Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

Should we be there?

Well if you dont mind whats happening now and support sharia law then I guess not.

[beninho]

But, anyway, abuse against women isn't really much and not that widespread. Super Realist from the inner says so. That well known violence against women campaigner.

We were talkiing about the murder of women given that we were referencing that murder in SE. London.
How are you any more of an expert? Just because you disagree with me, doesnt mean you know any more about it. So instead of having a go at me, realise that you dont come from a position of authority either.

You responded to a message about abuse of women claiming it isn't that widespread. I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't think about downplaying abuse if women, as you just did. Now I'm sure you have your reasons, so what are they?

You only respond to posts you have a vested interest in? Start a bloody housing post then.
I was referring to murder against women. Something which is absolutely tiny .

You responded to sonethibgbthat said abuse against women. Then downplayed it. Maybe, you can state that you don't thinkabuse against is not that widespread, or maybe you do think it's nothing to worry about.

[beninho]

You have a daughter I presume?

I do. She's 3.

It becomes a slightly more emotive subject when you have a vested interest, something S_R doesn't have.

Maybe it's just me, who doesn't think any abuse shoukd be downplated, whether you have kids or not.

[beninho]

But, anyway, abuse against women isn't really much and not that widespread. Super Realist from the inner says so. That well known violence against women campaigner.

We were talkiing about the murder of women given that we were referencing that murder in SE. London.
How are you any more of an expert? Just because you disagree with me, doesnt mean you know any more about it. So instead of having a go at me, realise that you dont come from a position of authority either.

You responded to a message about abuse of women claiming it isn't that widespread. I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't think about downplaying abuse if women, as you just did. Now I'm sure you have your reasons, so what are they?

You have a daughter I presume?

I do. She's 3.

Has she been murdered or abused? No, so you've still not get any more to go on than i do

What are you rambling on about?

[Soul Requiem]

The discussion was about abuse against women, the trigger for that discussion was the murder of Sabina Nessa.

[super_realist]

The discussion was about abuse against women, the trigger for that discussion was the murder of Sabina Nessa.

And what is it youd like to claim about abuse against women?

[beninho]

Any reasonable person woukd generally say, abuse against women, in any form is abhorrent.

Super_realist woukd say, come on, it's not widespread.

[super_realist]

Any reasonable person woukd generally say, abuse against women, in any form is abhorrent.

Super_realist woukd say, come on, it's not widespread.

I didnt claim otherwise. Of course it is, its a stupid and pointless statement to make, like offering "thoughts and prayers"
Its tje Andy Townsend school of commentary.

[McLaren]

Super

You are confused. Abuse (mental/physical) against women is extremely common.

[super_realist]

Super

You are confused. Abuse (mental/physical) against women is extremely common.

I was referring to murder.
Are you admitting to wife beating?

[McLaren]

Super

Why is there always a point in a thread where it has been clear for some time what people are talking about, you end up being wrong, and then claim to be talking about an adjacent or more specific point. In any case, the person most likely to murder a woman is their partner or close relative.

Does whether or not I wife beat have anything to do with the wider picture?

[JuliusHMarx]

Is it home time yet?

[beninho]

So, when realist responded to something about abuse against women, claiming it was not that widespread, he didn't actually mean it was about abuse against women and only women being murdered?

Bit stupid, but oh well.

[super_realist]

Super

Why is there always a point in a thread where it has been clear for some time what people are talking about, you end up being wrong, and then claim to be talking about an adjacent or more specific point. In any case, the person most likely to murder a woman is their partner or close relative.

Does whether or not I wife beat have anything to do with the wider picture?

Why are you discussing a subject that everyone is in agreement with?

Violence and abuse against women is bad, in other news bears do indeed defecate in the woods and the pope does protect kiddie fiddlers.

You asked why no one was discussing this murder  in Kidbrooke when in fact the media is full of it. So what are you complaining about?

[McLaren]

Super

You are not getting out of this that easily. We all know that what you are saying is that abuse against women isn't a widespread enough issue to bother worrying about. I get that you accept a specific incident is bad but why are you unwilling to acknowledge the level of the issue in society?

[super_realist]

Super

You are not getting out of this that easily. We all know that what you are saying is that abuse against women isn't a widespread enough issue to bother worrying about. I get that you accept a specific incident is bad but why are you unwilling to acknowledge the level of the issue in society?

I did not say that at all.
I said men were far more likely to be a victim of crime and assault than a woman is.
Try actually reading instead of pretending i wrote something else.
That does not mean that violence or abuse against women is insignificant, nor does it even imply it.

[McLaren]

Then just come out and plainly state you think the levels of abuse against women is an issue.

[beninho]

If the government amend immigration rules for hgv drivers, this is surely accepting that the immigration rules are, in part, causing the problem we have?

Surely, this will also mean other sectors pushing for relaxing the rules.

I'm glad we've gone passed blaming people being pinged by the app though for all these shortages.

[super_realist]

The issue with HGV drivers has been around for decades.
The BHA has been stating that we have had shortages since the turn of the century.

Also, Poland have a shortwge of 120,000 HGV drivers too, so what do you think of that?

What we musnt do is conflate immigration by those who clearly shoyld be permitted to come here freely, ie, every EU citizen with illegal economic migrants from outside the EU.

It seeks that if you simply prefer managed immigration, which seems sensible to a free for all from anywhere and by any means, that makes you a bigot and a racist.

Speaking of bigots. What an absolute disgrace Rayner is. I hope Starmer gives her a severe talking to. That sort of language is neither parliamentary or likely to attract people to Labour

[super_realist]

Then just come out and plainly state you think the levels of abuse against women is an issue.

What are the levels of abuse against women Mac? Got any stats?

Why is Sadiq Khan not making it an issue? Why doesnt he make gang violence an jssue, instead he concentrates on things which arent even his remit. Hes been silent on this event.

[beninho]

The issue with HGV drivers has been around for decades.
The BHA has been stating that we have had shortages since the turn of the century.

Also, Poland have a shortwge of 120,000 HGV drivers too, so what do you think of that?

What we musnt do is conflate immigration by those who clearly shoyld be permitted to come here freely, ie, every EU citizen with illegal economic migrants from outside the EU.

It seeks that if you simply prefer managed immigration, which seems sensible to a free for all from anywhere and by any means, that makes you a bigot and a racist.

Speaking of bigots. What an absolute disgrace Rayner is. I hope Starmer gives her a severe talking to. That sort of language is neither parliamentary or likely to attract people to Labour

Lots of country with driver issues. It's not a new problem. But it's an industry propped by European drivers, who we have basically declared persona non grata.

We had a decent immigration system with freedom of movement. Lots of rules and regulations in place. People weren't keen though.

Obviously, I have no issue with what Rayner said, mo worse then johnson saying tanked topped but boys.

[beninho]

Then just come out and plainly state you think the levels of abuse against women is an issue.

What are the levels of abuse against women Mac? Got any stats?

Why is Sadiq Khan not making it an issue? Why doesnt he make gang violence an jssue, instead he concentrates on things which arent even his remit. Hes been silent on this event.

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/sadiq-increases-investment-in-london-gang-exit

[beninho]

Realist, do you think all forms of abuse against women are reported?

[Soul Requiem]

Rayner is the gift that keeps on giving, she alone will cost Labour a couple of points at the next election.

As someone who worked within the logistics industry for 15 years the issues have been known for a while. There's no simple answer and yes the problem was exasperated by Covid last year, 30,000 HGV tests were cancelled, that alone creates a problem. When you have yearly retirement within an industry that isn't replaced how can it not. Doing away with the additional towing tests will help to alleviate that.

Cabotage rather than pure driver numbers is the Brexit issue but I assume all of you highlighting the latter knew that already. As always the argument is more nuanced than European drivers not being welcome.

[beninho]

Brexit is no way near the only issue with the lack of drivers, but it is in the mix. Its probably more an issue on farm workers, poultry workers etc.

I'm sure immigration rules will be amended at some point. Though it will upset some people.

[super_realist]

Brexit is no way near the only issue with the lack of drivers, but it is in the mix. Its probably more an issue on farm workers, poultry workers etc.  

I'm sure immigration rules will be amended at some point. Though it will upset some people.

I dont think anyone is against migratuon which benefits the country. Even Farage isn't.
People are against illegal immigration and government policy which permits and encourages it.

[super_realist]

Then just come out and plainly state you think the levels of abuse against women is an issue.

What are the levels of abuse against women Mac? Got any stats?

Why is Sadiq Khan not making it an issue? Why doesnt he make gang violence an jssue, instead he concentrates on things which arent even his remit. Hes been silent on this event.

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/sadiq-increases-investment-in-london-gang-exit

2 million quid? Thats less than he spends on his own self promotion.
He was recently asked about his prirorities as mayor, and he didnt even mention gangs or knife crime or assaults on women.
He mentioned things that werent even part of a mayors remit like "climate change"

[super_realist]

Realist, do you think all forms of abuse against women are reported?

No.

[beninho]

Then just come out and plainly state you think the levels of abuse against women is an issue.

What are the levels of abuse against women Mac? Got any stats?

Why is Sadiq Khan not making it an issue? Why doesnt he make gang violence an jssue, instead he concentrates on things which arent even his remit. Hes been silent on this event.

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/sadiq-increases-investment-in-london-gang-exit

2 million quid? Thats less than he spends on his own self promotion.
He was recently asked about his prirorities as mayor, and he didnt even mention gangs or knife crime or assaults on women.
He mentioned  things that werent even part of a mayors remit like "climate change"

Surely knife crime is the remit of tge police, same with assault? The mayor of London doesn't hold sway over the police force. And probably does have more sway over things like climate change and tge impact of London businesses.

Though as a London resident, I have no issues with Khan. He's fine.

[beninho]

Realist, do you think all forms of abuse against women are reported?

No.

So asking for stats is pointless? Because there won't be any that are reliable.

[beninho]

Anyway, this should also put your mind at rest over the priorities of the Mayor's office.

https://www.london.gov.uk/what-we-do/mayors-office-policing-and-crime-mopac/our-priorities

[super_realist]

Realist, do you think all forms of abuse against women are reported?

No.

So asking for stats is pointless? Because there won't be any that are reliable.

So how do you know if there is an escalating problem, or even a problem at all? (there probbaly is a problem, but without data, how do you know?)

[super_realist]

Then just come out and plainly state you think the levels of abuse against women is an issue.

What are the levels of abuse against women Mac? Got any stats?

Why is Sadiq Khan not making it an issue? Why doesnt he make gang violence an jssue, instead he concentrates on things which arent even his remit. Hes been silent on this event.

https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/sadiq-increases-investment-in-london-gang-exit

2 million quid? Thats less than he spends on his own self promotion.
He was recently asked about his prirorities as mayor, and he didnt even mention gangs or knife crime or assaults on women.
He mentioned  things that werent even part of a mayors remit like "climate change"

Surely knife crime is the remit of tge police, same with assault? The mayor of London doesn't hold sway over the police force.  And probably does have more sway over things like climate change and tge impact of London businesses.

Though as a London resident, I have no issues with Khan. He's fine.

Policing is PART of the Mayors remit, just as transport is, and hes doen a bad job of both those

[beninho]

Realist, do you think all forms of abuse against women are reported?

No.

So asking for stats is pointless? Because there won't be any that are reliable.

So how do you know if there is an escalating problem, or even a problem at all? (there probbaly is a problem, but without data, how do you know?)

I work in a service that deals with victims of Donestic Abuse. I work with Donestic abuse charities and refuges, I can also read news reports. If my tiny speck of the country sees a lot of DA cases, im sure its spread around the country, and these are just known cases. Unfortunately there will be vast numbers out there who just take it, without feeling able to move on. We also now r*** case have increased dramatically in 10 years.

I'd be surprised if anyone with a modicum of common sense couldn't see an issue.

[JAS]

Rayner is the gift that keeps on giving, she alone will cost Labour a couple of points at the next election.

As someone who worked within the logistics industry for 15 years the issues have been known for a while. There's no simple answer and yes the problem was exasperated by Covid last year, 30,000 HGV tests were cancelled, that alone creates a problem. When you have yearly retirement within an industry that isn't replaced how can it not. Doing away with the additional towing tests will help to alleviate that.

Cabotage rather than pure driver numbers is the Brexit issue but I assume all of you highlighting the latter knew that already. As always the argument is more nuanced than European drivers not being welcome.

Sometimes even when you’re right you should have the class and decorum to either shut the f*** up or use different phraseology to articulate your point. I don’t actually disagree with what Raynor said BUT as a Senior Politician there’s a certain responsibility to a) lead by example and b) be disciplined enough to not give other politicians who should be under the cosh a get out of jail free card by creating a needless distraction.
Additionally as a woman climbing the greasy pole and trying to smash glass ceilings, she’s just erected a very thick glass ceiling above herself. It’s a crazy career limiting comment.

[JAS]

Also, sometimes when you have a decent grasp of how events might unfold. You have to find a sound bite that will work, not try to articulate all the nuances surrounding how much difficulty there’s going to be implementing the country’s chosen path. In other words, as things are unfolding it’s becoming abundantly clear that once the phrase “Get Brexit done” was coined and the Tories knew it was a winner, they parroted it ad-Infinitum but didn’t seem to put ANY further meat on the bone of actually dealing with the detail.
I think Labour actually did have a greater awareness of the implications and what it would mean for ordinary people but they abjectly failed to condense that thinking into a simple vote winning message.

[super_realist]

Realist, do you think all forms of abuse against women are reported?

No.

So asking for stats is pointless? Because there won't be any that are reliable.

So how do you know if there is an escalating problem, or even a problem at all? (there probbaly is a problem, but without data, how do you know?)

I work in a service that deals with victims of Donestic Abuse. I work with Donestic abuse charities and refuges, I can also read news reports. If my tiny speck of the country sees a lot of DA cases, im sure its spread around the country, and these are just known cases. Unfortunately there will be vast numbers out there who just take it, without feeling able to move on. We also now r*** case have increased dramatically in 10 years.

I'd be surprised if anyone with a modicum of common sense couldn't see an issue.

You dont know r***cases have increased dramatically, you only knowbthe REPORTING of it has increased.
The conviction rate however is an absolute disgrace

[super_realist]

Labour missing another own goal by imploding at their own conference amd Starmer walking into yet another laughable identity politics debate.
How could an opposition be this bad given how bad the government is?
At least Starmer isnt as annoying as Corbyn, but hes every bit as ineffectual.
£15 minimim wage?

I really wouldnt mind a New Labour term on the centre left, but the moronic far left are making them totally unelectable

[beninho]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283100/recorded-r***-offences-in-england-and-wales/

These are the r*** figures for 10 years. Which shows a dramatic increase in recorded r*** offences. I guess the question for realist is, do you think that the dramatic increase in recorded cases only means more cases are recorded and it just balances out, with 40k un recorded rapes in 2008/9 and every r*** is recorded now?

Personally, I would think its hard to accept a rise in recorded rapes doesn't also signal a rise in non recorded rapes.

Realist trying to play down r*** figures is a new one though.

[beninho]

Realist, you must be in agreement of removing charity status for private schools though?

[Soul Requiem]

You dont know r***cases have increased dramatically, you only knowbthe REPORTING of it has increased.
The conviction rate however is an absolute disgrace

I could be wrong here and it is semantics to some degree but by definition a case has to have been reported otherwise it doesn't exist. R*** cases have increased dramatically, that is a statistical fact, instances of r*** we don't know but can assume based on the former that they have also increased.

[beninho]

You dont know r***cases have increased dramatically, you only knowbthe REPORTING of it has increased.
The conviction rate however is an absolute disgrace

I could be wrong here and it is semantics to some degree but by definition a case has to have been reported otherwise it doesn't exist. R*** cases have increased dramatically, that is a statistical fact, instances of r*** we don't know but can assume based on the former that they have also increased.

It's good to see things similarly from time to time....but not sure if I'll always want it to happen.

[super_realist]

You dont know r***cases have increased dramatically, you only knowbthe REPORTING of it has increased.
The conviction rate however is an absolute disgrace

I could be wrong here and it is semantics to some degree but by definition a case has to have been reported otherwise it doesn't exist. R*** cases have increased dramatically, that is a statistical fact, instances of r*** we don't know but can assume based on the former that they have also increased.

Wrong, r*** reporting has increased dramatically , that doesnt mean it has increased as an act.
I suppose you might argue that legally it was only comparitively recently that r***within marriage was considered a criminal act, but you'd have to be a monster to ever think it wasnt.

[super_realist]

Realist, you must be in agreement of removing charity status for private schools though?

Im indifferent, but i dont think im in favour of removing any benefit related to education, private or public.

I'd much rather see pointless religious institutions stripped of tax free status. Having a fairy tale book club shouldnt be something which has any protection from taxation or be given any special treatment.
I think Labour would get a lot of support if these vile and immoral institutions had to pay their fair share. For example I think the Church of England is one of the largest and wealthiest land owners in Britain, but pays sweet FA in tax. If people want Amazon and Google to pay their fair share then COE and Catholic Church should also pay.

[beninho]

You dont know r***cases have increased dramatically, you only knowbthe REPORTING of it has increased.
The conviction rate however is an absolute disgrace

I could be wrong here and it is semantics to some degree but by definition a case has to have been reported otherwise it doesn't exist. R*** cases have increased dramatically, that is a statistical fact, instances of r*** we don't know but can assume based on the former that they have also increased.

Wrong, r*** reporting  has increased dramatically , that doesnt mean it has increased as an act.
I suppose you might argue that legally it was only comparitively recently that r***within marriage was considered a criminal act, but you'd have to be a monster to ever think it wasnt.

Do you think 10 years or so ago, there were 40k unrecorded rapes?

[JAS]

Labour missing another own goal by imploding at their own conference amd Starmer walking into yet another laughable identity politics debate.
How could an opposition be this bad given how bad the government is?
At least Starmer isnt as annoying as Corbyn, but hes every bit as ineffectual.
£15 minimim wage?

I really wouldnt mind a New Labour term on the centre left, but the moronic far left are making them totally unelectable

Don’t you mean open goal? An own goal is a good thing to miss isn’t it?

Equally your confusion persists into the issue you’re trying to highlight, the reason McDonald resigned is that the leadership outflanked him on the £15 an hour minimum wage. I think there’s a growing desperation to and make Starmer look worse than he actually is by the right wing media and the undisciplined left are helping all they can. McDonald wouldn’t have just came to that conclusion yesterday he would have thought of resigning weeks ago but deliberately chose day one of the conference for maximum publicity.

Sure £15 an hour would be great for low paid workers but it would totally open up the long standing wound that being the perception that Labour are needlessly profligate with peoples money.

[super_realist]

Yea, thanks for the correction.
I dont think the rigjt need to do anything to make Starmer look ineffectual. He is a decent man, but hes dragged down by a militant left element of lunatics.

Like i say, id be happy to have a strong centre left, just as id prefer the right to he centre right. Extremes of either side helps no one.

[super_realist]

You dont know r***cases have increased dramatically, you only knowbthe REPORTING of it has increased.
The conviction rate however is an absolute disgrace

I could be wrong here and it is semantics to some degree but by definition a case has to have been reported otherwise it doesn't exist. R*** cases have increased dramatically, that is a statistical fact, instances of r*** we don't know but can assume based on the former that they have also increased.

Wrong, r*** reporting  has increased dramatically , that doesnt mean it has increased as an act.
I suppose you might argue that legally it was only comparitively recently that r***within marriage was considered a criminal act, but you'd have to be a monster to ever think it wasnt.

Do you think 10 years or so ago, there were 40k unrecorded rapes?

No one knows, thats the point. You claim to know that r*** is on the increase, but dont have any evidence to back it up.
All we hahe is reporting, and its both a lot easier and a lot more of a societal norm to report it thankfully.
Sadly this is not marked by prosecution.

[Soul Requiem]

Equally your confusion persists into the issue you’re trying to highlight, the reason McDonald resigned is that the leadership outflanked him on the £15 an hour minimum wage. I think there’s a growing desperation to and make Starmer look worse than he actually is by the right wing media and the undisciplined left are helping all they can.  McDonald wouldn’t have just came to that conclusion yesterday he would have thought of resigning weeks ago but deliberately chose day one of the conference for maximum publicity.

Sure £15 an hour would be great for low paid workers but it would totally open up the long standing wound that being the perception that Labour are needlessly profligate with peoples money.

Starmer is by no means on Corbyn levels of incompetence but with Brexit and Covid he should be miles ahead in the polls but he isn't.

£15 an hour minimum wage isn't necessarily great for low paid workers, it would likely lead to super inflation and almost certainly lots of people losing their jobs altogether. Companies will have to recoup the extra expenditure of increased wages somehow.

[super_realist]

Equally your confusion persists into the issue you’re trying to highlight, the reason McDonald resigned is that the leadership outflanked him on the £15 an hour minimum wage. I think there’s a growing desperation to and make Starmer look worse than he actually is by the right wing media and the undisciplined left are helping all they can.  McDonald wouldn’t have just came to that conclusion yesterday he would have thought of resigning weeks ago but deliberately chose day one of the conference for maximum publicity.

Sure £15 an hour would be great for low paid workers but it would totally open up the long standing wound that being the perception that Labour are needlessly profligate with peoples money.

Starmer is by no means on Corbyn levels of incompetence but with Brexit and Covid he should be miles ahead in the polls but he isn't.

£15 an hour minimum wage isn't necessarily great for low paid workers, it would likely lead to super inflation and almost certainly lots of people losing their jobs altogether. Companies will have to recoup the extra expenditure of increased wages somehow.

Switzerland have a similarly high minimum wage and it just makes everything more expensive. Doesnt actually solve anything.

[dynamark]

£15 min wage will never happen and labour must be deluded nutters to even suggest it. It is the sort of stupid headline that makes sure anyone with any sense will not vote labour.This party will self destruct .Many housing organisations are charities and avoid tax. I sure I once read that you could travel from Oxford to Cambridge on land entirely owned by the church of england . Im not sure the average school makes a deal of profit thats not really the purpose so it would not raise much cash just another labour bash the rich headline grabber .So much anger from labour figures towards anyone who appears to have done well mostly mispalced.

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