The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

First topic message reminder :

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the Tommy Bowe photo on the bar. That's a banning offence

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?

roddersm wrote:Thats a shame you feel that way stag. Many people I know in the south were cheering for McIlroy to win, as were people across the political spectrum up here.

If the next superstar of Golf is from County Down then thats fantastic for Irish Golf, not just NI.

Rodders, I think you’re taking things out of context. Stag has already said he was delighted Rory won, we all are, every person on the island would have wanted a win for him. But we can’t claim any national pride from his win. I think that’s all there is to it really.

It will be good for Irish golf no doubt but Ireland have no more claim to his success than Britain. This was a victory for Northern Ireland, no matter what your political persuasion is, Ireland shouldn’t cheaply hang on the coat tails of this success.

Stag, you might have felt closer to Harrington's win but it doesn't Irish people both sides of the border don't feel an affinity towards him.

Sure look at the Greatest Irish Sportspersons poll RTE did a few years ago. In the top four, there were two people from Northern Ireland.

Morning all, pretty tired after decided to stay up and watch the presenation and speeches!! Training starts this wednesday so it's back to the rugby for me (shoulder permitting)!!

MBTGOG, I haven't said anything about other people or tried to convince anyone my way is right. Just that this is how I (and clearly others) feel about it. I do feel some affinity towards McIlroy and wanted him to win.

red_stag wrote:Morning all. Well done to McIlroy. Notch you say its great for Northern Ireland and Ireland. I don't follow that if I'm being honest. Obviously it is an amazing moment for Northern Irish sport. Outstanding golfing achievement. But I only ever seen Northern Irish flags when he plays. I mean for example his Dad was waving the Northern Irish flag last night, beside his name he has the N.I. flag. Will Ireland as a whole benefit to the same extent that N.Ireland will.

Don't know if that was clear. Anyway well done to Rory on a serious achievement.

At the end of the day, the guy is British and Irish. That's how he sees himself; he's spoken of his desire to win the Irish Open in front of his home crowd, he's also indicated he could represent Britain at the Olympics. Are you not proud to see an Irishman achieve greatness? It matters not to you that a guy born just hours away from your own corner of this island we share is dominating his opponents in historic fashion?

It's your point of view I don't understand, because when Harrington won his majors I was dancing around the room with delight and pride. Harrington, McDowell, McIlroy- they belong to all of us.

When I've gone down to Dublin, I've had taxi drivers talk to me in awestruck tones about Georgie Best. The most strident Leinster/Irish poster in this pub takes his name after Mike Gibson, the great Ulster and Ireland centre!

I find your point of view really depressing.

Notch, to me rugby is very different and not in any way relevant.

Mickado I hear what you are saying but lets face it Golf is an individual sport so we are all hanging on his coattails to some extent. Like I say I respect Stags point of view but I think some people are politicising some thing that is apolitcal here. Geographically speaking McIlroy is from the same Island, so everyone in Ireland should be able to feel a bit of national pride without feeling that they are coattailing.

Am I coattailing if I feel a sense of National pride when Leinster or Munster win the HEC?

england squad announced:

https://www.606v2.com/t7538-england-wc-training-squad

Well said Notch.

Stag,

Why is rugby different and in no way relevant?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/5168368/Financial-struggling-Samoa-hope-for-RWC-boost

Interesting article this. While for most, people don't even think about this, Samoa are struggling to make up the 2 MILLION New Zealand dollars needed to compete at the tournament.

I really can't see the squad sizes increasing for the time being.

Rodders and Notch, I take your point and I’ve changed my mind. But to be honest I can’t feel any happier for the lad as it is. I’m already chuffed, I just thought claiming him as “one of mine” would be a bit cheeky.

Suppose, anyone that drinks jagerbombs out of the Ryder Cup is definitely “one of mine”!

As terms like Rep of Ireland, Northern Ireland, Britain etc are not used. Tricolours and Northern Ireland flags are not the done thing. We don't use our countries we use the Island.

McIlroy waves Northern Irish flags when he wins, his father was waving them, he has a Northern Irish flag beside his name. To me he is neither British nor Irish. I see him as Northern Irish - meaning I have an affinity towards him but the achievements of someone like Harrington mean more to me.

I really am sorry if that offends anyone.

For me it's the exact same Stag. I've been known to celebrate wins by the other Irish provinces with incredible enthusiasm- there's no link to Northern Ireland, but I am both Northern Irish and Irish.

Mickado, Ireland has no need to hang onto the coattails of his success- it has been fundamental in it. It wasn't just Northern Ireland McIlroy competed and learned in when he first took up the sport. It was the whole of Ireland; multiple victories in the West of Ireland Championship and the Irish Close Championship helping him on his way in his pre-professional days. He served his apprenticeship on both sides of the border, he's as much a product of the Irish Golf scene as the N. Irish golf scene and his victory belongs to everyone in the South every bit as much as everyone in the North. Which is to say, slightly less so in an individual sport.

Rory as already played for Ireland in the world cup of golf so that's enough for me. And to be honest i much prefer to see him waving a NI flag than a union jack.


Anyway congratulations to the young lad hopefully he can kick on and become more consistent. One third of all his titles have been majors.

Mick,

I think the point is that he is not "one of mine" but one of ours.

Very glad to hear that Mick! I was feeling like a coattailer there for being inspired by Roy Keane, Bernard Dunne, Sonia O'Sullivan, Brian O'Driscoll ,Paul O'Connell and co

red_stag wrote:As terms like Rep of Ireland, Northern Ireland, Britain etc are not used. Tricolours and Northern Ireland flags are not the done thing. We don't use our countries we use the Island.

McIlroy waves Northern Irish flags when he wins, his father was waving them, he has a Northern Irish flag beside his name. To me he is neither British nor Irish. I see him as Northern Irish - meaning I have an affinity towards him but the achievements of someone like Harrington mean more to me.

I really am sorry if that offends anyone.

Well does the fact he came through the same tournaments in the Republic of Ireland, served the same apprenticeship as golfers down there, mean anything to you?

hughie1986 wrote:Rory as already played for Ireland in the world cup of golf

Game, set and match

To be fair, at Irish rugby matches, you'll see plenty of Tri-colours, while the Irish national anthem is sung when playing south of the border.

Interesting article Munsty. Finances have been a problem for Fiji too, on top of their other problems. Interesting point in
here suggesting up to 6 soldiers were in the running for squad places, but would be barred from NZ due to sanctions.

Minnows and finances might be worth their own article. Though I seem to recall a debate with someone (can't remember who) last year or in 2009 on old 606 who couldn't grasp the concept that a small population + geographic isolation = much smaller economy

Notch wrote:

hughie1986 wrote:Rory as already played for Ireland in the world cup of golf

Game, set and match

He played tennis as well? wow, talented lad!

Lads, as I’ve said I feel no better for him (was already chuffed to bits), but I feel more comfortable being outwardly happy for him. If that makes any sense.

Kiwi,

It might be but as you say, you find that not that many people are very knowledgeable on the subject.

Though I suppose that's the reason of starting the article.

Notch, I know nothing about his backgrounds or statements he has made. I'm a casual fan of golf and watched the tournament last night and Saturday and I just found myself feeling that way as I did.

Just checking for an Irish golf association and there is a Golfing Union of Ireland, which takes in the whole island.

MBTGOG wrote:To be fair, at Irish rugby matches, you'll see plenty of Tri-colours, while the Irish national anthem is sung when playing south of the border.

I've been to plenty of Irish rugby matches where there are Tricolours AND Ulster Banners have been flown.

I have no problem with the tricolour personally; the Ulster Banner is a more complex issue. It's not been the official flag of Northern Ireland since the 1970s and I feel it's continued use is sport is inappropriate as there are many in NI who don't feel it represents them, and never have. Rory McIlroy- a Northern Irish Catholic- is happy to be identified with it though, which just shows in many sectors of society it's has no negative connotations. I don't think he would get behind a Union Jack. I still feel we suffer from not having a flag for Northern Ireland is bad; we only have a flag that is obsolete and out-dated.

I had a great idea for a flag for Northern Ireland. See, the new Northern Ireland is about peace between the nationalist/republican and Unonist/Loyalist traditions. So I thought we could have a flag that is green, white and orange to symbolize both traditions and the peace between them.

Eh... wait. Maybe we do have far more in common with the rest of Ireland than some thought!

red_stag wrote:Notch, I know nothing about his backgrounds or statements he has made. I'm a casual fan of golf and watched the tournament last night and Saturday and I just found myself feeling that way as I did.

I'm not a big golf fan either stag but I know he's from Holywood, Down. If he wore Tricolour underpants or Union jack pyjamas then it wouldn't change the enjoyment I've got from seeing him win and in the manner he has.

Notch,

Maybe you could turn the colours the other way around?


Wait..........

I was posting this last night not my battery died while I was writing it, how can lee Westwood and Luke donald be considered the worlds best golfer (previous and current world number 1s) without winning a major??

The atmosphere around golf revolves around the majors and just as in tennis you are judged on how many of the big ones you've won. I just feel that you can't be regarded as the worlds best I'd you've not won one

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:Notch, I know nothing about his backgrounds or statements he has made. I'm a casual fan of golf and watched the tournament last night and Saturday and I just found myself feeling that way as I did.

I'm not a big golf fan either stag but I know he's from Holywood, Down. If he wore Tricolour underpants or Union jack pyjamas then it wouldn't change the enjoyment I've got from seeing him win and in the manner he has.

Very wise words. The truth is Stag isn't necessarily wrong. His point of view and gut feelings are valid and should be respected. But Rory is as much a product of Ireland and Irish sport as Stephen Ferris or even- dare I say?- someone like Darron Gibson in my view.

The relationship between Northern Ireland, Ulster, Ireland, Britain and Europe is an exceptionally complex one. But there is more that unites us than divides us. In sport, politics, economics- the two Irelands are intertwined and co-dependent. We should celebrate that relationship.

It is the same as tennis, Hughie. Caroline Wozniacki is women's number one even though she's never won a Major.

Just saw on facebook, Discover Ireland using that to talk about McIlroy and mention the golf courses up here in the North. Discover Ireland (the body set-up to promote tourism in Ireland, North and South) are an organisation that would get funding from both sides of the border to promote tourism on our island and if they can use someone like McIlroy as a draw, that would be wonderful.

It's been so nice to have this debate in a civilized and good humoured spirit

Stag, don't feel we're all hounding you. You go ahead and feel whatever way you want to feel, so long as you're ok with Paddy Wallace starting at 12 in the RWC

Just a point on the flag issue. G-Mac and Rory have both waved and stood behind the tricolour at the Ryder Cup and Rory has actually raised the same flag at certain ceremonies. Thats not to say he isnt Northern Irish but rather that it matters not to him

https://www.606v2.com/f31-golf

I'm not a big golf fan either stag but I know he's from Holywood, Down. If he wore Tricolour underpants or Union jack pyjamas then it wouldn't change the enjoyment I've got from seeing him win and in the manner he has. [/quote]


Spot on. Chuffed for Rory. At his age and the manner of which he won, dominating all 4 days. Especially after Augusta. A great achievment. I don't know what it is with the majors. I don't play golf and don't watch it on the telly, but when it comes to the big tourneys, I'm hooked. During the last Ryder cup I was a bag of nerves watching it!

Its ok guys. I don't feel hounded at all. I fully appreciate that most people wouldn't feel as I do and I certainly won't be trying to change anyones mind.

I just see Northern Irish players as competitors the same way I would view their soccer team. Its not something that happens in rugby.

Hobo there is no need to direct us to the golf page, this is what we do in here we talk mostly rugby but also whatever else comes up. We know the golf page is there don't worry

Anyway, this isn't really a golfing chat. This is a sense of nationality discussion.

Can anyone tell me a sport apart from football and athletics that Ireland is partitioned?

hughie1986 wrote:Can anyone tell me a sport apart from football and athletics that Ireland is partitioned?

Athletics is partitioned sort of, but not really. I know first hand the two Athletics associations on the island co-operate a lot and that NI athletes often compete in all-Ireland competition. Many do go on to represent Ireland, some go on to represent the UK. Some of the Athletics NI youth programmes take in the three Ulster counties in the South with the full support of Athletics Ireland.

In football, players from NI are also eligible to represent the Republic of Ireland and actually it can cut the other way as well. Football is by far the most divided sport, rugby is amongst the least divided, but I do feel like sport- Irish Sport- is becoming more cross-border.

Even in football, they started up the Setanta Cup as a cross-border club competition. Go back a few pages and check out Gibsons post on irish sport. Says it all for me.

hughie1986 wrote: how can lee Westwood and Luke donald be considered the worlds best golfer (previous and current world number 1s) without winning a major??

I can understand that viewpoint Huggy. I remember Greg Norman being asked in the 80’s how he felt about not yet winning a major. He said he wasn’t worried as loads of great golfers had not won majors. The interviewer asked him to name some – he couldn’t

The flip side, however, is there have been a few very ‘average’ golfers how have won majors. Here’s a few
The Open – Rogers, Lawrie, Hamilton, Curtis
Masters – Mize, Wier, Immelman
USPGA – Beem, Micheel, Brooks, Grady
US Open – Glover, Campbell, Jones, Simpson

The World #1 ranking is more a measure of consistently acheiving very good results , than anything else

Its like NZ haven't won a World Cup for 24 years yet are widely regarded as the best international team and have consistently been ranked officially as #1.

It brings up the age old discussion of "Does the best team always win?" to which I will always give a resounding No!

Ulster Rugby have officially congratulated Rory McIlroy;

http://www.ulsterrugby.com/news/9470.php

Check out the pic- two legends of Irish sport!

Notch, sure he bankrolls the team they had to

At the time that picture was taken both were nobodies. Now one of them has proven their calibre. The other just needs to make the step up now

Notch wrote:

hughie1986 wrote:Can anyone tell me a sport apart from football and athletics that Ireland is partitioned?

Athletics is partitioned sort of, but not really. I know first hand the two Athletics associations on the island co-operate a lot and that NI athletes often compete in all-Ireland competition. Many do go on to represent Ireland, some go on to represent the UK. Some of the Athletics NI youth programmes take in the three Ulster counties in the South with the full support of Athletics Ireland.

In football, players from NI are also eligible to represent the Republic of Ireland and actually it can cut the other way as well. Football is by far the most divided sport, rugby is amongst the least divided, but I do feel like sport- Irish Sport- is becoming more cross-border.

Even in football, they started up the Setanta Cup as a cross-border club competition. Go back a few pages and check out Gibsons post on irish sport. Says it all for me.

What page Notch? I've searched and can't see anything...

This is it Mickado;

Gibson wrote:I know this may sound trite, but, as is my wont - I dont give a damn.

I love the fact that the 4 provinces are one in Rugby, golf teams, boxing et al. Sports we over-excel at for our size. We need Ulster. Ulster need us - in sport. It makes us so much stronger. Combine it and anything is possible. Imagine.

NOT politics - just Sport. A common human-bond that transcends all.
The whole of Ireland and all Paddies (North & South) - everywhere in the World - are with him
right now. Sharing in the pride for such a small island. I think that's beautiful.

Believe

Oh MY God! What a shot.

Right, I've really got to go now lads!

red_stag wrote:
At the time that picture was taken both were nobodies. Now one of them has proven their calibre. The other just needs to make the step up now

Thats harsh on rory stag!

Not much of a surprise that Matt Stevens has been included in England's World Cup training squad - he's still quality.

Mouritz Botha's been called up, too. He's fugly.

I do genuinely wish we could have one soccer team. Both sides have the resources stretched too far on their own really.

MBTGOG wrote:I do genuinely wish we could have one soccer team. Both sides have the resources stretched too far on their own really.

Agree.