Political round up.............

by **superflyweight** Mon 24 Oct 2022, 5:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Duty281 wrote:Sunak speaks for a grand total of 84 seconds and then scuttles away to get his orders.

Crackpot.

by Duty281 Fri 17 Nov 2023, 4:19 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:So, my daughter, who Duty established as antisemitic by attending the pro-Palestine march last weekend, is also attending the march against antisemitism tomorrow.
Of course, we know that she is antisemitic, and that anyone who marches alongside her, an antisemitic, is also antisemitic themselves - so anyone else on the march against antisemitism tomorrow will actually be antisemitic.

Isn't that on Sunday? Or is there another one I'm not aware of?

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 17 Nov 2023, 4:32 pm

Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:So, my daughter, who Duty established as antisemitic by attending the pro-Palestine march last weekend, is also attending the march against antisemitism tomorrow.
Of course, we know that she is antisemitic, and that anyone who marches alongside her, an antisemitic, is also antisemitic themselves - so anyone else on the march against antisemitism tomorrow will actually be antisemitic.

Isn't that on Sunday? Or is there another one I'm not aware of?

Could be on Sunday. I asked about going on the march 'this weekend' and the reply was 'yes'. I thought it was on Saturday but probably wrong.

by Duty281 Fri 17 Nov 2023, 4:43 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:So, my daughter, who Duty established as antisemitic by attending the pro-Palestine march last weekend, is also attending the march against antisemitism tomorrow.
Of course, we know that she is antisemitic, and that anyone who marches alongside her, an antisemitic, is also antisemitic themselves - so anyone else on the march against antisemitism tomorrow will actually be antisemitic.

Isn't that on Sunday? Or is there another one I'm not aware of?

Could be on Sunday. I asked about going on the march 'this weekend' and the reply was 'yes'. I thought it was on Saturday but probably wrong.

OK. Well the one I'm aware of is the Christian Action Against Anti-Semitism organised event on Sunday, which is in London.

That appears to be the same organisation which thinks that last week's march was 'flagrant anti-Semitism invading our streets', that on last Saturday 'anti-Semitic rhetoric is being so heard so much it is becoming normalised', questions why hundreds of thousands of people on the march had no problem with the 'awful, offensive signs' that were visible, and wonders what has happened to Britain.

They also appear to like Suella Braverman's position on the matter, and endorse what Johnson said last week.

The tagline, if that's the right term, for Sunday's event is: "THIS SUNDAY BRITAIN GETS TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT WE ARE NOT FULL OF JEW-HATERS! [not my capitals]"

Would be curious if your daughter's going along to this one as well, because it seems to be directly opposite to last week, but she may be going to a different event/protest/march that I'm unaware of.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 17 Nov 2023, 4:52 pm

It's the one on Sunday. Says she saw it on Tw*tter feed, from Campaign Against Antisemitism.

by Duty281 Fri 17 Nov 2023, 5:20 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:It's the one on Sunday. Says she saw it on Tw*tter feed, from Campaign Against Antisemitism.

The one from Campaign Against Antisemitism is on Sunday the 26th.

They also take a dim view against last week's march - "Today, Islamist extremists, the far-left, and the far-right were out on the streets. What a day to be a Jew in London. These marches are far from “peaceful”. If you say they are, you are just gaslighting Jews. It is the fifth straight week of this. Enough is enough."

In fact, I think they're a bit harder than Christian Action Against Anti-Semitism, as they want those pro-Palestine marches banned.

by **JuliusHMarx** Fri 17 Nov 2023, 5:55 pm

That's worth knowing because if that is the one, and I confused her by not knowing when it was, I may advise her against going, or at least keeping quiet about going on the other one, because I don't think she'd be safe otherwise.

by Duty281 Thu 23 Nov 2023, 1:08 am

Bit of a surprise in the Dutch election. Wilders' Party For Freedom was polling at around level, or one or two seats ahead of second place, only for an exit poll to reveal that they will probably claim a nine or ten seat advantage over the next biggest party.

But no guarantees, far from it, that Wilders will be able to govern, as he's still well short of a majority, and potential coalition partners have previously been cold towards the idea of working with him.

This surprise follows closely from Milei's triumph in Argentina.

by Lowlandbrit Thu 23 Nov 2023, 5:53 am

Wilders has been putting on his most reasonable face this campaign. With Rutte gone, the door wasn't as firmly shut on him being in a coalition. Seems to have benefited from right-wing voters not wanting Timmermans to be PM too.

by mountain man Thu 23 Nov 2023, 8:45 am

Wilders getting such a majority will have big implications for the Netherlands but also Europe politically. There is a growing and vocal anti Islam, anti immigration campaign and other countries will see this and aim to do similar.

by lostinwales Thu 23 Nov 2023, 9:18 am

Worth a small reminder of how immigration is being used as a weapon by Russia to destabilize Europe, both through driving the circumstances (e.g. Syria, Ukraine etc) and through supporting the kind of right wing nutters who like to blame all their woes on the starving and half drowned refugee.

by **Pal Joey** Thu 23 Nov 2023, 12:44 pm

Also worth considering that perhaps Wilders has a point.

Over a quarter of the country is already below sea level. Too many more and you guys might be bordering Germany. So maybe a small slowdown in immigration to the Netherlands is not such a bad idea after all?

They can go to Venice instead... preferably in the off-peak tourist season. Nobody should notice.

by **navyblueshorts** Thu 23 Nov 2023, 1:11 pm

lostinwales wrote:Worth a small reminder of how immigration is being used as a weapon by Russia to destabilize Europe, both through driving the circumstances (e.g. Syria, Ukraine etc) and through supporting the kind of right wing nutters who like to blame all their woes on the starving and half drowned refugee.

mountain man wrote:Wilders getting such a majority will have big implications for the Netherlands but also Europe politically. There is a growing and vocal anti Islam, anti immigration campaign and other countries will see this and aim to do similar.

I don't think it helps that too many politicians etc don't make any case for the positives of immigration etc. They've left that space to the rabble rousers like Farage, Wilders, Trump et al. Add in that many people aren't feeling that well-off these days, and who gets the blame?

The fact is that a lot of people are concerned about immigration and its effects on jobs, housing, schools, GP services etc etc. Legitimate questions. Ignoring it and/or calling those with such concerns xenophobes or racists isn't helping anything and is only entrenching positions.

by Duty281 Thu 23 Nov 2023, 1:47 pm

Wilders' actual win a bit bigger than the exit poll suggested, taking 37 seats in all. But still needs to find 39 seats from others in a coalition agreement to form a government.

The VVD (24 seats) and NSC (20 seats) are open to talks, but it remains to be seen how much Wilders will have to water down his platform to get an agreement. He needs at least one of those parties to join him, then the smaller parties can likely lift him from there to the magical 76. But if neither join then Wilders' hopes are all but gone, which could lead to another election, or a massive coalition to keep Wilders out (which I imagine would anger many).

by **JuliusHMarx** Thu 23 Nov 2023, 1:50 pm

He was good as Willy Wonka.

by Lowlandbrit Thu 23 Nov 2023, 3:16 pm

Duty281 wrote:Wilders' actual win a bit bigger than the exit poll suggested, taking 37 seats in all. But still needs to find 39 seats from others in a coalition agreement to form a government.

Looks like a remarkably quick and easy (for recent history) PVV+VVD+NSC+BBB government. Wilders has been notably softening the anti-islam rhetoric to keep Omtzigt (NSC) in play, and the VVD base never liked Rutte blocking him (they did like him winning elections, which was probably helped by playing the 'if you want a right-wing PM vote for me' card).
At that point it's a 'true' right-wing government, which would have a sympathetic audience of 100.

by Duty281 Fri 24 Nov 2023, 6:13 pm

The VVD have ruled out a coalition with Wilders' PVV, so that's a blow for Wilders, although the VVD have indicated they might provide voting support on key issues to a minority government.

Means Wilders needs to get the NSC into a coalition, however that won't be easy.

by Lowlandbrit Sat 25 Nov 2023, 1:19 pm

These things take weeks/months at the best of times, and there's always an amount of posturing to get through first. Still think the most likely outcome is that Wilders lets himself be seen to be somewhat 'tamed' by Omtzigt (to keep the moderates from rebelling) and the VVD get 'convinced' to 'reluctantly' join in 'for the good of the country' (they don't want to be crowded out playing second fiddle, but if they frustrate it too much their voters may look elsewhere for a party that won't).

by Duty281 Mon 27 Nov 2023, 2:36 pm

A beautiful march against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, attended by around 100,000.

Peaceful, tolerant, and a wonderful restoration of faith after the hate we've seen in London over the previous 6/7 weeks.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 27 Nov 2023, 2:48 pm

Duty281 wrote:A beautiful march against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, attended by around 100,000.

Peaceful, tolerant, and a wonderful restoration of faith after the hate we've seen in London over the previous 6/7 weeks.

Nice try. Seem to have seen that ****, Tommy Robinson, at the so-called "beautiful march". Still, he doesn't hate anyone, does he?

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 27 Nov 2023, 2:49 pm

On a different subject, I am gobsmacked, gobsmacked I tell you, that this could possibly occur:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67508331

by Duty281 Mon 27 Nov 2023, 3:20 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:A beautiful march against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, attended by around 100,000.

Peaceful, tolerant, and a wonderful restoration of faith after the hate we've seen in London over the previous 6/7 weeks.
Nice try. Seem to have seen that ****, Tommy Robinson, at the so-called "beautiful march". Still, he doesn't hate anyone, does he?

He wasn't at the march. He was told by the organisers that his presence wasn't welcome, he tried to turn up anyway, and was swiftly removed by law enforcement.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 27 Nov 2023, 3:29 pm

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:A beautiful march against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, attended by around 100,000.

Peaceful, tolerant, and a wonderful restoration of faith after the hate we've seen in London over the previous 6/7 weeks.
Nice try. Seem to have seen that ****, Tommy Robinson, at the so-called "beautiful march". Still, he doesn't hate anyone, does he?

He wasn't at the march. He was told by the organisers that his presence wasn't welcome, he tried to turn up anyway, and was swiftly removed by law enforcement.

Probably the same as many of those you disliked so much at the pro-Palestine marches.

Israeli apologists can try all they like, but the cat's truly out of the bag now. Israel is a "light to the nations"? You've got to be ****ing kidding.

by Duty281 Mon 27 Nov 2023, 3:34 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:A beautiful march against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, attended by around 100,000.

Peaceful, tolerant, and a wonderful restoration of faith after the hate we've seen in London over the previous 6/7 weeks.
Nice try. Seem to have seen that ****, Tommy Robinson, at the so-called "beautiful march". Still, he doesn't hate anyone, does he?

He wasn't at the march. He was told by the organisers that his presence wasn't welcome, he tried to turn up anyway, and was swiftly removed by law enforcement.
Probably the same as many of those you disliked so much at the pro-Palestine marches.

Israeli apologists can try all they like, but the cat's truly out of the bag now. Israel is a "light to the nations"? You've got to be ****ing kidding.

This was primarily about marching against the sharp rise in anti-Jewish hatred in the UK, and showing solidarity with our Jewish citizens.

'The cat's truly out of the bag now'. What, that Israel will defend itself against Jihadist scum like Hamas? I don't think that was really a secret.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 27 Nov 2023, 4:11 pm

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:A beautiful march against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, attended by around 100,000.

Peaceful, tolerant, and a wonderful restoration of faith after the hate we've seen in London over the previous 6/7 weeks.
Nice try. Seem to have seen that ****, Tommy Robinson, at the so-called "beautiful march". Still, he doesn't hate anyone, does he?

He wasn't at the march. He was told by the organisers that his presence wasn't welcome, he tried to turn up anyway, and was swiftly removed by law enforcement.
Probably the same as many of those you disliked so much at the pro-Palestine marches.

Israeli apologists can try all they like, but the cat's truly out of the bag now. Israel is a "light to the nations"? You've got to be ****ing kidding.

This was primarily about marching against the sharp rise in anti-Jewish hatred in the UK, and showing solidarity with our Jewish citizens.

'The cat's truly out of the bag now'. What, that Israel will defend itself against Jihadist scum like Hamas? I don't think that was really a secret.

No; that the Israeli state is criminal. That it is in breech of UN conventions. That it's xenophobic and genocidal, and has been since the 1940s. That it conducts extra-judicial assassinations. That supports murderous settler violence with impunity. That murders innocent people trying to deliver aid to Gaza. That imprisons without trial. That conducts de facto apartheid. That conducts sham trials of alleged Palestinian criminals. That answers a child throwing a stone with aimed live fire. That drops 500lb, or 1000lb, bombs on residential buildings. That conducts policy in supporting Hamas specifically to prevent overall Palestinian cohesion and the implementation of the political solutions that Israel itself has signed up to. That sort of secret? You bet.

Israel is not 'defending' itself right now. This is vengeance and the collective punishment of the Palestinian civilians in Gaza - a war crime. Don't take my word for it; just check out the genocidal remarks from Israel's own politicians recently and over the years.

"Sharp rise in anti-Jewish hatred" ?? Where? More weaponisation of alleged anti-Semitism. It's not even specifically a rise in anti-Semitism, which is what you're trying to allege, isn't it? There's been a concomitant rise in Islamophobic offences over the same period.

by Samo Mon 27 Nov 2023, 5:34 pm

Doesn't surprise me little Tommy Ten Names was asked by organisers to stay away. The Jews know a nazi when they see one.

by Duty281 Mon 27 Nov 2023, 6:00 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:A beautiful march against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, attended by around 100,000.

Peaceful, tolerant, and a wonderful restoration of faith after the hate we've seen in London over the previous 6/7 weeks.
Nice try. Seem to have seen that ****, Tommy Robinson, at the so-called "beautiful march". Still, he doesn't hate anyone, does he?

He wasn't at the march. He was told by the organisers that his presence wasn't welcome, he tried to turn up anyway, and was swiftly removed by law enforcement.
Probably the same as many of those you disliked so much at the pro-Palestine marches.

Israeli apologists can try all they like, but the cat's truly out of the bag now. Israel is a "light to the nations"? You've got to be ****ing kidding.

This was primarily about marching against the sharp rise in anti-Jewish hatred in the UK, and showing solidarity with our Jewish citizens.

'The cat's truly out of the bag now'. What, that Israel will defend itself against Jihadist scum like Hamas? I don't think that was really a secret.
No; that the Israeli state is criminal. That it is in breech of UN conventions. That it's xenophobic and genocidal, and has been since the 1940s. That it conducts extra-judicial assassinations. That supports murderous settler violence with impunity. That murders innocent people trying to deliver aid to Gaza. That imprisons without trial. That conducts de facto apartheid. That conducts sham trials of alleged Palestinian criminals. That answers a child throwing a stone with aimed live fire. That drops 500lb, or 1000lb, bombs on residential buildings. That conducts policy in supporting Hamas specifically to prevent overall Palestinian cohesion and the implementation of the political solutions that Israel itself has signed up to. That sort of secret? You bet.

Israel is not 'defending' itself right now. This is vengeance and the collective punishment of the Palestinian civilians in Gaza - a war crime. Don't take my word for it; just check out the genocidal remarks from Israel's own politicians recently and over the years.

"Sharp rise in anti-Jewish hatred" ?? Where? More weaponisation of alleged anti-Semitism. It's not even specifically a rise in anti-Semitism, which is what you're trying to allege, isn't it? There's been a concomitant rise in Islamophobic offences over the same period.

What do you mean, 'where'? We've been over this before. And it's not equal to the rise of Islamophobia.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2023/oct/20/antisemitic-hate-crimes-in-london-rise-1350-since-israel-hamas-war-met-says

There has been a 1,350% increase in hate crimes against Jewish people as the Middle East crisis erupted, the Metropolitan police have said, with no arrests so far in nine out of 10 alleged offences. Figures from the Met covering London show that 218 antisemitic offences were recorded from 1 October to 18 October this year, compared with 15 in the same period last year. Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October, and Israel attacked Gaza shortly after. Ade Adelekan, the deputy assistant commissioner, described the rise as “significant” and said Islamophobic offences in London were up 140% over the same period, from 42 in 2022 to 103.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67102528

There has been a "massive increase" in antisemitic incidents in London since the Hamas attacks on Israel, the Metropolitan Police said. Between 30 September and 13 October there were 105 antisemitic incidents and 75 offences. In the same period last year, there were 14 antisemitic incidents and 12 offences. Met Police deputy assistant commissioner Laurence Taylor said antisemitic incidents over the past week included intimidation outside synagogues and loudly playing German military music. He added the force had also seen an increase in Islamophobic incidents, "but nothing like the scale of the increase in antisemitism".

Not isolated to the UK, either, it's all across Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/24/rise-in-antisemitism-brings-germans-back-to-most-horrific-times

Klein, who became Germany’s first federal commissioner tasked with battling antisemitism in 2018, said many in the country were worried that the situation would continue to deteriorate.

“People are shocked to hear news of houses where Jews live being marked with a Star of David,” he said. “Because that, of course, rings a bell and brings us back to the most horrific times we had in this country.”

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20231102-since-hamas-attack-france-s-jewish-community-faces-a-surge-in-anti-semitism

Since the Hamas attacks on October 7 and the subsequent war launched by Israel in the Gaza Strip, 819 acts of anti-Semitism have been reported in France: more incidents in three weeks than over the past year. The offenses range from verbal abuse and anti-Semitic graffiti to physical assaults and death threats.

I get you don't like the state of Israel, and that's fair enough, but I hope you can separate your dislike of Israel from the plight of innocent Jewish people.

by **JuliusHMarx** Mon 27 Nov 2023, 6:28 pm

Duty281 wrote:A beautiful march against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, attended by around 100,000.

Peaceful, tolerant, and a wonderful restoration of faith after the hate we've seen in London over the previous 6/7 weeks.

My daughter did go, and didn't see any trouble (but she didn't personally see any on the Pro-Palestine march either).

by **JuliusHMarx** Mon 27 Nov 2023, 6:30 pm

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:A beautiful march against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, attended by around 100,000.

Peaceful, tolerant, and a wonderful restoration of faith after the hate we've seen in London over the previous 6/7 weeks.
Nice try. Seem to have seen that ****, Tommy Robinson, at the so-called "beautiful march". Still, he doesn't hate anyone, does he?

He wasn't at the march. He was told by the organisers that his presence wasn't welcome, he tried to turn up anyway, and was swiftly removed by law enforcement.

Many people are outraged by the fact that he was swiftly removed.

by Duty281 Mon 27 Nov 2023, 10:27 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:A beautiful march against Anti-Semitism in London yesterday, attended by around 100,000.

Peaceful, tolerant, and a wonderful restoration of faith after the hate we've seen in London over the previous 6/7 weeks.
Nice try. Seem to have seen that ****, Tommy Robinson, at the so-called "beautiful march". Still, he doesn't hate anyone, does he?

He wasn't at the march. He was told by the organisers that his presence wasn't welcome, he tried to turn up anyway, and was swiftly removed by law enforcement.

Many people are outraged by the fact that he was swiftly removed.

And they can be divided into two camps. The first - supporters of Tommy Robinson. They'd probably be outraged if he were arrested for anything he did, to be honest.

The second - those who wonder why people like Robinson can be swiftly dealt with by two dozen cops piling in, but the same thing cannot be done (apparently) for the likes of Mohammed Hijab.

by mountain man Tue 28 Nov 2023, 8:29 am

I saw on news Robinson was arrested and carted away but what did he do other than turn up very much unwanted at the rally? Did he say or chant something etc?

I think I'm in 2nd camp Duty, I wonder why he is dealt with but others are not. Something I've mentioned previously is it seems some groups can march on streets calling for death/beheadings etc and remain unbothered by the police.

I'll just state here for clarity I have no skin(that's an unfortunate phrase but anyway) in any side of Gaza/Israel/Robinson/whatever

by Samo Tue 28 Nov 2023, 8:58 am

On Monday the Metropolitan police confirmed he been charged in connection with this incident and will appear in court in the new year.

In a statement, it added: “Stephen Lennon, of Bedfordshire, has been charged with failing to comply with a section 35 direction excluding a person from an area. He has been bailed to appear at Westminster magistrates court on 22 January.”

by mountain man Tue 28 Nov 2023, 9:17 am

See that's the problem then, he was arrested under an exclusion order but surely as we live in a democracy then the right to peaceful protest should be allowed even if your views are deemed as distasteful/racist/whatever.

Obviously the police did it to prevent an escalation at the rally but it's tricky to have it both ways.

As mentioned previously, I'm not sure same level of thoroughness shall we say is applied in every situation.

Again, I'll reiterate I am in no way defending him or his so called ideology.

by lostinwales Tue 28 Nov 2023, 9:40 am

mountain man wrote:See that's the problem then, he was arrested under an exclusion order but surely as we live in a democracy then the right to peaceful protest should be allowed even if your views are deemed as distasteful/racist/whatever.

Obviously the police did it to prevent an escalation at the rally but it's tricky to have it both ways.

As mentioned previously, I'm not sure same level of thoroughness shall we say is applied in every situation.

Again, I'll reiterate I am in no way defending him or his so called ideology.

So basically there was some kind of court order saying he couldn't just turn up in London so he did in a very obvious way knowing he'd get arrested and get lots of publicity. The grift goes on.

by mountain man Tue 28 Nov 2023, 10:02 am

Oh for sure he knew what he was doing and likely outcome but point I think stands.

In all this I have immense sympathy for police because whatever they do it's wrong in someones eyes.

by Samo Tue 28 Nov 2023, 10:50 am

The right to peaceful protest is fundamental, unfortunately little Tommy Ten Names has never had a peaceful protest in his puff, so his reputation preceeds him.

I think for the point to stand you would need to find evidence of someone else not being charged after failing to comply with a Section 35.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 28 Nov 2023, 11:08 am

Duty281 wrote:...I get you don't like the state of Israel, and that's fair enough, but I hope you can separate your dislike of Israel from the plight of innocent Jewish people.

Any increase is too much, but stop over-egging the pudding. It's what Israel and their attack dogs do habitually. Enough.

There've been increases in Islamophobic hate crimes as well since Oct 7th. This is what happens when loads of thick xenophobes jump on the Israel-Gaza situation.

There are two issues here that are being conflated, which I don't think they should be, even if they're interwoven.

1. Hamas's atrocities of Oct 7th.
2. Israel's decades old abuse of Palestinians.

I don't think anyone would suggest nothing should have been done about the Oct 7th atrocities, but Israel did its usual thing, and went off all excessive and genocidal. Now what? What about the fact that Hamas has presence in the West Bank? Netanyahu needs reining in because he's boxed himself in politically now, with his macho posturing and "Hamas will be destroyed" rhetoric.

As for Israel's behaviour towards the Palestinians over decades, I suspect it'll be allowed to just continue, which is pretty despicable. What needs to happen is that they're forced to abide by the UN conventions they signed up to etc, forced to face what they've done and forced to allow the implementation of, at the least, a workable two-state solution that the Palestinians have some say in the creation of.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 28 Nov 2023, 11:08 am

On a different topic, how ****ing pathetic is our PM?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67549044

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 28 Nov 2023, 11:21 am

He may be pathetic, but he's not going to lose his marbles.

by **Galted** Tue 28 Nov 2023, 11:53 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:He may be pathetic, but he's not going to lose his marbles.

You're going to come acropolis if you carry on making light of these issues.

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 28 Nov 2023, 12:00 pm

Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:He may be pathetic, but he's not going to lose his marbles.

You're going to come acropolis if you carry on making light of these issues.

I'm not making light of it. I absolutely condemn Hummus.

by **Galted** Tue 28 Nov 2023, 12:28 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:He may be pathetic, but he's not going to lose his marbles.

You're going to come acropolis if you carry on making light of these issues.

I'm not making light of it. I absolutely condemn Hummus.

Olive for the day I can take one of your posts seriously.

by lostinwales Tue 28 Nov 2023, 1:52 pm

mountain man wrote:Oh for sure he knew what he was doing and likely outcome but point I think stands.

In all this I have immense sympathy for police because whatever they do it's wrong in someones eyes.

The point is that he chose to break the law in a very public way and somehow attach his actions to 'free speech' and right to protest, not because he believes in the reason for the march. The march itself was not relevant to his arrest.

You are buying into the false narrative

by Duty281 Tue 28 Nov 2023, 2:08 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...I get you don't like the state of Israel, and that's fair enough, but I hope you can separate your dislike of Israel from the plight of innocent Jewish people.
Any increase is too much, but stop over-egging the pudding. It's what Israel and their attack dogs do habitually. Enough.

There've been increases in Islamophobic hate crimes as well since Oct 7th. This is what happens when loads of thick xenophobes jump on the Israel-Gaza situation.

There are two issues here that are being conflated, which I don't think they should be, even if they're interwoven.

1. Hamas's atrocities of Oct 7th.
2. Israel's decades old abuse of Palestinians.

I don't think anyone would suggest nothing should have been done about the Oct 7th atrocities, but Israel did its usual thing, and went off all excessive and genocidal. Now what? What about the fact that Hamas has presence in the West Bank? Netanyahu needs reining in because he's boxed himself in politically now, with his macho posturing and "Hamas will be destroyed" rhetoric.

As for Israel's behaviour towards the Palestinians over decades, I suspect it'll be allowed to just continue, which is pretty despicable. What needs to happen is that they're forced to abide by the UN conventions they signed up to etc, forced to face what they've done and forced to allow the implementation of, at the least, a workable two-state solution that the Palestinians have some say in the creation of.

I'm not over-egging it. I'm just pointing out there's been a huge rise in anti-Semitism, something you've previously expressed doubt over; and, while there has been an increase in Islamophobia, it is not equal to the rise of anti-Semitism, which you also claimed.

Israel has also not committed genocide. They could do so, if they wish, but choose not to do so.

by lostinwales Tue 28 Nov 2023, 2:09 pm

Funny I got pulled into a stupid discussion elsewhere with someone bemoaning the number of muslims in London. I pointed out that it's like going into Golders Green and using that as a basis of claiming that London is being taken over by Jews. Idiot's counter was that at least the Jews are not setting off bombs in London. However post war Jewish terrorists were active in the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)

by **JuliusHMarx** Tue 28 Nov 2023, 2:20 pm

lostinwales wrote:Funny I got pulled into a stupid discussion elsewhere with someone bemoaning the number of muslims in London. I pointed out that it's like going into Golders Green and using that as a basis of claiming that London is being taken over by Jews. Idiot's counter was that at least the Jews are not setting off bombs in London. However post war Jewish terrorists were active in the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)

Interesting read - I noted that the terrorist leader (sorry, freedom fighter), Yitzhak Shamir, became Prime Minister of Israel. I wonder if any criticism of Israel back in those days was deemed antisemitic?

by mountain man Tue 28 Nov 2023, 3:00 pm

lostinwales wrote:
mountain man wrote:Oh for sure he knew what he was doing and likely outcome but point I think stands.

In all this I have immense sympathy for police because whatever they do it's wrong in someones eyes.

The point is that he chose to break the law in a very public way and somehow attach his actions to 'free speech' and right to protest, not because he believes in the reason for the march. The march itself was not relevant to his arrest.

You are buying into the false narrative

Nope, not buying into any narrative, just making an observation.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 28 Nov 2023, 4:08 pm

Duty281 wrote:...and, while there has been an increase in Islamophobia, it is not equal to the rise of anti-Semitism, which you also claimed.

Buzzzz! Wrong. I made no comment on equivalence; merely that there has been rises in both. Be careful quoting percentage changes in any sort of effort to over-egg that pudding.

Duty281 wrote:Israel has also not committed genocide. They could do so, if they wish, but choose not to do so.

Israel's actions and publicly available comments by its politicians satisfy the definitions of genocidal. You don't have to agree, but it's true nonetheless I'm afraid.

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 28 Nov 2023, 4:23 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Funny I got pulled into a stupid discussion elsewhere with someone bemoaning the number of muslims in London. I pointed out that it's like going into Golders Green and using that as a basis of claiming that London is being taken over by Jews. Idiot's counter was that at least the Jews are not setting off bombs in London. However post war Jewish terrorists were active in the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)

Interesting read - I noted that the terrorist leader (sorry, freedom fighter), Yitzhak Shamir, became Prime Minister of Israel. I wonder if any criticism of Israel back in those days was deemed antisemitic?

Indeed. These are the people, with their beliefs, that the country is built on. Shamir, Rabin (murderer and ethnic cleanser), Begin (Irgun commander and murderer), Sharon (murderer) etc. Is it any wonder Israel sees no problem with its behaviour? I don't think they know any other way. Bathed in blood and proud of it. A shame that so many normal citizens are dragged along for the ride.

by Duty281 Tue 28 Nov 2023, 9:06 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...and, while there has been an increase in Islamophobia, it is not equal to the rise of anti-Semitism, which you also claimed.
Buzzzz! Wrong. I made no comment on equivalence; merely that there has been rises in both. Be careful quoting percentage changes in any sort of effort to over-egg that pudding.

Duty281 wrote:Israel has also not committed genocide. They could do so, if they wish, but choose not to do so.
Israel's actions and publicly available comments by its politicians satisfy the definitions of genocidal. You don't have to agree, but it's true nonetheless I'm afraid.

It isn't true. It's just ludicrous hyperbole. Genocide is the physical destruction of a national, ethnic, racial or religious group. Israel have not done this.

If they wanted to do this, like how Hamas wants to commit genocide against the Jews, then they have the capacity to eradicate every life from Palestine. But they don't. Because they're not genocidal.

by Duty281 Tue 28 Nov 2023, 9:12 pm

lostinwales wrote:Funny I got pulled into a stupid discussion elsewhere with someone bemoaning the number of muslims in London. I pointed out that it's like going into Golders Green and using that as a basis of claiming that London is being taken over by Jews. Idiot's counter was that at least the Jews are not setting off bombs in London. However post war Jewish terrorists were active in the UK.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(militant_group)

Haha, 1947? We have virtually zero problems with the Jewish population in our country. The same cannot be said for our (rapidly expanding) Muslim population, unfortunately.

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