Glasgow and Edinburgh ongoing banter thread 24 - Covid funtimes

[RDW]

First topic message reminder :

Previous gibberish

https://www.606v2.com/t69038p1050-glasgow-and-edinburgh-banter-thread-no-23-new-season-new-thread

Fixtures

Glasgow - none

Edinburgh - none

Scotland - none

[funnyExiledScot]

The question about Kebble is whether he'll collapse in a heap after 20 minutes of international rugby!!

[Hazel Sapling]

Dell has become a forgotten man as well. LI's first choice LH has left to Northampton if memory serves so hopefully he can properly establish himself in the Aviva.

Sutherland, Dell, Kebble and Bhatti is our depth in October when things resume. Still got another Six Nations before Schoeman is qualified.

[RDW]

Jeez forgot about Dell too!

[NeilyBroon]

Dell is a solid choice, although never really kicked on from his post-lions form. Northampton is the right place for him to be to up his game though.

We've bounced back to looking reasonably comfortable at LH after a bit of an uncomfortable year or two, which is nice. It'll be a shame for Sutherland who now has less of a chance to establish himself before Schoe comes in. That being said I'm sure he'll relish the contest. To have both players in the 23 would be huge, imagine a first half against Sutherland and a second half against Schoe. They'd have to have pretty good THs to deal with that!

[Hazel Sapling]

Sorry, reread what I wrote. I meant the guy keeping Dell out of the Irish line up (Hobbs Ayomi?) has moved to Northampton. Dell is still at LI

[funnyExiledScot]

Dell is solid. OK technical scrummager but in no way destructive. He's useful around the park. I put him ahead of Bhatti but well behind Sutherland.

[tigertattie]

I'd have Shoe on to start then bring Sutherland on for the 2nd half. Sutherland is a better carrier (as in makes more then 1m before runnning into someone) so as well as demolishing a part chewed up TH that Shoe has tenderised in the first half, Sutherland would be like one of these "extra back row forwards" that we have in the likes of McInally and Brown.

If we can sort our number 8 issue out, we'll have quite the pack for the next few years.

[funnyExiledScot]

I wouldn't say Sutherland is a better carrier than Schoe at all. I'd say Schoe is a better player in just about every department, albeit Sutherland is an awkward prop to scrum against. Schoe starts and Suth comes on when he runs out of puff, as it is with Edinburgh.

If both are fit, Scotland are in good shape on the loosehead side.

[RDW]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-last-years-of-my-career-were-played-in-pain-5mtglwgm7

John Barclay announces his retirement and carries on with some of the themes he's been discussing recently. As I've said before, it's going to be interesting to hear him open up more about his experiences now he's no longer tied to a contract.

He's had more ups and downs than most but it's still been a hell of a career, and hopefully he'll look back on his period captaining Scotland with great fondness. His epic performance against NZ after Doddie came onto the pitch will live long in my memory.

[funnyExiledScot]

Terrific player, always fully committed. Underutilised for parts of his career by Scotland, but always struck me as a great pro.

He'll be a terrific pundit. It would be great if he could replace that ignoramus Andy Nicol.

[RDW]

Anyone watch the GP games and able to give a Scots update? I saw that Hoggy scored, and my brother txt me saying Matt Scott was having a stinker but I don't know any details...

[king_carlos]

Anyone watch the GP games and able to give a Scots update? I saw that Hoggy scored, and my brother txt me saying Matt Scott was having a stinker but I don't know any details...

I thought Scott was solid. Good in defence. Did little in attack but Tigers are missing all the starters in the outside backs so unsurprising the excellent Chiefs outside backs outclassed them. One pass straight past the winger into touch was poor but other than that he was solid.

Hogg was good in parts and indifferent in parts. One really poor drop from an up and under, plus a couple of poor kicks. There was also a well taken finish, a very good kick that led indirectly to a try from the ensuing Chiefs lineout and an excellent clearing kick from a scrappy bit of play with little time to get the ball away.

Jonny Gray was typically Jonny Gray like. Didn't standout but did a lot of good things and was part of the better pack. I think he could really flourish in the Chiefs setup.

Jake Kerr was solid when he came on. His lineout throwing was solid as ever and he was busy in the loose. He looked noticeably lean for a hooker. Aled Walters the Springbok head of S&C joined Tigers recently and the team as a whole looked fitter. Might help Kerr kick on as he has sometimes lacked physicality. He's fallen behind Turner in the chasing pack of Scotland hookers but Turner has had injury issues.

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne looked very vocal when he came on. Driving his forwards around the field which is what Exeter need from their 9. I was a regular at Edinburgh home games when SHC was at his best. I really hope he can rediscover that form with Chiefs.

[EST]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-last-years-of-my-career-were-played-in-pain-5mtglwgm7

John Barclay announces his retirement and carries on with some of the themes he's been discussing recently. As I've said before, it's going to be interesting to hear him open up more about his experiences now he's no longer tied to a contract.

He's had more ups and downs than most but it's still been a hell of a career, and hopefully he'll look back on his period captaining Scotland with great fondness. His epic performance against NZ after Doddie came onto the pitch will live long in my memory.

One hell of a player, and a great career. It's interesting he highlights his time at the Scarlet's as a highlight - he really was quality down there and it's ridiculous he was ignored by Scotland during much of that period, when he was arguably playing the best rugby of his life.

[funnyExiledScot]

Anyone watch the GP games and able to give a Scots update? I saw that Hoggy scored, and my brother txt me saying Matt Scott was having a stinker but I don't know any details...

I thought Scott was solid. Good in defence. Did little in attack but Tigers are missing all the starters in the outside backs so unsurprising the excellent Chiefs outside backs outclassed them. One pass straight past the winger into touch was poor but other than that he was solid.

Hogg was good in parts and indifferent in parts. One really poor drop from an up and under, plus a couple of poor kicks. There was also a well taken finish, a very good kick that led indirectly to a try from the ensuing Chiefs lineout and an excellent clearing kick from a scrappy bit of play with little time to get the ball away.

Jonny Gray was typically Jonny Gray like. Didn't standout but did a lot of good things and was part of the better pack. I think he could really flourish in the Chiefs setup.

Jake Kerr was solid when he came on. His lineout throwing was solid as ever and he was busy in the loose. He looked noticeably lean for a hooker. Aled Walters the Springbok head of S&C joined Tigers recently and the team as a whole looked fitter. Might help Kerr kick on as he has sometimes lacked physicality. He's fallen behind Turner in the chasing pack of Scotland hookers but Turner has had injury issues.

Sam Hidalgo-Clyne looked very vocal when he came on. Driving his forwards around the field which is what Exeter need from their 9. I was a regular at Edinburgh home games when SHC was at his best. I really hope he can rediscover that form with Chiefs.

Delighted to hear that SH-C made an impact. I rate him highly and this is a cracking opportunity for him at Exeter. Scotland are not short at 9 at all (Steel came on at Quins as well), but you can never have too much cover.

Your comment about Gray sums him up. He can be the top tackler in a game and yet you barely remember that he was on the pitch. I mean that as both a positive and a negative. He does a lot of "unseen" work, and Exeter and Baxter will suit him down to the ground, but if he wants to move up to the next level, I think he needs to do a bit more of the "seen" as well. Think of Itoje or Henderson, who are not dissimilar players, but just influence the game more in the key passages. The good news is that he's bang in the right place to improve. I'd love to see a Lions jersey on him.

[king_carlos]

Your comment about Gray sums him up. He can be the top tackler in a game and yet you barely remember that he was on the pitch. I mean that as both a positive and a negative. He does a lot of "unseen" work, and Exeter and Baxter will suit him down to the ground, but if he wants to move up to the next level, I think he needs to do a bit more of the "seen" as well. Think of Itoje or Henderson, who are not dissimilar players, but just influence the game more in the key passages. The good news is that he's bang in the right place to improve. I'd love to see a Lions jersey on him.

All the Exeter forwards have to carry a lot due to the number of phases they try to go through so hopefully Gray's carrying can develop at Chiefs. The pack that Baxter and now Rob Hunter have built are very clever in how they pick and go as well as carrying around the corner off 9.

I'll be interested to see how the Chiefs defence develops with the new ruck laws potentially speeding up ball for the attacking side. Chiefs have tended to rely on line speed more than dominant hits. They get off the line very quickly and have a high tackle completion rate. Whereas a defence such as Sarries also has line speed but looks for dominant hits more often, this does lead to more missed tackles but also more tackles that force an error. Higher risk, higher reward situation.

Gray's defense would suit that Chiefs system that relies on line speed and making a lot of tackles. If quicker ruck ball forces sides to be more aggressive in defence then he might need to develop and look for those dominant hits more often. I'll be interested to see how the Chiefs and Gray develop over next season. They will be overwhelming favourites in the Prem with Sarries relegated.

[Hazel Sapling]

Whilst there will be a lot of talk of Gray and Hogg at Exeter, it is really Skinner and SHC I am quite interested in how they can push on.

Skinner has not got a starting spot pencilled in with Hill - Gray the potential starting combination. The Exeter back-row is fantastic so is he going to be a bench and injury replacement for much of the year or can he force his way into a starting berth? Will wait and see whether Hill - Gray match up, but I don't want him to settle as a change of pace bench player when he has the potential for much more.

SHC, as mentioned, will have to battle it out with both Maunders and Townsend for a spot. Chudley had to go to Bath and White is probably the favourite to start for the Wallabies so the standards of those who have left sum up the level expected. For him, will he be able to find playing time in the big games and remain consistent enough to keep it? He has been fantastic at times, but he needs to be doing it week in, week out or he will get buried as the fourth choice scrum half. Exeter is the type of place that will give him opportunities and, if he takes them, he can overtake Price and Horne to be the starting Scotland scrum-half.

[jimbopip]

Seaman won't be all over the Luvvies' defence; he's hors de combat and will miss both legs.

[BigGee]

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rory-hughes-glasgow-warriors-rennie-leicester/

I don't think that DR is going to be on Rory Hughes xmas card list somehow!

Interesting what he has to say about Tigers as well though, I imagine things will be changing now though with the new coaching regime.

[NeilyBroon]

Aye I think a lot has since come out about Rennie's man management post-departure. I think he did some good but Glasgow are better without him. If DW can balance squad rotation with consistency then it'll be a step forwards imo, even if Glasgow come mid table, especially considering they're on a bit of a shoestring now.

This being said, Hughes needs to be careful about what he says in public. He's right it is a business, a business that has provided his employment. He's not so much burning bridges as laying C4 in the foundations by mouthing off in interviews straight after leaving. If he was a superstar international winger he probably would get away with it. As it stands he's not, so good thing he's got his backup career sorted!

[RDW]

Aye pretty scathing stuff, and very much reinforces the Papa Dave circle that if you're in it's great, if you're out then not so much.

Nelly raises a good point about him mouthing off while also trying to get a contract - it doesn't make him an overly appealing proposition to sign does it?

[bsando]

Sounds like it was a tougher culture than Toonies Warriors. Toonie also rotated his squad a lot more so perhaps those two factors could have been why a few players had a rough ride under DR.

[BigGee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53813903

DW pretty blunt about the financial situation and the impact it is going to have on the Glasgow squad this season.

I am actually ok with that and am looking forward to seeing a lot of the good young players getting their opportunities, which may not have happened otherwise. We are in a bit of a re-building phase and just have to accept that. Clubs that over stretch themselves just now may run into even bigger problems down the line.

[RDW]

Finlay Christie selected for the South Island squad, which is basically an All Blacks trial.

There's three 9s so he might not actually play, but it's good for him that he's in the reckoning.

[EST]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53813903

DW pretty blunt about the financial situation and the impact it is going to have on the Glasgow squad this season.

I am actually ok with that and am looking forward to seeing a lot of the good young players getting their opportunities, which may not have happened otherwise. We are in a bit of a re-building phase and just have to accept that. Clubs that over stretch themselves just now may run into even bigger problems down the line.

Both squads will be going into the season with big gaps in their squads - like you BigGee i'm ok with it. It's going to be a strange season anyway, and in some ways a good opportunity to blood these players - looking forward to seeing what a lot of them can do.

[demosthenes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53813903

DW pretty blunt about the financial situation and the impact it is going to have on the Glasgow squad this season.

I am actually ok with that and am looking forward to seeing a lot of the good young players getting their opportunities, which may not have happened otherwise. We are in a bit of a re-building phase and just have to accept that. Clubs that over stretch themselves just now may run into even bigger problems down the line.

Both squads will be going into the season with big gaps in their squads - like you BigGee i'm ok with it. It's going to be a strange season anyway, and in some ways a good opportunity to blood these players - looking forward to seeing what a lot of them can do.

To be honest, I am not entirely sure I care about who is playing where; or for whom; in what stadia. I just want to see some Scottish live rugby!

[BigGee]

https://www.theoffsideline.com/glasgow-edinburgh-richard-cockerill/?v=79cba1185463

Cockers set to sign on for another 2 years, he wants to see the project through!

[funnyExiledScot]

That's great news. Cockers has done a great job and deserves the chance to finish the job he started. I do have some nagging doubts as to whether he may have taken us as far as he can, and our backs do still frequently give the impression of being complete strangers on the field, despite being talented individually (I've never rated Duncan Hodge and wonder why we've stuck with him), but Cockers deserves the chance to prove me wrong on that front. What he has done is instilled a combative spirit across the squad and the pack in particular, which has grown during his tenure. He doesn't take the easy option, and doesn't allow the squad to make excuses, and the "softness" cultivated by Bradley and the lack of ambition fostered by Solomons appears to have been swept aside.

[bsando]

For continuity and winning trophies he’s the man Edinburgh need for a while. I hope a good Scottish coach can succeed him but for now it’s great he’s keen to stay on. It’s very exciting that Edinburgh could even be winning the Pro14 and Challenge Cup this season if they play well. I doubt they will but you never know. Cockerill is right about needing silverware to gain respect, it’s the next step.

[funnyExiledScot]

Cockerill is right about needing silverware to gain respect, it’s the next step.  

He's right, and exactly the same applies to Scotland. We can't keep on banging the drum for our players to become Lions, or shake off the dreaded "dark horses" tag, unless we actually start winning stuff and beating teams (away from home).

It's time to take the next step, or be honest about the areas in which we need to improve. Anything else is a cop out.

[Hazel Sapling]

Well looks like Southern Kings are for the chop. It is a shame as SA has the player base and the cities to have six successful sides, it seems the management is lacking.

If we are dropping to 13, either the Italians or us could have a crack at adding a third side. Alternatively, could this be the first domino to fall before CVC tries to force through a two-tier B&I league.

[NeilyBroon]

Definitely not in the position to have a third pro squad right now. Investment in sport will be down for probably the next few months at least and we're back to being in a more significant financial deficit as a union. Only potentially viable option would be London Scottish as they're already backed by the SRU and other parties. However they are a bit of a basket case and I can't really see that happening. Plus they don't have a home ground anymore!

[bsando]

I'd be more up for adding the Jaguares into the mix to increase competition and giving them a league to play in. I'm not sure what the future holds for them in Super Rugby but last I read it wasn't looking positive.

[Hazel Sapling]

I'd be more up for adding the Jaguares into the mix to increase competition and giving them a league to play in. I'm not sure what the future holds for them in Super Rugby but last I read it wasn't looking positive.

Travel and time difference would not work. It might be time to admit the South African experiment has not really worked and the two conference system is not the best. If we could have got to 16 or so teams, we maybe could have swapped to a two division system.

If we are going to persist with 14, there was talk of a Spanish team and that billionaire has a team in Germany. Certainly could add a German side as logistically easier and there is a natural backer already available.

[RDW]

SHC motm for Exeter last night - big win for them with a weakened team against a near full strength Bristol.

[bsando]

Good to see Cockers lockdown for another 2 years. I’m sure he can earn Edinburgh a trophy or at the very least keep them in consistent Pro14 playoffs and the champions cup.

[RDW]

Yeah it's really good news.

It would be a huge upset for anyone to beat Leinster in that time, but hopefully we can give it a good crack. A champions Cup semi would be a good achievement too.

[Hazel Sapling]

Leinster still have to get past Munster in the semi final as Edinburgh have to get past Ulster. Neither of Munster or Ulster are pushovers and Munster almost beat Leinster last weekend.

It is probably more important for Edinburgh to win the league than make the semi-final of the Challenge Cup. Leinster on the other hand have Saracens the week after the final in the competition they are more likely targeting.

[jimbopip]

Luvvies would be satisfied with a semi...shock horror

[RDW]

It's further in the champions cup that the weegies have ever gone!

[jimbopip]

So today the teams should be announced.
Luvvies
Cockers promised 10 changes. has he been hijacked by an alien life form while he slept; Invasion Of The Ugly Body Snatchers.
This means guessing the line up is way too difficult for me so I'll leave it to tigertattie.

Rugby Club
Does DW send out the same 23 and tell them to justify their wages? probably not. But he will want a win.

1. Kebble
2. Turner
3. Ragnar
4. McDonald
5. BigBad Bob (since Naknaks is seen by DW as a 6/8 then BBB is probably the fourth choice second row and fifth choice 6)
6. The Jale (or Nessie since sightings are very rare)
7. Fozzie? Grant Stewart? Batman?
8. Middle F then Flockhart
9. Hornito then Dobbie
10. Thompson
11. Nairn
12. Stafford
13. Seaman
14. Jones
15. Jones

[RDW]

10 changes for Edinburgh but a really exciting team. That backline!

Edinburgh Rugby team to face Glasgow Warriors at BT Murrayfield in the Guinness PRO14
Friday 28 August (kick-off 7.35pm) – live on Premier Sports



15. Blair Kinghorn (88)



14. Darcy Graham (30)

13. James Johnstone (49)

12. Chris Dean (89) CAPTAIN

11. Duhan van der Merwe (58)



10. Nathan Chamberlain (1)

9. Charlie Shiel (17)



1. Pierre Schoeman (41)

2. Mike Willemse (19)

3. Simon Berghan (79)

4. Nick Haining (12)

5. Jamie Hodgson (7)

6. Magnus Bradbury (75)

7. Hamish Watson (108)

8. Viliame Mata (72)



Replacements: 16. Stuart McInally (143) 17. Rory Sutherland (82) 18. WP Nel (140) 19. Marshall Sykes* 20. Luke Crosbie (40) 21. Roan Frostwick* 22. Jaco van der Walt (56) 23. Matt Gordon*

[jimbopip]

Team's oot!

eam:

1. Oli Kebble (48)
2. Fraser Brown (C) (99)
3. Zander Fagerson (92)
4. Richie Gray (48)
5. Scott Cummings (69)
6. Ryan Wilson (169)
7. Tom Gordon (18)
8. Matt Fagerson (62)
9. George Horne (56)
10. Adam Hastings (43)
11. Ratu Tagive (12)
12. Stafford McDowall (20)
13. Nick Grigg (70)
14. Tommy Seymour (143)
15. Huw Jones (36)

Replacements

16. George Turner (48)
17. Charlie Capps (0)
18. Enrique Pieretto (0)
19. Rob Harley (231)
20. Chris Fusaro (178)
21. Ali Price (87)
22. Pete Horne (170)
23. Robbie Nairn (9)

Unavailable for selection : Alex Allan, Adam Ashe, Hamish Bain, Mesu Dolokoto, Sam Johnson, Leone Nakarawa, Adam Nicol, Aki Seiuli, Kyle Steyn, Jale Vakaloloma.

Not quite, "Go out and earn your wages!!!" But not too far off it.

the bench is very interesting. BBB second row, no Thompson Furra at second 10/12 Robbie nairn back three. Capps turner pieretto should be interesting.

[RDW]

That's basically full strength from Glasgow (of who is available) and a much more balanced team.

If they can't beat an experimental Edinburgh team then there really is something wrong!

[NeilyBroon]

Very excited to see how the yout' get on at Edinburgh!

Also hoping to see a better performance from the Glasgow br.

[BigGee]

Much stronger from Glasgow than I had imagined, should be winning this game really.

Still a strong pack and bench for Edinburgh though and we will need to get our points on the board early on. I am actually quite interested to see how the Edinburgh half backs get on as we could be looking at their future there.

Bit of a nothing game for both sides, but still a derby nevertheless and coaches to impress.

I am looking forward to it.

[RDW]

There's still a bit to play for in that Edinburgh team. I'm not sure how long our other second rows will be injured but there will likely be at least one spot to play for. Bradbury is playing for his starting place too.

The young halfbacks will go into this with no fear - quite a first professional game for Chamberlain! (Last week doesn't count - I don't think he did anything in 4 minutes).

Otter than second row and halfbacks were still incredibly strong and a really good bench.

Glasgow should be favourites though given their greater experience in key areas.

[BigGee]

Looks like Ulster have been hit by an outbreak of Covid, that could put the cat amongst the pigeons for the semi final!

In other news it looks like Japan have dropped out of the autumn 8N series. That is going to mess up Scotland's group, I wonder if they will try and bring anyone else in?

Georgia would maybe the obvious candidates.

[bsando]

Aw no that is a huge shame. Yeah I think Georgia would be a good option, they'd get to play Italy too so that would be a nervous game for the Italians.

[EST]

Looks like Ulster have been hit by an outbreak of Covid, that could put the cat amongst the pigeons for the semi final!

In other news it looks like Japan have dropped out of the autumn 8N series. That is going to mess up Scotland's group, I wonder if they will try and bring anyone else in?

Georgia would maybe the obvious candidates.

This could get interesting - looks like the players have been stood down from training and some are self-isolating. Potential for big repercussions for Pro 14 and Champions Cup here, you would think?

[BigGee]

Looks like Ulster have been hit by an outbreak of Covid, that could put the cat amongst the pigeons for the semi final!

In other news it looks like Japan have dropped out of the autumn 8N series. That is going to mess up Scotland's group, I wonder if they will try and bring anyone else in?

Georgia would maybe the obvious candidates.

This could get interesting - looks like the players have been stood down from training and some are self-isolating.  Potential for big repercussions for Pro 14 and Champions Cup here, you would think?

Anyone self isolating for 14 days, won't be playing in the semi final!

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