Champions Cup; and the other one if someone wants to comment

First topic message reminder :

Couldn't see another thread on a quick look so sorry if I've missed it.

This weeks fixtures as follows (lifted from the beeb):

Friday
POOL 1
Connacht v Bordeaux Bègles
20:00

POOL 3
Glasgow Warriors v Northampton Saints
20:00

EUROPEAN CHALLENGE CUP
POOL 3
ASM Clermont Auvergne v Edinburgh
20:00

....Guernsey vs Bury St Edmonds as well which is a biggy

Saturday
POOL 1
Bulls v Saracens
17:30

Bristol v Lyon
20:00

POOL 2
Bath v Ulster
15:15

Toulouse v Cardiff Rugby
15:15

POOL 3
Toulon v Exeter Chiefs
13:00

Munster v Bayonne
17:30

EUROPEAN CHALLENGE CUP
POOL 1
Zebre v Cheetahs
13:00

Sharks v Pau
15:15

Dragons v Oyonnax
20:00

POOL 2
Ospreys v Benetton
17:30

POOL 3
Black Lion v Gloucester
13:00

Castres v Scarlets
15:15

Sunday
POOL 2
Racing 92 v Harlequins
17:30

POOL 4
Sale v Stade Francais
13:00

La Rochelle v Leinster
15:15

Leicester Tigers v Stormers
15:15

EUROPEAN CHALLENGE CUP
POOL 2
Perpignan v Lions
13:00

Newcastle Falcons vMontpellier
15:15

quins could also have easily had a red for the guy that jumped into the winger late and hit his head.

While the Premiership clubs have generally performed better than expectations, yesterday's Quins result should put it into perspective. Both sides had mostly first choice selections, and Toulouse were too much for Quins to handle. That might be how it plays out for the English sides in the knockout rounds.

Mind you, some big sides could miss out on qualification, which could clear a path for others. There are too many moving parts across the pools to be safely predict any outcome but Racing, Toulon, La Rochelle and Stade are all winless, and Munster have registered just a draw.

Bristol's showing at the weekend is the kind of performance expected from fielding a B team. Exeter last week, and Leicester this week show that these weaker selections can spring a surprise, so that muddies the waters even further.

Rugby Fan wrote:While the Premiership clubs have generally performed better than expectations, yesterday's Quins result should put it into perspective. Both sides had mostly first choice selections, and Toulouse were too much for Quins to handle. That might be how it plays out for the English sides in the knockout rounds.

Mind you, some big sides could miss out on qualification, which could clear a path for others. There are too many moving parts across the pools to be safely predict any outcome but Racing, Toulon, La Rochelle and Stade are all winless, and Munster have registered just a draw.

Bristol's showing at the weekend is the kind of performance expected from fielding a B team. Exeter last week, and Leicester this week show that these weaker selections can spring a surprise, so that muddies the waters even further.

Yeah, generally my view. A few sides look way out in front when they go full strength.

Looking across '21/22, '22/23 and now these opening two rounds, Tigers quite remarkably have 9 wins from 10 in the group stages across that period. Albeit one COVID cancellation that was awarded to them within that. They've done that whilst often rotating away too. They've also looked nowhere near in KOs once presented with one of the big boys playing their full team.

The reality of this format for the groups is that many sides are rotating at home, let alone away.

With Tigers (H) and Sale (A) to come I'd back La Rochelle to get the two wins which will likely carry them to the KOs.

I do think that fewer Prem games is allowing the English sides to go slightly stronger with selection during the groups than some French sides with their insanely long league season. Which is giving some interesting battles though. Stade rotated at prop and SH despite being at home this week.

Was impressed with Sale v Leinster, their A side v La Rochelle has a good chance of a win especially at home.

Sale are a really good side. I'd say their recent peaks make them the second best team I've seen in the Prem over the last couple of years. Sarries at their best being a touch better. Sanderson has got their forwards playing at a really impressive intensity and physicality that has often been lacking across the Prem recently.

Curry x 2, du Preez x 2, Jonny Hill and Cobus Wiese. Jono Ross until this season too of course. Having those players to pick across the second and back row means a consistently high level of physicality in the carry and tackle. Then Akker and Ashman, now Creevy and LCD at hooker who also suit that style.

Ford behind Warr or Quirke suits pulling the strings well in a game plan he nails. Physicality at 12. Wingers who nail their basics. Rob du Preez and James brothers x 2 covering lots of positions to ensure depth in key areas.

Sanderson has smartly prioritised certain areas rather than trying to cover all bases and coming up short in some due to budget restraints. He's then coached them to those strengths very well. Good team.

I'm really looking forward to their match with La Rochelle. The defending champions will have to win and have a similar game plan built around big guys smashing stuff in the loose. At their best they should have a bit more than Sale there. They didn't show it in R1 and R2 though.

The Cheetahs are playing Pau in the challenge cup in a couple of weeks time in Amsterdam. It's expected to be a sell out with 90% of tickets already sold. The stadium holds 5k, great to see.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:The Cheetahs are playing Pau in the challenge cup in a couple of weeks time in Amsterdam. It's expected to be a sell out with 90% of tickets already sold. The stadium holds 5k, great to see.

Is there a reason why they don't host games at Bloemfontein? I'm sure there was, but I don't remember.

Saints have named a pretty strong side for the visit of Bayonne tomorrow night, can Furbank keep his record of having won every game in which he has captained the side?

15 George Furbank (c)
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison
4 Temo Mayanavanua
5 Alex Coles
6 Courtney Lawes
7 Tom Pearson
8 Sam Graham

Replacements:
16 Sam Matavesi
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Alex Moon
20 Juarno Augustus
21 Angus Scott-Young
22 Tom James
23 Tom Litchfield

BAYONNE TEAM:
15 Aurélien Florian Callandret, 14 Nadir Megdoud, 13 Cheikh Tiberghien, 12 Eneriko Buliruarua, 11 Remy Baget, 10 Thomas Dolhagaray, 9 Maxime Machenaud; 1 Swan Cormenier, 2 Facundo Bosch, 3 Tevita Tatafu, 4 Denis Marchois (c), 5 Manuel Leindekar, 6 Rémi Bourdeau, 7 Baptiste Heguy, 8 Rodrigo Bruni (Back row).

Replacements: 16 Vincent Giudicelli, 17 Mathis Perchaud, 18 Pascal Cotet, 19 Lucas Paulos, 20 Uzair Cassiem, 21 Kléo Labarbe, 22 Tom Spring, 23 Yan Lestrade.

mikey_dragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:The Cheetahs are playing Pau in the challenge cup in a couple of weeks time in Amsterdam. It's expected to be a sell out with 90% of tickets already sold. The stadium holds 5k, great to see.

Is there a reason why they don't host games at Bloemfontein? I'm sure there was, but I don't remember.

Because they didn't earn their place in the Challange Cup but were invited, part of the invite stipulated that games must be played in Europe, they based themselves in Italy last season. Netherlands this season.

Kingshu wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:The Cheetahs are playing Pau in the challenge cup in a couple of weeks time in Amsterdam. It's expected to be a sell out with 90% of tickets already sold. The stadium holds 5k, great to see.

Is there a reason why they don't host games at Bloemfontein? I'm sure there was, but I don't remember.

Because they didn't earn their place in the Challange Cup but were invited, part of the invite stipulated that games must be played in Europe, they based themselves in Italy last season. Netherlands this season.

They did get a home game against the Sharks didn't they? A game they actually managed to win.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Saints have named a pretty strong side for the visit of Bayonne tomorrow night, can Furbank keep his record of having won every game in which he has captained the side?

15 George Furbank (c)
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison
4 Temo Mayanavanua
5 Alex Coles
6 Courtney Lawes
7 Tom Pearson
8 Sam Graham

Replacements:
16 Sam Matavesi
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Alex Moon
20 Juarno Augustus
21 Angus Scott-Young
22 Tom James
23 Tom Litchfield

BAYONNE TEAM:
15 Aurélien Florian Callandret, 14 Nadir Megdoud, 13 Cheikh Tiberghien, 12 Eneriko Buliruarua, 11 Remy Baget, 10 Thomas Dolhagaray, 9 Maxime Machenaud; 1 Swan Cormenier, 2 Facundo Bosch, 3 Tevita Tatafu, 4 Denis Marchois (c), 5 Manuel Leindekar, 6 Rémi Bourdeau, 7 Baptiste Heguy, 8 Rodrigo Bruni (Back row).

Replacements: 16 Vincent Giudicelli, 17 Mathis Perchaud, 18 Pascal Cotet, 19 Lucas Paulos, 20 Uzair Cassiem, 21 Kléo Labarbe, 22 Tom Spring, 23 Yan Lestrade.

This is indeed a good Saints team!  The Bayonne pack is pretty good so match 'em up front and let everyone else take them to the cleaners.  

Mr. Dowson et al, please don't mess up my Friday afternoon.

Considering the rotation from Bayonne on the road and that Saints team I'd expect a pretty routine win.

Ludlam is the only major absentee I can see from a full strength Saints 23 there?

Paul Hill would likely be on the bench if fit but Millar-Mills has been having a decent season to be fair. If we're really getting picky then one of the other outside backs might get that bench spot ahead of Litchfield. Hendy in particular looks a real talent. Litchfield is again very highly rated though.

The only difference I'd expect to a full strength starting XV for a final would be Luds coming in for Graham and Moon/Mayanavanua switching their bench/starting roles. That certainly looks like a nailed on starting back line if all were available?

It's a remarkable bill of health for this point in the season either way.

king_carlos wrote:Considering the rotation from Bayonne on the road and that Saints team I'd expect a pretty routine win.

Ludlam is the only major absentee I can see from a full strength Saints 23 there?

Paul Hill would likely be on the bench if fit but Millar-Mills has been having a decent season to be fair. If we're really getting picky then one of the other outside backs might get that bench spot ahead of Litchfield. Hendy in particular looks a real talent. Litchfield is again very highly rated though.

The only difference I'd expect to a full strength starting XV for a final would be Luds coming in for Graham and Moon/Mayanavanua switching their bench/starting roles. That certainly looks like a nailed on starting back line if all were available?

It's a remarkable bill of health for this point in the season either way.

From the 23 for tonight, we are missing either Ramm or Hendy on the wing, Freeman would currently be 1st choice 13 with Dingwall at 12.

Odendaal, would be a possible, Hill probable. If the bench was 5:3, Hutchinson probably benched, with a 6:2 and Freeman at 13, out of the 23.

A fully fit Augustus, might swap with Graham.

Saints are getting a very good squad pack together, 7/8 dependable props, 2 good hookers, 4 /5 good locks, 6 good back row. Bit thinner in the backs, 2 good 9s, 1.5 (Furbank .5) at 10, 4 centres, 4 wings and 2 fullbacks, with a lot of players that can fit into multiple positions at a good level.

Does anyone think that Davison might get a recall, he has been solid all season and can play either side

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Saints have named a pretty strong side for the visit of Bayonne tomorrow night, can Furbank keep his record of having won every game in which he has captained the side?

15 George Furbank (c)
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison
4 Temo Mayanavanua
5 Alex Coles
6 Courtney Lawes
7 Tom Pearson
8 Sam Graham

Replacements:
16 Sam Matavesi
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Alex Moon
20 Juarno Augustus
21 Angus Scott-Young
22 Tom James
23 Tom Litchfield

BAYONNE TEAM:
15 Aurélien Florian Callandret, 14 Nadir Megdoud, 13 Cheikh Tiberghien, 12 Eneriko Buliruarua, 11 Remy Baget, 10 Thomas Dolhagaray, 9 Maxime Machenaud; 1 Swan Cormenier, 2 Facundo Bosch, 3 Tevita Tatafu, 4 Denis Marchois (c), 5 Manuel Leindekar, 6 Rémi Bourdeau, 7 Baptiste Heguy, 8 Rodrigo Bruni (Back row).

Replacements: 16 Vincent Giudicelli, 17 Mathis Perchaud, 18 Pascal Cotet, 19 Lucas Paulos, 20 Uzair Cassiem, 21 Kléo Labarbe, 22 Tom Spring, 23 Yan Lestrade.

Really enjoying the name of the Bayonne Fullback. 10/10, hope he's very good.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Considering the rotation from Bayonne on the road and that Saints team I'd expect a pretty routine win.

Ludlam is the only major absentee I can see from a full strength Saints 23 there?

Paul Hill would likely be on the bench if fit but Millar-Mills has been having a decent season to be fair. If we're really getting picky then one of the other outside backs might get that bench spot ahead of Litchfield. Hendy in particular looks a real talent. Litchfield is again very highly rated though.

The only difference I'd expect to a full strength starting XV for a final would be Luds coming in for Graham and Moon/Mayanavanua switching their bench/starting roles. That certainly looks like a nailed on starting back line if all were available?

It's a remarkable bill of health for this point in the season either way.

From the 23 for tonight, we are missing either Ramm or Hendy on the wing, Freeman would currently be 1st choice 13 with Dingwall at 12.

Odendaal, would be a possible, Hill probable. If the bench was 5:3, Hutchinson probably benched, with a 6:2 and Freeman at 13, out of the 23.

A fully fit Augustus, might swap with Graham.

Saints are getting a very good squad pack together, 7/8 dependable props, 2 good hookers, 4 /5 good locks, 6 good back row. Bit thinner in the backs, 2 good 9s, 1.5 (Furbank .5) at 10, 4 centres, 4 wings and 2 fullbacks, with a lot of players that can fit into multiple positions at a good level.

Does anyone think that Davison might get a recall, he has been solid all season and can play either side

Fair enough on Freeman at centre, then the wings. I presumed that he'd revert back to 14 at full strength. I really rate Freeman at 13 though so I wouldn't be upset by him being Saints first choice there.

If Ludlam were fit do you not think he'd be the direct swap at 8 for Graham with Lawes and Pearson still on the flanks?

I wouldn't look at Davison personally. Not that I don't rate him. He's rock solid at Prem level, but, props who are solid scrummagers at club level don't often translate to being that at the step up. I struggle to see him being better at scrum time against international opponents than the current iteration of Sinckler or the inconsistent Stuart for instance. Whilst he offers less in the loose.

It's similar to a discussion had after the SF loss to the Boks. I think someone suggested that had McIntyre and Balmain been the bench props England wouldn't have lost. Which IMO is a serious overegging of scrummaging at club level. At the end of the day props who sometimes struggle in international scrums tend to be strong there at club level. The Sarries scrum with Mako was very good when he was at his best. Sinckler, Stuart and Genge are all very good scrummagers at club level. Facing Porter/Furlong or Baille/Antonio etc is just a different game.

Tramptastic wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Saints have named a pretty strong side for the visit of Bayonne tomorrow night, can Furbank keep his record of having won every game in which he has captained the side?

15 George Furbank (c)
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison
4 Temo Mayanavanua
5 Alex Coles
6 Courtney Lawes
7 Tom Pearson
8 Sam Graham

Replacements:
16 Sam Matavesi
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Alex Moon
20 Juarno Augustus
21 Angus Scott-Young
22 Tom James
23 Tom Litchfield

BAYONNE TEAM:
15 Aurélien Florian Callandret, 14 Nadir Megdoud, 13 Cheikh Tiberghien, 12 Eneriko Buliruarua, 11 Remy Baget, 10 Thomas Dolhagaray, 9 Maxime Machenaud; 1 Swan Cormenier, 2 Facundo Bosch, 3 Tevita Tatafu, 4 Denis Marchois (c), 5 Manuel Leindekar, 6 Rémi Bourdeau, 7 Baptiste Heguy, 8 Rodrigo Bruni (Back row).

Replacements: 16 Vincent Giudicelli, 17 Mathis Perchaud, 18 Pascal Cotet, 19 Lucas Paulos, 20 Uzair Cassiem, 21 Kléo Labarbe, 22 Tom Spring, 23 Yan Lestrade.

Really enjoying the name of the Bayonne Fullback. 10/10, hope he's very good.

It's a decent name but I'm yet to see anything that tops Lovejoy Chawatama. That's elite.

king_carlos wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Considering the rotation from Bayonne on the road and that Saints team I'd expect a pretty routine win.

Ludlam is the only major absentee I can see from a full strength Saints 23 there?

Paul Hill would likely be on the bench if fit but Millar-Mills has been having a decent season to be fair. If we're really getting picky then one of the other outside backs might get that bench spot ahead of Litchfield. Hendy in particular looks a real talent. Litchfield is again very highly rated though.

The only difference I'd expect to a full strength starting XV for a final would be Luds coming in for Graham and Moon/Mayanavanua switching their bench/starting roles. That certainly looks like a nailed on starting back line if all were available?

It's a remarkable bill of health for this point in the season either way.

From the 23 for tonight, we are missing either Ramm or Hendy on the wing, Freeman would currently be 1st choice 13 with Dingwall at 12.

Odendaal, would be a possible, Hill probable. If the bench was 5:3, Hutchinson probably benched, with a 6:2 and Freeman at 13, out of the 23.

A fully fit Augustus, might swap with Graham.

Saints are getting a very good squad pack together, 7/8 dependable props, 2 good hookers, 4 /5 good locks, 6 good back row. Bit thinner in the backs, 2 good 9s, 1.5 (Furbank .5) at 10, 4 centres, 4 wings and 2 fullbacks, with a lot of players that can fit into multiple positions at a good level.

Does anyone think that Davison might get a recall, he has been solid all season and can play either side

Fair enough on Freeman at centre, then the wings. I presumed that he'd revert back to 14 at full strength. I really rate Freeman at 13 though so I wouldn't be upset by him being Saints first choice there.

If Ludlam were fit do you not think he'd be the direct swap at 8 for Graham with Lawes and Pearson still on the flanks?

I wouldn't look at Davison personally. Not that I don't rate him. He's rock solid at Prem level, but, props who are solid scrummagers at club level don't often translate to being that at the step up. I struggle to see him being better at scrum time against international opponents than the current iteration of Sinckler or the inconsistent Stuart for instance. Whilst he offers less in the loose.

It's similar to a discussion had after the SF loss to the Boks. I think someone suggested that had McIntyre and Balmain been the bench props England wouldn't have lost. Which IMO is a serious overegging of scrummaging at club level. At the end of the day props who sometimes struggle in international scrums tend to be strong there at club level. The Sarries scrum with Mako was very good when he was at his best. Sinckler, Stuart and Genge are all very good scrummagers at club level. Facing Porter/Furlong or Baille/Antonio etc is just a different game.

My personal choice at 8 would be Augustus, but you can perm any three from that 6 and you will still have a very very good back row.

I think that centre is the preferred position, he was playing there when they still had a full compliment of centres, with Hutchinson, Dingwall, Litchfield available. Saints losing three wingers in one game has made that a problem, he still manages to get into that 13 channel though and suck in the defence with his power.

Quins v Cardiff
Starting XV:
1. Fin Baxter (39)
2. Jack Walker (52)
3. Will Collier (231)
4. Joe Launchbury (14)
5. George Hammond (54)
6. James Chisholm (145)
7. Will Evans (78)
8. Alex Dombrandt (128 - Captain)
9. Danny Care (366)
10. Marcus Smith (149)
11. Cameron Anderson (5)
12. Andre Esterhuizen (79)
13. Oscar Beard (44)
14. Nick David (45)
15. Tyrone Green (64)
Impact Players:
16. Nathan Jibulu (12)
17. Jordan Els (33)
18. Dillon Lewis (9)
19. Irne Herbst (35)
20. Chandler Cunningham-South (9)
21. Will Porter (14)
22. Lennox Anyanwu (19)
23. Louis Lynagh (55)

Not a bad side considering we have 10 XXIII contenders injured.

And a fairly unfamiliar-looking Cardiff squad:
Cardiff Rugby: Cam Winnett; Harri Millard, Rey Lee-Lo, Willis Halaholo, Mason Grady; Tinus de Beer, Tomos Williams; Rhys Carré, Liam Belcher, Keiron Assiratti, Teddy Williams, Seb Davies, Alex Mann, Thomas Young, James Botham.

Replacements: Efan Daniel, Corey Domachowski, Rhys Litterick, Rory Thornton, Mackenzie Martin, Ellis Bevan, Ben Thomas, Owen Lane

king_carlos wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Saints have named a pretty strong side for the visit of Bayonne tomorrow night, can Furbank keep his record of having won every game in which he has captained the side?

15 George Furbank (c)
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Fraser Dingwall
12 Rory Hutchinson
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell

1 Alex Waller
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison
4 Temo Mayanavanua
5 Alex Coles
6 Courtney Lawes
7 Tom Pearson
8 Sam Graham

Replacements:
16 Sam Matavesi
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Alex Moon
20 Juarno Augustus
21 Angus Scott-Young
22 Tom James
23 Tom Litchfield

BAYONNE TEAM:
15 Aurélien Florian Callandret, 14 Nadir Megdoud, 13 Cheikh Tiberghien, 12 Eneriko Buliruarua, 11 Remy Baget, 10 Thomas Dolhagaray, 9 Maxime Machenaud; 1 Swan Cormenier, 2 Facundo Bosch, 3 Tevita Tatafu, 4 Denis Marchois (c), 5 Manuel Leindekar, 6 Rémi Bourdeau, 7 Baptiste Heguy, 8 Rodrigo Bruni (Back row).

Replacements: 16 Vincent Giudicelli, 17 Mathis Perchaud, 18 Pascal Cotet, 19 Lucas Paulos, 20 Uzair Cassiem, 21 Kléo Labarbe, 22 Tom Spring, 23 Yan Lestrade.

Really enjoying the name of the Bayonne Fullback. 10/10, hope he's very good.

It's a decent name but I'm yet to see anything that tops Lovejoy Chawatama. That's elite.

I just look forward to the commentators stumbling over the name in the midst of a lot of action.

I remember watching an Oxford vs Cambridge match yonks ago now, and one of the players had the surname Guinness-King.

For Bayonne, their back up scrum half is Kléo Labarbe, and he is just a kid at 19 or 20. And not many games with the club. Machenaud is usually a pain to play, is really a good player and despite being 35 or so, will probably go most of the way.

But if Labarbe comes on, I would like our flankers to introduce themselves to him in a thoroughly professional manner befitting the importance of the match.

This could get gruesome for Bayonne...

Cumbrian wrote:This could get gruesome for Bayonne...

It's a proper mauling isn't it.

Point a minute at the moment

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:This could get gruesome for Bayonne...

It's a proper mauling isn't it.

Yeah baby. A proper orgasmic mauling.

Freeman is looking very good, but it is like Bayonne are paid extras in a highlights video...

That is is very poor, this is going to be an absolute cricket score.

I was looking forward to this, but it just isn't a contest. I expected Northampton to win, but Bayonne have been diabolical, there has been absolutely no commitment. It's how I imagine people feel when they are playing Newcastle.

Ospreys winning 8-0, due to a breakaway try right on halftime. If I am honest, it is not the most engaging of games.

The Saints score is unreal.

Cumbrian wrote:I was looking forward to this, but it just isn't a contest.   I expected Northampton to win, but Bayonne have been diabolical, there has been absolutely no commitment.  It's how I imagine people feel when they are playing Newcastle.  

I think most players during playing careers have been on both sides of scores like this. No one likes being on the south side of a score like this. But to be fair, most players on the team scoring all the points know how the other guys feel. And unless there is some animus involved, just want the game to end quickly without any injuries.

Now, if we do this to Munster next week, then you will probably see the fireworks I will be setting off all the way from here.....

doctor_grey wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:I was looking forward to this, but it just isn't a contest.   I expected Northampton to win, but Bayonne have been diabolical, there has been absolutely no commitment.  It's how I imagine people feel when they are playing Newcastle.  

I think most players during playing careers have been on both sides of scores like this.  No one likes being on the south side of a score like this.  But to be fair, most players on the team scoring all the points know how the other guys feel.  And unless there is some animus involved, just want the game to end quickly without any injuries.  

Now, if we do this to Munster next week, then you will probably see the fireworks I will be setting off all the way from here.....

To be fair, after the first three games you don't really need to go after the win at Thomond (which might take the pressure off?). It will be exciting to see Saints go there (hopefully) fully loaded with an attitude like tonight.

All but one try by forwards, does that reflect on forward dominance?

Some performance by Saints....A few Ebgland squad call ups I think.

But Pearson...ah a horrendous missed tackle...can't miss them Tom.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:All but one try by forwards, does that reflect on forward dominance?

Well it's total dominance. But Saints have morphed into a much more balanced team whilst not giving up much in attack. In fact, Saints forwards as a group are probably the best ball handling group of forwards in Europe.

What happened in the Benetton game, Geordie? Did Newcastle put out a weakened team or were Benetton just sh*t hot?! Because they have been much better the last couple of years….. but I didn’t think they were that good!

doctor_grey wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:All but one try by forwards, does that reflect on forward dominance?

Well it's total dominance.  But Saints have morphed into a much more balanced team whilst not giving up much in attack.  In fact, Saints forwards as a group are probably the best ball handling group of forwards in Europe.  

Finally hired a competent defence coach. I'll be really worried if they then go and find a decent scrum coach.

Credit to the Ospreys in the second half, coping with their injuries tonight as well as what they already have. Booth has got some character in that squad.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:All but one try by forwards, does that reflect on forward dominance?

Well it's total dominance.  But Saints have morphed into a much more balanced team whilst not giving up much in attack.  In fact, Saints forwards as a group are probably the best ball handling group of forwards in Europe.  

Finally hired a competent defence coach. I'll be really worried if they then go and find a decent scrum coach.

Small steps, mate. Small steps. This is Dowson's second year at the helm. First season without the spectre of Boyd hanging around his neck. I think he deserves a lot of credit because he made the decision to change Saints playing style. And, I think, having played flanker, he understands a more balanced attack is needed. And then, yes, he brought in a better defense coach.

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:All but one try by forwards, does that reflect on forward dominance?

Well it's total dominance.  But Saints have morphed into a much more balanced team whilst not giving up much in attack.  In fact, Saints forwards as a group are probably the best ball handling group of forwards in Europe.  

Finally hired a competent defence coach. I'll be really worried if they then go and find a decent scrum coach.

Small steps, mate.  Small steps.  This is Dowson's second year at the helm.  First season without the spectre of Boyd hanging around his neck.  I think he deserves a lot of credit because he made the decision to change Saints playing style.  And, I think, having played flanker, he understands a more balanced attack is needed.  And then, yes, he brought in a better defense coach.  

The elevation of Vesty to head coach also helps. I know he's generally considered the best EQ attack coach going and one of the best in the NH but he also came through the Tigers academy and played in the first team with some of the greats. You can definitely see that this season with some of the more pragmatic play, particularly from Fin Smith. Saints still can attack from everywhere but they also use the threat of attacking from everywhere to pull up the backfield cover and then kick into space, a favoured tactic of a lot of good teams. Fin Smith has really come on with the tactical aspects and some of those low kicks and grubbers are straight out of the Sam Vesty playbook. It was noticeable yesterday how they used their kicking game to pin Bayonne in their half. There's a lot more to Saints backline now than just the fancy stuff.

Dowson's finger prints are on that pack, you're right. They're more aggressive. The lineout is better and the forwards more aggressive. The new defence coach with the new line speed and better tackle technique dovetails nicely. A few if the players look slightly bulkier this year as well which goes well with the additional physicality.

Saints have gone from being a decent side to a very good one. The scrum is the only serious weakness remaining, that and the tendency to concede a number of penalties on the bounce under pressure but a lot of sides do that.

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:What happened in the Benetton game, Geordie? Did Newcastle put out a weakened team or were Benetton just sh*t hot?! Because they have been much better the last couple of years….. but I didn’t think they were that good!

It looks like it was Falcons' premier team but they are struggling this season. Benetton have a stacked team and are in 2nd place in the URC, no easy feat - I don't think they'll get any silverware this season though due to the abundance of good French teams.

My French is non existent but red for the tmo?

Seemed to be that way. The Scottish commentators were baying for blood as well but I think yellow is correct. Weir dips into the contact and effectively initiates by leading with the ball/forearm. Hopefully Weir is ok. It was a very brave attempt to knock back a far bigger man.

It was close like. Nearer red for me. Exeter are tending to go into tackles pretty upright.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It was close like. Nearer red for me. Exeter are tending to go into tackles pretty upright.

Both sides are. The Glasgow replacement 10 nearly went to the bin himself for that no arms shot on Tuima. That was reckless.

Not red for me because it's an absorbing tackle, his knees are bent and Weir initiates the contact. Fisilau does need to bend a lot more at the waist as it might have gone red on another day.

Hammersley has had a game to forget so far.

At key moments Exeter just look hurried.

Scrum looks nice though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Scrum looks nice though.

Ref isn't providing much reward at scrum time though they've managed to finally bash their way over. Glasgow perhaps lucky to have conceded just the warning and not a card.

Both sides a little profligate at Sandy Park, but the Exeter try just before halftime sets up the second half. Exeter could do with adding some subtlety in the 22 at times, if the bash-bash doesn't work they seem to run out of steam/ ideas.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Scrum looks nice though.

Ref isn't providing much reward at scrum time though they've managed to finally bash their way over. Glasgow perhaps lucky to have conceded just the warning and not a card.

Probably as it was mixture of scrum offences and offsides. They carry that into the second half tho so Glashow won't want to start slow.