England's Winter of Cricket 2022/23

First topic message reminder :

Of course we have the World T20 covered in a separate thread, but I thought we should have a new one for England's upcoming games this winter, which feature:

Three ODIs in Australia (17th-22nd November)
Three tests in Pakistan (1st-21st December)
Three ODIs in South Africa (27th January-1st February)
Two tests in New Zealand (16th-28th February)
Three ODIs in Bangladesh (March)

Looking forward to the tests, but I think the ODIs will be instantly forgettable!

KP_fan wrote:bet365 lists draw as the most likely scenario...about two and a half times more likely than Eng win....and almost as likely as Eng win

That's no where close to accurate...Eng should be overwhelming favorites to win this unless there is rain forecast that I am not aware of

Wicket is completely lifeless. Taking 20 on this? Good luck.

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:bet365 lists draw as the most likely scenario...about two and a half times more likely than Eng win....and almost as likely as Eng win

That's no where close to accurate...Eng should be overwhelming favorites to win this unless there is rain forecast that I am not aware of

Wicket is completely lifeless. Taking 20 on this? Good luck.

Indeed. Will require a bit of cooperation from the batsmen ...unless the pitch suddenly develops some unlikely demons.

And all due respect to Leach and the apprentices , they aren't exactly Warne Murali and Kumble.

Do like the way Leach has bowled so far though. The main threat , no doubt.

Not altogether sure the Jacks/Leach pairing is ideal. Leach is building some pressure with dots...but it is being easily released at the other end. I'd be inclined to bowl Jimmy in combination with Leach for a bit.

Well this does look like a draw in the making. Strangely, the speed England scored at kept Pakistan in the game, as if they can get near to England's score, they may be in a position to force a win. That's not a criticism of England, who did all they could and more to get the game moving. I'm sure others remember the Stokes/Bairstow match in SA where England ended up hanging on for a draw

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:bet365 lists draw as the most likely scenario...about two and a half times more likely than Eng win....and almost as likely as Eng win

That's no where close to accurate...Eng should be overwhelming favorites to win this unless there is rain forecast that I am not aware of

Wicket is completely lifeless. Taking 20 on this? Good luck.

Probably only going to see 20 in the game because quite a few of the tails got thrown away (and suspect Pakistan may end up in a similar situation). Really hoped they'd have learnt from the criticism the Aussie series pitches received, but seemingly not...in for a few days of grim cricket here

Can't see Pakistan forcing a win . They might well get up around the England score but they don't have the bowling to put England under any serious pressure second time around...unless the pitch were to completely go nuts - in which case they'd be batting last...

I think the odds on a draw are short and getting shorter.

They should just shake hands at the end of day 3 and save everyone the effort

Scoring a bit slower than England...but this opening pair look well placed to at least match the two century efforts of their counterparts.

Not much happening for England's bowlers . Pity Livingstone is crocked but not sure he'd be any more effective.

Never know ...might get a run out eventually...

Messing around taking readings for five minutes but eventually the umpires say too dark and off we go....

Pakistan comfortable at 181/0. Can't say I'm too astonished ... Pitch is a mite on the flat side I think

VTR wrote:Well this does look like a draw in the making. Strangely, the speed England scored at kept Pakistan in the game, as if they can get near to England's score, they may be in a position to force a win. That's not a criticism of England, who did all they could and more to get the game moving. I'm sure others remember the Stokes/Bairstow match in SA where England ended up hanging on for a draw

The only other game I can think of similar is where England had Pakistan hanging on in 2015/16 after Cook’s marathon knock, and 500+ played 500+ in the first innings.

Someone tried to tell me about some game in Adelaide in 2006 too? But they must be mistaken as no game happened then…

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:They should just shake hands at the end of day 3 and save everyone the effort

Might as well shake hands on the 0-0 and save everyone the time!

I hope the ICC come down heavily on Pakistan. This is the 4th dead pitch prepared in a row for test cricket in Pakistan.

Looks like England will be spending the better part of two more days in the field.

Day three continues to enthrall

14 overs so far , forty runs , no wickets , two more centuries...

Probably a good move by Livingstone to get injured so he doesn't have to bowl.

But hark ! Even as I type , Shafiique edges Jacks AND Pope does the rest...A Wicket

Chased a wide ball , in truth...England won't care . 225/1

Azhar in now... Just the man for a crisis

So England actually took three wickets in that (extended) first session. At 298/3 Pakistan is still a long way behind so another wicket or two could possibly induce a few nerves.

Unusual to see the second new ball taken and Leach and Root start with it ! Says something about this pitch...

Hard yakka, eh Alfie? 

I haven't quite given up on a positive result and cling to the hope that one will bring two but readily concede that the draw is the strongest of favourites. We still have over half the match to be played - whether that's a good or a bad thing is probably questionable!

Haven't seen it yet but pleased for Jacks that he has a wicket. One heck of a baptism.

Into the hundredth over of this innings now. England were all out in 101 so Pakistan are clearly outdoing that. Just a little matter of 300 less runs at this point...but it isn't a speed scoring contest.

Babar on 76 and you'd like to have money on his century. England bowlers - especially the spinners - doing a lot of work : even Root into his 13th. Leach and Jacks have bowled 60 between them ; but Stokes is keeping his own powder dry , just sent down three.

Drinks a welcome break. This pair have put on 73 and hopes of a clatter of wickets around that new ball have been extinguished . Ah well - only two more days of this...

guildfordbat wrote:Hard yakka, eh Alfie? 

I haven't quite given up on a positive result and cling to the hope that one will bring two but readily concede that the draw is the strongest of favourites. We still have over half the match to be played - whether that's a good or a bad thing is probably questionable!

Haven't seen it yet but pleased for Jacks that he has a wicket. One heck of a baptism.

Oh hi Guildford...I know you are used to batsman friendly wickets at your local but this is another level

Jacks has found it tough going. Probably didn't expect to bowl this much but with Livingstone down he's been the main man apart from Leach. Into his 25th now and coming up on his hundred but that wicket was welcome ! He actually nearly had Azhar immediately after...a shout for lbw but was missing.

Things can happen in a hurry on these pitches but I fancy it's unlikely we will be seeing too many fireworks on this one : just looks not merely dead but several days buried...

Babar has his hundred , Pakistan their 400... 111 overs down and no sign of rain...

Funny old game...if anyone is still watching ?

Babar throws away his wicket and Rizwan follows in the very next over as Jacks and Anderson both strike...

Was reading some online musings about Pakistan maybe leading by 150 at the end of day four and pressuring England on the last day : not looking so likely now at 480/6.

Wonder if England could snaffle a couple more tonight ?

Batting doesn't look quite so easy now for Naseem Shah and the inexperienced Agha Salman...although Naseem has just emerged from his defensive shell to smite Jack Leach for six ...

Not sure how many more overs we will get in tonight. Stokes is in attack mode with a bunch of close fielders as Leach steps up for his 41st over.

Oh well done , England ! Jacks tempts Naseem into a big hit and very well caught by his spin partner in the deep

That's two Leach has caught for him. Three wickets on debut for Jacks : have cost 132 mind , but he's doing a job

497/7

And day is done at 499/7... Clatter of wickets in this last session and there is at least a spark of life in the match now...reward for Stokes persistent intention to attack.

Draw probably still a strong chance but there is cause to tune in to watch tomorrow ...

alfie wrote:And day is done at 499/7... Clatter of wickets in this last session and there is at least a spark of life in the match now...reward for Stokes persistent intention to attack.

Draw probably still a strong chance but there is cause to tune in to watch tomorrow ...

Hi Alfie - entirely with you there. Watched the last hour on delay tv without knowing what had happened. Good reward in the end for England. Particularly pleased for Jacks. As I posted the other day on the ''England Summer of Cricket 2022'' thread, he's a long way from being the finished version of what we expect an England spinner to be but he's a handy ''balance bringing'' player who, as shown today, doesn't hide and isn't afraid of hard work.

Ward wondered on Sky if Pakistan might just add a few more tomorrow and then declare in the apparent hope that England would fritter away their second dig and allow the hosts to go for a win on the last day. With characteristic politeness, Sangakkara dismissed that notion and was sure Pakistan would simply want to try and bat to lunch and be as near to England's total as possible. Unsurprisingly, I'm fully in Kumar's camp on that. 

Still a small chance of an England win, I think, but things will need to go our way tomorrow to keep the possibility alive.

Two games that started as seemingly one sided on D1 now stand with all 3 results possible.

For the love for the underdog I hope WI can draw the game at the very least.....and if a couple of their batsmen "click"...a win is not beyond the realms of possible.

The Pak-Eng game too has meandered to a situation of all 3 possibilities.
It would be a shame if after the brand of blazing cricket Eng played..the lose it.
I think Eng win is still more likely than other two scenarios...and I hope they  do win, for that will empower their style of play.
And their game strategy/ team selection giving themselves 4 slow bowlers on a Patta pitch has been astute....although I wonder why they did not bowl Livngston.....is he injured?

From Pak's P.O.V the first session is cliched super important tomorrow....
They would like their specialist batter Agha with a FC average of 40 to shepherd the tail and eek out another 100 in morning session.....leaving a deficit of 50odd
That would open up two good scenarios for Pak:
- Eng crumble for sub-200ish total and Pak chase down sub-250ish.
-Alternatively Eng bat themselves to safety....leaving too little time to bowl Pak out and Pak still go on to earn a credible draw.

Eng would like to pluck out last 3 quickly....get a lead of 100+ and in 2.5 sessions...smack another 250+ and bowl out Pak on the last day to win by 50-100 runs

Exciting test cricket will all possibiliites in both tests.

Bear in mind though Pak have reduced daylight hours in winters...10AM is too late a start to get 90 overs in and they have averaged 79 overs over first 3 days.
It would take an extraordinary collapse for Pak to lose
And a minor miracle for Eng to lose

DRAW the very highly likely scenario

KP_F - Livingstone appears to have done his hamstring, hence no overs from him.

Good persistence from the England bowlers and fielders today - a result still seems unlikely, but they have at least given themselves a glimmer of hope if they can wrap up the final three wickets quickly tomorrow.

Sounds like England will be declaring with aggressive intent, if Root's words are anything to go by.

“We are not really interested in drawing the match. We want to give ourselves the best chance of winning it, and if Pakistan are good enough to beat us, then so be it. We have three big wickets to take, then we will try to crash a few around and try to get to a reasonable total. There’s still a lot of entertaining cricket to play over the next two days.”

Duty281 wrote:Sounds like England will be declaring with aggressive intent, if Root's words are anything to go by.

“We are not really interested in drawing the match. We want to give ourselves the best chance of winning it, and if Pakistan are good enough to beat us, then so be it. We have three big wickets to take, then we will try to crash a few around and try to get to a reasonable total. There’s still a lot of entertaining cricket to play over the next two days.”

Yeah I expect England to push hard for a win if it is at all possible. Quicker they can get the last three now the better ; but can't see them just going through the motions with the bat - they'll be going hard to set a target and put Pakistan under maximum pressure on day five.

Dead pitch may well still have the last word ; but I think it will be worth watching to see whether the "positive intent " can get its just rewards...

There’s an interesting clash between Jacks and Leach - most of the boundaries off Leach are when batters skip down to him and try to bash him over his head. Which is made possible by the lack of dip he gets. A lot of side spin, hence his good record on spinning decks and fourth innings but not a lot of over spin.

On the other hand, Jacks is inconsistent but gets nice dip - especially for a tall man. Gives him half a chance of deceiving batters on flat decks, even when he bowls a bad ball an over, whereas Leach will hit a spot on a flat pitch but with less deception when no side spin is available.

Some good points raised above by JD. Suggests Leach will need a bit more aid from this pitch if he's to do damage tomorrow ? Pity Livingstone is injured.

Leach and Anderson entrusted with the opening role this morning ; no joy yet for England : Mahmood solid , Salman playing some shots. 526/7.

Here is Jacks now...

Now : has Jacks got Salman ? Given after a delay...but no , review shows pitched outside leg.

Just another Joel Wilson howler

At least one beat the bat ! Pakistan fairly comfortable at 542/7. Not sure where a wicket might come from...

But that was close ! Salman called Mahmood through for a quick single ...and very sharp work by Pope to retrieve the ball and missed a shy at the stumps by centimetres - would have had him by a yard !

Unnecessary risk by Pakistan as a run out looks the most likely method of dismissal on this

Fifty for Salman

Wicket !!!

Jacks has Salman...well caught at slip by Crawley off a strangely indecisive push...

That came out of nowhere ! Jacks has four ; and the door might be opening a crack.That was a very good innings with the tail by Salman ; but he will be disappointed to have got out now.

555/8

So now Mahmood has elected to go after Leach...launches him over cow corner and Leach has figures to rival his own : 2/190 , albeit off 49 overs.

Can Jacks get a Michelle , we wonder ?

Yes !

Jacks has five ! Brilliant leg side take and stumping by Pope

Who needs Ben Foakes

576/9 , Mahmood's foot stuck on the line so he has to go...

Seriously , that was terrific work by Pope. He was struggling a bit early in the match , but he's grown into the role ...and to bring that off after 150 overs in a less than familiar position was pretty damn good.

Ball came to him easily enough : but he might well have been put off by the batsman's attempted sweep ; so to quickly snip off the bails was excellent work.

Good combination by the Surrey Mob

And six for Jacks ! Haris Rauf gets too excited , charges and edges to Root at slip...

All out 579 so 78 in arrears .

Jacks has 6/161 from 40.3 overs

Now : What can England do with the bat to set a target in time to be meaningful ?

Apparently best debut figures for an England bowler since ... James Kirtley in 2003.

Kirtley hardly played another Test so hope that isn't a bad sign for Jacks

Presume England will be keen to score fast ...but not the best start as Duckett nicks off to slip first ball...

1/1.

That early wicket not the best news for Pope who has just kept for 154 overs and is back out there already ! At least he should be seeing the ball well.

This will be a tricky balance for England. Need to score fast , need to give themselves time to bowl Pakistan out .. But must consider their bowlers surely have to get a decent rest after toiling for two days.

Judging by the way Pope has attacked those two short balls they are not going to sit around...

Hmm. England going for it...but two down now as Pope is caught hooking. Crawley was just dropped - a sharp C&B chance - so they might need to be a bit more selective for a while...

37/2 after 5.2 overs.

How long before people claim this pitch was fine all along because 30+ wickets end up falling?

Crawley has looked a bit wobbly : some typically lovely shots mixed with a few minor errors. Just got surprised with a full toss and narrowly popped it past mid off. But he's on 24 at run a ball and they are 46/2 from seven overs at lunch.

Game certainly not dead. May still not see a result but I fancy it is staying alive for a long way yet.

Lowlandbrit wrote:How long before people claim this pitch was fine all along because 30+ wickets end up falling?

Haha... Don't think "fine" is going to be the takeaway , whatever happens from here.

TBH , I don't mind the odd really flat deck - variety , eh ? And batsmen probably deserve the occasional party. But we see too many of these in Pakistan - and really there would be no hope of a result in this if it weren't for England's super-aggressive approach - and Pakistan's spirited response .

Continuing to move along after lunch...both Root and Crawley going at better than run a ball.

Crawley will never be a player on whom you'd be happy to wager your house ; but boy he is good to watch when he's on song . Seems to like batting against Pakistan , and he's gone to another fifty here ...

But he's gone now on drs ...a touch on the glove down leg. He's not happy : what did he think it hit ? Doesn't look much doubt on the screen...anyway he's gone.

96/3

Well 105 now as Harry Brook starts with a six

JDizzle wrote:There’s an interesting clash between Jacks and Leach - most of the boundaries off Leach are when batters skip down to him and try to bash him over his head. Which is made possible by the lack of dip he gets. A lot of side spin, hence his good record on spinning decks and fourth innings but not a lot of over spin.

On the other hand, Jacks is inconsistent but gets nice dip - especially for a tall man. Gives him half a chance of deceiving batters on flat decks, even when he bowls a bad ball an over, whereas Leach will hit a spot on a flat pitch but with less deception when no side spin is available.

Very good points there, JD.

I would say that it was mainly in the second half of the 2022 domestic season that Jacks started to utilise his height and get such dip. It was only then that he was playing as a frontline spinner rather than as a support spinner to the heavily concentrated Surrey seam attack. Prior to that, his Championship bowling was more akin to that of his bowling in white ball cricket where he would push it through and try to keep the scoring dry, sometimes ''stealing'' one or two overs at the start of the opposition's innings.

I won't say Jacks was lucky today but he was well served by his fielders behind the wicket. Two sharp slip catches and, as Alfie posted, a fine stumping by Pope beyond his limited experience as a gloveman - he seemed genuinely confident and delighted as he appealed. Anyway, Jacks is a smart young guy and will realise that the sun won't always shine so brightly for him. Today though, he deserves his plaudits for his success and the hard yakka involved.

Hi Guildford...nice to have some company on here , was getting a bit lonely

Thought you'd be delighted about Jacks : probably fair to say he did have some good fortune with some injudicious strokes being played off him yesterday ; but I reckon he bowled rather well today and really did the job on that stubborn tail , not being afraid to toss the ball up - one of the benefits of playing for Stokes . And perhaps defending 657 I guess...

alfie wrote:Hi Guildford...nice to have some company on here , was getting a bit lonely

Thought you'd be delighted about Jacks : probably fair to say he did have some good fortune with some injudicious strokes being played off him yesterday ; but I reckon he bowled rather well today and really did the job on that stubborn tail , not being afraid to toss the ball up - one of the benefits of playing for Stokes . And  perhaps defending 657 I guess...

Hi Alfie - nice to be with you. Joined at lunch and caught up with morning highlights.

Yeah, Stokes is a good skipper for Jacks. Encouraging him to go for wickets even if some deliveries went to the rope. Mind you and as you say, that was clearly the right approach with 657 on the board and Jacks did what was required of him, if not better. 

I don't know if it's already happened in this Test but I would like to see Jacks bowling at some time in tandem with Anderson. Besides smiling at the contrast of the experience between the two, the batsmen being stifled by the characteristic miserliness of Jimmy might create further chances at the other end for Jacks' attacking dip.

Still lively...lost Crawley but added 100 in 15 overs since lunch. Root not missing out on a fifty this innings.

Harry Brook has that “it” factor doesn’t he?

I also like the Jacks/Anderson pairing . It was used - successfully - just after tea yesterday when they shared the wickets of Babar and Rizwan. May have been in partnership at other times but I can't remember all the details (too much sport stats etc in my head this weekend !) I think we will see it a bit tomorrow .

Jacks will face different situations of course - they won't get 657 every time ! But this debut will give him confidence