moolah is the ultimate top priority for a rugby player.

Now clearly there's a balance on these things. If a top SA side was going to give you £100k a year and a top French club where going to give you £110k but it meant you couldn’t play international rugby anymore, you may opt to stay in SA (forgetting the International match fees, it's just an example)

But look at the top earners.

Dan C - £1.1m a year in Japan - Was getting £1.4m in France.
Pollard - £1m in France

Now those guys are exceptionally pricey. But your Finn Russell and Dan Biggars are on 500-600k a year.

The average player salary in the jeff (this counts academy players to senior pros) is £70k
The average player salary in SA is about £28k

There’s simply no way a youngster will hang around in SA if they can get double the salary. Look at DTH Mk2, if he carries on with his career and becomes well paid senior pro, he'll be looking at around £150k a year.

[funnyExiledScot]

They still managed to become World Champions for a record equalling 3rd time. I wish we had problems like that.....

[tigertattie]

They still managed to become World Champions for a record equalling 3rd time. I wish we had problems like that.....

That’s simple numbers also.

Rugby is a far bigger thing in SA than say somewhere like Scotland. Their best athletes want to become rugby players. Ours want to sing songs about Catholics or protestants and dive about football field.

But I think the worry for SA fans is they fear that they are losing thier best talents to overseas due to finances and that this will impact thier chances of winning future world cups!

[Hazel Sapling]

Can't blame these guys for going for the money. If you are offered five times the salary you are on to move to a safer country (say twice as much in real terms, purchasing power, etc.) with the potential to earn even more in a 10 year career, you take it. SA also have those additional issues relating around race, inequality and violence that are far too serious for a rugby message board.

With Huw Jones, a move to Leicester suits all parties. Glasgow have one or two senior centres too many and having a Scott - H Jones midfield at Leicester would suit Scotland. H Jones gets a fresh start at a big club that is rebuilding

[tigertattie]

As a partnership it would be great but from a Scotland point of view, to have our (potential) best centre pairing playing outside of Scotland is a bit meh!

It would have been nice fro Jones to have had a year at Glasgow without Cowboy Dave!

[jimbopip]

What's all this guff about Not A Pony? I've just checked the Warriors website and he's listed as a Glasgow player, still.

Have I missed something?

[tigertattie]

What's all this guff about Not A Pony? I've just checked the Warriors website and he's listed as a Glasgow player, still.

Have I missed something?

Rumour mill old fella, rumour mill!

Apparently its from the same "source" as the last time he was linked there which turned out to be true but then Jones stayed

Soooooooooooooo aye. Maybes aye, maybes naw!

[TheMildlyFranticLlama]

It will indeed be nice to see what Jones can achieve at Glasgow without being chronically mismanaged by Cowboy Dave. We may even see the reappearance of the talented rugby player that's been kicking his heels holding tackle bags for so long

[jimbopip]

It's a troubling one. You'd think Cowboy Dave would know a good rugby player when he saw one but; Dunbar, Matt Smith and Huw Jones apparently didn't impress him.

Mind yo some others positively blossomed under his tutelage.

[bsando]

Hopefully Jones had a good learning curve under Rennie and will kick on to fulfil his potential. In reality he should finish his career as one of Scotland's best centres in the modern game and he's already halfway there. I'd just love to see him become the complete player by patching up the little frailties to his game. His lines and attacking spark are incredible with his physicality so it'll be interesting to see how much Wilson uses him when Glasgow get up and running again.

I always forget the hidden world of agents, sponsors and fat pay checks Tattie. Edinburgh are getting their fair share of help from SA players in recent seasons now which I like to be honest, as long as they're buying into the coaches plan. Journeymen signings to fill a hole didn't work so well under Solomons time, Edinburgh stagnated. Now Cockers is providing fierce competition and drive amongst players, so adding the SA and Fijian signings is really going to help Edinburgh become a force. The only down side is some of the stories we've read recently involving Barclay and Scott.

[BigGee]

That is professional sport in a nutshell though, always going to be winners and losers.

Not unlike real life in many ways!

[jimbopip]

That is professional sport in a nutshell though, always going to be winners and losers.

Not unlike real life in many ways!

Shame on you Saint Gee Of The bedpan...we come om here to get away from real life.

[BigGee]

Sorry about that, don't know what came over me.

Realism on a rugby forum whatever was i thinking

[RDW]

It's a troubling one. You'd think Cowboy Dave would know a good rugby player when he saw one but; Dunbar, Matt Smith and Huw Jones apparently didn't impress him.

Mind yo some others positively blossomed under his tutelage.

To eb fair Dunbar was broken for most of that, Matt Smith has played what, once? Huw Jones' nickname very much pointing towards what his issues were!

[EST]

It's a troubling one. You'd think Cowboy Dave would know a good rugby player when he saw one but; Dunbar, Matt Smith and Huw Jones apparently didn't impress him.

Mind yo some others positively blossomed under his tutelage.

To eb fair Dunbar was broken for most of that, Matt Smith has played what, once? Huw Jones' nickname very much pointing towards what his issues were!

Certainly with Matt Smith, from his rare performances, it did look like he had potential - Rennie just didn't seem to rate him.

With Dunbar, given his career and position as a senior player within the squad, it seemed like he was cast aside pretty easily - but probably the right decision given his injury record and our strength at centre.

Huw Jones is a bit of a conundrum - I don't think he has been all that bad when he's been given a shot and was coming into some form this last season. Rennie certainly didn't seem to rate him all that much though and I would hope that with Wilson coming in he can show us the player we all know is in there.

[BigGee]

With Huw Jones you wonder if DR felt he was forced upon him by the SRU. He was all set to leave last contract time until the offer was upped significantly.

DR may not have thought he was worth what he had to pay and it may have effected his other signing options. Which may have annoyed him and then the fact that he was injured and played little, vindicated his view.

DR did come over as a slightly stubborn fellow from time to time.

[EST]

With Huw Jones you wonder if DR felt he was forced upon him by the SRU. He was all set to leave last contract time until the offer was upped significantly.

DR may not have thought he was worth what he had to pay and it may have effected his other signing options. Which may have annoyed him and then the fact that he was injured and played little, vindicated his view.

DR did come over as a slightly stubborn fellow from time to time.

Think there could well be a lot in that BigGee. My own hunch is similar - Jones basics aren't really his strength - he's not the best passer of the ball and his defensive positioning can be a bit suspect - rugby 101 for kiwi's.

I agree about his stubbornness, some young players really improved during his tenure (Cummings, Horne, Hastings) but for the ones he did't seem to rate there didn't seem much of a way forward.

[NeilyBroon]

Tbh I still think Jones would be better off in the prem in a side less cluttered with centres and is more likely to get a gig down there than our other international OC Grigg who for all his qualities as a club player hasn't shone as brightly on the international stage. That would leave Stafford, Horne, Grigg, Kelly, Steyn, Johnson which is more than adequate cover.

I think if he can showcase himself next season he'll be gone for the 21-22 season. Unless Glasgow at least come close to winning silverware next season (which looks unlikely given the reducing depth of the squad) there's no compelling reason for him to stay, he's not exactly been utilised whilst there so from a psychological perspective there's probably not much connection either.

Leicester look like they're building a decent squad and have a good history. Jones would do well there I'm sure. I don't think it's happening though!

[jimbopip]

With Huw Jones you wonder if DR felt he was forced upon him by the SRU. He was all set to leave last contract time until the offer was upped significantly.

DR may not have thought he was worth what he had to pay and it may have effected his other signing options. Which may have annoyed him and then the fact that he was injured and played little, vindicated his view.

DR did come over as a slightly stubborn fellow from time to time.

Think there could well be a lot in that BigGee.  My own hunch is similar - Jones basics aren't really his strength - he's not the best passer of the ball and his defensive positioning can be a bit suspect - rugby 101 for kiwi's.  

I agree about his stubbornness, some young players really improved during his tenure (Cummings, Horne, Hastings) but for the ones he did't seem to rate there didn't seem much of a way forward.

Without sounding too pretentious I think one explanation of the Cowboy Dave Conundrum might be that for all his excellence as a coach when it comes to man management he suffers from a reverse Oedipus Complex.

One thing that keeps cropping up when people discuss his strengths as a manager is that certain players are extremely loyal to him and often refer to him as a surrogate father. If this is his primary method of relating to/ managing players is it a surprise when older, more experienced players(in life in a wider sense and not just in a rugby sense) don't seem to react in the same way? What is disappointing is that when one management strategy is less than successful his response seemed to be to reject and exclude players from the surrogate family until they left.
A few years ago I worked with a Head Teacher who went on to be a Super Head managing a raft of academies and schools. I remember chatting with one of his Deputy Heads who said that he had decided to use the Head as a case study in the degree he was doing but the only problem was he could not identify the management style he used. Sometimes he was a Black Hat, sometimes a White Hat, sometimes a Knight In Shining Armour sometimes a Father Figure. Even working closely with him on a day to day basis my friend never knew what to expect.

I feel bluff, honest Cowboy Dave has one style of man management and that is it; my way or the highway. On a personal level I find it disappointing that he always needs to be the alpha male, silverback gorilla on the training ground. The contrast with Toonie is stark: Toonie is keeping the door open for Finn, all Finn has to do is meet the agreed standards (agreed by the players...they are in control) and Toonie will be glad to select him. Cowboy Dave would have sent him packing, for good, a long time ago.

[NeilyBroon]

With Huw Jones you wonder if DR felt he was forced upon him by the SRU. He was all set to leave last contract time until the offer was upped significantly.

DR may not have thought he was worth what he had to pay and it may have effected his other signing options. Which may have annoyed him and then the fact that he was injured and played little, vindicated his view.

DR did come over as a slightly stubborn fellow from time to time.

Think there could well be a lot in that BigGee.  My own hunch is similar - Jones basics aren't really his strength - he's not the best passer of the ball and his defensive positioning can be a bit suspect - rugby 101 for kiwi's.  

I agree about his stubbornness, some young players really improved during his tenure (Cummings, Horne, Hastings) but for the ones he did't seem to rate there didn't seem much of a way forward.

Without sounding too pretentious I think one explanation of the Cowboy Dave Conundrum might be that for all his excellence as a coach when it comes to man management he suffers from a reverse Oedipus Complex.

One thing that keeps cropping up when people discuss his strengths as a manager is that certain players are extremely loyal to him and often refer to him as a surrogate father. If this is his primary method of relating to/ managing players is it a surprise when older, more experienced players(in life in a wider sense and not just in a rugby sense) don't seem to react in the same way? What is disappointing is that when one management strategy is less than successful his response seemed to be to reject and exclude players from the surrogate family until they left.
A few years ago I worked with a Head Teacher who went on to be a Super Head managing a raft of academies and schools. I remember chatting with one of his Deputy Heads who said that he had decided to use the Head as a case study in the degree he was doing but the only problem was he could not identify the management style he used. Sometimes he was a Black Hat, sometimes a White Hat, sometimes a Knight In Shining Armour sometimes a Father Figure. Even working closely with him on a day to day basis my friend never knew what to expect.

I feel bluff, honest Cowboy Dave has one style of man management and that is it; my way or the highway. On a personal level I find it disappointing that he always needs to be the alpha male, silverback gorilla on the training ground. The contrast with Toonie is stark: Toonie is keeping the door open for Finn, all Finn has to do is meet the agreed standards (agreed by the players...they are in control) and Toonie will be glad to select him. Cowboy Dave would have sent him packing, for good, a long time ago.

A good summary, and it's possible it'll make or break him for the Wallabies. For a consistent top 5 side, they don't actually have huge strength in depth and arguably punch well above their weight given the preference for the league game and that one where they run around a big oval doing incomprehensible things.

His consistency in selection could help Australia's cause but if he ends up alienating a couple of big players that could spell trouble.

[jimbopip]

Actually Neily, I think his one dimensional man management and his "consistency in selection" are intrinsically linked. It's what I was alluding to in the Cowboy Dave Conundrum; so much of what he did at Scotstoun was very, very good but we consistently failedat the big moments.
Outside Parkhead before the final last year I was speaking briefly with D'Arcy rae (before he became The Fugitive and The One Armed Man) and was saying I was very surprised he wasn't in the 23 as he was in the form of his life. But the fact is DR had his starting XV and subs picked long before the final. The On Top Of The Moon site did a very good analysis recently of the % appearances of players during DR's tenure. (actually it may be on the GW website, it's the same guy does it ) Rhuaridh Jackson appeared in about 90% of the possible matches. Throughout the "first XV" there are players appearing in 75% plus. Contrast with the Toonie Tombola: in the final we won that XV had never appeared together before. Toonie regularly played units that had us scratching our heads. But he did keep opposition coaches guessing and every member of the squad invested in being at Scotstoun.
Cowboy Dave believed he knew his best side: but then again so did everyman and his dog which must have made preparing to play Glasgow slightly easier than under Toonie.

[bsando]

Laidlaw mentioned recently he had such a brilliant relationship with Vern Cotter because he was blunt and to the point. It does suit 9/10 rugby players to be fair but can cause friction too. Hamilton was clearly aggrieved he didn't get to be part of Vern's RWC squad in 2015 (losing out to Swinson). However, Swinson was less of a penalty magnet and probably suited the fast game plan more so than Hamilton who despite his size was more of a lumbering lock.

I don't really know what went wrong with Jones and Rennie but I think it's all water under the bridge now and a fresh slate beckons for Jones. I'm sure in twelve months time Jones will be very glad he remained at Glasgow and didn't jump back to Stormers. That would have been a poor decision for his international career.

[NeilyBroon]

Laidlaw mentioned recently he had such a brilliant relationship with Vern Cotter because he was blunt and to the point. It does suit 9/10 rugby players to be fair but can cause friction too. Hamilton was clearly aggrieved he didn't get to be part of Vern's RWC squad in 2015 (losing out to Swinson). However, Swinson was less of a penalty magnet and probably suited the fast game plan more so than Hamilton who despite his size was more of a lumbering lock.

I don't really know what went wrong with Jones and Rennie but I think it's all water under the bridge now and a fresh slate beckons for Jones. I'm sure in twelve months time Jones will be very glad he remained at Glasgow and didn't jump back to Stormers. That would have been a poor decision for his international career.

 

I think VC was probably one of our fairest selectors (Barclay and weird Strokosch selections aside). He also seemed to have the unanimous respect of the squad and the players seemed their happiest during that time. There's being blunt and there's having a clash of stubborn attitudes. I think the best coaches can balance being stubborn to their gameplan with flexibility to the talents available. VC seemed to marry pragmatism with a freeflowing gameplan better than any coach we've had in the last 20 years. Toonie tried to focus too much on the nutty stuff, which worked with the base left by VC but unravelled as soon as he lost McFarland who was possibly the last strain of pragmatism in that set-up.

Now we've got a couple of enforcers in Tandy and de Villiers giving us back the structure we need and Toonie seems to be taking some of the complexity out of the attacking game which is allowing the players to play. There may still be hope for Toonie yet!
 
On Jones and Glasgow, hopefully Johnny Bell will also make a difference, having been a centre himself maybe he can bring the best out in Huw that we've waited two years for since his appearance on the scene.

[RDW]

Jimbo - "without sounding too pretentious...."

"He suffers from a reverse Oedipus complex"



Also

[RDW]

Laidlaw mentioned recently he had such a brilliant relationship with Vern Cotter because he was blunt and to the point. It does suit 9/10 rugby players to be fair but can cause friction too. Hamilton was clearly aggrieved he didn't get to be part of Vern's RWC squad in 2015 (losing out to Swinson). However, Swinson was less of a penalty magnet and probably suited the fast game plan more so than Hamilton who despite his size was more of a lumbering lock.

I don't really know what went wrong with Jones and Rennie but I think it's all water under the bridge now and a fresh slate beckons for Jones. I'm sure in twelve months time Jones will be very glad he remained at Glasgow and didn't jump back to Stormers. That would have been a poor decision for his international career.

 

On this one, we've only heard Hamilton's version of events but I'm inclined to believe they weren't far from the truth - it was a case of Vern not liking him/stamping his authority.

There's no justifiable reason whatsoever from a rugby perspective that Swinson was picked - he hadn't done any of the summer training camp and had just got back from his honeymoon when he joined up with the squad at the pre-world cup photoshoot. You could even say having a player who wasn't yet fit was detrimental to the squad. Hamtilon was also probably playing the best rugby of his career by that point and by his own admission was hte fittest he had ever been.

Vern was definitely a stubborn one! Listening to Hamtilon talk it sounds like they hadn't had the most healthy of relationships throughout, and it all came to a head that summer.

[jimbopip]

Jimbo - "without sounding too pretentious...."

"He suffers from a reverse Oedipus complex"



Also

Flounder, I know you're an engineer, but.....really?

OK, Freud for spanner monkeys (part 1)

All little boys want to be big men like their daddies. In order to do that they must replace them in the hierarchy; they must symbolically kill them. Flounder, you are a big Springsteen fan go listen to "Independence Day" that's exactly what is going on in that lyric.
Cowboy Dave, seems to be the reverse side of that coin where he is the eternal father to the players who are his "surrogate sons". Look through the articles about him and see how often players refer to him being "like a father to me".
It was a fairly straightforward idea so the   is slightly baffling. Are you sure you played in the backs?

p.s. another quote function used correctly My intellectual superiority knows no bounds.

[RDW]

All clear on the description - had just never heard of the term Oedipus complex. Doesn't come up much when you're learning about concrete.

[jimbopip]

May I, humbly, point you in the direction of Sophocles' plays Oedipus Rex and Oedipus At Colona?

The Greeks, like so many older cultures, were very aware of the darkness which lurks in our psyches (a Greek word) and presented them to themselves as metaphor and myth in drama. It took another 2000 years before Freud was able to shine a light on those darknesses in scientific terms.

Are you sure you played in the backs?

[RDW]

Have you ever thought that you are the odd one out here in knowing all this stuff Jimbo, not the other way round?

If your rugby team had a backline full of people who knew their Greek plays and had many philosophical discussions then they were really doing it wrong!

[jimbopip]

I think it was Neville Cardus, the great Cricket writer, who said "What do they know of life who only cricket know?"

Or as Fat Sam my favourite Loose Head (I just know right now he's signing in the house band with Sam Cook and John Lee Hooker is playing guitar for them) once said when introducing me to some London media types, "Yes I know Jimbo doesn't look like a rugby player, in the clubhouse he sits there bespectacled, reading the Telegraph and wanting to discus poetry and philosophy but as soon as he pulls the jersey over his head it's all Burn the village! Kill the prisoners!".
we all have to find ways to exorcise our demons, Flounder.

[RDW]

A good way to be Jimbo. It's boring being just like anyone else.

Gives you a good excuse when the senility kicks in too.

My own alter-ego outside the rugby pitch was music - I didn't come across many other rugby players who were also choral singers and played several instruments!

[jimbopip]

When???

On a more prosaic note...

Danny Wilson has worked with Not A Pony at Scotland and must be very aware of his strengths and weaknesses; Tigers have offloaded lots of players and need a centre. Either he's offski before the week is out or DW rates him and he's staying to help us reclaim our rightful place as champeens.

I think he stays, but Seaman, Griggtempkin, Kelly and Not A Pony means at least one very good 13 will be getting very little game time.

[RDW]

When???

On a more prosaic note...

Danny Wilson has worked with Not A Pony at Scotland and must be very aware of his strengths and weaknesses; Tigers have offloaded lots of players and need a centre. Either he's offski before the week is out or DW rates him and he's staying to help us reclaim our rightful place as champeens.

I think he stays, but Seaman, Griggtempkin, Kelly and Not A Pony means at least one very good 13 will be getting very little game time.

I was trying to be nice

If anything you're actually getting better with age - you can now use the quote function almost every time!

[bsando]

https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO61522130U0A710C2UU8000/

Translate this to english and Laidlaw comes out as "Rai Drow"

[RDW]

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/37556/qa-jonny-gray-exeter-were-after-me-two-years-ago-but-now-felt-like-the-right-time/

Good interview with Gray the younger.

[funnyExiledScot]

Have you ever thought that you are the odd one out here in knowing all this stuff Jimbo, not the other way round?

If your rugby team had a backline full of people who knew their Greek plays and had many philosophical discussions then they were really doing it wrong!

Oedipus Rex is basically a play about incest and having an overinflated opinion of oneself. It's practically mandatory reading on the Scotstoun terraces.....

[funnyExiledScot]

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/37556/qa-jonny-gray-exeter-were-after-me-two-years-ago-but-now-felt-like-the-right-time/

Good interview with Gray the younger.

He comes across very well. Here's to hoping that Ritchie can recapture his old form and we can see Gray and Gray in Scotland colours again. A very nicely balanced combo.

[RDW]

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/featured-post/37556/qa-jonny-gray-exeter-were-after-me-two-years-ago-but-now-felt-like-the-right-time/

Good interview with Gray the younger.

He comes across very well. Here's to hoping that Ritchie can recapture his old form and we can see Gray and Gray in Scotland colours again. A very nicely balanced combo.

Agreed. For all that it's been nice to see the likes of Cummings and SKinner coming through - and the effort that the like f J Gray, Gilchrist and Toolis have put in - a fit R Gray would have been a huge asset (literally) to our pack the last few years. Especially the dodgy lineout!

[Hazel Sapling]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/it-was-a-no-brainer-ex-bok-lionel-mapoe-on-startling-shift-from-top-14-to-frances-third-tier-nicois/

Stade Nicois take on ex-Springbok. Interesting enough article on the difficulties of finding a new contract and a little bit below on Stade Nicois. Sounds like they are looking to make a real push to move in to the ProD2

[NeilyBroon]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/it-was-a-no-brainer-ex-bok-lionel-mapoe-on-startling-shift-from-top-14-to-frances-third-tier-nicois/

Stade Nicois take on ex-Springbok. Interesting enough article on the difficulties of finding a new contract and a little bit below on Stade Nicois. Sounds like they are looking to make a real push to move in to the ProD2

Good news for the exchange programme if they're drawing that kind of interest, we only need look at players like Mark Bennett to see the benefits that playing in the French leagues has for our young players, I'll be interested to see how Bain has developed.

I can see why we've been trying to rejuvinate links with London Scottish too (again), hopefully this time around with the ground switch there will be a bit more free capital to invest in improving the club. It would be great to have a decent development side in the championship. Third time lucky?

[jimbopip]

Neily, if I was one of the bumpties at SRU HQ I'd we lying awake many a long night wondering just how to turn LS into a viable income stream.
I can't see too many exiles travelling any distance to watch a side in the Championship, certainly not on a regular basis. However, IF the Pro 14 expands, IF they bring in the big Saffer sides and IF LS were re-envisioned as a viable third Scottish side....
Home games against Glasgow and Edinburgh
Leinster, Munster and Connacht.. lots of Irish lads working in London would be rolling up for those matches.
Similarly, the Welsh and SA teams would/should attract their own exiles to turn out.

IF the ground is easy to get to.
If the locale is welcoming...so not Twickers.
If the matches are entertaining and competitive...so not too many ex-Luvvies signed for LS.
This could be a viable option both in terms of earning money and developing/retaining talent.

Now if only I had £30 million squid Mrs Pip didn't know about.

[NeilyBroon]

Neily, if I was one of the bumpties at SRU HQ I'd we lying awake many a long night wondering just how to turn LS into a viable income stream.
I can't see too many exiles travelling any distance to watch a side in the Championship, certainly not on a regular basis. However, IF the Pro 14 expands, IF they bring in the big Saffer sides and IF LS were re-envisioned as a viable third Scottish side....
Home games against Glasgow and Edinburgh
Leinster, Munster and Connacht.. lots of Irish lads working in London would be rolling up for those matches.
Similarly, the Welsh and SA teams would/should attract their own exiles to turn out.

IF the ground is easy to get to.
If the locale is welcoming...so not Twickers.
If the matches are entertaining and competitive...so not too many ex-Luvvies signed for LS.
This could be a viable option both in terms of earning money and developing/retaining talent.

Now if only I had £30 million squid Mrs Pip didn't know about.

I think North London may be more viable than South in terms of costs but of course risks alienating the Richmond fans. The only place I can think of down here nearish London with easy transport links is Woking, where the football side are trying to push for a 9000 capacity stadium (currently sits at 6000) which would potentially be a bit hollow in terms of atmosphere. This being said, I am absolutely gagging for a rugby club more local than Bath/LI, I miss going to club games regularly, and I think Surrey is actually missing a pro rugby side considering the population are 75% prawn sandwich brigade (most Surreyites I know support Harlequins). That's not to mention Hampshire and Sussex, three big markets to tap into potentially.

Woking is a 30 min train ride from Waterloo so London-based fans wouldn't have much trouble getting there and would probably be cheaper to lease than going closer (and especially Twickers).

[EST]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/it-was-a-no-brainer-ex-bok-lionel-mapoe-on-startling-shift-from-top-14-to-frances-third-tier-nicois/

Stade Nicois take on ex-Springbok. Interesting enough article on the difficulties of finding a new contract and a little bit below on Stade Nicois. Sounds like they are looking to make a real push to move in to the ProD2

Good news for the exchange programme if they're drawing that kind of interest, we only need look at players like Mark Bennett to see the benefits that playing in the French leagues has for our young players, I'll be interested to see how Bain has developed.

I can see why we've been trying to rejuvinate links with London Scottish too (again), hopefully this time around with the ground switch there will be a bit more free capital to invest in improving the club. It would be great to have a decent development side in the championship. Third time lucky?

I think this will be really interesting too, I have no idea about the standard they play at but Bain seems to have been a mainstay in their team given the number of caps he has for them. Will be a good test to see if its a useful avenue for developing players. My own feeling is that these players should probably be in the Super 6 driving up the quality of that competition, but tbf this tie up pre-dates S6.

[Hazel Sapling]

Woking won't make a good London base unless we are going for a Surrey team. As pointed out, the area is a Harlequins territory. Brentford would have made sense and LI have done well to get in with them.

What about going in with AFC Wimbledon at Plough Lane? Not far from the traditional base in Richmond, located at the end of the District Line (Wimbledon) or within walking distance of the Northern (Tooting Broadway) and where a number of commuters have to go to get the train away from London. Building a 9,300 seater stadium and fan owned so would probably have a good relationship by splitting costs.

[Hazel Sapling]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/it-was-a-no-brainer-ex-bok-lionel-mapoe-on-startling-shift-from-top-14-to-frances-third-tier-nicois/

Stade Nicois take on ex-Springbok. Interesting enough article on the difficulties of finding a new contract and a little bit below on Stade Nicois. Sounds like they are looking to make a real push to move in to the ProD2

Good news for the exchange programme if they're drawing that kind of interest, we only need look at players like Mark Bennett to see the benefits that playing in the French leagues has for our young players, I'll be interested to see how Bain has developed.

I can see why we've been trying to rejuvinate links with London Scottish too (again), hopefully this time around with the ground switch there will be a bit more free capital to invest in improving the club. It would be great to have a decent development side in the championship. Third time lucky?

I think this will be really interesting too, I have no idea about the standard they play at but Bain seems to have been a mainstay in their team given the number of caps he has for them.  Will be a good test to see if its a useful avenue for developing players.  My own feeling is that these players should probably be in the Super 6 driving up the quality of that competition, but tbf this tie up pre-dates S6.

I think a tie-up with LS and Stade Nicois offers a bit of creativity with contracts. You start academy life in the Super Six, spend a year at LS in a (largely) semi-pro league and finish at Stade Nicois. You experience three rugby nations, steadily push up the ladder and finish at Glasgow/Edinburgh. If you are not quite good enough, you have auditioned in front of two different leagues and two different set of coaches.

[EST]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/it-was-a-no-brainer-ex-bok-lionel-mapoe-on-startling-shift-from-top-14-to-frances-third-tier-nicois/

Stade Nicois take on ex-Springbok. Interesting enough article on the difficulties of finding a new contract and a little bit below on Stade Nicois. Sounds like they are looking to make a real push to move in to the ProD2

Good news for the exchange programme if they're drawing that kind of interest, we only need look at players like Mark Bennett to see the benefits that playing in the French leagues has for our young players, I'll be interested to see how Bain has developed.

I can see why we've been trying to rejuvinate links with London Scottish too (again), hopefully this time around with the ground switch there will be a bit more free capital to invest in improving the club. It would be great to have a decent development side in the championship. Third time lucky?

I think this will be really interesting too, I have no idea about the standard they play at but Bain seems to have been a mainstay in their team given the number of caps he has for them.  Will be a good test to see if its a useful avenue for developing players.  My own feeling is that these players should probably be in the Super 6 driving up the quality of that competition, but tbf this tie up pre-dates S6.

I think a tie-up with LS and Stade Nicois offers a bit of creativity with contracts. You start academy life in the Super Six, spend a year at LS in a (largely) semi-pro league and finish at Stade Nicois. You experience three rugby nations, steadily push up the ladder and finish at Glasgow/Edinburgh. If you are not quite good enough, you have auditioned in front of two different leagues and two different set of coaches.

Yeah, i'm not totally against the partnerships with Nicois - but I do struggle to see where it fits within an overall plan, especially now Super Six is  up and running.  Maybe they're playing the long game, I can see the benefit of having a relationship with a club in D2 if they manage to get there.

Perhaps a bit early to say if it's been successful, but have any of the players sent over there moved onto a pro-contract, outside of Bain?

As for LS, I really hope they can make a link up work - i appreciate there are political and funding issues - but it makes so much sense.

[BigGee]

Flockhart and Baretto (sevens)

[jimbopip]

Flockhart and Baretto (sevens)

I think both of these are likely to prove beneficial in the long term.
Flockhart looked ready for first team rugby when he played this season, but some time running with pacey backs won't do him any harm in the long run. (no pun intended).
As for Baretto, successive coaches have kept him on so there obviously must be something there. If he was fourth 9 at Scotstoun all season he would have less game time than Cockers spends at his Empathetic Team Bonding sessions. Now who was the last young 9 Glasgow farmed out to the Sevens?

Another aspect to Callista going to the Sevens is that Glasgow don't seem to be overstocked in ball carrying back rows; so either The Jale is fit and looking good, or another signing is about to be announced.

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