Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

The best thing about our system is that every single person in the country gets an equal vote under equal circumstances. Unless a National ID card scheme is introduced this will just alienate poorer voters. Just another way to rig the system.

https://news.sky.com/story/executive-committee-of-wakefield-constituency-labour-party-resigns-en-masse-amid-stich-up-selection-row-12611957

Labour in difficulty again. Every member of the Executive Committee of Wakefield's Constituency Labour Party has resigned after the national Labour party imposed their own, non-local, candidates on to the shortlist. This is a direct contradiction of what Starmer said should happen if elected leader of the Labour Party.

They really don't help themselves sometimes.

Another Tory MP arrested for a span of sexual offences, including r***, over a seven year timeframe, concluding a two year police investigation.

There are also 56 MPs who have been referred to the ICGS over 70 separate complaints, some concerning sexual misconduct.

What a delightful standard of Parliamentarians we have.

Im no expert so maybe theres information Im not privy to, but surely if one person gets fined for being at an illegal party everyone who was at the party should be fined?

ITVnews have obtained a picture of Johnson drinking during a lockdown party in November 2020. Hard for him to argue that this wasnt a party as its blatantly Frak obvious it was. Theres no doubt now he had to have lied to Parliament.

Also raises further questions about how the Met decided this wasnt a breach of law or worthy of an FPN.

With the Sue Grey report due to be released this week its almost High Noon for ol’ Alexander.

Boris isn't resigning. It's just becomes a question if they get walloped in the Tiverton and Wakefield by-elections - is that enough to focus Tory MP minds? And whether anyone is brave enough to take on the poisoned chalice of the cost of living crisis that is only going to get worse this winter.

It would be objectively funny if Boris was forced out because of the result of votes on June 23rd.

If enough Tory MPs could see that what's good for Boris Johnson is no longer good for them, then we might get somewhere. But they still don't seem to get it.

This would be a scandal around a former prime minister if they'd acted sooner. Instead, they've chosen to allow the whole party to be tainted by it. Even if they move against him now, the damage is done.

Samo wrote:ITVnews have obtained a picture of Johnson drinking during a lockdown party in November 2020. Hard for him to argue that this wasnt a party as its blatantly Frak obvious it was. Theres no doubt now he had to have lied to Parliament.

Also raises further questions about how the Met decided this wasnt a breach of law or worthy of an FPN.

With the Sue Grey report due to be released this week its almost High Noon for ol’ Alexander.

Because to the letter of the law (rather than it's spirit or intention), this was Boris's place of work and the event happened as part of work* (even if the definition of essential work is being stretched to the outermost edges of credibility). Of course it also shows that there is a big issue with the drinking culture within number 10, and also that, unlike virtually every other workplace in the UK, they were not taking their responsibility for workers health and safety seriously with regards to following their own guidance on control of the spread of Coronavirus.

* In this particular case, I wonder if the people fined were those who did not have a legitimate work reason for being in the building at the time of the event?

By comparison, Starmer's beergate is a big fat nothing - a group of people necessarily working away and needing feeding and watering. The pictures from that suggest social distancing rules were being followed at least to some extent.

Must be nice knowing you can do whatever you like, lie with impunity about doing it and never face any consequences for doing so. The clown isn't credible, isn't competent and really none of the opposition should even bother turning up for the latest apology

Its all so bloody predictable.

I've learnt today that 'taking responsibility' is just the act of saying you take responsibility. I thought there was more to it than that, but apparently not!

As Prime Minister, Boris Johnson should...

Resign: 59%; Remain: 30%

via @YouGov

Tories odds-on to lose in Tiverton which would be highly damaging and could be the end of Johnson. The loss in Wakefield should be a formality and shouldn't do much harm, unless the Tories get completely routed.

But Labour's lead is still only single digits as the ineffective Starmer struggles to make an impression on the fine, upstanding British electorate. It may not be the worse thing for Labour if Starmer ends up resigning over the summer.

A fortnight long hit piece by one of the more popular newspapers in the country had an effect on the populations perception? Unthinkable.

Samo wrote:A fortnight long hit piece by one of the more popular untruthful newspapers in the country had an effect on the populations perception?  Unthinkable.

Fixed for you

https://twitter.com/pippacrerar/status/1530174807316348928?s=12

Completely normal, nothing to be concerned by.

Any of the usual types want to have a go at why this is a great idea? Isn't the blonde spaffer currently under investigation for breaking said code

And people will still claim you're "overreacting" when you say this government are acting like fascists.

The ministerial code is pointless as it has no legal standing and never has had (as far as I'm aware). The Prime Minister is, and always has been, the arbiter of the ministerial code so he can do as he pleases with regards to it. He can remove anyone from the cabinet if they break the ministerial code, or if they don't break it. He also doesn't have to remove someone from the cabinet even if they do break the ministerial code.

So it's pointless unless it becomes legally sanctified.

Samo wrote:And people will still claim you're "overreacting" when you say this government are acting like fascists.

Still doesn't understand what a fascist actually is.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:And people will still claim you're "overreacting" when you say this government are acting like fascists.

Still doesn't understand what a fascist actually is.

Control of the media - check. 
Powerful and continuing nationalism - check
Disdain for human rights - check. 
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause - check. 
Obsession with national security - check. 
Corporate power increased while worker power supressed - check. 
Rampant cronyism and corruption - check. 
Clamping down on the right to protest - check. 

That enough for you? Fascism doesnt start with gas chambers or brown shirts.

Control of the media - no. As far as I'm aware the media still has free choice if it wishes to criticise the government.
Powerful nationalism - no. This country isn't remotely nationalistic (in the actual sense of the word, I know some lunatics were comparing flying the union flag to Nazi Germany).
Disdain for human rights - no.
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause - nope. Unless you mean Russia?
Obsession with national security - I hope they would be obsessed, it's part of the government's role.
Corporate power increased - no.
Worker power suppressed - no (huge strikes coming up soon).
Corruption - yes. Not unique to fascism, however.
Clamping down on the right to protest - also no.

I don't like this Tory government, but to claim they're even remotely fascistic shows a complete misunderstanding of what fascism is.

Control of the media - Nadine Dorries powering through with her plan to privatise Channel 4 for seemingly no real reason other than they criticise the government.

Powerful and continuing nationalism - Brexit was built on nationalism, and to this day we have cabinet ministers trying to escape scrutiny because they “love this country”

Disdain for human rights - “My names Dominic Raab, and Im a Tory. I dont support the Human Rights Act.”

Identification of enemies as a unifying cause - Asylum seekers in dinghies ring any bells?

Obsession with national security - see above. Also Brexit was sold on the idea of controlling immigration.

Corporate power increased while worker power supressed - allowing companies to dump waste and sewage into rivers while Grant Shapps talks about forcing a “guaranteed level of service” for buses, trains etc. 

Rampant cronyism and corruption - the entire PPE fiasco. 

Clamping down on the right to protest - The policing bill has put great restrictions on protesting - you can recieve a fine of up to £2500 for being too loud for Frak sake.

These are clear warning signs, and it needs to be taken seriously.

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:And people will still claim you're "overreacting" when you say this government are acting like fascists.

Still doesn't understand what a fascist actually is.

Control of the media - check. 
Powerful and continuing nationalism - check
Disdain for human rights - check. 
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause - check. 
Obsession with national security - check. 
Corporate power increased while worker power supressed - check. 
Rampant cronyism and corruption - check. 
Clamping down on the right to protest - check. 

That enough for you? Fascism doesnt start with gas chambers or brown shirts.

Oh look Samo just googled fascism and came up with this nonsense. The UK government are right wing that does not equate to fascism and is frankly insulting to all those who felt full force of its evil

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:And people will still claim you're "overreacting" when you say this government are acting like fascists.

Still doesn't understand what a fascist actually is.

Control of the media - check. 
Powerful and continuing nationalism - check
Disdain for human rights - check. 
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause - check. 
Obsession with national security - check. 
Corporate power increased while worker power supressed - check. 
Rampant cronyism and corruption - check. 
Clamping down on the right to protest - check. 

That enough for you? Fascism doesnt start with gas chambers or brown shirts.

Oh look Samo just googled fascism and came up with this nonsense. The UK government are right wing that does not equate to fascism and is frankly insulting to all those who felt full force of its evil

Did you just ignore my post were I went through point by point giving examples? Not like you.

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Samo wrote:And people will still claim you're "overreacting" when you say this government are acting like fascists.

Still doesn't understand what a fascist actually is.

Control of the media - check. 
Powerful and continuing nationalism - check
Disdain for human rights - check. 
Identification of enemies as a unifying cause - check. 
Obsession with national security - check. 
Corporate power increased while worker power supressed - check. 
Rampant cronyism and corruption - check. 
Clamping down on the right to protest - check. 

That enough for you? Fascism doesnt start with gas chambers or brown shirts.

Oh look Samo just googled fascism and came up with this nonsense. The UK government are right wing that does not equate to fascism and is frankly insulting to all those who felt full force of its evil

Did you just ignore my post were I went through point by point giving examples?  Not like you.

I stopped reading after your first point, the UK ranks very highly for press freedom. All that anti government (rightly so) information that is readily available but yes fascism.

Give it a rest slurpy, Boris must have a dirty boot that needs your attention

Samo wrote:Control of the media - Nadine Dorries powering through with her plan to privatise Channel 4 for seemingly no real reason other than they criticise the government.

Powerful and continuing nationalism - Brexit was built on nationalism, and to this day we have cabinet ministers trying to escape scrutiny because they “love this country”

Disdain for human rights - “My names Dominic Raab, and Im a Tory. I dont support the Human Rights Act.”

Identification of enemies as a unifying cause - Asylum seekers in dinghies ring any bells?

Obsession with national security - see above. Also Brexit was sold on the idea of controlling immigration.

Corporate power increased while worker power supressed - allowing companies to dump waste and sewage into rivers while Grant Shapps talks about forcing a “guaranteed level of service” for buses, trains etc. 

Rampant cronyism and corruption - the entire PPE fiasco. 

Clamping down on the right to protest - The policing bill has put great restrictions on protesting - you can recieve a fine of up to £2500 for being too loud for Frak sake.

These are clear warning signs, and it needs to be taken seriously.

Control of the media - Privatising Channel 4 is literally taking it out of state ownership, the opposite of government control. There is no control of media; media companies are allowed to be as critical of the government as they like without fear of state censorship, otherwise the Guardian and the Mirror would have been closed down years ago.

Powerful nationalism - Wanting to be in charge of your own affairs is the normal state of being. I'm unclear as to what your second point is about, but liking your country is also normal, it is not fascistic. Powerful nationalism would involve building up the armed forces and the police force as a minimum, this hasn't happened.

Disdain for Human Rights - The Human Rights Act does not do anything additional to protect your human rights. Our human rights were enshrined before that. The Human Rights Act was just about bringing us closer to the ECHR in the Blair years. You've also conveniently missed out that Raab wants to replace the Human Rights Act with a new Bill of Rights.

Identification of enemies - You mean the ones who are being let in?

Obsession with National Security - Not a bad thing. Not a fascistic thing. Most countries in the world, left-wing and right-wing, control their immigration levels. It is normal to be concerned about national security, it is literally one of the main roles of government, especially for a country that is under threat of far-right (genuine far-right by the way) and Islamic terrorism.

Corporate Power increased - You're talking about an amendment to a bill that was voted down. Companies have always been allowed to dump waste water in certain circumstances. This is not an example of corporate power increasing. Quite the opposite, actually, with corporation tax increasing. I'm not sure that wanting the buses and trains to run on time is an example of fascistic tyranny.

Rampant Cronyism - I agree, but this doesn't equal fascism in of itself. Governments of any part of the spectrum can be corrupt.

Protest - I disagree with this bill, but it hasn't put great restrictions on protesting (overblown tabloid nonsense to suggest this). The noise limits only relate to intimidation and harassment.

None of these examples show a clear warning sign of fascism. And neither is the already mentioned Ministerial Code.

You've also missed out the other common points about fascistic government, presumably because they're not happening. They are:

Sexism - Obviously not.
Homophobia - Nope.
Fraudulent elections - Nope, still a liberal democracy.
Religion and government interwined - Not even close.
Supremacy of the military - Probably the opposite.

Fair play, you must love a cult, if you’re still a Tory supporter. Or otherwise probably really rich. The latter I guess. Actually, you might actually be a Tory MP.

Pant sniffers.

Like I’ve already said - fascism doesnt start with the extreme. It doesnt just appear overnight. Its a slow, creeping ideology that chips away with whatever it can get away with until its too late. 

Im not surprised at who it is that disagrees. Says more about them really.

Edit: Its also worth nothing that I didnt once claim the Tories were fascists, merely they were acting like fascists.  But like always as soon as you mention the F word it sends the usual suspects into a frothing great frenzy of denial.

Samo wrote:Like I’ve already said - fascism doesnt start with the extreme. It doesnt just appear overnight. Its a slow, creeping ideology that chips away with whatever it can get away with until its too late. 

Im not surprised at who it is that disagrees. Says more about them really.

Edit: Its also worth nothing that I didnt once claim the Tories were fascists, merely they were acting like fascists.  But like always as soon as you mention the F word it sends the usual suspects into a frothing great frenzy of denial.

It says everything about me that I understand what fascism actually is.

It's also rarely a slow process, actual fascist states come about very quickly, there has been zero silencing of either the media or political adversaries. Ergo not acting like fascists, the UK has very little state interference something people moan about a lot.

You can play to the galleries on here all you want, it isn't strengthening your argument. I am no longer a great fan of this government nor is Duty, nor is there any frothing great frenzy of denial. If you post something factually inaccurate expect it to be challenged or ironically like a fascist would do you think your opinion is final?

Only took you two years to "no longer be a fan", maybe in another two years you'll spot the signs of fascism too.

Samo wrote:Like I’ve already said - fascism doesnt start with the extreme. It doesnt just appear overnight. Its a slow, creeping ideology that chips away with whatever it can get away with until its too late. 

Im not surprised at who it is that disagrees. Says more about them really.

Edit: Its also worth nothing that I didnt once claim the Tories were fascists, merely they were acting like fascists.  But like always as soon as you mention the F word it sends the usual suspects into a frothing great frenzy of denial.

And as shown when you look at the evidence, the Tories aren't acting like fascists.

I disagree that they are because 1) I understand what they are doing and 2) I understand what fascism is (and loathe fascism, like I loathe all authoritarian ideologies) and you evidently don't understand it, otherwise you wouldn't be making strange claims that privatising Channel 4 and Shapps wanting to have a guaranteed service level for public transport are clear warning signs of fascism.

I know in the past you've supported political violence against people you disagree with, so ironically enough you're probably closer to fascism than the Tories are.

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:Like I’ve already said - fascism doesnt start with the extreme. It doesnt just appear overnight. Its a slow, creeping ideology that chips away with whatever it can get away with until its too late. 

Im not surprised at who it is that disagrees. Says more about them really.

Edit: Its also worth nothing that I didnt once claim the Tories were fascists, merely they were acting like fascists.  But like always as soon as you mention the F word it sends the usual suspects into a frothing great frenzy of denial.

And as shown when you look at the evidence, the Tories aren't acting like fascists.

I disagree that they are because 1) I understand what they are doing and 2) I understand what fascism is (and loathe fascism, like I loathe all authoritarian ideologies) and you evidently don't understand it, otherwise you wouldn't be making strange claims that privatising Channel 4 and Shapps wanting to have a guaranteed service level for public transport are clear warning signs of fascism.  

I know in the past you've supported political violence against people you disagree with, so ironically enough you're probably closer to fascism than the Tories are.

Privately owned media companies arent held to the same standards of balance as publicly owned ones, and we all know the Tories have a less than stellar history of selling public services to reputable sources. Theres nothing stopping one of their rich pals buying Channel 4 and turning it into Fox News. Just because the state no longer owns it doesnt mean they dont control it. Look at the Daily Mail for a real world example lf this. “Enemies of the people, Crush the Sabatuers, beergate etc etc. 

A guaranteed level of service is impossible without occasionally having people to work OT. OT should always be optional, but if he wants to guarantee it he’s either going to need to invest in more jobs, or force the people already working to work more - ergo eroding workers rights. 

And yes, I understand tolerance is a paradox, and in order to have a truly tolerant society we cannot tolerate the intolerant, so I dont actually mind the idea of using violence against Nazis. Its a crazy idea but Im pretty sure thats how we won the war. Im not a WWII scholar so I cant say for certain though. 

Oh you got me there. I think its quite funny when bigots like Yaxley-Lennon and Farage get hit with milkshakes. Well guess you’ve got me dead to rights. Thats me a fascist right enough. Checkmate. Done deal. 

I think we’re all mature and educated enough to agree with what the broad definition of fascism is, and if you want to have a philisophical discussion about the finer details then fine, lets do that. But I’ve made my point about why I think this country is slowly sleepwalking its way to fascism. You disagree as is your right. I dont think either of us will be able to change the others minds.

Oh no not vIoLeNcE!!!

Maybe if the likes of Johnson / Mogg / Gove had been given a good old fashioned punch in the face when they were beginning to get the idea that they were better than others at school/university, we'd be in a better place right now

Samo wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

Samo wrote:Like I’ve already said - fascism doesnt start with the extreme. It doesnt just appear overnight. Its a slow, creeping ideology that chips away with whatever it can get away with until its too late. 

Im not surprised at who it is that disagrees. Says more about them really.

Edit: Its also worth nothing that I didnt once claim the Tories were fascists, merely they were acting like fascists.  But like always as soon as you mention the F word it sends the usual suspects into a frothing great frenzy of denial.

And as shown when you look at the evidence, the Tories aren't acting like fascists.

I disagree that they are because 1) I understand what they are doing and 2) I understand what fascism is (and loathe fascism, like I loathe all authoritarian ideologies) and you evidently don't understand it, otherwise you wouldn't be making strange claims that privatising Channel 4 and Shapps wanting to have a guaranteed service level for public transport are clear warning signs of fascism.  

I know in the past you've supported political violence against people you disagree with, so ironically enough you're probably closer to fascism than the Tories are.

Privately owned media companies arent held to the same standards of balance as publicly owned ones, and we all know the Tories have a less than stellar history of selling public services to reputable sources. Theres nothing stopping one of their rich pals buying Channel 4 and turning it into Fox News. Just because the state no longer owns it doesnt mean they dont control it. Look at the Daily Mail for a real world example lf this. “Enemies of the people, Crush the Sabatuers, beergate etc etc. 

A guaranteed level of service is impossible without occasionally having people to work OT. OT should always be optional, but if he wants to guarantee it he’s either going to need to invest in more jobs, or force the people already working to work more - ergo eroding workers rights. 

And yes, I understand tolerance is a paradox, and in order to have a truly tolerant society we cannot tolerate the intolerant, so I dont actually mind the idea of using violence against Nazis. Its a crazy idea but Im pretty sure thats how we won the war. Im not a WWII scholar so I cant say for certain though. 

Oh you got me there. I think its quite funny when bigots like Yaxley-Lennon and Farage get hit with milkshakes. Well guess you’ve got me dead to rights. Thats me a fascist right enough. Checkmate. Done deal. 

I think we’re all mature and educated enough to agree with what the broad definition of fascism is, and if you want to have a philisophical discussion about the finer details then fine, lets do that. But I’ve made my point about why I think this country is slowly sleepwalking its way to fascism. You disagree as is your right. I dont think either of us will be able to change the others minds.

It's worth noting that I didn't once claim you were a fascist, just that you seem to lean that way some of the time.

Using violence against Nazis is just sinking to their level. I want no part of that in a liberal democracy, thank you. If you want to be no better than a Nazi in that regard, then that's your look out. The BNP and National Front and Britain First and other assorted filth can be defeated intellectually and at the ballot box, as they always have been in the confines of our liberal democracy. If we, as a society, start using violence against political extremists, then our liberal democracy is eroded, which is exactly what extremists want.

We also end up in a situation such as we're now in, where MPs from all across the spectrum get death threats and threats of violence, and some MPs get murdered, because of what people such as yourself believe in: that violence is fine in certain circumstances. And I presume, also, that you're not the one who ends up doing the actual violence against these people who you believe are bigoted, but you're happy for others to do so.

Also worth noting that many people who use phraseology like 'punch a nazi' have no actual clue what a nazi is, it's just a phrase for people who they disagree with.

You can't compare it to the war in this regard as that was nation states going to war with one another, not a peaceful, liberal democracy that we currently have.

As to the other points:

Yes, there is something to stop Channel 4 being turned into Fox News. It's called Ofcom. The state cannot control something once they've sold it, if they want to control it they would keep hold of it. They also don't control the Mail, anymore than Labour controls the Mirror.

And that's some reach on the service point, with no evidence to back it up.

The Prime Minister is facing a vote of no confidence. Seems a bit early for that. If the ones who wanted him out waited until after the Wakefield election (where the Tories are set to be trounced), and the one in Tiverton (where it looks like the Tories will lose), then Johnson could have definitely lost it.

As it is, seems like Johnson will survive this one - he's 1/3 to win the vote, 9/4 to lose it. But it should mark the beginning of the end, and a resignation shouldn't be too far around the corner.

Duty281 wrote:The Prime Minister is facing a vote of no confidence. Seems a bit early for that. If the ones who wanted him out waited until after the Wakefield election (where the Tories are set to be trounced), and the one in Tiverton (where it looks like the Tories will lose), then Johnson could have definitely lost it.

As it is, seems like Johnson will survive this one - he's 1/3 to win the vote, 9/4 to lose it. But it should mark the beginning of the end, and a resignation shouldn't be too far around the corner.

Normally would agree about the resignation. But this is Boris, so really wouldn't be suprised if he's still there at the end of the year.

Thought the BBC's coverage of the boos was funny, trying to make out there were some cheers there.

Any predictions? I’ll go 145 rebels. Boris won’t resign, but if they get smashed in the two by elections I suspect he’ll be threatened with the 1922 changing the rules to allow another vote, like they did with May and it might force his hand.

Rumours are that Johnson is threatening a snap general if it doesnt land his way. Seems like a “If I’m going down I’m taking you all with me” kinda move. Most polls indicate they would get hammered in a general.

About 100 rebels.
Agree he won't resign, but each thing that goes wrong there will be more pressure applied to him in the commons. Which will lead to a leadership challenge.

Problem is who else is there, the whole cabinet has been tainted since he's been in power. Not only by partygate and there tv apperances. But also by there own scandels. This might be enough to keep him in power.

Jeremy Hunt is definitely 1 who's voting against him.

145 would be a lot, about 40% of Tory MPs and (as a percentage) a little more than voted against May.

I think it'll be in the lower 100s, but SkyBet give a 15/8 chance that it'll be 150-199. If Johnson even gives a hint he'll go for a snap GE, the Tories will change their rules swiftly and have him out before that happens.

Hunt is positioning himself for a leadership challenge, as is Truss (she's been positioning for a while). It won't happen, but the best thing for the Tories would be to take their new leader from the obscurity of the backbenches, rather than a well-known cabinet minister.

I would like Johnson to lose the vote, but the only way that happens is if whatever he's said tonight to Tory MPs backfires massively, and it seems it hasn't.

Samo wrote:Rumours are that Johnson is threatening a snap general if it doesnt land his way. Seems like a “If I’m going down I’m taking you all with me” kinda move. Most polls indicate they would get hammered in a general.

If Johnson goes (And that is a very big if). Then calling a general election this year wouldn't be a bad play by the Tories.

They can play on the mess that Johnson has made and how they need time to clear it up. Plus throw in a few give aways to the public.
Keir Stamer is not impressing, and seems to be going with well at least we're not the Tories.
The chances that it's a hung parliament i would say is high. And if that happens anything can happen as 2010 showed.

Ouch. 148 against. Tick tock, Johnson.

148 is way more than expected.

JDizzle wrote:Any predictions? I’ll go 145 rebels. Boris won’t resign, but if they get smashed in the two by elections I suspect he’ll be threatened with the 1922 changing the rules to allow another vote, like they did with May and it might force his hand.

3 out. I will strive to be better.

Worse than May isn't it?

Worse than May, indeed. Ministers will be telling Johnson his time is up. A resignation shouldn't be too far away. The game's up. The two by-election defeats will be the final push, if needed.

Duty281 wrote:Worse than May, indeed. Ministers will be telling Johnson his time is up. A resignation shouldn't be too far away. The game's up. The two by-election defeats will be the final push, if needed.

Problem is, This is a guy who lies to the house regularly, and to the public. And has other things that should have resulted in him resigning. So i think he'll just fight to keep his job and won't even think of resigning. He will probably see this as a win, and that's all he'll care about not how many voted against him.

I do agree with the point you made earlier about the strange timing of this (probably because of the reaction at the jubilee).
The cost of living is only going to get worse, the on going brexit issiues, probably more partygate stuff etc. Not just the next 2 by elections but next year as well, and they can't have another vote of no confidence for at least a year.

The year to another vote doesn't mean anything, they can change it whenever they feel like it, I think May got threatened with it when she was sticking it out

GSC wrote:The year to another vote doesn't mean anything, they can change it whenever they feel like it, I think May got threatened with it when she was sticking it out

Fair enough, i was just going on what I'd read.

Rory Stewart made the point that if you take away the “payroll” votes (cabinet members and minister who more than likely voted Yes) then you’re left with 75% of his backbenchers who voted No. Thats a damning number, and will probably be a fatal one. Defeat in the upcoming by-elections could be the final nails in the coffin.