England's Winter of Cricket 2023/24

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I haven't seen a ball from today. Not sure I want to seeing the scorecard.

I woke up early for work, checked the score, saw the collapse, felt sad. Then didn't look again until after close.

It all looked so promising for a moment.

Seems the Curse of the Six Hitter has struck again. Hartley lofts one over mid on and then falls lbw...

But no ! Drs to the rescue with a little edge ... England's drs luck changing ?

Was going to say similar about Foakes. He might not be lighting up the scorecard, but he has saved England from total collapse today, and he provided valuable support to Pope in Hyderabad, without which the first test wouldn't have been won.

I think England have had two century stands in this series, both involving Foakes.

That's the type.of delivery that jaffa, peach is reserved for reversing outswinger clean bowls a LHB
India's seamers take pitch put of equation even when help for spinners is minimal

Eng faces risk of Siraj now running thru lower order

Nice piece of bowling from Siraj to knock over Hartley now...

Think both sides have been sensible in choosing two seamers for this one. Spinners may well be key in second innings but there's been a bit there for the pace men today...early life , reverse later , bit of uneven bounce.

Root might need to get a bit more of the strike now.

Duty281 wrote:Was going to say similar about Foakes. He might not be lighting up the scorecard, but he has saved England from total collapse today, and he provided valuable support to Pope in Hyderabad, without which the first test wouldn't have been won.

As so often - ifs, maybes and buts ...
but if Foakes had batted at number 5 (as he often does at Surrey) and maybe still put on 113 with Root but for the 4th wicket, how good would it be for Bairstow to then be walking to the crease with Stokes still to follow?

Just seen a remarkable stat. Since Stokes took over , England have had 85 fifty plus partnerships. And the one just completed was the first time any of them was scored at less than three per over ...

No complaints about today of course. But it does indicate batting hasn't been quite as easy as one might think , even after that first session. Root is a busy player at any time but he's a modest 82 from 199 balls. And showing no signs of launching into full attack mode even now.

252/7 isn't awful. But they'd love another fifty...

guildford with the hypotheticals there

I get that Foakes bats at five at The Oval . Not sure he'd have been able to play today's innings if he'd been in at 56/3 in the first session today though. I reckon the order has actually worked quite well for England today and they're on for a decent first innings score - though how that works out for them will depend a lot on how they bowl to India tomorrow. So far it's been 400s all the way and they won't want that to continue...

I see India's loss of all three referalls has cost them with that lbw call against Robinson...unless there was an edge that would have been out. England need to note for later !

Root still patient as he nears the magic three figures... 95 from 213 must be one of his slowest innings but it's been a vital one for England ...

Robinson survived a plumb lbw off jaddu

Akash needs to start outside off

alfie wrote:guildford with the hypotheticals there

I get that Foakes bats at five at The Oval . Not sure he'd have been able to play today's innings if he'd been in at 56/3 in the first session today though. I reckon the order has actually worked quite well for England today and they're on for a decent first innings score - though how that works out for them will depend a lot on how they bowl to India tomorrow. So far it's been 400s all the way and they won't want that to continue...

Hi Alfie - yeah, as you suggest, I'm more just lobbing in hypotheticals than strongly advocating something.

I would say though that Foakes batting at 7 and more likely to be with the tail isn't great for him or the tail. That of coure doesn't mean there's a better alternative.

Real Root emerges as he rids himself of the ghosts of bazballing

Hundred for Joe

Look of relief on his face more than triumph. This one means plenty to him after his troubles on this trip...and a vital one for his team. His mates on the balcony are doing enough celebrating for him anyway...

279/7

Great century for Root in difficult circumstances, both personal and pitch related. First one since Birmingham, and he's got Robinson there again...but no dumb declarations this time!

It's given England a chance in this one.

Duty281 wrote:Great century for Root in difficult circumstances, both personal and pitch related. First one since Birmingham, and he's got Robinson there again...but no dumb declarations this time!

It's given England a chance in this one.

Yes, great work and a great century.

Sensible play from Robinson although, as mentioned by others above, he's had a bit of luck with India being reckless with their reviews.

alfie wrote:Nice piece of bowling from Siraj to knock over Hartley now...

Think both sides have been sensible in choosing two seamers for this one. Spinners may well be key in second innings but there's been a bit there for the pace men today...early life ,  reverse later , bit of uneven bounce.

Root might need to get a bit more of the strike now.

Going back a bit, that was tasty bowling. I rather like Siraj - bit of Starc about him. Goes for a few but can get a few.

When Root got to his hundred, Swann praised him but then said he was ''only half-way there''. I appreciate the need to go on but that struck me as idiotically optimistic!

Haha as you say , guildford, it is hard to get everything perfect. One can in theory of course vary the batting order to suit the situation ; but it's rare that you can be sure it is the right time to do so ...until you have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight

I actually think today things "worked" : not perfectly ; but probably as well as might be expected. Bairstow's rapid innings - though cut off earlier than desired - both paused India's initial onslaught, and just as importantly enabled Root to settle into his own desired tempo. And Foakes joining Root at lunch in playing conservatively but with intent in the middle session served to wear down the bowlers ...which is paying off late in the day now for Robinson. At 294/7 , reckon England are thinking "I'd have taken this at 57/3".

alfie wrote:Just seen a remarkable stat. Since Stokes took over , England have had 85 fifty plus partnerships. And the one just completed was the first time any of them was scored at less than three per over ...

No complaints about today of course.  But it does indicate batting hasn't been quite as easy as one might think , even after that first session. Root is a busy player at any time but he's a modest 82 from 199 balls. And showing no signs of launching into full attack mode even now.

252/7 isn't awful. But they'd love another fifty...

Interesting as you say, Alfie. I haven't seen that stat but my gut feel is that many of those fifty plus partnerships have been overly breezy with not enough being converted to three figures.

The pitch has died in the 3rd session.
ball is spinning but so slow that even a lower order batter like Robinson could keep out the ones that kept really low.

Kumble asked Jaiswal to bowl some ...and here he did some.....he gives it a ripp...and if he practices to land it further up he could be handy part timer.

shared day, India slightly ahead IMO.....under 350 I would still put it as India nose ahead, on a dead flat pitch

Agree it's probably about even. As England supporters we're conditioned to think of 300 as a decent score, because at home that often is. But away to Australia and India there's been a lot of matches where England put up 350-400 but then face 600 in response, with likes of the Marshes and Nair (not sure whatever happened to him) making large scores.

Enthralling day's cricket. More than a few challenges and fluctuations. Some seriously good use of ball, bat and brain.

Already looking forward to tomorrow ....

Seems like the pitch maybe calmed down a touch after the morning session? Excellent return to form from Root with some very good contributions. England noses maybe just ahead but will need some more tomorrow morning I'd think.

Just looked up the Nair and M Marsh matches. England made 477 in the first one and lost by an innings, made just over 400 in the second and lost by an innings. Not saying it will happen again, but shows how a seemingly decent score can end up being woefully short

VTR wrote:Just looked up the Nair and M Marsh matches. England made 477 in the first one and lost by an innings, made just over 400 in the second and lost by an innings. Not saying it will happen again, but shows how a seemingly decent score can end up being woefully short

This game has making of a draw....given that the pitch has gone so slow and easy......and even if it turns and keeps low on D5, it will give batters time to adjust
Eng should be able to get to 375i-400ish from here if Root stay until the end.....it' easy fro the tailenders to keep balls out.
Ind were actually lucky to have a 5-fer session due to slight dampness and Eng's extra cavalier batting...else 500 was for the taking for Eng also.

India should be able to get 500+ and push towards 600ish......and then if Eng bats sensibly for 4 and a half sessions a draw is quite possible.
Off-course the game could twist and turn in many ways...but for the first time draw is appearing to be a tangible scenario in the series

guildfordbat wrote:When Root got to his hundred, Swann praised him but then said he was ''only half-way there''. I appreciate the need to go on but that struck me as idiotically optimistic!

It struck me as livin' on a prayer.

I'd put England narrowly ahead. Runs on the board + India having to bat last. Important that Root and Robinson continue their battle. They should be looking to get England over 350. But if England get rolled in the 310s tomorrow, the advantage is back with India. Bashir and Anderson, both 11s, whatever they get with the bat is a bonus.

I'm not sure how kind the pitch is to bat on. Balls keeping low on day one is usually an indicator that it'll be very tough from day 3/4 onward.

It was good to see England grit it out today. I just hope it's a constant improvement, not a one-off. A bit of grit from Foakes/Ahmed/Hartley assisted Pope in getting England to a winning third innings score in Hyderabad, then in the last test England just gave it away from a promising position. Today, England down to 112/5, but they didn't get rolled for 150, they dug in with a patient partnership. Sometimes it's right for fireworks; other times there has to be fight and an acceptance that playing shots will only end one way. It's test cricket for a reason.

Fantastic to see Root get his first ton since the very first innings of the Ashes. He's got out to some pretty crap shots during his barren run. He put it all away today for a century at below a 50SR - very unusual for Root, but a sign of his enduring class and ability. He toughed it out and wouldn't yield. The old Anglo-Saxon virtue.

Rehan's absence is a curious one. Forgive me if I'm out of line, but it seems rather coincidental that he had an 'urgent family matter' barely hours after the news that he had been dropped. I hope there hasn't been an unpleasant argument in camp. English football fans might remember during the last World Cup that Ben White was suddenly announced to be leaving the squad, during the tournament, for personal reasons, only for it to be later revealed that he had a sizable falling out with a member of the coaching staff.

Duty281 wrote:
Rehan's absence is a curious one. Forgive me if I'm out of line, but it seems rather coincidental that he had an 'urgent family matter' barely hours after the news that he had been dropped. I hope there hasn't been an unpleasant argument in camp. English football fans might remember during the last World Cup that Ben White was suddenly announced to be leaving the squad, during the tournament, for personal reasons, only for it to be later revealed that he had a sizable falling out with a member of the coaching staff.

I had similar thoughts, sent back on disciplinary grounds

Reckon England may be slightly ahead on the day - though that rather depends on how they can do with the ball tomorrow . India obviously will want to bat big first innings , as despite KP_fan's prediction that the pitch will remain fairly easy I'm not convinced : too many balls keeping low on day one suggests to me batting late in the game will be no picnic. But guess we will see in time...

I won't see a lot of tomorrow as playing myself after another period out with injury , so will hope to tune in some time after lunch and see Stokes & co stringing a few good sessions together for a change...

I could actually see KP Fans scenario, other than the England batting 4 sessions part. I reckon give this England team that kind of assignment and they won't last even 3 sessions. Just can't imagine most of them trying to dead bat for entire sessions at a time

Might even see Stokes bowling tomorrow!

Root's 31st test century today, and it is (so far) his slowest scoring innings of 100+. His 153 in the West Indies in 2022 was the only other 100+ innings where he scored at a SR of below 50.

It was Root's 13th overseas ton, a little short of Cook's 17 away centuries.

I don't think the pitch is as lively as England made it look in the first session, similarly I don't think it is as dead as Root, supported by Foakes/Robinson made it look either in the last session.

I would say England have wrestled themselves to around parity, and certainly into the contest - which looked in doubt at 112/5. But, India will certainly fancy a first innings lead you'd think, unless Root/Robinson do something ridiculous tomorrow and get England over 400...

Great knock by Root - put away the sweep which seemed to be a conscious thing based on the pitch, and got a much deserved hundred. Well supported by Bairstow initially (shame he didn't put the sweep away, but a good counter attack I think) and then Foakes who played well, but I think will be quite disappointed to not have kicked on and made a substantial score - I thought it was a fairly soft dismissal after getting himself set like he was.

Robinson, as mentioned in my pre-match post, is a handy bat (surprised he was below Hartley tbh) - and played a good hand. England need him to stick with Root a bit more in the morning ideally, but he's more than done a job so far.

Feels evenly poised to me, maybe India slightly ahead by vantage of superior bowlers/home conditions. But as many have noted, I wouldn't want to be batting last on this chasing 150-200, so first innings runs for them will be crucial

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I don't think the pitch is as lively as England made it look in the first session, similarly I don't think it is as dead as Root, supported by Foakes/Robinson made it look either in the last session.

I would say England have wrestled themselves to around parity, and certainly into the contest - which looked in doubt at 112/5. But, India will certainly fancy a first innings lead you'd think, unless Root/Robinson do something ridiculous tomorrow and get England over 400...

Great knock by Root - put away the sweep which seemed to be a conscious thing based on the pitch, and got a much deserved hundred. Well supported by Bairstow initially (shame he didn't put the sweep away, but a good counter attack I think) and then Foakes who played well, but I think will be quite disappointed to not have kicked on and made a substantial score - I thought it was a fairly soft dismissal after getting himself set like he was.

Robinson, as mentioned in my pre-match post, is a handy bat (surprised he was below Hartley tbh) - and played a good hand. England need him to stick with Root a bit more in the morning ideally, but he's more than done a job so far.

Feels evenly poised to me, maybe India slightly ahead by vantage of superior bowlers/home conditions. But as many have noted, I wouldn't want to be batting last on this chasing 150-200, so first innings runs for them will be crucial

Hi Olly - yep, Robinson should be a handy bat but has rarely delivered in Tests. He made a valuable 42 on debut against NZ but has never reached 40 again. Before today, he was averaging 13.5 from 31 innings with 6 ducks. Meanwhile, Hartley has probably overperformed so far with the bat in his debut series; to the extent, he was averaging a tad above 23 at the start of the day. For me, we had two decent number 9s but not really a convincing number 8 (not that Rehan proved himself there). Either could have gone in before the other imo although, as you say, Robinson ended up playing a good and the better hand.

As Duty posted above, our tail is not aided by Bashir and Anderson both being number 11s. Momentarily returning to my wittering yesterday, it would be better - at least from a batting perspective - to see Wood walking to the crease at number 10 to biff a quick 30. Mind you, Alfie seems confident Anderson could hammer another 80 against India. Possibly misrepresenting him there.

As to where we are now, I don't disagree with what you say but, as Carlos would expect, will wait to see how our hosts bat when their time comes tomorrow. As so often, things could change and develop very quickly. An early wicket apiece for Jimmy and Robbo and we're nicely on top. However, the extreme alternative version (the stuff of Carlos' nightmares) is Robinson pulls up with cramp in his fifth over and Stokes' knee gives way after a couple of deliveries whilst Bashir goes for 35 in his first three overs! All to play for ....

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I don't think the pitch is as lively as England made it look in the first session, similarly I don't think it is as dead as Root, supported by Foakes/Robinson made it look either in the last session.

It's hard to judge. It was turning but it looked slow in the afternoon and evening. If that's the case with the Indian spin trio, then Hartley and Bashir are likely to look more so.

The pitch map showing Root's interception points was really interesting. Almost everything straight he was forward to regardless of length. Which may have made the inconsistent bounce look easier to face but we won't know until India bat. Root and Foakes both played back a lot to the spin as well, which may have contributed to it looking slower. Robinson seemed pretty comfortable planting his front pad down the track and defending it back at the end though.

The morning looked really tough against the seamers with the new ball. If the pitch is getting slower will that be the case for Jimmy and Robinson though? There can certainly be an element of Indian pitches looking that bit lively first thing when there's still some moisture there. Once the sun has been beating down on the track for a day it's suddenly very different.

My instinct is that England need closer to 400 than 350. That would require Root adding another 50 or 60 at least.

king_carlos wrote: ...
...

My instinct is that England need closer to 400 than 350. That would require Root adding another 50 or 60 at least.

And of course others to stay with him whilst he does.

Very interesting day of cricket.
India though should be disappointed that they let England off the hook after reducing them to 112-5 and 225-6. Mistake from umpire Kumar Dharmasena and their reckless reviewing stopped them from taking out Robinson, and possibly bowl England out as Anderson and Bashir aren't among the topmost in that batting lineup...
Bloody Joe couldn't wait for the series to end to get his senses back on track, and here he is, tormenting India yet again. Now has the most hundreds against India by any test batters. It was noticeable that he virtually locked away the sweep shots, and didn't slog like some tailender even when the side was 7 down.
Think England got the balance right with Bazall approach. Don't think Crawley or even for that matter Bairstow, could have scored as much as they did by playing Root-like cricket. Bairstow could though, have learned from Root and kept away the sweep shot, this isn't the best track for sweeping... So, not just a failure of execution for him, it wass a poor shot to start with.
Foakes played a perfect supporting innings, would be disappointed he didn't make it a big one. He's not going to get too many chances when Brook comes back, so it is important he takes his chances when he gets those.

As for India, I was so happy to see them pick Akash Deep and not stick to mukesh Kumar. I was happier to see Akash bowling the way he did. primarily bowls inswing and does it so well. And he can generate a bit more pace than expected, though in striving for that extra half-a-yard, he did struggled with a few no-balls. Hopefully, he'll have the chance to work with someone like Bharat Arun, can probably consistently operate in the late 130s and early 140s with some work...
Siraj too, despite going for a few, bowled well. Felt Kuldeep was a touch underbowled and unsmartly used. Should have bowled a bit more when he didn't get a chance, need not have bowled as much when he did.
R Ashwin surely hasn't been at his absolute best in the series as KPF observed. I am sure there is a bit more left in the tank and the ever experimenting bowling scientist that he is, will find the best way to utilize what more he's left with. Hope he does it as soon as this test itself. This has to be his least impactful home series after that England series of 2012... There he scored good runs, and had 5fors too. The 37 last game was significant, and he did have his moments with the ball in the first 2 tests. But Ashwin is yet to deliver a big performance in the series.

I won't call it a draw pitch as yet, but in the latter half of the day, even when there was spin, it was pretty slow. If it goes lower and slower, Draw is very much possible. Akash and Siraj ensured they didn't make the team feel Bumrah's absence, time for the spinners and batters to step up. India will have to try and restrict England below 350 and then try to bat big and bat once.
As for England, if they get close to 400, you never know, this inexperienced batting lineup might really feel the pressure... With Root still there, 400 isn't beyond them on a slow track...
Lets see what the new ball can do tomorrow...

Eng fought back well thru 2x100 partnerships.

And score looks respectable..but the way pitch has flattened and slowed its about 100 runs below par.
If the 10 and 11 could hold the bat and score 10 to 15 each , stitch partnerships with Root, they could have added another 50 to 60 odd.

Ind should be pleased they for a bonus 5-fer session on the first morning
But careful too...Eng have runs on board

India's session inspite of losing rohit cheaply , jaiswal looks good and Gill untroubled.

English fans on this forum speak highly of Robinson and he has a bowling average of 22 only but at 122kph Coljngwood and Derek Pringle like speeds in these conditions, I fail to see how he will have an impact.
And given that he is not 5th or 6th bowler but one of main 4
Jimmy is half of the bowler he was compared to the last tour and yet he appears Eng's best.
I really don't see Eng having firepower to take 20 wickets or even 15
BUT
I also know cricket is an amazingly unpredictable game that makes us look stupid if we don't factor for the unexpected

Three for Bashir, and England look on top. Jaiswal still there though...

Bashir has bowled tight to his credit.
And to their discredit Gill and especially Patidar neither used their feet nor pulled out an occasional sweep
Jadeja played bad prod at the stroke of tea.
Eng's session and if India has to come out of this hole, they need to play spinners more positively

Huge final session. Sarfaraz and Jaiswal is such a key partnership. Could be looking at India's deficit down to 100, still only four down, by the end of tonight, or England might run through the middle order.

There's the big wicket. Bashir gets his fourth, as Jaiswal is undone by a low one.

It's a minefield out there now, and India still trail by 192.

Pressure applied by Eng and pressure not deflected by Indians .
Jurel and Sarfaraz need to bat positively
Sarafarz is key , long inning needed from him

England have had to deal with the pressure of chasing a total on the board in the last two tests and now it's India's turn. Now can they hammer home the position they've worked

Ball is turning for Hartley and India up and against it now

Another low one, another wicket.

I expected the pitch to deteriorate, but it's 'gone' quicker than I thought. The toss and the Root/Foakes partnership has surely won it for England.

If I was Stokes, I would say that looked going down, was umpires calland since it went against me the system is not fair

I am not Stokes.....Jurel and lower order needs to salvage some runs and reduce deficit here

Duty281 wrote:Another low one, another wicket.

I expected the pitch to deteriorate, but it's 'gone' quicker than I thought. The toss and the Root/Foakes partnership has surely won it for England.

Those two 100+ partnerships for 6th and 8th wkt were crucial and rhe pitch has deteriorated very fast true

India has slid so far back now and expectations that its Eng's game  to lose it from here that finally they can bat pressure free and hope for a or few miracle freak innings from someone between remaining 13 wkst