England V Australia Saturday 9th November

First topic message reminder :

After the disappointment of the NZ defeat what team should we play against the Wallabies? A defeat in this match would be an undoubted disaster and of course the boys need some confidence before taking on the mighty SA so a decent performance and a victory are the must have requirements.

We cannot afford another scrummaging disaster so surely Marler has to return at the expense of Baxter? He needs a hit out to get ready for the bomb squad. I would also love to replace Dombrandt with Willis. Anything else?

England team to face Australia: G Furbank; I Feyi-Waboso, O Lawrence, H Slade, T Freeman; M Smith, B Spencer; E Genge, J George, W Stuart, M Itoje, G Martin, C Cunningham-South, T Curry, B Earl.

Replacements: L Cowan-Dickie, F Baxter, D Cole, N Isiekwe, A Dombrandt, H Randall, G Ford, O Sleightholme.

Australia: Wright; Kellaway, Suaalii, Ikitau, Pietsch; Lolesio, Gordon; Bell, Faessler, Tupou, Frost, Williams, Valetini, McReight, Wilson (capt).

Replacements: Paenga-Amosa, Slipper, Alaalatoa, Salakaia-Loto, Gleeson, McDermott, Donaldson, Jorgensen.

It's not good when you watch your team and just feel constantly annoyed.

Shoulder to head - must review that surely?

Red card surly!

We are so loose.

Where was the TMO?

Rugby Fan wrote:It's not good when you watch your team and just feel constantly annoyed.

Getting towards volcanic fury at this point. Why have they just run down the blindside again?!

Also England lose the ball forwards due to an Oz player lying all over the tackled player preventing him from placing the ball back and he give them a knock-on advantage ...

Great turn around by England.
Interesting last ten or so minutes.

England still need another score, I reckon. Not backing England's defence to keep it at 28.

So many errors from us.

Duty281 wrote:England still need another score, I reckon. Not backing England's defence to keep it at 28.

100% agree. I didn't think we'd knocked it on. Feels a big decision in the context of the game.

That wasn't a knock-on by England - ball came off Oz foot

Corrected by TMO - well done

Lovely England try. Needed some spark and it came from that quick lineout. Smith at 15 offers that, Ford running the dummy back to the openside so that the defence isn't drifting across to Dombrandt.

We're doing it again! Trying to see the game out with far too long left on the clock.

FFS!!

So predictable

This game has been ridiculous.

Now don't flipping balls it up!

Nuts game.

Did that go forwards?

Elbow down by the Oz prop first - should have been a pen for England

As I said earlier FFS

Bye bye Borthwick

Pathetic from England, defence has been crap all game.

No way….

Nice offload to win it, but England's defence was garbage throughout, and many of the forwards had no energy for the final 10/15. Awful defeat to a poor Australian team. The RL convert looks like he belongs.

Rubbish from England again but not sure about the calls after the last England try - Itoje ball went backwards and Oz prop went to ground in scrum ... but England still have to take the blame for that horror show

Defence was diabolical. Really bad but most of that is down to players. Blame coaches but they aren't on field.
Everyone wanted England to attack more and score tries but that defensive effort was shocking.

Heaf wrote:Shoulder to head - must review that surely?

Apparently cards are optional for SH teams playing England.

DON'T STEP IN OUT WIDE! It's a basic rule for defending. If you step in YOU HAVE to take man and ball. Furbank didn't do it earlier and Smith hasn't done it at the death there. It's two on two just don't step in. Trust your inside defence. The tackle was being made. Just wait, trust, have patience.

What a finish. Great win by Australia.
Are they gonna come good on this tour.
Great guts and determination and the end.
Looked like it was englands game.

mountain man wrote:Defence was diabolical. Really bad but most of that is down to players. Blame coaches but they aren't on field.
Everyone wanted England to attack more and score tries but that defensive effort was shocking.

Australia watched last week's game and knew where the weaknesses were in the system, and they exploited them effectively.

Once again, England fail to close out a game.

O'Keefe screws England over again with incorrect scrum decisions. That third try was foot in touch too.
When England keep the ball they start to look good but kicked too much away against a very green looking Oz team but who did spread it around and took their chances.
That's a much worse defeat than last week.

Cracking game of rugby. Well done to both sides for the entertaining game. Certainly entertained me

Wallabies had done their homework and beat Englands blitz and England never found a defensive shape to cage the Aus attack after that.

Great game from Smith. Very good in attack at finding the space. He needs players outside him to use it but thats a great attacking game from him. Best I have seen. Defense still a bit suspect but his control was not bad either.

England forwards found to be a bit off the pace? Some of those long periods of play saw some tired looking forwards

In the end a couple of lovely touches from Aus made the difference. Some great offloads and a willingness to attack from anywhere

I wouldn't be too discouraged as an England fan - the only thing missing was what to do in defense if the blitzing is being beaten. Who is the defensive organiser? Thats the best Aus have played for a good few years

The contact on Sleightholme was a clear yellow, at least, but wasn't followed up, and one of Australia's tries had a clear foot in touch. Wasn't a good day for the officials. The TMO was really keen to try and rule out CCS's second try though!

South Africa next week. I think England need to win it after this defeat, otherwise serious questions will be asked of Borthwick. I don't think another gallant defeat will be gratefully received. And if England get smashed...

England's blitz defence was exploited time and again. Either with chips or drives around the ruck. The worrying thing was England didn't adapt to this at any point.

Pretty much all the backs - perhaps bar Smith - look a step down from where they are for their clubs and even for England at the end of the six nations. I don't recall Furbank or Freeman touching the ball, really, and some of the skills were appalling. Coaching must be a factor.

Changes need to be made. Slade has to go.
Cole past it.

Can't blame ref, England architects of own downfall.

Poorfour wrote:

mountain man wrote:Defence was diabolical. Really bad but most of that is down to players. Blame coaches but they aren't on field.
Everyone wanted England to attack more and score tries but that defensive effort was shocking.

Australia watched last week's game and knew where the weaknesses were in the system, and they exploited them effectively.

Once again, England fail to close out a game.

So, does England have the players to be able to close out a Test match?
If not is it the coaches?
Or is it team culture at the moment?

So far, I've deleted three sarky posts, so I'll just leave this as a placeholder.

mountain man wrote:Can't blame ref, England architects of own downfall.

They're not mutually exclusive- both were rubbish

England defence a complete shambles - is this the impact of Felix Jones moving on? And so many individual errors. Over 30 tackles missed.

But huge congrats to Aus for playing such an awesome match. They attacked all game and scored some terrific tries.

We again have no forward dominance and I cannot remember the last time we managed to get a forward drive going....when did we last catch and drive a try?

I am stunned that the shoulder to the face of Sleightholme wasn't even looked at. Poor from the ref and the TMO.

Whatever we say about England, Australia are good value to watch if you're a neutral. We NEED some better skills in the backs. George Ford's pass to Lawrence was woeful.

In defence of ford he's played next to no rugby and is being asked to come on and see out an international match. He's being put in a situation where he's bound to fail

hugehandoff wrote:England defence a complete shambles - is this the impact of Felix Jones moving on? And so many individual errors. Over 30 tackles missed.

I would say its more than Aus read the blitz well and negated it. Once that happened some players lost faith in the blitz or were told not to leading to a disorganised defensive line. Also the pace with which Aus attacked led to little time to align. I though they would sort that out at half time but did not.

Mr Bounce wrote:I am stunned that the shoulder to the face of Sleightholme wasn't even looked at. Poor from the ref and the TMO.

Whatever we say about England,  Australia are good value to watch if you're a neutral. We NEED some better skills in the backs. George Ford's pass to Lawrence was woeful.

Blaming the ref is irrelevant....England were woeful yet again (I appreciate that the ref may have missed a few things, but Austin clearly thought we were lucky with 2 pens in the 1st half which we converted into 6 points). Ford's pass was poor but Lawrence overran it. So many players had poor games. It is all our own fault.

carpet baboon wrote:In defence of ford he's played next to no rugby and is being asked to come on and see out an international match. He's being put in a situation where he's bound to fail

So why play him when Fin Smith is available and fit and firing?

I am stunned that the shoulder to the face of Sleightholme wasn't even looked at. Poor from the ref and the TMO.

I am sure it was checked in the background. I did not see it myself. Not all head contact is foul play

carpet baboon wrote:In defence of ford he's played next to no rugby and is being asked to come on and see out an international match. He's being put in a situation where he's bound to fail

So that would be a clear coaching issue?