Scotland vs England | The Calcutta Cup

by bsando Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:03 am

First topic message reminder :

Scotland vs England

Saturday 24th February 2024
Venue: Murrayfield
Kick-off: 4:45pm
Referee: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
TV Coverage: Live on BBC (UK) and Virgin Media (ROI)

Teams

Scotland

Kinghorn, Steyn, Jones, Tuipulotu, Van der Merwe, Russell (co-capt), White; Schoeman, Turner, Fagerson, Gilchrist, Cummings, Ritchie, Darge (co-capt), Dempsey.
Replacements: Ashman, Hepburn, Skinner, Christie, Horne, Healy, Redpath.

England

Furbank; Freeman, Slade, Lawrence, Daly; Ford, Care; Genge, George (capt), Cole, Itoje, Chessum, Roots, Underhill, Earl.
Replacements: Dan, Marler, Stuart, Martin, Cunningham-South, Spencer, F Smith, Feyi-Waboso.

by formerly known as Sam Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:17 pm

Well that's more like it.

by Heaf Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:18 pm

Off the post F!

by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:19 pm

Duty281 wrote:Unforgivable miss, unfortunately. Scotland have been ruthless from the kicking tee.

By unforgivable what do you mean? He's dropped for the next game?

by Duty281 Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:21 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Unforgivable miss, unfortunately. Scotland have been ruthless from the kicking tee.

By unforgivable what do you mean? He's dropped for the next game?

Dropped and forced to do manual labour in Walsall.

by doctor_grey Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:21 pm

That turnover was 0n Earl for not entering the breakdown. What was he waiting for?

by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:22 pm

Duty281 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Unforgivable miss, unfortunately. Scotland have been ruthless from the kicking tee.

By unforgivable what do you mean? He's dropped for the next game?

Dropped and forced to do manual labour in Walsall.

Just a rush of blood then!

by Heaf Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:23 pm

How long an advantage does he give for a knock-on? They went through 2 phases and a kick ... or maybe there was a 2nd later one ...

by miltonkeynesengland Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:23 pm

Duty281 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Unforgivable miss, unfortunately. Scotland have been ruthless from the kicking tee.

By unforgivable what do you mean? He's dropped for the next game?
Cruel and unusual punishment that

Dropped and forced to do manual labour in Walsall.

by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:24 pm

Feels a bit like the opposite of the past few Calcuttas unless my memory is deceiving me. Scotland are a hairs breadth ahead rather than vice versa. Will Scotland kick it to us in acres of space and will someone give us a pen try.

by mountain man Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:26 pm

So why didn't Jonker check that high tackle?

by doctor_grey Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:27 pm

Spencer is sooooo slow.

by doctor_grey Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:27 pm

mountain man wrote:So why didn't Jonker check that high tackle?

You know why

by formerly known as Sam Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:27 pm

How frustrating has the scrum call from Brace been. Takes about a minute for him to say the words. Speed the damn thing up the props on both sides are struggling to wait that long.

by mountain man Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:27 pm

IFW just looks so powerful and quick its hard to know why anyone wants Daly to start.

by Heaf Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:28 pm

And England continue to hand it to Scotland

by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:29 pm

mountain man wrote:IFW just looks so powerful and quick its hard to know why anyone wants Daly to start.

Hard to argue against the backs picks though when we're averaging 2 tries a game.

by mountain man Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:30 pm

Hmm no it's not.

by Mr Bounce Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:31 pm

How was that not a tackle?

by mountain man Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:32 pm

Itoje knees on ground but tackle not called. Oh well

by Heaf Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:32 pm

Scotland miles offside at that last ruck and then they call the maul - thought that was the ref's job?

by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:33 pm

1986 for a 4 in the row. Not just Borthwick but he can share that.

by miltonkeynesengland Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:33 pm

Hopefully this loss means we can look to experiment going forward. Start FS and IFW with CCS.

by Heaf Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:34 pm

Knees clearly hit the ground on the replay - Brace has reverted to being cr*p

by miltonkeynesengland Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:34 pm

We badly missed Mitchell and his speed at the breakdown

by Heaf Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:35 pm

So two pens for England ignored there

by TJ Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:35 pm

Never in doubt Rolling Eyes

by formerly known as Sam Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:35 pm

Heaf wrote:Knees clearly hit the ground on the replay - Brace has reverted to being cr*p

Reverted? He's been shocking throughout. I presume he only gets the gig because Ireland have no one else.

by mountain man Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:35 pm

England can take poor passes and handling but some dreadful decisions by Brace and Jonker be a bit tougher.

by miltonkeynesengland Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:36 pm

Just a word to a real hero of Union...Dr Robson...deserves every accolade he gets. One of the true greats who help the game be where it needs to be.

by **NeilyBroon** Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:37 pm

Big Dwayne won us that game really, him and our centres created everything. I think England looked dangerous with the subs on and when that defence clicks it'll be a nightmare.

by TJ Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:38 pm

Heaf wrote:Knees clearly hit the ground on the replay - Brace has reverted to being cr*p

gilcreast had already wrapped the ball up before that hence maul formed

by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:38 pm

Come on guys we never looked like winning that overall. And winning is all that matter right? Borthwick out.

by Heaf Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:38 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:Knees clearly hit the ground on the replay - Brace has reverted to being cr*p

Reverted? He's been shocking throughout. I presume he only gets the gig because Ireland have no one else.

I was trying to be even-handed but in the end it got too much with his clearly wrong calls - England were gifting it to Scotland as it was, they didn't need his help.

by TJ Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:39 pm

Also Itoje was somewhat creative with his interpretation of offside - sort of John Jeffries offside line :-)

by TJ Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:40 pm

Heaf wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:Knees clearly hit the ground on the replay - Brace has reverted to being cr*p

Reverted? He's been shocking throughout. I presume he only gets the gig because Ireland have no one else.

I was trying to be even-handed but in the end it got too much with his clearly wrong calls - England were gifting it to Scotland as it was, they didn't need his help.

A good few decisions missed for Scotland as well

by Heaf Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:41 pm

TJ wrote:
Heaf wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:Knees clearly hit the ground on the replay - Brace has reverted to being cr*p

Reverted? He's been shocking throughout. I presume he only gets the gig because Ireland have no one else.

I was trying to be even-handed but in the end it got too much with his clearly wrong calls - England were gifting it to Scotland as it was, they didn't need his help.

A good few decisions missed for Scotland as well

Probably, he misses a lot and is generally poor

by king_carlos Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:42 pm

Scotland the more clinical side by a distance. Finn was very good indeed and Duhey is of course lethal.

Lots of unforced errors from England and some really dumb play in the first half. Trying to run it from around the opposition 10m line with no momentum and ending up putting themselves under pressure.

Martin and IFW were really good from the bench. Whilst Smith impressed on the whole. CCS was impressive in contact again too.

Mitchell was missed hugely. Care was genuinely dismal and Spencer not a whole lot better. Quirke's continued injury struggles on top of Mitchell and JvP having surgeries leaves 9 pretty bare. Care's never strung games together as an international starter.

Lawrence had a pretty poor game as well it must be said. Struggling to stay aligned in defence, that awful pass across Earl and little impact when carrying. I'd give him another week given his talent and Dingwall being no better. It wasn't a great showing though. I'd be tempted to switch Daly into 13 for Slade and start IFW.

A frustrating watch for an England fan. Plenty of chances but poor execution.

by **BigGee** Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:43 pm

My 60th bithday this weekend

Thank you Scotland for helping to make it a great weekend!

by formerly known as Sam Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:43 pm

Heaf wrote:
TJ wrote:
Heaf wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:Knees clearly hit the ground on the replay - Brace has reverted to being cr*p

Reverted? He's been shocking throughout. I presume he only gets the gig because Ireland have no one else.

I was trying to be even-handed but in the end it got too much with his clearly wrong calls - England were gifting it to Scotland as it was, they didn't need his help.

A good few decisions missed for Scotland as well

Probably, he misses a lot and is generally poor

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting he favoured one side or the other just that he was generally not very good.

by formerly known as Sam Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:44 pm

BigGee wrote:My 60th bithday this weekend

Thank you Scotland for helping to make it a great weekend!

Happy birthday, hope the celebrations are suitably epic.

by king_carlos Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:44 pm

BigGee wrote:My 60th bithday this weekend

Thank you Scotland for helping to make it a great weekend!

Happy birthday sir!

by TAFKA The Oracle Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:45 pm

BigGee wrote:My 60th bithday this weekend

Thank you Scotland for helping to make it a great weekend!

Happy birthday, BigGee

by Heaf Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:46 pm

BigGee wrote:My 60th bithday this weekend

Thank you Scotland for helping to make it a great weekend!

Happy Birthday cake

by No 7&1/2 Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:46 pm

BigGee wrote:My 60th bithday this weekend

Thank you Scotland for helping to make it a great weekend!

Happy birthday.

by glaws Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:51 pm

Not really a shock though, this is what happens when you pick players from Bath, Quins and Sarries who only care about their bank balances. Them 3 plus Wasps before they thankfully went bust are the reason English rugby is in a mess due to their greed and corruption I’m afraid, just a pity those 3 didn’t go the same way instead of Irish, Worcester and Jersey.

by doctor_grey Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:52 pm

Scotland were very good, turning sk!t ball into gold. VDM is very, very good. But very much a team win.

So England change players and manage to score only 21 points. Clearly not all on the players....

I know I shouldn't do this in the immediate aftermath of the game, but for the next game, I would select:
The same front row, at least for 10-20 minutes (OK more than 20, just a little joke)
Same second row
Back row 6 Martin, 7 CCS, 8 Earl
Scrum half: Mauro Bergamesco (doom on England). It's easy to see the value Mitchell adds. I suppose Spencer has to start, but gawd, he is so slow.
Fly half: could go either way, but despite everything he does well, Ford is not a difference maker now
11: IFW (no doubts)
12: Lawrence was not great but did push the defense back with ball in hand. Just don't make a break and try to pass.
13: Slade (could easily go Freeman)
14: Freeman (could be Daly)
15: Furbank (needs another start - hopefully with Fin at 10)

One of the American tv commentators offered the thought that England's biggest problem was the game plan. As in he was having trouble figuring out what they were actually trying to do. Almost seemed they were trying to attack aggressively but had no plan B when something didn't work. Good example was when England were doing well earlier in the game and Care kicked the ball into touch, killing any momentum.

by Yoda Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:52 pm

Don't think brace is bad, he doesn't communicate enough for me and did miss some easy calls. What is clear is that England need glue for their hands and practice at playing more than 10 phases without losing focus or shape. Scotland are lucky to have Finn Russell who imo is playing his best rugby ATM. Big duane is such a threat.

by doctor_grey Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:53 pm

Heaf wrote:
BigGee wrote:My 60th bithday this weekend

Thank you Scotland for helping to make it a great weekend!

Happy Birthday

by bsando Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:53 pm

What a result! I’m very impressed. Clinical.

by TJ Sat Feb 24, 2024 1:53 pm

Scotland took our chances today and a Russell masterclass. He led the team and he created space and found space. Just brilliant

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