Wales vs England - Build Up/Match Thread - 27-2-21

[TightHEAD]

First topic message reminder :

Wales v England

27th Feb

KO 16:46

England:

Daly;
Watson,
Slade,
Farrell,
May;
Ford,
Youngs;
M Vunipola,
George,
Sinckler,
Itoje,
Hill,
Wilson,
Curry,
B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Stuart, Ewels, Martin, Earl, Robson, Malins.

WALES

1. Wyn Jones (32 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (79 Caps)
3. Tomas Francis (54 Caps)
4. Adam Beard (23 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (CAPT) (145 Caps)
6. Josh Navidi (25 Caps)
7. Justin Tipuric (82 Caps)
8. Taulupe Faletau (83 Caps)
9. Kieran Hardy (3 Caps)
10. Dan Biggar (89 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (29 Caps)
12. Jonathan Davies (85 Caps)
13. George North (99 Caps)
14. Louis Rees-Zammit (6 Caps)
15. Liam Williams (68 Caps)

Replacements:

16. Elliot Dee (34 Caps)
17. Rhodri Jones (19 Caps)
18. Leon Brown (14 Caps)
19. Cory Hill (29 Caps)
20. James Botham (4 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (59 Caps)
22. Callum Sheedy (6 Caps)
23. Uilisi Halaholo (1 Cap)

[Soul Requiem]

Amazes me how many people don't know what a knock-on is, including ex-pros. A knock-on is when a player drops/spills the ball forward and it makes contact with the ground or an opposing player. A juggled catch by a receiving player is perfectly ok for this very reason.

It hitting ground is a part of the law 11, you can you show me where LRZ regathers control of the ball after knocking it forward?

[Duty281]

Clear try.

Useless commentary team - clueless about the laws of the game. How can they inform viewers when they themselves are ignorant? What's the point of them?

Hi Duty, he lost control of the ball in a forward direction, that it bounced off his leg and went backwards is neither here nor there. Loss of control. knock on and scrum England.

It absolutely is here and there. You need to knock the ball on to the floor or into an opposing player for a knock-on. You can't knock it on by spilling the ball into yourself. He never loses possession until it cannons off his leg backwards (no offence committed), and then it's picked up by a team-mate and scored.

Quite basic and absolutely the right call. Commentators are supposed to be informed individuals so they can educate the audience watching about the game, though they seldom are (similar commentator complaint with West Brom/Brighton earlier).

You might actually want to read the laws, the only person who can gather the ball is LRZ before it touches the ground. The moment he loses control forward it hitting the ground is irrelevant.

Don't worry, I have, just like the four people at the ground who made this decision.

[Heaf]

The same player that knocks it forwards has to regather it though!

[doctor_grey]

When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

Didn't see LRZ regather it or did I miss something?

This is the best I can do. Please share with the ref:
Lorsqu'un joueur perd la possession du ballon et qu'il avance, ou lorsqu'un joueur frappe le ballon en avant avec la main ou le bras, ou lorsque le ballon frappe la main ou le bras et avance et que le ballon touche le sol ou un autre joueur avant le joueur d'origine peut l'attraper.

[Scottrf]

Amazes me how many people don't know what a knock-on is, including ex-pros. A knock-on is when a player drops/spills the ball forward and it makes contact with the ground or an opposing player. A juggled catch by a receiving player is perfectly ok for this very reason.

If you knock it forward you must catch it before it touches the ground or an opposition player NOT spill it and kick it on.

[quinsforever]

Clear try.

Useless commentary team - clueless about the laws of the game. How can they inform viewers when they themselves are ignorant? What's the point of them?

Hi Duty, he lost control of the ball in a forward direction, that it bounced off his leg and went backwards is neither here nor there. Loss of control. knock on and scrum England.

It absolutely is here and there. You need to knock the ball on to the floor or into an opposing player for a knock-on. You can't knock it on by spilling the ball into yourself. He never loses possession until it cannons off his leg backwards (no offence committed), and then it's picked up by a team-mate and scored.

Quite basic and absolutely the right call. Commentators are supposed to be informed individuals so they can educate the audience watching about the game, though they seldom are (similar commentator complaint with West Brom/Brighton earlier).

You might actually want to read the laws, the only person who can gather the ball is LRZ before it touches the ground. The moment he loses control forward it hitting the ground is irrelevant.

Yes. AND it actually hits jonny may (or slade cant remember who was there) before it hits the ground therefor MUST have been a knockon. Alternatively if you look at where he first tried to control it vs where it touched MAy/Slade, it 200% went forwards. because it touched may/slade IN FRONT OF where he initially mis controlled it.

[bsando]

The TMO claimed it went backwards which is why they awarded the try. But it clearly didn't so no try. Even LRZ clearly thought it was a weird call because he didn't have control of the ball. They should have watched it in real time a bit more. In slow motion it looked like he had control of it slightly but he definitely didn't.

[Duty281]

Amazes me how many people don't know what a knock-on is, including ex-pros. A knock-on is when a player drops/spills the ball forward and it makes contact with the ground or an opposing player. A juggled catch by a receiving player is perfectly ok for this very reason.

If you knock it forward you must catch it before it touches the ground or an opposition player NOT spill it and kick it on.

He hasn't knocked it forward. If it goes forward off his leg then yes it has, but it goes backwards, hence at no point has a knock-on offence been committed.

[Cyril]

In better news, that chat with JD and Nige was lovely.

[quinsforever]

maybe they thought he was doing a grubber off the back of his calf?

[Heaf]

How the hell could the TMO think he knocked it backwards?

[Heaf]

Amazes me how many people don't know what a knock-on is, including ex-pros. A knock-on is when a player drops/spills the ball forward and it makes contact with the ground or an opposing player. A juggled catch by a receiving player is perfectly ok for this very reason.

If you knock it forward you must catch it before it touches the ground or an opposition player NOT spill it and kick it on.

He hasn't knocked it forward. If it goes forward off his leg then yes it has, but it goes backwards, hence at no point has a knock-on offence been committed.

Again, the LAW says forwards from hand or arm .... and it went forwards from his hand before hitting his leg

[Scottrf]

Amazes me how many people don't know what a knock-on is, including ex-pros. A knock-on is when a player drops/spills the ball forward and it makes contact with the ground or an opposing player. A juggled catch by a receiving player is perfectly ok for this very reason.

If you knock it forward you must catch it before it touches the ground or an opposition player NOT spill it and kick it on.

He hasn't knocked it forward. If it goes forward off his leg then yes it has, but it goes backwards, hence at no point has a knock-on offence been committed.

He knocked it forwards. Whatever happens from his leg doesn’t stop that offence.

If you try to gather, fumble forward, you can kick it wherever you want, it’s a knock on.

[Poorfour]

The decision for the first try was appalling. You can’t, as a ref, allow a quick penalty after you have told the opposing captain to talk to his team UNTIL you have checked that they are set.

The decision for the second try was equally appalling. Ball went forward off his hand, wasn’t regathered.

Guscott has called it - if you can’t get a red card then having the ref on your side is the next best thing. For a pundit to be that direct about a ref’s performance tells you how bad it is. That Jiffy - JIFFY - agrees that the second try shouldn’t have been given tells you how wrong a decision it was.

[quinsforever]

Amazes me how many people don't know what a knock-on is, including ex-pros. A knock-on is when a player drops/spills the ball forward and it makes contact with the ground or an opposing player. A juggled catch by a receiving player is perfectly ok for this very reason.

If you knock it forward you must catch it before it touches the ground or an opposition player NOT spill it and kick it on.

He hasn't knocked it forward. If it goes forward off his leg then yes it has, but it goes backwards, hence at no point has a knock-on offence been committed.

look where it touched May vs where Zamit first touched it.

[eirebilly]

maybe they thought he was doing a grubber off the back of his calf?

No end to his talents is there

[mikey_dragon]

When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

Didn't see LRZ regather it or did I miss something?

Does an attempt to regather / kick count?

[Poorfour]

Um, if the ball didn’t go forward, how did it end up over the try line?

[Duty281]

Amazes me how many people don't know what a knock-on is, including ex-pros. A knock-on is when a player drops/spills the ball forward and it makes contact with the ground or an opposing player. A juggled catch by a receiving player is perfectly ok for this very reason.

If you knock it forward you must catch it before it touches the ground or an opposition player NOT spill it and kick it on.

He hasn't knocked it forward. If it goes forward off his leg then yes it has, but it goes backwards, hence at no point has a knock-on offence been committed.

He knocked it forwards. Whatever happens from his leg doesn’t stop that offence.

If you try to gather, fumble forward, you can kick it wherever you want, it’s a knock on.

Yes. it absolutely does.

[king_carlos]

Billy has been so much better thus far in this game. Doing the basics well and throwing his weight around in contact.

[Soul Requiem]

Erm only if he regathers it. I'm going to become a remainer I think to stop the association with such nonsense.

[Heaf]

When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

Didn't see LRZ regather it or did I miss something?

Does an attempt to regather / kick count?

Nope - if you fumble the ball then try to kick it it's still a knock-on ...

[king_carlos]

Slowly but surely England have been playing more like they were in 2019 rather than 2020. Obvious frustrations aside this has been a stronger performances thus far.

[Heaf]

Amazes me how many people don't know what a knock-on is, including ex-pros. A knock-on is when a player drops/spills the ball forward and it makes contact with the ground or an opposing player. A juggled catch by a receiving player is perfectly ok for this very reason.

If you knock it forward you must catch it before it touches the ground or an opposition player NOT spill it and kick it on.

He hasn't knocked it forward. If it goes forward off his leg then yes it has, but it goes backwards, hence at no point has a knock-on offence been committed.

He knocked it forwards. Whatever happens from his leg doesn’t stop that offence.

If you try to gather, fumble forward, you can kick it wherever you want, it’s a knock on.

Yes. it absolutely does.

OK show us where it says it's not a knock on if it hits the leg ...

[Duty281]

Slowly but surely England have been playing more like they were in 2019 rather than 2020. Obvious frustrations aside this has been a stronger performances thus far.

Yes, and if they sort the ill-discipline they might just get a win...but that seems a forlorn hope!

[owen10ozzy]

Ok going to say it without seeing his actual percentages but Farell has gone absolutely awful with his kicking....both out of hand and his pen/conv kicking

What does he actually bring to England these days?

[tigertattie]

England love a penalty eh

[eirebilly]

Now that was a clever quick penalty take

[Mr Bounce]

Ridiculous by Hill.

[king_carlos]

Shocking penalty from Hill but well taken by Hardy.

[TightHEAD]

If players are picking up bans for making a split second mistakes in the heat of the moment then Officials have to be banned for lying and getting it totally wrong.

[doctor_grey]

OK. What is the Plan B?

[Duty281]

Slowly but surely England have been playing more like they were in 2019 rather than 2020. Obvious frustrations aside this has been a stronger performances thus far.

Yes, and if they sort the ill-discipline they might just get a win...but that seems a forlorn hope!

There we go. Penalty-penalty and then a complete switch off. Clever from the scrum-half. Reminds me of Danny Care's try in 2014 (?).

[owen10ozzy]

And England bot switched on again..

Its so amateur from them...between these absolute brain fart moments and the god awful ill discipline its hard not to suggest we either need whole sail changes in the team...or a head coach. This isnt just a one off...its become the norm over the past 18 months!

Thats game over now. Can see Wales winning by 20-25 pts here

[BigGee]

Now that was a good try, same old England penalty caused it though

[TightHEAD]

Daly you Muppet, who turns their back on the ball?

[mikey_dragon]

Was that a real try?

[Geordie]

Welsh lead by ten through ref assistance...

Had to beat Ireland and Scotland through ref assistance....

At least theres consistency....

[eirebilly]

Knock on? That went backwards, should be a line out...

[doctor_grey]

Tell me again, why is Ford NOT an idiot?

[Heaf]

Was that a real try?

Yep - first one

[Geordie]

Tell me again, why is Ford NOT an idiot?

Tell me why is he?

[doctor_grey]

Why are England kicking the pen? Attack!

[Heaf]

Welsh lead by ten through ref assistance...

Had to beat Ireland and Scotland through ref assistance....

At least theres consistency....

Difference being the Ireland and Scotland ones were fair and self-inflicted.

[quinsforever]

looks like Gauzere must have been watching his first half performance and decided to atone...strange knock on by williams that went backwards!

[No 7&1/2]

Ford ain't playing well. Surely given the bench we should be refreshing the forwards now though.

[owen10ozzy]

Oh god took the points. Bar 5 mins at end of first half weve put no pressure on Wales really...that was a chance to. I know 3 points puts us within a score but felt that was chance to give them something to think about

[doctor_grey]

Tell me again, why is Ford NOT an idiot?

Tell me why is he?

Just when England were starting to move the ball, he kicks it away again. I don't care about pushing them back. Go for it.

[Heaf]

looks like Gauzere must have been watching his first half performance and decided to atone...strange knock on by williams that went backwards!

He'll need to do a lot more than that to make up for it ...

[Geordie]

Are Enlgand missing the sheer power and Strength of Underhill...

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