My Top 50 boxers of all time list

by The genius of PBF Tue 21 Jun 2011, 7:43 am

First topic message reminder :

1. Floyd Mayweather Jr
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Sugar Ray Leonard
7. Benny Leonard
8. Willie Pep
9. Tommy Hearns
10. Pernell Whitaker
11. Lennox Lewis
12. Joe Louis
13. Sam Langford
14. Gene Tunney
15. Ezzard Charles
16. Eder Jofre
17. Stanley Ketchel
18. Jack Johnson
19. Joe Gans
20. Bob Fitzsimmons
21. Roberto Duran
22. Bernard Hopkins
23. Marvin Hagler
24. Jimmy Wilde
25. Manny Pacquiao
26. Ricardo Lopez
27. Archie Moore
28. Barney Ross
29. Tony Canzoneri
30. Oscar De La Hoya
31. Roy Jones Junior
33. Alexis Arguello
33. Aaron Pryor
34. Mickey Walker
35. Sandy Saddler
36. Jake LaMotta
37. Evander Holyfield
38. Carlos Monzon
39. Larry Holmes
40. George Foreman
41. Julio Cesar Chavez
42. Charley Burley
43. Jack Dempsey
44. Michael Spinks
45. Ted Lewis
46. Joe Frazier
47. Salvador Sanchez
48. Erik Morales
49. Don Curry
50. Juan Manuel Marquez

Feel free to criticise my list. Add who you want on the list and who you dont. If im convinced I might change the list. You can also produce your own top 50 list.

by Imperial Ghosty Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:10 am

Ok he didn't face McCallum but fighting Hearns and Hagler instead is hardly taking an easy option is it

by captain carrantuohil Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:13 am

Agreed, and he wasn't the only one not to like the cut of McCallum's jib, either. Manny Steward would be another....

by Imperial Ghosty Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:15 am

Would have beaten Duran, Hearns, Benitez and Leonard for me McCallum, Hagler at his best may have been a bridge too far but a top quality operator who nobody needed

by Mind the windows Tino. Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:17 am

rowley wrote:To visit the oft discussed topic of Duran's standing for me I actually agree that he is ranked a little high on many occasions but if there are times I do not consider him a top ten guy for me he is certainly in the top 15. To be honest he earned this once he beat a top five welter in his pomp because as Ghosty says this is one of the best wins ever. The comment about it being controversial are just plain wrong, close is not the same as controversial. The other point I would pick up on is the DeJesus fight. Yes he lost but he went 2-1 in the series so proved himself the better man. Ross lost to McLarnin and Ali lost to Frazier however as they both won the other two do not hold those losses against them guys so would seem unfair to hold Duran to a higher standard.

Post Leonard I see his career as an ageing guy operating outside his optimum weight who's form was a little patchy, however at middle the same could be said of Robinson but his body of work at his best is sufficient to not put too much stock in this so again will not hold Duran up to a different standard. His reign at lightweight coupled with a truly terrific win over Leonard seal his greatness for me and his form after neither add or detract to his leagcy IMO.

I am ignoring this clear attempt at a wind up. I am exercising my right of personal choice and self discipline.

by Rowley Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:22 am

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
rowley wrote:To visit the oft discussed topic of Duran's standing for me I actually agree that he is ranked a little high on many occasions but if there are times I do not consider him a top ten guy for me he is certainly in the top 15. To be honest he earned this once he beat a top five welter in his pomp because as Ghosty says this is one of the best wins ever. The comment about it being controversial are just plain wrong, close is not the same as controversial. The other point I would pick up on is the DeJesus fight. Yes he lost but he went 2-1 in the series so proved himself the better man. Ross lost to McLarnin and Ali lost to Frazier however as they both won the other two do not hold those losses against them guys so would seem unfair to hold Duran to a higher standard.

Post Leonard I see his career as an ageing guy operating outside his optimum weight who's form was a little patchy, however at middle the same could be said of Robinson but his body of work at his best is sufficient to not put too much stock in this so again will not hold Duran up to a different standard. His reign at lightweight coupled with a truly terrific win over Leonard seal his greatness for me and his form after neither add or detract to his leagcy IMO.

I am ignoring this clear attempt at a wind up. I am exercising my right of personal choice and self discipline.

Often the best policy with my comments

by captain carrantuohil Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:25 am

I certainly think that he would have beaten Duran and Benitez, and have always thought that Hearns was made to measure for McCallum's style, particularly in a 15 round bout, Ghosty. Leonard's record at 154 was scanty and spotty (Kalule, Howard and Norris, basically), but I'm bound to say that if his performance against Kalule, when he was in his prime, is any guide, he'd have had his hands full with the Bodysnatcher. One of the what if fights that I would most like to have seen, is Leonard-McCallum. Don't see Mike beating Hagler, mind you. Mike was clearly a lesser fighter at 160 than he had been at 154 and I would expect Marvin to have imposed himself en route to a pretty clear decision.

by Imperial Ghosty Wed 22 Jun 2011, 10:28 am

Hard person to place McCallum, didn't make his name in one the marquee divisions and failed to get the big fights until he was well past his best

by kevchadders Wed 22 Jun 2011, 1:18 pm

Scottrf wrote:Mayweather is too low, otherwise a good list.

agreed!

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 2:14 pm

No one ever took you seriously on the bbc 606 or on here, especially with some of the ridiculous things you used to come out with such as Cotto would beat Floyd Mayweather etc.
.........................
thanks very much, i have seen quoted over the past few days people on here saying they can;t take you serious, knew it was only a matter of time haha, don't take me serious on old 606 ? you were the last one on there making 2 bob articles talking about coxy? haha and you call other people obsessed. I don't get obsessed with over aggressive obsessive Mayweather fans, trust me. Keep trying to wum though, it aint working here haha Yahoo

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 2:18 pm

Marquez was ineffective at 144 because of Floyd Mayweather's skill and talent not down to weight. Marquez would destroy Cotto at 147 and beat some of the contenders at 147 like Berto.
..................
Cotto would walk all over Marquez @ 147, Marquez hadn't had a fight at welterweight, we know you don't really think Marquez would beat Cotto, it's just wum tactics, i know this. I just don't see how a fat slow lightweight could push back someone of the boxing ability of Cotto, who would absolutely demolish him, Pacquiao's gonna do a better job than Mayweather though haha Very Happy

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 4:12 pm

"Carpenter said Curry quit"....Well the fight was covered by iTV in this country.and Reg Gutteridge...

Don't lie....

The Doctor stopped the fight Curry didn't quit..

So please don't insult a great fighter..

Tell the truth.

by coxy0001 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 4:32 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:"Carpenter said Curry quit"....Well the fight was covered by iTV in this country.and Reg Gutteridge...

Don't lie....

The Doctor stopped the fight Curry didn't quit..

So please don't insult a great fighter..

Tell the truth.

Truth was he took a beating, a bad beating. Does the truth still hurt?

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 4:36 pm

He took a beating but this kid said he quit...he didn't!!

Learn to read..

by coxy0001 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 4:38 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He took a beating but this kid said he quit...he didn't!!

Learn to read..

Was just informing you of the truth in case you forgot... which seemed kinda silly as you haven't let it go for all these years

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 4:40 pm

Look..I know he got beat but there is a difference between accusing someone of being a quitter like Nigel Benn and the Doctor stopping it..

Go and find davide..he's more your level..

by coxy0001 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 4:43 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Look..I know he got beat but there is a difference between accusing someone of being a quitter like Nigel Benn and the Doctor stopping it..

Go and find davide..he's more your level..

I'm taking the mick, i know American's don't pick up such things without it smacking them in the face in a dumbed down format but oh well!

Trotting on.

by BALTIMORA Wed 22 Jun 2011, 4:45 pm

I don't understand why a boxer quitting is necessarily always a negative trait. I'd rather see a guy acknowledge the other guy is better than him than see a guy stand and have his head broken.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 4:50 pm

Quitting has always been frowned upon in any sport...

Winners don't quit and quitters don't win etc..

Viewed as a sign of weakness...

Curry didn't quit end of.

by BALTIMORA Wed 22 Jun 2011, 4:55 pm

In cases of injury it's more stupidity and bravado than anything else when guys continue. I'm not swayed by the macho BS.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 4:59 pm

Obligation to the fans, will to win, heart, courage.....

is it stupid to have those things........

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 5:10 pm

"Carpenter said Curry quit"....Well the fight was covered by iTV in this country.and Reg Gutteridge...

Don't lie....

The Doctor stopped the fight Curry didn't quit..

So please don't insult a great fighter..

Tell the truth.
///////////////////////////////
Don't lie? i've got a DVD here of a past Honeyghan fight i think it's the Blocker fight and Carpenter says he really shocked everyone when he made Donald Curry quit, Honeyghan said he quit as well.

I don't lie, i tell the truth, and the truth is he was in no way a great, he had absolutely no heart whatsoever and was target practice for McCallum, Honeyghan, then got starched by Nunn and Norris, he's a overrated past fighter, that's all. There's no way a 'great' gets absolutely battered and his nose smashed up, while just moving around slowly holding on with his hands up. Also what did he do after Honeyghan apart from beat a bum in Italy who Honeyghan had stopped years earlier?

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 5:18 pm

Honey said a lot of things like "Curry was scared of him".."Starling was going to get hammered"..

Carpenter was British....watch the Bruno-Tyson fight and then tell me I should respect this Man..

Official verdict was stoped by the Doctor..it's official..

Now stop it.

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 5:27 pm

Honey said a lot of things like "Curry was scared of him".."Starling was going to get hammered"..

Carpenter was British....watch the Bruno-Tyson fight and then tell me I should respect this Man..

Official verdict was stoped by the Doctor..it's official..

Now stop it
..........................................
Curry was scared of him, he got battered, tell me why i should think he wasn't scared after that humiliating beating he got?

Carpenter's a legend R.I.P 'Get in there Frank' . Quit on his stool after 6 rounds

by Rowley Wed 22 Jun 2011, 5:31 pm

Dear god does anyone actually give a monkeys. It was a fight that happened nearly 30 years ago, Honeyghan won, the manner is largely irrelevant and is only ever bought up as an excuse to wind Truss up.

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 5:34 pm

Dear god does anyone actually give a monkeys. It was a fight that happened nearly 30 years ago, Honeyghan won, the manner is largely irrelevant and is only ever bought up as an excuse to wind Truss up.
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I'm not winding anyone up, he calls Benn for quitting, Curry did, Curry had no heart whatsoever, he wouldn't of climbed off the ropes and battered McClellan.

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 5:54 pm

Young_Towzer wrote:Marquez was ineffective at 144 because of Floyd Mayweather's skill and talent not down to weight. Marquez would destroy Cotto at 147 and beat some of the contenders at 147 like Berto.
..................
Cotto would walk all over Marquez @ 147, Marquez hadn't had a fight at welterweight, we know you don't really think Marquez would beat Cotto, it's just wum tactics, i know this. I just don't see how a fat slow lightweight could push back someone of the boxing ability of Cotto, who would absolutely demolish him, Pacquiao's gonna do a better job than Mayweather though haha

Marquez has more boxing ability than Cotto and more heart, would completly utterly destroy him. Like in the first two fights when Marquez beat Pacquiao.

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:04 pm

Marquez has more boxing ability than Cotto and more heart, would completly utterly destroy him. Like in the first two fights when Marquez beat Pacquiao.
.........................
He wouldn't, Miguel would give him a good, good hiding haha. Hasn't done nothing at WW, wasn't Miguel a world champ who battered Quintana, Judah, Mosley, mmmm thought so. Yawn, yawn yawn haha but didn't Pacquiao drop him 4 times and draw and win? Very Happy

i thought so. Haha Wink

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:08 pm

He's a 15 yr old boy who won't admit he's wrong...

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:12 pm

He's a 15 yr old boy who won't admit he's wrong...
................
I was 13 the other day wasn't i ? lol
21 year old man who is right

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:12 pm

Imperial Ghosty wrote:If you were a challenge PBF I wouldn't be able to have you tripping over yourself here there and everywhere would I? Truss is slightly different as I take him with good humour as unlike you his words are his own, not plagarised from elsewhere, lets be brutally honest for a second you didn't have a clue who Marcel was before I mentioned him did you?

As for Hearns beating Duran at any weight, yes any weight he could make but not every weight that Duran could make, Hearns would have near killed himself to get down to 135lbs and would be the equivalent of the walking dead.

Duran beating Leonard at Welterweight is in my opinion among the top 5 wins of all time and no amount of back tracking is going to change that, you constantly mention Leonard fighting the wrong fight but why was that? It was because Duran got into his head and made him fight that way, mental strength is a big part of boxing and Leonard showed a lot of weakness in being dragged into a brawl with someone like Duran. We could say for anyone that they fought the wrong fight but it doesn't prove anything

Hatton is a borderling top ten Light Welterweight purely because it's a division thats primarily been used as a stepping stone between lightweight and welterweight, based on ability Hatton would be nowhere near a top ten spot

Due to limited footage of the old timers, reading about them is the best way you can learn about them plus those articles was merely designed for debate or isn't that allowed now? I know who Marcel Cerdan was, keep thinking you won the debate though. thumbsup

Hatton is a top 10 great at light welter and has underrated boxing ability...Here is 5 wins better than Durans scraping a win over a below par Leonard.
Leonard vs Duran 2nd fight
Hearns vs Duran
Ali vs Foreman
Mayweather vs Corrales
Tunney vs Dempsey

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:13 pm

Mayweather vs Corrales better than a win over a fresh, unbeaten Leonard in Montreal?
I think that confirms what i've always said, that your just a bias wum, haha

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:14 pm

Young_Towzer wrote:Marquez has more boxing ability than Cotto and more heart, would completly utterly destroy him. Like in the first two fights when Marquez beat Pacquiao.
.........................
He wouldn't, Miguel would give him a good, good hiding haha. Hasn't done nothing at WW, wasn't Miguel a world champ who battered Quintana, Judah, Mosley, mmmm thought so. Yawn, yawn yawn haha but didn't Pacquiao drop him 4 times and draw and win? i thought so. Haha

Styles make fights Towzer Marquez has too much for Cotto...So Pacquiao needs 3 fights with Marquez to do better than Mayweather?

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:15 pm

Young_Towzer wrote:Mayweather vs Corrales better than a win over a prime, unbeaten Leonard in Montreal?
I think that confirms what i've always said, that your just a bias wum, haha

Duran barely beat a below par Leonard...Floyd Mayweather was a underdog and completly destroyed Corrales.

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:17 pm

Styles make fights Towzer Marquez has too much for Cotto...So Pacquiao needs 3 fights with Marquez to do better than Mayweather?
....................................
Didn't Pacquiao wipe Hatton out in 2 at his best weight after he had just battered Malignaggi? there both great fighters, and if they fight i'll enjoy it. I won't debate Mayweather/Pacquiao's achievements with you though, your too bias imo.

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:19 pm

Duran barely beat a below par Leonard...Floyd Mayweather was a underdog and completly destroyed Corrales.
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Give it up why you still have your dignity, make a poll, article asking which is the greatest, a win over a decent champ or a great in Leonard and the views will be unanimous for Leonard, i'd put money on that.

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:20 pm

coxy0001 wrote:Sod off. You're a disgrace to this place to be honest, and not many will disagree with me. "Marquez beats Cotto @ 147". you're a bit pathetic sunshine.

Yeah thats why you got voted off 606, your really a credit to this forum aren't you... Whistle

Difference is I come on here to debate boxing and you come on here looking for fights...Yeah Marquez does beat him at 147, your really great at picking fights aren't you?

Cotto and Hatton beat Pacquiao
Williams shuts out Martinez
Katsidis knocks out Marquez

Anymore mystic Coxy?

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:22 pm

Young_Towzer wrote:Styles make fights Towzer Marquez has too much for Cotto...So Pacquiao needs 3 fights with Marquez to do better than Mayweather?
....................................
Didn't Pacquiao wipe Hatton out in 2 at his best weight after he had just battered Malignaggi? there both great fighters, and if they fight i'll enjoy it. I won't debate Mayweather/Pacquiao's achievements with you though, your too bias imo.

Hatton was way past his best Towzer...he nearly got knocked out by Lazcano (spelling?)

Once Hatton got beat by Floyd Mayweather, he was never the same mentally or physically

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:24 pm

Young_Towzer wrote:Duran barely beat a below par Leonard...Floyd Mayweather was a underdog and completly destroyed Corrales.
////////////////////////
Give it up why you still have your dignity, make a poll, article asking which is the greatest, a win over a decent champ or a great in Leonard and the views will be unanimous for Leonard, i'd put money on that.

Feel free to make the article Young Towzer but it is my opinion. thumbsup

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:26 pm

Sod off. You're a disgrace to this place to be honest, and not many will disagree with me. "Marquez beats Cotto @ 147". you're a bit pathetic sunshine.
............................
Don't bite coxy mate, that's what he does it for, his obsession with Mayweather and 24/7 wumming makes him crave anger of people just blank him or laugh it off. I just look at him as a wum and laugh

by captain carrantuohil Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:26 pm

The genius of PBF wrote: I know who Ceran Marcel was, keep thinking you won the debate though.

You know who Ceran Marcel is? I'm afraid that you just proved exactly what you do know and it's not pretty. Marcel Cerdan, of whom you have apparently heard a little, was a middleweight of the 30s and 40s. Ernesto Marcel, of whom you have definitely heard nothing, was a featherweight champ of the 70s, who holds a decision over a 21 year-old Arguello.

It is sometimes best to keep silent, it really is.

by Young_Towzer Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:28 pm

It's been a mighty long day and I don't much care for the prospect of checking up on this all night to ensure that it remains good natured, so do an old man a favour and play nice will you, please ?
..............................
i second that windy, i second that haha

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:29 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:
The genius of PBF wrote: I know who Ceran Marcel was, keep thinking you won the debate though.

You know who Ceran Marcel is? I'm afraid that you just proved exactly what you do know and it's not pretty. Marcel Cerdan, of whom you have apparently heard a little, was a middleweight of the 30s and 40s. Ernesto Marcel, of whom you have definitely heard nothing, was a featherweight champ of the 70s, who holds a decision over a 21 year-old Arguello.

It is sometimes best to keep silent, it really is.

Spelling mistake Captain I was rushing through with replies, can happen to the best of us. Very Happy

by captain carrantuohil Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:31 pm

That's not a spelling mistake, that's names around the wrong way, wrong fighter and wrong division. Otherwise, you've convinced me, you know all about both fighters.....

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:35 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:That's not a spelling mistake, that's names around the wrong way, wrong fighter and wrong division. Otherwise, you've convinced me, you know all about both fighters.....

Yes captain but I believe someone on this thread said Marcel Cerdan should be added to the top 50 list which is why I got both mixed up.

by **Fists of Fury** Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:36 pm

Rather fundamental error, PBF.

by captain carrantuohil Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:37 pm

Now when you're floundering, call for a life jacket, not an anchor. The easiest thing is simply to admit your ignorance and move on, rather than compounding the error with lily-livered lies. It does tend to detract from the thrust of your argument, you know.

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:39 pm

captain carrantuohil wrote:Now when you're floundering, call for a life jacket, not an anchor. The easiest thing is simply to admit your ignorance and move on, rather than compounding the error with lily-livered lies. It does tend to detract from the thrust of your argument, you know.

How can it be lies when im telling the truth. Whistle

by lightsout Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:41 pm

Eric Morales can't get a place in your top 50....?

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:44 pm

lightsout wrote:Eric Morales can't get a place in your top 50....?

He was on there but Salvador Sanchez took his place

by The genius of PBF Wed 22 Jun 2011, 6:47 pm

Actually he is still on there, Sanchez took Starlings place if I remember.

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