England - The Next Episode: Part Deux: Phoenix from the Ashes

First topic message reminder :

Net up...Summer Tour to NZ...and a game v Japan

Rugby Fan wrote:

Marler speaking with Dan Cole and Ben Youngs. YouTube topic menu below. The part about his relationship with Borthwick, and then a discussion about coaching staff changes are most relevant to the national side.

I hope he gets there. I said when I first saw him play that he would get 300 caps for Quins and 100 for England. If he starts doing his rehab properly the former should happen this season. Getting 5 caps for England may be more of a stretch with the competition for the shirt, when is Genge due back?

Poorfour wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:

Marler speaking with Dan Cole and Ben Youngs. YouTube topic menu below. The part about his relationship with Borthwick, and then a discussion about coaching staff changes are most relevant to the national side.

I hope he gets there. I said when I first saw him play that he would get 300 caps for Quins and 100 for England. If he starts doing his rehab properly the former should happen this season. Getting 5 caps for England may be more of a stretch with the competition for the shirt, when is Genge due back?

I think Genge should be back from the start of the season. I think Marler has a good chance to get more caps as long as he stays fit. He's a cracking scrummager still and that's still a big factor in the modern game.

[quote="formerly known as Sam"]

Poorfour wrote:

I think Genge should be back from the start of the season. I think Marler has a good chance to get more caps as long as he stays fit. He's a cracking scrummager still and that's still a big factor in the modern game.

I can see Marler making the squad once his foot is healed, but if Genge and Baxter are both fit and in form he may struggle to make the XXIII. Genge is a clear first choice when fit; not as good a scrummager but near enough and a better carrier.

Baxter is potentially the best of the lot, but now needs the international experience. There are around 30 tests between now and RWC27 warm ups, and Borthwick will probably want him to play in at least 20 of them, while also giving exposure to some of the other candidates.

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

I think Genge should be back from the start of the season. I think Marler has a good chance to get more caps as long as he stays fit. He's a cracking scrummager still and that's still a big factor in the modern game.

I can see Marler making the squad once his foot is healed, but if Genge and Baxter are both fit and in form he may struggle to make the XXIII. Genge is a clear first choice when fit; not as good a scrummager but near enough and a better carrier.

Baxter is potentially the best of the lot, but now needs the international experience. There are around 30 tests between now and RWC27 warm ups, and Borthwick will probably want him to play in at least 20 of them, while also giving exposure to some of the other candidates.

Yeah Baxter is very impressive but managing his workload and keeping him fit will be a challenge. Could allow Marler a chance or two plus there's the tour to Argentina next summer during the Lions where surely Genge will be unavailable and you'd expect Marler plus Baxter and another prospect will tour. Marler to add some experience with Cole probably being given the summer off to allow for more tighthead opportunity.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Yeah Baxter is very impressive but managing his workload and keeping him fit will be a challenge. Could allow Marler a chance or two plus there's the tour to Argentina next summer during the Lions where surely Genge will be unavailable and you'd expect Marler plus Baxter and another prospect will tour. Marler to add some experience with Cole probably being given the summer off to allow for more tighthead opportunity.

I think Baxter is past the "managing his workload" phase. Quins have been very careful about how they introduced him, but last season was the one where he tipped over from getting time off the bench to being the starting loosehead even when Marler was fully fit. I'm pretty sure his coaches think he's ready to start for Quins on an ongoing basis. You can't legislate for injuries, but if he stays fit this season will be about more game time rather than less.

The Argentina tour is traditionally where England try out fringe players, and give established ones who aren't with the Lions a bit of a rest. Baxter will go on that if he's fit (and not with the Lions - which I think is a possibility if he has a very good autumn and 6N), but the only way I can see Marler going is if he's on 98 or 99 caps and England want to give him a send off. And he can be arsed to tour, which of course is never a given.

Baxter really impressed in NZ. He's a quality young player. Borthwick has generally paired a carrying prop and a massive defensive work rate prop. Genge and Cole or Marler and Stuart. The only time he didn't do that in the Six Nations was injury enforced and brief. In NZ, he stuck with that. Stuart starting with Marler and then Baxter. Which camp he sees Baxter in will be interesting to see.

Schoeman and Porter are the standout LH options for the Lions by a mile currently. Healy is as old as Cole and Sutherland has really fallen away. Whilst the Welsh prop options are in absolute strife. There's definitely an opening there for the third pick in the initial squad and the inevitable fourth or more for cover. Genge is probably frontrunner for that at the moment.

I'd be very happy to see Baxter starting and Genge used for impact alongside Theo Dan or Langdon. The bench has been lacking impact for a while. CCS definitely added that in the Six Nations. They need more of it though.

king_carlos wrote:Baxter really impressed in NZ. He's a quality young player. Borthwick has generally paired a carrying prop and a massive defensive work rate prop. Genge and Cole or Marler and Stuart. The only time he didn't do that in the Six Nations was injury enforced and brief. In NZ, he stuck with that. Stuart starting with Marler and then Baxter. Which camp he sees Baxter in will be interesting to see.

Schoeman and Porter are the standout LH options for the Lions by a mile currently. Healy is as old as Cole and Sutherland has really fallen away. Whilst the Welsh prop options are in absolute strife. There's definitely an opening there for the third pick in the initial squad and the inevitable fourth or more for cover. Genge is probably frontrunner for that at the moment.

I'd be very happy to see Baxter starting and Genge used for impact alongside Theo Dan or Langdon. The bench has been lacking impact for a while. CCS definitely added that in the Six Nations. They need more of it though.

Do you see George being phased out slowly?

No, I think George is playing well enough to be worth his place. I just think the bench spot should be Dan or Langdon. They're the standout up and coming hookers that I've seen. They both also offer good impact.

Langdon has just ended up unavailable for the start of the Six Nations and then the summer tour camps, which is unfortunate. I think Langdon will be in the AIs squad if fit though. I don't see any reason that Borthwick wouldn't like the style of player he is. Decent in the tight and very dynamic in the loose.

I think Dan needs to mature a bit - in NZ he was trying too hard and not using his team mates. He's got real potential but someone needs to take him to one side and give him a few hard truths.

What really impresses me about Baxter is that he could play either role. He tackles, jackals, carries and scrummages well. I think part of it is that he isn't having to choose between explosive power for carrying and power endurance for scrummaging - his carrying has a bit of subtlety and he makes his post contact yards by slipping out of tackles rather than blasting through them.

Well hopefully at LH England has a healthy future with Genge, Baxter then Haffar, Iyogun,  Brantingham etc...all young, looking good and not far away from being ready. I'm biased but Brantingham is a very good player already and Saracens could really turn him in to a top class prop.

Tight head...well there's some potentials coming through but nowhere near as down the line as the LHs.
What's people's thoughts on Harper at Sale?

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Yeah Baxter is very impressive but managing his workload and keeping him fit will be a challenge. Could allow Marler a chance or two plus there's the tour to Argentina next summer during the Lions where surely Genge will be unavailable and you'd expect Marler plus Baxter and another prospect will tour. Marler to add some experience with Cole probably being given the summer off to allow for more tighthead opportunity.

I think Baxter is past the "managing his workload" phase. Quins have been very careful about how they introduced him, but last season was the one where he tipped over from getting time off the bench to being the starting loosehead even when Marler was fully fit. I'm pretty sure his coaches think he's ready to start for Quins on an ongoing basis. You can't legislate for injuries, but if he stays fit this season will be about more game time rather than less.

The Argentina tour is traditionally where England try out fringe players, and give established ones who aren't with the Lions a bit of a rest. Baxter will go on that if he's fit (and not with the Lions - which I think is a possibility if he has a very good autumn and 6N), but the only way I can see Marler going is if he's on 98 or 99 caps and England want to give him a send off. And he can be arsed to tour, which of course is never a given.

I don't think any player should be past the managing his workload phase, particularly young props who's bodies have just finished developing and are being placed under massive strain. I'm not saying he shouldn't be first choice if form warrants it. I'm saying if he plays 30 games next season is it really wise for him to tour?

England will need to take at least one experienced prop on each side to Argentina. Marler and Stuart is a good foil for a younger combination of say Baxter and Heyes or Ioygen/Rodd and Harper. All well and good testing out the fringe players but it's generally wise to ensure there's a decent platform. At least one, more likely two of our locks will be in the Lions squad. So some stability and experience on the tight five is advisable. Not like the Pumas tight five is lightweight.

Geordie wrote:Well hopefully at LH England has a healthy future with Genge, Baxter then Haffar, Iyogun,  Brantingham etc...all young, looking good and not far away from being ready. I'm biased but Brantingham is a very good player already and Saracens could really turn him in to a top class prop.

Tight head...well there's some potentials coming through but nowhere near as down the line as the LHs.
What's people's thoughts on Harper at Sale?

Fasogbon is likely to get more game time at Glaws this season with Balmain now at Sarries. That's good news though realistically he's probably at least a year away and a bit young to be a regular go to option.

Sella at Bath is very promising but probably even further away and behind quite a bit of talent.

Harper at Sale looks a solid all rounder. Be interesting to see if he can kick on this season. 24 games and 11 starts for Harper last season. Not many were memorable and he did get carded twice (though Sale often see a man in the bin). AOF up there is another interesting option, he's potentially x-factor.

Heyes really has to kick on again this season, he's stalled for the last couple now and he really should be pushing past Big Dan for club and country. He's a big lad who's more than capable at the set piece (now he's worked on his feet placing). Fairly mobile for a prop nearly 20 stone but needs to start hitting at that weight and making impact. 12 starts in 18 overall appearances last season but largely forgettable.

Yeah like I said Sam...TH...a few potentials but nowhere near down the path some of the young LHs are.

I don't think Sella or Fasogabon are remotely close for a season probably 2 or 3.

Hayes...well I think this is his big season. Can Chieka get the potential out? Hayes needs to step up.

Harper ...unsure where he'll end up..a decent prem player or can he push on.
At the moment I can see Coley being rolled out in his zimmer with Stuart backing up for while yet.

If only Scotty Wilson had kept fit....

S&C coach appointed, Dan Tobin from Gloucester.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/c2dgkwe380jo

mountain man wrote:S&C coach appointed, Dan Tobin from Gloucester.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/c2dgkwe380jo

Tombleson or Walters replacement?

Edit: reads like a Tombleson replacement.

Well not the signing I was thinking...don't really know much about him. People's thoughts?

I see Marler has defended Borthwick. People might say standard a player defending his coach...but Marler doesn't need to....

I see Toulon have bought out Mercers contract so he'll play this season then head back to France.

Geordie wrote:Well not the signing I was thinking...don't really know much about him. People's thoughts?

I see Marler has defended Borthwick. People might say standard a player defending his coach...but Marler doesn't need to....

I'd say Marler being genuine. Eddie was well known for being an extremely hard task master and worse at times, several coaches leaving have strongly implied that if not saying it outright. Marler himself says how "dark" it was at times under Jones.
Without being there none of us know what really happens but going on Borthwick overall personality etc I'm pretty confident he's a decent bloke to work for and play for.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mountain man wrote:S&C coach appointed, Dan Tobin from Gloucester.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/c2dgkwe380jo

Tombleson or Walters replacement?

Edit: reads like a Tombleson replacement.

Reading the reports Sam, he actually looks like Walters replacement...

Geordie wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mountain man wrote:S&C coach appointed, Dan Tobin from Gloucester.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/c2dgkwe380jo

Tombleson or Walters replacement?

Edit: reads like a Tombleson replacement.

Reading the reports Sam, he actually looks like Walters replacement...

“Dan is an outstanding S&C coach, who has a wealth of rugby experience and a proven track record in maximising the physical performance of his players and helping them reach their full potential," said Borthwick.

It's hard to know as they could be consolidating the roles into one, at least temporarily. Judging by the wording from Borthwick "S&C coach" that sounds like a Tombleson replacement. We'll see.

From the Times today

"The Times understands that Tobin is not a direct replacement for Walters, more his second in command  Tombleson. "

mountain man wrote:From the Times today

"The Times understands that Tobin is not a direct replacement for Walters, more his second in command  Tombleson. "

The Times understands many things that aren't actually true, though. Especially when Stephen Jones is writing them.

Poorfour wrote:

mountain man wrote:From the Times today

"The Times understands that Tobin is not a direct replacement for Walters, more his second in command  Tombleson. "

The Times understands many things that aren't actually true, though. Especially when Stephen Jones is writing them.

For those of us of an age: 'The Times Understands' reminds me of 'Pravda is authorised to report....'

Apropos of nothing, of course.

Zack Wimbush might be next. Wonder how we would be able to tempt him? It would be a hard sell. He’s bigger than Roberts, Llewelyn and Grady, very big centre.

mikey_dragon wrote:Zack Wimbush might be next. Wonder how we would be able to tempt him? It would be a hard sell. He’s bigger than Roberts, Llewelyn and Grady, very big centre.

Does somewhat smack of desperation trying to get a young centre who's on a development contract and who's played one season as a squad player. How will it be taken by Welsh development players who see Gatland trying to tempt across a player who isn't first choice for his club in the Prem and who has a solitary grandparent linking him to Wales.

He's a big centre but more in the Rougerie mold as opposed to the big bosh style Gatland has favoured previously.

Neil Fissler reported on RugbyPass that Borthwick was looking at Nick Easter as a potential replacement for Felix Jones as defence coach.

Easter didn't have a great transition into coaching at Quins - but that may well have been that the transition to coaching his mates was too big a step. He's since had a good reputation, particularly in his recent work with Chinnor and the US Eagles.

Here's a link to the Times speculation a couple of weeks ago.

https://archive.is/1bs2f#selection-2209.67-2209.77

formerly known as Sam wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Zack Wimbush might be next. Wonder how we would be able to tempt him? It would be a hard sell. He’s bigger than Roberts, Llewelyn and Grady, very big centre.

Does somewhat smack of desperation trying to get a young centre who's on a development contract and who's played one season as a squad player. How will it be taken by Welsh development players who see Gatland trying to tempt across a player who isn't first choice for his club in the Prem and who has a solitary grandparent linking him to Wales.

He's a big centre but more in the Rougerie mold as opposed to the big bosh style Gatland has favoured previously.

Gatland is desperate though, he is also extremely arrogant whilst getting paid to make a fool of Wales on the world stage. I don't think it would look good at all if we capped him, but I don't mind poaching players if it benefits us.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/0tf6bXNpXg8bEuMEaBMMx8?si=a763621511d344fd

George Ford on "For the Love of Rugby" is another very good listen. There will probably be a YouTube version up later.

Ford, Youngs and Cole start by discussing half-back partnerships. Youngs says he came close to joining Bath, so he could play again with Ford. Ford says the chance to playing again with Youngs was a big reason he rejoined Leicester.

Youngs spoke about the 25-25 match with New Zealand in 2022. He says the main reason England settled for the draw, is that they expected the All Blacks to kick long. The plan was to keep the ball in play, and see what was on. When the kick-off was shorter, so many players got tied in just trying to secure it, everything seemed to get taken off the table.

Later, they all discuss coaching input. Ford says it annoys him when he gets told on a Monday how he should have played on Saturday. He says good coaches can see what is happening as the game is on, and give guidance at the time. On the other hand, he reckons half-time is often wasted if players and coaches try and talk about too much.

Dan Cole's bugbear is a coach in a review identifying space, then telling players that's where they should have attacked. Not only is the message too late, often, it's only space because the team have no-one available to threaten there, so the opposition haven't moved a defender to cover.

I'll give that a lesson later. Three blokes who could quite easily all become coaches. Ben Youngs is already working with his old school in Norfolk. George Ford will surely follow the family tradition and be a head coach.

So it appears that Sinfield is being offered a new 3 year contract of £300k a year to stay until WC 2027

The issue is that Sinfield wants clarity on what role it is...as apparently Borthwick is looking for a replacement defence coach (for Jones) and its not Sinfield.

Isn't Sinfield now the skills coach or something? And kicking(?). Something like that.

Yeah thats his current role, but clearly from the paper reports today even that isnt totally clear...so Sinfield wants a full clarified role.

Well skills coach is a bit vague and I'm not biggest RL fan but didn't think kicking was his forte there. He was given those once Jones got defence job as he had to do something. I guess it depends on what he actually wants to do if he isn't defence. Smacks slightly of giving him a job he doesn't necessarily want or is best at just to keep him around.

Id like to know what Borthwick is looking for.

Sinfield was D coach, then SB didnt seem to want him as that, so he went to skills coach, and brought Jones in who wanted to be attack coach, but SB wanted him as D coach, which has now ultimately driven Jones out.

So now Sinfield being offered £300k a year, with a vacant D position, and yet hes not looking to move Sinfield there and wants an outsider.

Its odd. Borthwick seems very clear on what he wants and is very driven, and yet things seem unclear.

As I recall England defence wasn't great under Sinfield anyway, OK he didn't get a long run at it but Jones was a significant improvement and players seemed to think so as well

As far as I can tell, Sinfield's role is akin to the Fellow at Google (everyone at Google is a Fellow) whose business card famously reads "For he's a jolly good Fellow". The players like him, respond to him and want him around, but I am guessing he doesn't have the specialist depth in union that Borthwick wants, and that's the source of the tension.

Poorfour wrote:As far as I can tell, Sinfield's role is akin to the Fellow at Google (everyone at Google is a Fellow) whose business card famously reads "For he's a jolly good Fellow". The players like him, respond to him and want him around, but I am guessing he doesn't have the specialist depth in union that Borthwick wants, and that's the source of the tension.

Rumours at the RWC were that as teams figured out the Sinfield system, he struggled with the technical aspects of shifting it and coaching the changes in short time. Which is understandable given he's been in union briefly. Other coaches were reportedly taking on more defence duties as the RWC went on.

Having coaches outside of the usual defence, attack, etc just coaching certain skills is pretty common now. Duane Vermuelen is now doing that with the Boks, coaching contact area and breakdown work across the SA system.

The obvious standout candidates for attack and defence coach are both in contract, as expected with top coaches. For attack, both are Prem head coaches. Sam Vesty and Joe Shaw are the standouts I can see now that Mike Catt is signed up at the Tahs, presumably with an eye on joining the Oz setup down the line. For defence, Shaun Edwards seems ideal for coaching a continuation of the Jones installed blitz.

Assistants without international experience can thrive if it's the right match though. Jerry Flannery is in his first international role with the Boks, their defence is looking as good as ever with him coaching it.

Losing Walters and Jones are hammer blows though. Both world class. I'll be really interested to hear in a year or so, just whenever the dust settles, what the reasons were. Whether it was frustrations with the old club vs country issues in English rugby. Borthwick. Coaching roles. Whatever else.

Poorfour wrote:As far as I can tell, Sinfield's role is akin to the Fellow at Google (everyone at Google is a Fellow) whose business card famously reads "For he's a jolly good Fellow". The players like him, respond to him and want him around, but I am guessing he doesn't have the specialist depth in union that Borthwick wants, and that's the source of the tension.

Sinfield was only moved from the defence post after it was announced he was going. The Felix Jones arrival was supposed to have been agreed before Sinfield looked to go. It possibly points to Borthwick originally intending to use Jones as an attack coach (he won a world cup as a defence coach and then as an attack coach with the Boks) but then changed his mind.

Sinfield isn't a top defence coach though clearly he's got some skills as the Tigers defence when winning the title was pretty handy. Whether he's developed enough over the last year or so to make a better go of it this time round I guess we'll see. Felix Jones is a top drawer coach who's availability will no doubt be interesting a number of top international and club sides.

This is the main thing that worries me about Borthwick’s reign. He doesn’t seem to have struggled with getting the coaches he wants, but he has struggled to keep them. Not just Walters, Jones and Sinfield, but even the likes of Nick Evans (who was offered a role for the RWC but not a permanent job).

With Eddie it was kind of expected as he’d squeeze the pips out of each new coach and then move onto the next one. Borthwick seems to have a different style - but seems to be struggling to get and hold his team together.

Poorfour wrote:This is the main thing that worries me about Borthwick’s reign. He doesn’t seem to have struggled with getting the coaches he wants, but he has struggled to keep them. Not just Walters, Jones and Sinfield, but even the likes of Nick Evans (who was offered a role for the RWC but not a permanent job).

Nick Evans wasn't meant to be a permanent addition. England needed an attack coach quickly so borrowed one. Felix Jones was I think the preferred option but Quins wouldn't accept a longer term borrow of Evans.

Walters is a massive blow but there's family reasons why he wants to return to Ireland, the role he's got isn't exactly a bad one either. Tombleson has left England to join Man City which you'd imagine comes with a significant increase in salary. Felix Jones is the concerning one, he's a massive loss and there's no obvious reason why he should want to go.

Agreed, Jones is the most frustrating one.

Walters is a brilliant coach, that's evident. It's also pretty much unique to have an S&C lead that prominent. The Ireland setup is the motherload for Walters' remit too. He's an expert at getting players peaking for specific periods. The Ireland system gives him more control than he would anywhere else over resting players to do that. Along with the family stuff, it makes plenty of sense.

Jones' family are settled in Ireland too to be fair from his time with Munster. He's not even been announced there though. He may well end up taking a Lions assistant gig, then biding his time for something longer term. He's world class as an attack and defence coach, plus analyses the game in a way few even at the top of international rugby can. It's a massive loss. That's the one I'm curious to hear more on why it happened when it all comes out in the wash.

I can see coaches in the Prem who can be worth looking at for attack coach roles. For the defence, I'd rather they go for someone with significant international experience. There have been rumours that Edwards might not be as settled with the French setup, or perhaps them not being as settled with him, since the RWC. That's who I'd look at.

The French have Edwards under contract until the next world cup so they'd have to be a serious fall out for him to become available.

I think Felix Jones would be an obvious Lions pick up. Not sure there's any coaching gigs going with Ireland though some head coaching gigs at club level could arise before long and he could use that as a stepping stone to the main gig at international level in the future.

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Nick Evans wasn't meant to be a permanent addition. England needed an attack coach quickly so borrowed one. Felix Jones was I think the preferred option but Quins wouldn't accept a longer term borrow of Evans.

They borrowed him for the 6N and asked to borrow him for the RWC. Quins’ view was that that was too long for a temporary role (given it would cover all of pre-season and the start of the season), but said they would release him if it was a permanent role. Borthwick didn’t offer that - possibly because he was lining up Jones.

Writing it that way makes me wonder if Borthwick actually does have a touch of the Eddies - constantly looking for the next great option and prepared to tinker with other coaches’ roles in a way that unsettles them. But without Eddie’s magnetic ability to get people in anyway.

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Nick Evans wasn't meant to be a permanent addition. England needed an attack coach quickly so borrowed one. Felix Jones was I think the preferred option but Quins wouldn't accept a longer term borrow of Evans.

They borrowed him for the 6N and asked to borrow him for the RWC. Quins’ view was that that was too long for a temporary role (given it would cover all of pre-season and the start of the season), but said they would release him if it was a permanent role. Borthwick didn’t offer that - possibly because he was lining up Jones.

Writing it that way makes me wonder if Borthwick actually does have a touch of the Eddies - constantly looking for the next great option and prepared to tinker with other coaches’ roles in a way that unsettles them. But without Eddie’s magnetic ability to get people in anyway.

I suspect the plan was always to get Felix Jones in post world cup. Borthwick was the anointed successor to Eddie so will have no doubt planned his coaching appointments around post world cup availability. Walters, Wigglesworth and Sinfield were all coming out of contract at the end of that season.

What wasn't in the plan was Sinfield wanting out due to the ongoing illness of his best friend only to reverse the decision following the untimely death of poor Rob Burrow.

There may well have been an element of the RFU not wanting to pay further release fees for the likes of NEv (at the RWC) or Ian Peel. They'd already forked out 7 figures to Tigers for Borthwick and Sinfield. Walters, Wigglesworth and Harrison followed once they were out of contract at the end of the season IIRC.

Peel in particular was a shame. He's a very highly rated forwards coach. The number of top coaches who have started under McCall is ridiculous. Faz Snr, Borthwick, Gustard and Sanderson alone. Then the growing army of highly rated assistants. Shaw. Peel. Sorrell. It's like a coaching academy learning from McCall.

Walters and Jones are both obvious candidates for Lions roles. Townsend potentially as attack coach again. Perhaps ROG if they could get him. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they even took a specialist attack coach such as Toonie, a specialist defence coach such as Easterby, then had Jones working between both as he did with the Boks in his oddly named "European coaching consultant" role. Which basically meant that Rassie rated Jones' work so highly that he was happy for him to just work on whatever he noticed in analysis that others wouldn't. POC must be a front runner for the forwards coach role too, keeping his partnership with Easterby together.

Re Edwards, he's in contract to the next RWC, but if France were looking to freshen their coaching staff after a dip since the RWC, then Edwards does seem the odd one out. Servat is a really well rated and has Sempere newly working in partnership with him - both were Ilbanez picks I believe. Arlettaz is another post RWC hire, working alongside Galthie with the backs and attack. So, if there's a spring clean to be done, then Edwards does seem the most obvious place there might be a freshen up for the French setup.

I've raised this name before when discussing England and Tigers potential coaching hires, but, Joe El-Abd really interests me. A lot of English coaches often stay in the Prem. Which makes sense in a way given there are a lot of teams, so a lot of coaching gigs. El-Abd knows English rugby from his time as a player, but has been in the French system for a good while now, is a very highly rated, he's worked as a forwards and defence coach, plus took Oyonnax to the Top 14 as head coach working with a relatively small budget as ProD2 goes these days. They got relegated, granted, but the disparity from their budget to the other Top 14 clubs was likely bigger than the gap Falcons are working with just now! He seems a rare younger English coach who knows English rugby very well but has experience outwith it too. I wouldn't mind Vesty or Shaw as attack coach for instance, but their CVs are the typical English coaching pathway. Prem player. Prem assistant coach. Prem head coach. You can be a fantastic coach from that pathway, but I really like El-Abd as someone with a different experience and view of the game. I think he'd be a really good hire either as defence coach or as a forwards coach working under Borthwick doing the day to day 'tracksuit coaching'.

Joe El-Abd, Paul Gustard and Norman Laker are rumoured to be in the running to takeover from Felix Jones.

Laker is with Stormers as the defence coach
Gustard is the defence coach with Stade Francais
El-Abd is head coach at Oyannax

formerly known as Sam wrote:Joe El-Abd, Paul Gustard and Norman Laker are rumoured to be in the running to takeover from Felix Jones.

Laker is with Stormers as the defence coach
Gustard is the defence coach with Stade Francais
El-Abd is head coach at Oyannax

Isnt Gustard a fan of the blitz defence? Might give him the edge...

Would rather stick and make do until after the AIs. Don't want to handing out long contracts with Borthwick still hanging on.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/articles/cly337y44xjo

Article on possible defence coaches.

Oh and Borthwick wont be "hanging on", he'll be England coach through next year and on unless you have inside info on any change.