England's winter of cricket 2024/25

First topic message reminder :

The squad for the tour of Pakistan has just been announced...Stokes and Crawley are back, with Dan Lawrence dropped. There are also recalls for Rehan Ahmed and Jack Leach, with Brydon Carse getting a tour also.

Full squad (likely XI then others);

Zak Crawley
Ben Duckett
Ollie Pope
Joe Root
Harry Brook
Ben Stokes
Jamie Smith (wk)
Gus Atkinson
Olly Stone
Jack Leach
Shoaib Bashir

Reserves:
Jordan Cox
Brydon Carse
Rehan Ahmed
Chris Woakes
Josh Hull
Matthew Potts

Will MacPherson noting they see Tom Hartley as more suited for the true turning wickets of SL/India/Bangladesh, hence his omission. Tests likely to be played at Rawalpindi, Multan, Rawalpindi. (Two Pindi tests...fun).

Extra seamers suggest Stokes might not be fit to bowl?

That's unexpected.

Freebie for Pakistan as root drags on.

Pretty even again now. Stokes in the team adds an extra bat to T1 but Pakistan have a chance to bundle England out for around their score which would put them ahead in the game

And Root gone, slightly unluckily as he under-edges onto his boot and back onto the stumps.
211-3

Needs Duckett to keep going and Brook to play sensibly for the next half hour. If we can reach 250-3 by the close it will definitely be England's day, but another couple of wickets will make Pakistan's innings look a lot better.

Big wicket for Sajid as Root drags one on from an orthodox sweep...211/3 and the game is nicely poised... three decent partnerships now but none going to monster levels.

Sajid with a third and now the game is on an even keel. Duckett's attack ends on 114.

Need Brook and Stokes to get through to stumps, or it could be getting a little tricky. Pakistan on the front foot for now.

Ah and now Duckett gone....Said has been expensive, but he's getting results. Top knock for Duckett but a bad time to get out. Two new bats and the ball is doing a bit...

That's a hell of a ball from Sajid.

211/2 to 225/5. England up against it.

Oh dear... Brook done like a kipper there and Pakistan on a roll.... England need to consolidate or they could be in serious trouble batting last.

Duckett gave it away and fell to one that he had no chance of connecting.
Brook continued in same mindset as Root did , we have to keep going at the bowling.

Inspite of lack of clever commonsense from Pak and mediocrity of their spinners.....eng should note ball is turning quite a lot now, still slowly and some discretion is required in shot selection.

Eng need a lead to offset the 4th inning factor

Stokes doesn't last long.

That's the beauty of test cricket. About twenty minutes ago, England were in cruise control. Now they're facing defeat after a sudden collapse.

It's really turning out there.

And Stokes falls to a classic spin pitch dismissal and 360 looking far away.
The pitch is taking over now and over riding the mediocrity of Pak spinners now

Looks like this would've been a good toss to win! Pitch has really gone in this final session

We'll be fine. Got the all rounders in now. Carse is from South Africa, so likely bats as well as KP. Potts scored 149 (or something) in a CC match. Leach used to open in Tests

Yep, it's suddenly a spitting cobra, helped by Pakistan surging in confidence and belief.

Requires a more watchful approach, and I'm not sure England reacted in time to what was happening. All four wickets, over five degrees of turn. Brook's was seven degrees!

Trailing by 140. Need to get within 50, at least, and hope Leach and Bashir can deliver. Even then, chasing, say, 200 on day four could be tough.

Need to try get this lead for Pakistan to as close to 50 as we possibly can, and hope to skittle them for 150-200 in the third dig, with their nerves playing a role. Chasing anything 200+ on this last is gonna be tough, anything near 300 near impossible

Pakistan right on top with Stokes back in the pavilion. All of a sudden batting is looking near impossible... Still 140 behind so it is going to take something remarkable to get England back in the game from here. How quickly things change , eh ?

also as a side note, Stokes *really* is not good against spin. I know Pope has the reputation for it, but Stokes's record in the subcontinent is shocking. One hundred back in 2016 (in an innings where England had three centurions) and average of just below 30.
Nowhere near what he is in England/NZ/SA/Aus with the bat

Today a prime example - he went nowhere on the crease, caught in that inbetween length and a fairly easy dismissal for the left armer.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:also as a side note, Stokes *really* is not good against spin. I know Pope has the reputation for it, but Stokes's record in the subcontinent is shocking. One hundred back in 2016 (in an innings where England had three centurions) and average of just below 30.
Nowhere near what he is in England/NZ/SA/Aus with the bat

Today a prime example - he went nowhere on the crease, caught in that inbetween length and a fairly easy dismissal for the left armer.

Stokes's average in Asia is now down to 27. In Australia, he only averages 28.6 as well.

He doesn't offer much with the bat anywhere outside of England - since the start of 2020, Stokes' overseas average is 28.26, his home average is 47.75!

Another testing situation for Smith...who has handled a couple already rather well in his yet short career. If they want to get near 350 he's going to have to do most of the heavy lifting. Ball has indeed done plenty lately but one can be critical of some of those dismissals. : Duckett a bit loose (though hard to be on him too much after a top innings ) Brook's shot attempt was very unwise in that situation. New day tomorrow but Pakistan going to sleep much more comfortably...

Good work by Smith and Carse to stem the tide and see it to close of play - will need those two to the majority of heavy lifting tomorrow. Need to try and get that lead into double figures, and ideally as near to 50 as possible...and need to be batting again by close tomorrow!

Think you're a tad harsh on Brook there Alfie - that ball has spun pretty much more than any all day! I'd be more disappointed in Stokes's shot (or lack of footwork) personally.

That was a rollercoaster day.

Pakistan on top now. The pitch stopped being batting friendly after drinks in the evening session, and is now taking big turn. Root's dismissal was unfortunate and Stokes' was just poor. Perhaps, Duckett and Brook could have been a little more watchful with their dismissals, but the one that got Brook turned seven degrees and was perhaps the sharpest turner of the day!

Smith and Carse's approach was the right one, and they need to continue that into tomorrow. Don't worry about playing shots. Defend against the turn, and when a bad ball is served up, punish it (as Smith did with Sajid's full toss). It's not yet a pitch where you're guaranteed to get a ball with your name on it. It's a pitch where application and concentration is required.

It's a very tough road to victory for England from here. They need to try and squeeze out at least 60 runs tomorrow. Then with the ball ensure they're chasing no more than 200. Will be very tough.

Sajid Khan bowled very well today, full credit to him. Some support from Noman Ali as well. Zahid seems to be a wasted selection, but perhaps he'll come into the game more.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Good work by Smith and Carse to stem the tide and see it to close of play - will need those two to the majority of heavy lifting tomorrow. Need to try and get that lead into double figures, and ideally as near to 50 as possible...and need to be batting again by close tomorrow!

Think you're a tad harsh on Brook there Alfie - that ball has spun pretty much more than any all day! I'd be more disappointed in Stokes's shot (or lack of footwork) personally.

Yes the ball spun a mile , true. But he knew it was starting to spin big so stepping back to leg and exposing his stumps was very unwise , I reckon. Stokes indeed was guilty of lack of footwork - as you pointed out before , he isn't the best on spinning surfaces. Not suggesting it is easy for any of them , by the way ! But on a surface clearly getting trickier fast , losing 3 for 1 late in the day is disappointing. If they can't find a better way to play in the second innings , this is over whatever Pakistan set them.

Eng are up & against it....inspite of Duckett's 100 that will go down as a masterful inning on a spinning pitch, inspite of mediocrity of Pak's spinners and lack of their planning & intensity.

For Eng to come out of this
-Smith has to play a blinder with support from "tail" to get 100 more team runs
And
-Pak has to crumble for 150 in 2nd inning
And
-Duckett, Crawley, Pope, Brook  blitz  to 20s and 30s in second inning with Root anchor to chase down 180

Too many tough asks to come together for Eng to win ~180 or less
200+ would be next to impossible in any case in 4th inning as by that time pitch would have turned into a minefield

A point that has been made already in the forum  & quantified by a post that appeared in my twitter feed

Ben Stokes now holds the record for the lowest batting average by a non-Asian batter with at least 1,000 runs in Asia in Test cricket...
He has scored 1,324 runs in Asia at an average of 27.02...

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:also as a side note, Stokes *really* is not good against spin. I know Pope has the reputation for it, but Stokes's record in the subcontinent is shocking. One hundred back in 2016 (in an innings where England had three centurions) and average of just below 30.
Nowhere near what he is in England/NZ/SA/Aus with the bat

Today a prime example - he went nowhere on the crease, caught in that inbetween length and a fairly easy dismissal for the left armer.

I think he's got worse since the knee injury as well. His footwork seems far more laboured. It's something I really noticed in the white ball side. England used to be brilliant batting against spin in the peak Morgan-Bayliss years. Then it declined as players struggled or retired. Stokes seemed so much less dangerous against spin after the injury. It felt like he couldn't get down the pitch as well anymore. Either coming down the track or just getting that big stride in for the sweep that he used to be better with. That was how he put pressure back on spin, which could somewhat hide his weakness at playing it conventionally as Root does.

I've only seen bits and pieces of today but listened to a fair amount of comms. From what I can gather, it seemed like just a really good day of Test cricket that Pakistan took bragging rights of in the final session? England were looking very good with Duckett and Root at the crease, then everything changed as it can. It certainly seemed to me more a case of Pakistan bowling fairly well on a challenging pitch than abject batting. Definitely a good toss to win.

A lot rests on the Smith and Carse partnership tomorrow. We've seen Smith play some excellent high pressure knocks in his brief career. I'd say he's England's next best batter against spin after Root and Duckett. Whilst Carse is a really decent number 8 these days. It's probably going to take Smith scoring at least a half century in tough circumstances to not give up big lead on this sort of pitch.

A really well poised Test match though, even if England are clearly behind. That isn't nothing after some of what we've seen in Pakistan in recent years!

Would never write off this England team as they've managed some remarkable comebacks before. But looks a very narrow path to victory from here (certainly won't be a draw !)

First need to get substantially closer to that Pakistan total . That is likely to be tough.  Duckett suggested - perhaps optimistically ? - that the pitch might be easier for batting in the morning , which would indeed help. Carse , and even Potts , certainly aren't rabbits , and Leach can hang around  ; but it is really up to Smith to steer the ship on resumption. Getting up to 300-320 is surely vital as a deficit of more than 70 would make the fourth innings disadvantage very significant - batting against spin on day four looms as a nightmare !

If they can get within say 40 or so then Pakistan's record of third innings collapses might be in play : it would surely be on their own minds , particularly if a wicket or two fell early. And a chase of sub 180 might not be out of the question. So there are chances. But it needs a lot to go right.

Anyway from a neutral perspective this is looking to be a much more interesting contest than the run fest of the previous match . Probably won't lead to ten day pitches becoming a standard fixture though...

Carse throws it away....he needed to hold one end....instead holds out....wasn't pitch here but bad shot

Absolute rubbish from Carse. Gifted his wicket.

KP_fan wrote:Carse throws it away....he needed to hold one end....instead holds out....wasn't pitch here but bad shot

Yes. The pressure of being held just blocking got to him - that was over ambitious and has paid the price. Someone needs to stay with Smith.

with the rolling this morning pitch should be a bit settled for 40 odd minutes

Pott's made sajid look like Warne
That had to be played off the front foot

Pakistan will be batting in 40 minutes Or sooner...Sajid bamboozled Potts then for his 6th .256/8 and Smith probably has to go ballistic now...

Yeah, can't expect Leach and Bashir to hang around for long.

Smith needs to see if he can strike a quick 20.

Sajid has bowled splendidly. But the England bats , apart from Duckett and Root , have not played him at all well. Will need to be much smarter in the second innings to have any hope , whatever they end up chasing.

Smith gone lofting to long off.262/9 and Pakistan must smell a series levelling win ...

Smith holds out now....the ball is not spinning yet this morning like the last session of yesterday

Leach with a couple of nice blows gets the margin under 100. Going to be a big lead though...which might soothe Pakistan third innings nerves a bit. Some not very happy faces on the England balcony - understandably. Leach has been the best of the bats this morning 274/9

Leach and Bashir have added 28 so far...after 7 wickets had fallen for 51. Pitch , good bowling and all, but that is a bit of an indictment of England's better bats on a spinning pitch. Still 76 behind...every run counts

All done...Seven for the excellent Sajid, a 75 run lead. A happy home team walking off. Now let us see what England can do with the ball...

Bowled out trailing by 75. Really useful last wicket partnership, keeps England in with a fighting chance.

Sajid bowled very well when the pitch went,but I think England were guilty of a lack of application and a slowness to adapt to the worsening conditions. It's turning, but not yet a minefield.

Pakistan, whatever happens from here, have at least learnt the folly of their previous flat wicket approach. A result wicket, and winning the toss, has at last put them in a winning position.

England need to bowl Pakistan out for a maximum of 120, and exploit Pakistan's third innings troubles. But definitely advantage Pakistan at this stage.

Leach managed 30 odd that was expected from Smith as Eng manage the par score for 2nd inning
Pak a big lead of 75 runs . They need to balance between positive and proper cricket and score 200 to 225 which would be par for 3rd inning in my view

Mmm maybe Pakistan will collapse again. But they're well ahead in this game and on this pitch

There was a bit of grudge, pride , passion, I will show you in the old horse for leaving him out for the new pony as first spinner

Delighted to see Sajid take more wickets in that innings, in a fifth of the overs too, than his entire spell with Somerset in 2022 where he bowled dreadfully. Not bitter at all!

Here we go...Leach with the new ball. Can he strike early and sow some seeds of doubt in the Pakistan bats minds ?

Bashir too. Not easy starting against spin on this and already we see one rather risky shot attempted...Ayub rather got away with that.

A review works for England! Could have easily seen that 'spike' not being big enough to overturn the on field decision.

But it was enough. Another low opening partnership for these two, and the door ajar for England.

Still recovering from the shock of a Successful England Review Good work from Smith to snaffle the catch too...The start England were after.

Think the TV umpire got it right. Spike was minimal but matched well with the visual and I reckon showing a faint edge. Going to be a few difficult decisions on this pitch going forward so getting the reviews right may be crucial.