England - The Next Episode: Part Deux: Phoenix from the Ashes

First topic message reminder :

Net up...Summer Tour to NZ...and a game v Japan

formerly known as Sam wrote:Fairly disappointing squad there. Davison fresh from having a stinker as part of a beaten Saints pack is picked ahead of the form EQ tighthead in Heyes. Dombrandt, Northmore, Ford, Slade all picked despite not being fit.

Elliott Daly?!?

Elliott Daly, the eternal question!  
I think we have kicked his inclusion around more or less since the day he he was initially called up.  At times I have thought his inclusion was spot on, other times it seemed to me that Daly must have dirt on the selection committee.  Still a bit on the fence. I was a big supporter of his inclusion in the 2021 Lions for instance (rightfully or not), but now.....

On the other hand, and to Sam's point about Davision, I have to think he was selected (Davison, not Sam) because he is comfortable and competent propping on either side of the scrum (from an admittingly poor memory, roughly 70/30 or 75/25 as TH?).  He had a sub-standard game against Tigers last weekend, but his baseline over the past year or so has been good, or he would not have been considered for selection.  But he is on the north side of 30 and I want to see England taking a flyer on more younger guys.  To wit, how has Fin Baxter worked out so far?  Yes, I know he may be the exception to the rule, but he is also a LH who can play decently at TH.  

A quickie last point, also mentioned by Sam, (I know if I use the term 'quickie' a few of you are getting excited!), but I think it very rarely makes sense to throw players into the top level - International matches - without playing a proper top level club game and perform well first as a final part of a recovery.  On the other hand, this behaviour maintains the sport's governing bodies well honed modus operandi of continuing their amateur approach to player welfare.

Other than Langdon still being absent, I'd say Pearson and Tom Willis missing out to Ben Curry and Dombrandt respectively are the only selections I'm that disappointed with there. I think Pearson has as higher ceiling than Ben and my views of Dombrandt are well known. I'd sooner play with 14 men than see him in an England shirt again. Just carve a tired face on the front of a pumpkin, write an 8 on the back of it and leave it on the halfway line. The same job will get done.

I understand people not rating Ewels, but, honestly, I don't think there are obvious locks being left out? Coles would definitely be there if not for the injury, he's clearly 4th choice now. I think that Itoje, Chess, Martin and Coles are a really good group of 4. Isiekwe would be my next inline after Coles even though he hasn't really convinced for England yet. After Isiekwe, I'd say Ewels is a reasonable choice. He's been really good for Bath in the last couple of seasons after his injury. I can't think of any obvious locks being ignored. It's too early for the promising guys coming through the U20s. Tizard has stalled after looking so promising at Quins. Freddie Clarke is very consistent for Glaws but I think he'd have as little impact in the loose as Ewels at the top level, whilst being worse at the lineout. I'd maybe go for Chunya Munga at Saints if I was picking someone ahead of Ewels there.

I rate Daly, so usually disagree with folk here on him. It's not like the exciting options have been left out for him though. Freeman and IFW are first choice. Then Sleightholme next in line. All brilliant young wings with very strong attack games. Furbank has shifted into first choice FB too.

Heyes has had 1 very good (Chiefs), 1 good (Bath) and 1 outstanding (Saints) performance. It's been a good start to the season but hardly a body of work that demands recall after about 2 full seasons of regression ('22/23) and stagnation ('23/24) since he was excellent in '21/22.

Centre remains my biggest concern. We lack that significant physical presence that the best sides have. I think Slade makes sense given how good he is defensively. Lozowski could hypothetically offer similar but with more pace in attack. Marchant would be an upgrade on either though. I'd be tempted to invest in Freeman at 13. I think he could be brilliant there. Whilst the likes of IFW and Sleightholme are fantastic wingers who's acceleration and ability to change direction should suit the blitz defence well.

I don't mind Daly in the squad either. Even with the inclusion of Slade, there aren't many caps in the back line. With 27 caps, Ollie Lawrence is now one of the most experienced players but his early matches under Jones were a bit of a false start, and he has only been a first XV regular under Borthwick from the 2024 Six Nations.

If Slade isn't fit, and neither Steward or Daly starts, then most of the starting back line will have played only a handful of Tests, and not many of those together. Given the forwards and backs often train apart, then it might help to have someone like Daly around the camp.