Lions Watch: Six Nations Report

First topic message reminder :

Well we're nearly done with the Six Nations so if the Lions goes ahead who do you like the look of and who do you think will be touring?

The Oracle wrote:Hamish Watson isn’t Scottish?’ Really?! F***! In my head he was as Scottish as they come! Never heard him talk but I always imagined him with a full on thick Scottish accept.

English born and bred!

Check on youtube, you'll be shocked with his accent. With his name like his you'd expect him to eating haggis during interviews!

I think he was let go from Leicester for being too small??? Anyway......what a player, so much fun too watch. He'd have never made it in the English system with so much put on size, good on the lad. Really hope he tours.

English born but NOT bred. try telling him he is not scottish

Next you'll be telling us Dewi Morris isn't English.

I read a report on 1st April stating that players representing Scotland were now required to wear the sock of their own nation during internationals
Is this true?

lostinwales wrote:Next you'll be telling us Dewi Morris isn't English.

I did always laugh when Dewi Morris was playing for England and Rupert Moon for wales - I am sure they both took a wrong turning somewhere. I mean a welshman called Rupert?

Cyril wrote:I read a report on 1st April stating that players representing Scotland were now required to wear the sock of their own nation during internationals
Is this true?

You mean navy blue?

Cyril wrote:I read a report on 1st April stating that players representing Scotland were now required to wear the sock of their own nation during internationals
Is this true?

Cyril you are a minx

But what do you think will be the SA% in the England International Rugby Team come 2025, if the 5 year residency rule still apply?

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/all/domestic-club-rugby-union/36000/50-south-africans-in-the-premiership-reflects-badly-says-snyman/
This season an unprecedented number of South African-born players have played in the Premiership.

Exactly 50 have played in the English top-flight – nine or ten per cent of the overall total playing population of 499, more than the Pacific Island nations combined.

It’s a statistic that makes you question whether the RFU are getting value for money on their mega £228m eight-year deal with Premiership Rugby, to encourage the development of English-qualified talent.

However, former Leeds Tykes legend Andre Snyman believes this is more of a problem for South African rugby than a poor reflection on the English system of which he is currently a part of as head of rugby at a private school in Doncaster.

He says that as well as the top-end World Cup players like Faf de Klerk, more and more youngsters are looking to come over.

“I get a lot of calls from people in South Africa asking if I know of any clubs where they can send their kids who are 16 years old,” Snyman told The Rugby Paper.

“It’s sad that South Africans are trying to get out of the country because of politics – and under that comes crime, safety and the future of the economy – and are using rugby as an excuse.

I said this yesterday re The Vunipolas (but got told it was nonsense by a wise-guy), English Rugby have been "enticing" aka poaching players from around the globe for the last 2 decades in particular Saracens (initially) and now Sale with their SA commercial interests. Is it within the laws, rules and regulations?....yes, does it benefit England or SA rugby at the national level?..... probably not, does it benefit and enrich the individual players lives? Well yes of course.

I think from Scotland's viewpoint, it's more to do with an extremely small player base and only two professional clubs. The only way we can compete both from a club and international level is by scouring the globe for "Scottish" players, it's amazing but if you have actually spoken to Hamish (with his broad accent), he's quite clear which country has embraced him firstly as a person, but then juts as importantly as a player and he definitely feels "Scottish"

Summarise
Is it within club / international laws, rules and regulations? If the individual club or national team play within them then it's all we can agree on, the rest is just opinion

I always think Welsh players are underrated by the Irish and English in particular. Some of it comes from how bad the regions are. Then when they get together on the Lions they get to see how good they actually are.

Is it the same situation with the Scottish players? Actually you just need to give some of their players like Gray an opportunity with the Lions to see how good he is.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Cyril wrote:I read a report on 1st April stating that players representing Scotland were now required to wear the sock of their own nation during internationals
Is this true?

Cyril you are a minx

But what do you think will be the SA% in the England International Rugby Team come 2025, if the 5 year residency rule still apply?

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/all/domestic-club-rugby-union/36000/50-south-africans-in-the-premiership-reflects-badly-says-snyman/
This season an unprecedented number of South African-born players have played in the Premiership.

Exactly 50 have played in the English top-flight – nine or ten per cent of the overall total playing population of 499, more than the Pacific Island nations combined.

It’s a statistic that makes you question whether the RFU are getting value for money on their mega £228m eight-year deal with Premiership Rugby, to encourage the development of English-qualified talent.

However, former Leeds Tykes legend Andre Snyman believes this is more of a problem for South African rugby than a poor reflection on the English system of which he is currently a part of as head of rugby at a private school in Doncaster.

He says that as well as the top-end World Cup players like Faf de Klerk, more and more youngsters are looking to come over.

“I get a lot of calls from people in South Africa asking if I know of any clubs where they can send their kids who are 16 years old,” Snyman told The Rugby Paper.

“It’s sad that South Africans are trying to get out of the country because of politics – and under that comes crime, safety and the future of the economy – and are using rugby as an excuse.

I said this yesterday re The Vunipolas (but got told it was nonsense by a wise-guy), English Rugby have been "enticing" aka poaching players from around the globe for the last 2 decades in particular Saracens (initially) and now Sale with their SA commercial interests. Is it within the laws, rules and regulations?....yes, does it benefit England or SA rugby at the national level?..... probably not, does it benefit and enrich the individual players lives? Well yes of course.

I think from Scotland's viewpoint, it's more to do with an extremely small player base and only two professional clubs. The only way we can compete both from a club and international level is by scouring the globe for "Scottish" players, it's amazing but if you have actually spoken to Hamish (with his broad accent), he's quite clear which country has embraced him firstly as a person, but then juts as importantly as a player and he definitely feels "Scottish"

Summarise
Is it within club / international laws, rules and regulations? If the individual club or national team play within them then it's all we can agree on, the rest is just opinion

You could argue that the England academy system is producing plenty of talent (Just ask Wales and Scotland). We do have a much bigger professional game therefore there is a lot more space. The other component to what is going on, particularly in England (but also Wales for one) is that there are plenty of kids coming through who are the children of overseas players who came here a generation ago to join British professional teams.

flyhalffactory wrote:
I said this yesterday re The Vunipolas (but got told it was nonsense by a wise-guy), English Rugby have been "enticing" aka poaching players from around the globe for the last 2 decades in particular Saracens (initially) and now Sale with their SA commercial interests. Is it within the laws, rules and regulations?....yes, does it benefit England or SA rugby at the national level?..... probably not, does it benefit and enrich the individual players lives? Well yes of course.

I think the practice is most prevalent in France where getting them in early allows a way round the JIFF rules.

The Vunipolas were schooled in England I don't think they are a good example of the RFU or UK clubs scouring the world for young talent. Their family moved here because their dad was playing professionally over here, same with Manu Tuilagi. I'm not saying the practice doesn't happen but probably less than you assume given the professional game particularly when compared to football.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

flyhalffactory wrote:
I said this yesterday re The Vunipolas (but got told it was nonsense by a wise-guy), English Rugby have been "enticing" aka poaching players from around the globe for the last 2 decades in particular Saracens (initially) and now Sale with their SA commercial interests. Is it within the laws, rules and regulations?....yes, does it benefit England or SA rugby at the national level?..... probably not, does it benefit and enrich the individual players lives? Well yes of course.

I think the practice is most prevalent in France where getting them in early allows a way round the JIFF rules.

The Vunipolas were schooled in England I don't think they are a good example of the RFU or UK clubs scouring the world for young talent. Their family moved here because their dad was playing professionally over here, same with Manu Tuilagi. I'm not saying the practice doesn't happen but probably less than you assume given the professional game particularly when compared to football.

Afternoon Sam.
You are not 100% correct mate.
As I mentioned previously Mum didn't want her boys to play rugby but to become professional outside of sport but if they did follow dad they she wanted them to play for Wales, Dad considered them Welsh (like their close cousin Taulupe Faletau) and didn't want to move out of Wales. The two huge factors in the Vunipolas lives were 1. Religion 2. Education for their boys. Pontypool as a town couldn't provide adequate education (boys)or religious opportunities (Mum), Bristol as an area could provide that opportunity (Mum) the ministry (Mako) Millfield School (Billy) Harrow on a bursary.......as a consequence of uprooting to England and playing english rugby.
He, Feʻao Vunipola (Dad) moved to Wales in 1998 to sign with Pontypool, joining Pontypridd in 1999, then joining neighbours Caerphilly in 2001 where he played for a number of years. Mako would have been about 11 playing for New Panteg when his dad was still playing, so it's not 100% correct to say they were a rugby product or schooled in England. Bristol heard about the Vunipolas and suddenly Mum was given an opportunity to enter the church (her vocation) very shortly after Mako was in Millfield school (50 miles away) and shortly after Billy was in Harrow (150+ miles away)
Tuilagi came over at 15 because his brothers cajoled (on behalf of their respective clubs) his family to send him over. You cannot say he came over for his education
Both are classic examples of English rugby using their influence with their links to private schooling to persuade parents "to come across the waters" for better opportunities

Not saying that Wales didn't do the same with Tongans Feʻao Vunipola and Kuli Faletau (most capped played).

"But what do you think will be the SA% in the England International Rugby Team come 2025, if the 5 year residency rule still apply?"

Probably none or at a push, 1 or 2.

I'm not sure what the point of that post is to be honest Fly. you're talking about 2 very different things.

Any recruitment of SA players in the the Prem is done on behalf of the clubs, it has nothing to do with the RFU so it benefits England or not, it is completely irrelevant. We may have 50 SA players that have played in the Prem, but we have 12 clubs with 40/50 players on their books. That's an average of 4 per side....

I would suggest that the number of SA players over here is linked to the poor economy in SA rather than any push to get players tied up to England.

Take my club for example, Newcastle. We have 3 SA players in our squad, all over 30. They're good solid pros and I would take a punt and suggest they're getting paid less than similar equivalent players from the NH. Will any of them play for England? No...

Said it before England need to get much better at capping and tying players down.

Both are classic examples of English rugby using their influence with their links to private schooling to persuade parents "to come across the waters" for better opportunities

Fly, again I think you're getting a bit mixed up here.

Bristol spotting some up and coming kids and persuading them to move locally has diddlysquat to do with England and the RFU.

The clubs work completely independently on the their recruitment.

What's the chances of Paulo Odogwu going as a complete wildcard

Played great yesterday for Wasps and could be a real powerhouse back to take to SA?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Both are classic examples of English rugby using their influence with their links to private schooling to persuade parents "to come across the waters" for better opportunities

Fly, again I think you're getting a bit mixed up here.

Bristol spotting some up and coming kids and persuading them to move locally has diddlysquat to do with England and the RFU.

The clubs work completely independently on the their recruitment.

Morning Sgt and a Happy Easter
Again I beg to differ compardre. To get a anyone in Millfield is pretty hard going (JPR's parents would have vouched for that) and extremely expensive (I think even a senior day is about £12k), a bursary to Harrow even more so. I'm happy for you to prove that Bristol rugby connections managed to get Mako in without "higher" influences and even more so Billy in Harrow, it'll be a futile exercise I assure you but enlightening. I had a flatmate who was in Imperial with me (many centuries ago ) a clever guy who studied medicine, he couldn't get into Millfield.

All clubs have different recruitment models but say that they don't pick the phone up for a "bit of help from higher up the food chain" is naive to say the least. I guarantee you it happens more than you realise

This is not exclusive to England RFU, I'll absolutely guarantee you Edinburgh have done it in the past asking for a little help from above

GeordieFalcon wrote:What's the chances of Paulo Odogwu going as a complete wildcard  

Played great yesterday for Wasps and could be a real powerhouse back to take to SA?

That was a cracking game and Odogwu was on fire, he'll get tries for anyone. I'd be happy for him to be on the plane

Edinburgh are a very different proposition being wholly owned by the SRU but I can be certain there is no " help from up the food chain". they have a budget and that is it.

Ask cockers how his mid season recruitment to cover gaps went this season.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Both are classic examples of English rugby using their influence with their links to private schooling to persuade parents "to come across the waters" for better opportunities

Fly, again I think you're getting a bit mixed up here.

Bristol spotting some up and coming kids and persuading them to move locally has diddlysquat to do with England and the RFU.

The clubs work completely independently on the their recruitment.

Morning Sgt and a Happy Easter
Again I beg to differ compardre. To get a anyone in Millfield is pretty hard going (JPR's parents would have vouched for that) and extremely expensive (I think even a senior day is about £12k), a bursary to Harrow even more so. I'm happy for you to prove that Bristol rugby connections managed to get Mako in without "higher" influences and even more so Billy in Harrow, it'll be a futile exercise I assure you but enlightening. I had a flatmate who was in Imperial with me (many centuries ago ) a clever guy who studied medicine, he couldn't get into Millfield.

All clubs have different recruitment models but say that they don't pick the phone up for a "bit of help from higher up the food chain" is naive to say the least. I guarantee you it happens more than you realise

This is not exclusive to England RFU, I'll absolutely guarantee you Edinburgh have done it in the past asking for a little help from above    

The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that the RFU had an influence on his school scholarship not the other way round.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Both are classic examples of English rugby using their influence with their links to private schooling to persuade parents "to come across the waters" for better opportunities

Fly, again I think you're getting a bit mixed up here.

Bristol spotting some up and coming kids and persuading them to move locally has diddlysquat to do with England and the RFU.

The clubs work completely independently on the their recruitment.

Morning Sgt and a Happy Easter
Again I beg to differ compardre. To get a anyone in Millfield is pretty hard going (JPR's parents would have vouched for that) and extremely expensive (I think even a senior day is about £12k), a bursary to Harrow even more so. I'm happy for you to prove that Bristol rugby connections managed to get Mako in without "higher" influences and even more so Billy in Harrow, it'll be a futile exercise I assure you but enlightening. I had a flatmate who was in Imperial with me (many centuries ago ) a clever guy who studied medicine, he couldn't get into Millfield.

All clubs have different recruitment models but say that they don't pick the phone up for a "bit of help from higher up the food chain" is naive to say the least. I guarantee you it happens more than you realise

This is not exclusive to England RFU, I'll absolutely guarantee you Edinburgh have done it in the past asking for a little help from above    

Nope. You're just wrong on that one. The RFU really have no say with clubs and the PRL.

Morning and a happy easter 7.5

"Nope. You're just wrong on that one. The RFU really have no say with clubs and the PRL"

I don't know what you mean by that. What am I wrong about?

England’s aim of becoming the dominant force in the global game has been strengthened by a new agreement signed by the Rugby Football Union and Premiership Rugby Limited.

The eight-year partnership between Twickenham and the Premiership clubs, worth over £200million (It's actually £228m), will give head coach Eddie Jones greater access to players, a later deadline for selection, two additional training camps and more rest periods for his Grand Slam winners.

The RFU chief executive Ian Ritchie said: “This is a true partnership focused on making English rugby the best in the world for club and country.”

Good Morning Soul and a happy easter to you

Soul Requiem wrote:The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that the RFU had an influence on his school scholarship not the other way round.

I just haven't got a clue what you are trying to say, I'm sure you are trying to to come from a higher ground. Firstly this is not a civil case but a forum, secondly BOP suggests that a party proves its allegations with evidence which in this case

Bristol spotting some up and coming kids and persuading them to move locally has diddlysquat to do with England and the RFU.

But this is meandering from the original statement that players like CJ Stander is nothing but a mercenary and nothing like the Tuilagi and Vinupolas, which I disagreed with.

flyhalffactory wrote:Morning and a happy easter 7.5

"Nope. You're just wrong on that one. The RFU really have no say with clubs and the PRL"

I don't know what you mean by that. What am I wrong about?

England’s aim of becoming the dominant force in the global game has been strengthened by a new agreement signed by the Rugby Football Union and Premiership Rugby Limited.

The eight-year partnership between Twickenham and the Premiership clubs, worth over £200million (It's actually £228m), will give head coach Eddie Jones greater access to players, a later deadline for selection, two additional training camps and more rest periods for his Grand Slam winners.

The RFU chief executive Ian Ritchie said: “This is a true partnership focused on making English rugby the best in the world for club and country.”

Sorry if I've misunderstood you but I thought you were claiming the rfu had any influence whatsoever on clubs signing players. They don't. They had no hidden influence in making the vunipolas move to England either.

You didn't misunderstand me mate, RFU have invested £228m into Premiership Rugby, they have influence, might not be direct or official but they have influence.

I am claiming the Vinupolas could not have got their two boys into Millfield or Harrow on their own, Bristol certainly didn't have enough clout on their own at the time.  

You say they don't and they didn't have any indirect influence on the Vinupolas move to Bristol.

OK....How did you think Mako got into Millfield? (the Vinupolas certainly couldn't afford the term fees) furthermore how could they afford to send Billy a few years to Harrow on top of sending Mako to Millfield?. I guarantee you if the Vinupolas could have afforded to send them to the top schools available when they were in Pontypool they would have stayed in Pontypool. The mother was finding it difficult to get into the ministry in Gwent/Cardiff, suddenly an opportunity out of the blue arrived in Bristol for a Tongan female to enter the ministry. Something not working here....unless they won the lottery and had divine intervention). They didn't want to leave Wales, it's well documented that their parents wanted them to play for Wales.

Anyway we'll flog this to death and the mods will be kicking us

So let's agree to disagree

FH - I think you are a few years out on your timings on Tuilagi

Yes I know this is wikipedia but what it says is this

He moved to the UK to join his brothers, and began playing youth rugby in 2004 with Rumney RFC while living in Cardiff, when his brother Freddie was playing for the Cardiff Blues. Aged 15, he moved back to Leicester, joining the Leicester Tigers academy.

It would be good to get more clarity from one of the Leicester fans, but it does seem clear he was here before the age of 15.

flyhalffactory wrote:You didn't misunderstand me mate, RFU have invested £228m into Premiership Rugby, they have influence, might not be direct or official but they have influence.

I am claiming the Vinupolas could not have got their two boys into Millfield or Harrow on their own, Bristol certainly didn't have enough clout on their own at the time.  

You say they don't and they didn't have any indirect influence on the Vinupolas move to Bristol.

OK....How did you think Mako got into Millfield? (the Vinupolas certainly couldn't afford the term fees) furthermore how could they afford to send Billy a few years to Harrow on top of sending Mako to Millfield?. I guarantee you if the Vinupolas could have afforded to send them to the top schools available when they were in Pontypool they would have stayed in Pontypool. The mother was finding it difficult to get into the ministry in Gwent/Cardiff, suddenly an opportunity out of the blue arrived in Bristol for a Tongan female to enter the ministry. Something not working here....unless they won the lottery and had divine intervention). They didn't want to leave Wales, it's well documented that their parents wanted them to play for Wales.

Anyway we'll flog this to death and the mods will be kicking us

So let's agree to disagree

Well no. You're just wrong here.

Scholarships can be offered purely on sporting prowess alone. The top schools want to be the best at sport to attract more investment, more fee payers, etc. So they offer scholarships (I.e. waive the fees) to top sports people with the potential to make the school top for sport, and take people from all sorts of backgrounds including those without the means to pay. It doesn’t necessarily need the influence of a union or pro club. It can do, but doesn’t have to. So it’s possible Millfield could offer a scholarship based purely on seeing a player’s potential and offering a place. I imagine they set aside a number of scholarships each year as part of their budget.

lostinwales wrote:FH - I think you are a few years out on your timings on Tuilagi

Yes I know this is wikipedia but what it says is this

He moved to the UK to join his brothers, and began playing youth rugby in 2004 with Rumney RFC while living in Cardiff, when his brother Freddie was playing for the Cardiff Blues. Aged 15, he moved back to Leicester, joining the Leicester Tigers academy.

It would be good to get more clarity from one of the Leicester fans, but it does seem clear he was here before the age of 15.

Hey mate

Yes its not the most accurate but then I have looked at about 10 sites and they range from 12 to 15. Mostly they say The England centre, who was born in Fogapoa and came to the UK at the age of 13. I have a couple of directors working for me who are Leicester nuts who both argue differently! one say he arrived earlier than 15 more like 12/13 but he went to Cardiff area then came back to Leicester at 16, the other says he originally came to the Midlands for weeks then went to Wales but didn't come back to Leicester until after 15. The fact is he didn't play senior rugby for Leicester until 09/2010

I would be great if our Tigers fans can clarify it

Have a great easter

flyhalffactory wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Both are classic examples of English rugby using their influence with their links to private schooling to persuade parents "to come across the waters" for better opportunities

Fly, again I think you're getting a bit mixed up here.

Bristol spotting some up and coming kids and persuading them to move locally has diddlysquat to do with England and the RFU.

The clubs work completely independently on the their recruitment.

Morning Sgt and a Happy Easter
Again I beg to differ compardre. To get a anyone in Millfield is pretty hard going (JPR's parents would have vouched for that) and extremely expensive (I think even a senior day is about £12k), a bursary to Harrow even more so. I'm happy for you to prove that Bristol rugby connections managed to get Mako in without "higher" influences and even more so Billy in Harrow, it'll be a futile exercise I assure you but enlightening. I had a flatmate who was in Imperial with me (many centuries ago ) a clever guy who studied medicine, he couldn't get into Millfield.

All clubs have different recruitment models but say that they don't pick the phone up for a "bit of help from higher up the food chain" is naive to say the least. I guarantee you it happens more than you realise

This is not exclusive to England RFU, I'll absolutely guarantee you Edinburgh have done it in the past asking for a little help from above    

Happy Easter to you Fly.

Again, I'm confused.

The RFU would not fund Bristol so they could give money to the parents of a schoolboy, it's just not ethical or in any way true. It's you that's throwing around these statements so again I find it strange that you're asking me to provide proof.

The RFU didn't pay for the Vunipola's schooling, this is fact. You will find no evidence to suggest otherwise. They would be uproar amongst the clubs in England if this happened.

As far as I'm aware (no digging), Billy got a scholorship from Harrow and joined the Wasps academy, he was never with Bristol. The clubs are independent entities, the RFU does not get involved directly in recruitment.

Guardian article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2016/nov/16/tonga-twickenham-billy-mako-vunipola-england-saracens

The moved to Bristol due to a job opportunity in the church, it doesn't mention anything about Bristol bringing them in.

Mod hat on.....I think you need to be careful of these accusations as its opening up a real can of worms and it would appear you have no evidence

The RFU would not fund Bristol so they could give money to the parents of a schoolboy, it's just not ethical or in any way true. It's you that's throwing around these statements so again I find it strange that you're asking me to provide proof.

Sgt,
Firstly there are no accusations, secondly I'm not throwing statements around. I originally replied to a poster who stated that Vinupolas/Tuilagi were totally schooled and played rugby in England (this was in reply to another poster who stated that all nations scouted for talent and brought up the Vinupola/Tuilagi as an example to which the poster replied that Mako/Billy and Manu weren't the same as e.g. Stander), I simply said that wasn't the case etc.
I'm not suggesting you supply proof but you stated that RFU have no influence whatsoever "diddlysquat" I'm suggesting that's not the case but if you know for certain then by all means tell us, I never said that the RFU paid anything, I am suggesting that Bristol on their own didn't have the clout to get Mako into Millfield or Billy into Harrow, indeed both got in on a "sports" and fees to an extent are waived/reduced but not to that extent. The Vinupolas (well documented) didn't want to leave Wales, the mother certainly would have only left if the main priority "education for their sons was met", Millfield School in Street is not the easiest to get into at all, even if you have exceptional sporting (or academic) prowess, as for Harrow I'm not sure but I would have said it's just as hard to get in.

flyhalffactory wrote:The RFU would not fund Bristol so they could give money to the parents of a schoolboy, it's just not ethical or in any way true. It's you that's throwing around these statements so again I find it strange that you're asking me to provide proof.

Sgt,
Firstly there are no accusations, secondly I'm not throwing statements around. I originally replied to a poster who stated that Vinupolas/Tuilagi were totally schooled and played rugby in England (this was in reply to another poster who stated that all nations scouted for talent and brought up the Vinupola/Tuilagi as an example to which the poster replied that Mako/Billy and Manu weren't the same as e.g. Stander), I simply said that wasn't the case etc.
I'm not suggesting you supply proof but you stated that RFU have no influence whatsoever "diddlysquat" I'm suggesting that's not the case but if you know for certain then by all means tell us, I never said that the RFU paid anything, I am suggesting that Bristol on their own didn't have the clout to get Mako into Millfield or Billy into Harrow, indeed both got in on a "sports" and fees to an extent are waived/reduced but not to that extent. The Vinupolas (well documented) didn't want to leave Wales, the mother certainly would have only left if the main priority "education for their sons was met", Millfield School in Street is not the easiest to get into at all, even if you have exceptional sporting (or academic) prowess, as for Harrow I'm not sure but I would have said it's just as hard to get in.

The RFU don't pay anything, that's how it is.

Billy was never at Bristol so unsure why they would pay him to go to Harrow.

As mentioned, Mako won a sports scholarship to Milfield. A quick Google and you can see that Milfield offer scholarships in various sports for exceptional athletes......Mako obviously fitted into this bracket.

flyhalffactory wrote:Good Morning Soul and a happy easter to you

Soul Requiem wrote:The burden of proof is on you to provide evidence that the RFU had an influence on his school scholarship not the other way round.

I just haven't got a clue what you are trying to say, I'm sure you are trying to to come from a higher ground. Firstly this is not a civil case but a forum, secondly BOP suggests that a party proves its allegations with evidence which in this case

Bristol spotting some up and coming kids and persuading them to move locally has diddlysquat to do with England and the RFU.

But this is meandering from the original statement that players like CJ Stander is nothing but a mercenary and nothing like the Tuilagi and Vinupolas, which I disagreed with.

The standard confuse the argument by meandering around any point aimlessly. You made the claim, back it up.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Is it me or do "flyhalffactory" and "Whatahitson" sound very similar in they way they post, both go into lengthy dialogues and make a number of statements that they then cannot when challenged evidence properly.

I suspect that half of the volume of posts (in word numbers) is carried out by them.

There is no truth in that. There were traits in whatahitson's style that seemed all too familiar after his 1st couple of posts. Despite his efforts he's not capable of hiding his style. FHF is completely different.

Holding contrary opinions is not an offence on this site. Pushing those opinions hard is always going to annoy someone.

Yeah, just to back up Flyhalffactory - he is a poster of old who has recently started posting again. A Scottish Scarlets fan, from memory! Always with a good word to say about the Scarlets so I’ve always been happy when he posts

It’s a million miles away from our other friend

I am guessing the general assumption is that the coaches will not be basing selections on the European cup competitions.

Apologies then to flyhalffactory.

Some of the Welsh players just damaged their chances. No match for big physical Saffas.

I think four of the players in the Scarlets team (Williams, Davies, Wyn Jones and Ken Owens) have been mentioned in Lions conversations. It's ever so slightly disingenuous to draw anything Lions related from that game. Unless the aim is to rile up Welsh posters for no real purpose. In which case we'll all be drawn into another round of nauseating bickering. Edinburgh were pumped by Racing; they had Watson, Ritchie and Van Der Merwe playing. Watson was player of the tournament and Van Der Merwe top tryscorer. None of them have become bad players overnight.

Ok so ‘current’ form doesn’t account for anything if your Welsh or Scottish.

Welsh and Scottish players are cancelling their trips to SA (if it goes ahead). This really is the latest form that coaches should be considering. Anyway, it’s Gats, so bed luck Watson and that SA bloke.

I’ll take international form vs piddly club rugby any day

It’s been a weird season all round, Oracle. Its difficult to tell how seriously sides are taking both international and club competitions. In a world where you’re only as good as your last game it’s a hard job being a Lions coach.

Cyril wrote:It’s been a weird season all round, Oracle. Its difficult to tell how seriously sides are taking both international and club competitions. In a world where you’re only as good as your last game it’s a hard  job being a Lions coach.

Yes I heard a lot of ‘England can’t be bothered this year’ after some of their 6 Nations losses. I questioned it at the time - either it’s a ‘convenient’ excuse for a loss or it says a lot about their professionalism!

The Oracle wrote:Yeah, just to back up Flyhalffactory - he is a poster of old who has recently started posting again. A Scottish Scarlets fan, from memory! Always with a good word to say about the Scarlets so I’ve always been happy when he posts

It’s a million miles away from our other friend

Your not referring to someone 'ghostly'?

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Ok so ‘current’ form doesn’t account for anything if your Welsh or Scottish.

It seems to be just fans of the team that finished 5th that want to forget international form all of a sudden. Funny that.

doctor_grey wrote:

The Oracle wrote:Yeah, just to back up Flyhalffactory - he is a poster of old who has recently started posting again. A Scottish Scarlets fan, from memory! Always with a good word to say about the Scarlets so I’ve always been happy when he posts

It’s a million miles away from our other friend

Your not referring to someone 'ghostly'?

 

No, no, not at all. Unless that ghostly person is/was the same as someone whose recent name rhymed with ‘not a hit son’? If so, I was not aware they were the same!

The Oracle wrote:

Cyril wrote:It’s been a weird season all round, Oracle. Its difficult to tell how seriously sides are taking both international and club competitions. In a world where you’re only as good as your last game it’s a hard  job being a Lions coach.

Yes I heard a lot of ‘England can’t be bothered this year’ after some of their 6 Nations losses.  I questioned it at the time - either it’s a ‘convenient’ excuse for a loss or it says a lot about their professionalism!  

Are the Regions & Scottish clubs taking it seriously or just mediocre?

The Oracle wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

The Oracle wrote:Yeah, just to back up Flyhalffactory - he is a poster of old who has recently started posting again. A Scottish Scarlets fan, from memory! Always with a good word to say about the Scarlets so I’ve always been happy when he posts

It’s a million miles away from our other friend

Your not referring to someone 'ghostly'?

 

No, no, not at all. Unless that ghostly person is/was the same as someone whose recent name rhymed with ‘not a hit son’?  If so, I was not aware they were the same!

I am convinced the cat and the ghost are different people. It is just unfortunate that this forum attracted both of them.

Good Morning Campers
Just a quicky (oooh vicar) before brekkie

Its perplexing, disturbing and disappointing that our clubs (Edinburgh & Glasgow) haven't being able to transfer their 6 Nations form to their bread n butter.
Edinburgh with all our National players back cannot ship in 56 pts. I've got a lot of time for Cockers but strewth outside of the 6 Nations this was our most important game and yes we know Racing are a class side but its not acceptable for him to say that Racing 92 are a much better team when only a week ago we saw many of the same players (from both teams) give a much different performance. Ok we played better than the scoreline suggests but still.
The same with Glasgow (to a lesser extent), Scarlets 57 pts shipped at home, Ospreys, Dragons and Cardiff Blues beaten at home.
How can we on one hand, advocate Scottish/Welsh Lions last week and at least assess when we had a weekend of capitulation on the highest club level
I can't fathom it out.....any views Scottish/Welsh fans.

On a side note.....me and the missus are having Eggs Benedict.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

Cyril wrote:It’s been a weird season all round, Oracle. Its difficult to tell how seriously sides are taking both international and club competitions. In a world where you’re only as good as your last game it’s a hard  job being a Lions coach.

Yes I heard a lot of ‘England can’t be bothered this year’ after some of their 6 Nations losses.  I questioned it at the time - either it’s a ‘convenient’ excuse for a loss or it says a lot about their professionalism!  

Are the Regions & Scottish clubs taking it seriously or just mediocre?

I would say that they did take it seriously but are mediocre. I mean, my team the Dragons have always been the joke on these boards and elsewhere but were within a hair of beating Northampton. In fact, we threw it away being 15 points up with 20 to go. What does that say about Northampton! They did well to come back and win in. Dragons need to learn to close a game out. But it wasn’t lack of effort. 5 tries scored takes some effort.

So no, for me the regions are just mediocre. We’re playing in a league with good Irish teams and mediocre Scottish teams (currently), poor-mediocre Italian teams and until recently two poor SA teams. In the Pro14 that means that the Welsh teams can look half decent and sometimes one of them can even finish in the top 4 and that can paper over some cracks. But against European opposition the gulf is laid bare for all to see. It’s impossible to say whether it is down to budget as we’ve had these conversations over the years and people pull out accounts and supposed budgets and financial statements and it’s almost impossible to pull out the squad spend accurately and comparably. But my gut instinct is that the Welsh regions do not have the same squad spend as the English and French teams and therefore they do not have the quality of squad to compete. People rightly mention the Scarlets squad and the internationals on show, but they are our best region and best funded side. Not every player is an international star and the ‘fillers’ I would wager are not as good as the non international ‘fillers’ in a squad such as Sale’s. Sale, for all of their lack of current internationals, have very very good players who would probably be internationals if they were Welsh! When you get down to the Dragons or Blues or Ospreys the number of Welsh internationals in any match day team is even fewer and the ‘fillers’ poorer. Again, it means we’re just mediocre.

I do wonder whether sometimes having lots of internationals from the same side (e.g. Scarlets and Wales) can work against a club side. They’ve been away in a bubble for like 8 weeks immersed in Wales and Pivac’s structures, games plans, etc. and they they come back and are thrown into the Scarlets’ calls, gameplan etc. Not just one or two players but like half the squad. I’m just hypothesising that it might make them a bit rusty. A side like Sale, with perhaps only a handful of players going off to the 6N, can perhaps assimilate those players back into the squad more seamlessly? Maybe? Doesn’t seem to hinder Leinster though so maybe I’m wrong. Who knows.