Welsh World Cup Squad - Flyhalfs

First topic message reminder :

Steven Jones has been the incumbent flyhalf since Neil Jenkins retired back in 2001. Almost un-opposed and un-userped.

A few players have added pressure to him, even taken the chalice for a few games, which often encouraged the very best out of ol'Wellies.

The other contenders and I guess current favourite from the six nations are headed by james hook but the squad includes a number of lads who could make the position their own if given a run.

I guess that we would take two flyhalfs, Henson, Hook and Priestland can all play multiple positions so take that in to consideration.

Will be interesting for people who wish to to state their first and second choice ten?

Steven Jones (Scarlets) 100 Caps (899 Points) Lions 6 Caps (53 Points)

Jason Tovey (Dragons) 0 Caps

Rhys Priestland (Scarlets) 2 Caps

James Hook (Perpignan) 52 Caps (277 Points)

Gavin Henson (Unattached) 31 Caps (130 Points) Lions 1 Cap

Nicky Robinson (Wasps) 12 Caps (99 Points)

Hook played with the same "urine-poor" forwards (actually our best pack in decades) as Jones and looked far better, IMO. Won the game for us against Scotland in the first 15 mins. Personally I thought that would have settled the fly half debate once and for all, but, no, the Jones enthusiasts are back, even hailing his schoolyard try against Argentina as if it were some sublime bit of rugby skill and posting his dash for the line in 2003, as if that were relevant to the slow-mo game he plays today.

Gatland's conservatism in sticking with MP, SJ and JR at centre are likely to mean an early flight home.

I don't think anyone has said the forwards are "urine-poor" samurai, but there's no denying that we don't have ball carriers that are good enough to break the gain line consistently.

And I wouldn't shout up the Scotland match if you want to big up Hook. He has a v good 15-20 minutes but that was it, he was distinctly average if not worse the rest of the time he was on the pitch in that match.

Yes. But it's a shocking record. We have weaknesses like hooker, no ball carrier, but 10 i's a problem. We just aren't creative behind the scrum and look clueless. This i's being orchestrated by jones.

MOG you keep making statements, none of which are true. You say Jones has no pace - not so. Ok Usain Bolt he aint but every single thing that has been said in defence of Jones you've ignored and you keep repeating your point of view. I'm not going to go on any more. Jones is by a country mile better than you give him credit for even at the grand old age of 33! Take Phillips and Gatland out of the equation and you'll rediscover a talented fly half. His game was NEVER based on pace. He's a distributing fly half who brings runners onto the ball. He's still more than capable of playing that game. Don't knock him because Gatland chooses to deploy the stupidest tactics since the Titanic took an iceberg on!

OK rant over. That's all I have to say on the matter.

manofgwent wrote:Well fly half jones hasn't got the Wales back line firing like that. 4 wins in 19 attempts. When we play the springboks it won't be anything like Glasgow mate!
The scarlets play cavalier rugby and have always done so. Wales don't at the minute and that's why he doesn't suit Wales game.

What I am saying is Hook would never have been able to step up to that mark, ans if he cant produce the good at regional level how can you even think he is going to do it at international level

So what you are saying then it was nothing to do with tactics or the other 14 men on the field Wales losses were all to do with Jones, yes of course you have won us all over with that rationale

So I am assuming from your posts you would like Wales to play the "Welsh Way" i.e. attacking rugby or "cavalier rugby" if so you would want Jones to play as obviously he is better playing that way

or are you saying any player as long as its not "old crabbing wellies slowcoah donkey dead in the water" Jones


Samuai
Bit more meat on the bone eh!!....................... I mean your marvelous oneliners astound us all I see now it was old slowcoach who lost you all those games

Hook is a far more talented than Jones but Jones gets more out of the other players in the team.

Although I have been disappointed in his refusal to change tactics when it is clearly not working over recent years (england 2009 and aussies in 2010 ai spring to mind).

I do think any 10 will struggle with an 8 that doesn;t cross the gain line a 9 that can't pass well and a 12 who just runs head down into the opposition.

For that reason I want toby f at 8 peel/rees 9 and hook/henson at 12.

Jones or priestland should be 10 but just my view.

The ball carrying forwards is a good point if we can get a pack of
gethin j m rees a jones
b davies awj
lydiate warburton toby f (b morgan in 2012)

that should see us get over the gain line a lot more

or perhaps because the forwards aren't making any ground our backs are then receiving the ball standing still, so are either driven backwards or pushed from side to side. All teams need quick ball with players able to break the gain line in order for the backs to have any sort of chance to do anything. We haven't had a good service of ball for at least a season and a half imo and I fail to see how that can all just be then pinned on Jones for not making the backs click.

Jones has his limitations but I think he's coming in for some unfair criticism here. Seems to me at the minute that he's just being pinned as a scapegoat for Wales' poor form and to me I'm sorry, it's just ridiculous.

jb1973 wrote:Hook is a far more talented than Jones but Jones gets more out of the other players in the team.

Although I have been disappointed in his refusal to change tactics when it is clearly not working over recent years.

I do think any 10 will struggle with an 8 that doesn;t cross the gain line a 9 that can't pass well and a 12 who just runs head down into the opposition.

For that reason I want toby f 8 peel/rees 9 and hook/henson at 12.

Jones or priestland should be 10 but just my view

+1, can't argue with any of that.

JB & Dreamer - spot on. Couldn't put it better myself.

samuraidragon wrote:Hook played with the same "urine-poor" forwards (actually our best pack in decades) as Jones and looked far better, IMO. Won the game for us against Scotland in the first 15 mins. Personally I thought that would have settled the fly half debate once and for all, but, no, the Jones enthusiasts are back, even hailing his schoolyard try against Argentina as if it were some sublime bit of rugby skill and posting his dash for the line in 2003, as if that were relevant to the slow-mo game he plays today.

Gatland's conservatism in sticking with MP, SJ and JR at centre are likely to mean an early flight home.

Samurai.............. ALA selective memeory man
Scotland
He has 30 mins of very good rugby in OPEN play, anyone with a modicum of rugby impartiality would be mature enough to admit the next 35 mins was pure dross until he was hauled off................ and one point we got within 10 points and with 3 golden opportunities missed two of which was directly due to Hooks decisions we could have been closerr or even in front

France
Well Samurai how do you now explain such an abysmal performance from a 10, I can imagine any current Welsh 10 ever (Tovey, Biggar, Priestland, Robinson, Morgan, Jones must have been cringing with embarressment)............... if you want me to detail his poor poor awareness and just lacking in the very basics

That most recent Welsh match in itself must have put paid to the debate

I'd like to see tovey or preistland at least get 1 game starting at 10 in the world cup warm up games,

Tovey is a player I rate highly but everytime he gets a wales call up he picks up an injury most frustrating. (especially for the player himself)

jb1973 wrote:I'd like to see tovey or preistland at least get 1 game starting at 10 in the world cup warm up games,

Tovey is a player I rate highly but everytime he gets a wales call up he picks up an injury most frustrating. (especially for the player himself)

his former coach, the man who put him at ten at the dragons never really got moving for wales, hopefully Tovey doesnt become another Paul Turner

jb1973 wrote:Hook is a far more talented than Jones but Jones gets more out of the other players in the team.

Do you mean Hook is more talented at seeing an opportunity, game awarenes, stength in tackle, organisation, ability to work behind a revolving pack, more accurate between the posts than Jones, there is not many coaches in the world that agrees with you


or do you mean Hook runs faster than Jones

Talent is quite subjective, just because you dont glide like a gazelle, or run graciously like a cheetah doesnt mean you are not talanted

As Graham Henry once said Jones has enough natural skills to play 12 in any world team.

Quade Cooper is more adventurous than Dan Carter does that mean he more talented ................. ahem NO

IMHO Jones talents are quire obvious as are Hooks, whether one is more suited to the Welsh 10 role is debatable

Rugby dreamer. If he was so poor against Scotland how come he also played against Ireland and France? Jones was fit for these games. Let's face it, he's had his day and we won't get out of our group with him at 10.
Anyone wish to comment on his restarts?

MOG - I wish Hook hadn't started against France, he was utterly dreadful. The Ireland game, I concede he played a good kicking game. That was a dire match though and not really something to shout about.

From the 6Nations I would say Hook had a good 20 mins against Scotland, and kicked well against Ireland. That would be it though. Hardly see how that was so much better then what Jones can bring to the table.

I do agree with your previous points though that we haven't developed another 10, which isn't great. I would have preferred Priestland to have had game time at 10 in the 6 Nations over Hook.

And Jones' restarts aren't the best, I will admit that. I've already said in a previous post that his game does have it's limitations, and that's one of them.

Funy ain't it. We have two different talented fly halves in Jones and Hook. That is what we need. We need to have options, and players who can change the shape of the game. It is the same agrument about fly halves in Wales for decades (and it will be for decades to come). We have a flair fly half and a paper thin defence, so we put in a solid fly half and lose a little in atttack, so we ditch them for flair. Then we notice we have no defence again.

Personally I think that we need to start with Steve at fly half, as he is more reliable in defence and does make the most of the players outside him. And then make the most of having the pace, and individual abilities of Hook when the oposition aregetting warn out. But if we have the two of them at the RWC we will have options and possibly be able to have a varied game plan depending on what happens on the day. If we ignore one or the other then we will be more likely dumped out early (no matter which one we leave behind)

JB, isn't not changing the gameplan when it's not working a pretty serious flaw in a player hailed for his game management?

Also, I feel that SJ's consistency is overrated. He makes mistakes too, sometimes serious ones. The interception against England cost us the game last year, as did his failure to find touch against Ireland in their GS decider. A few months ago, he got dragged 15 metres to the tryline by Parisse because the tackle was much too high.

Jones is what he is. He isn't going to get any better now. In fact he's been visibly going downhill (slowing) since the Lions. Like SS, I would use Hook/Jones in combo, but with Hook to start, Jones to see out tight games.

flyhalffactory wrote:

jb1973 wrote:Hook is a far more talented than Jones but Jones gets more out of the other players in the team.

Do you mean Hook is more talented at seeing an opportunity, game awarenes, stength in tackle, organisation, ability to work behind a revolving pack, more accurate between the posts than Jones, there is not many coaches in the world that agrees with you


or do you mean Hook runs faster than Jones

Talent is quite subjective, just because you dont glide like a gazelle, or run graciously like a cheetah doesnt mean you are not talanted

As Graham Henry once said Jones has enough natural skills to play 12 in any world team.

Quade Cooper is more adventurous than Dan Carter does that mean he more talented ................. ahem NO

IMHO Jones talents are quire obvious as are Hooks, whether one is more suited to the Welsh 10 role is debatable

I meant more in terms of natural talent, the ability to sidestep, hand off a man , agreed more speed and proably a better natural athlete than jones. I'd say Hook is ahead in all of those but there are other talents which come with hard work and experience as you say handling skills, ability to read a game, get the backline going ,call set moves and bring others into play thats where jones has the edge.

I honestly don;t think jones would get in the ab or aussie side at 12 regardless of what henry says on the matter but hey he knows far more about rugby than i do so who am i to argue.

samuraidragon wrote:
Also, I feel that SJ's consistency is overrated. He makes mistakes too, sometimes serious ones. The interception against England cost us the game last year, as did his failure to find touch against Ireland in their GS decider. A few months ago, he got dragged 15 metres to the tryline by Parisse because the tackle was much too high.

It was 5 metres mate, and if any forward gets the ball on the 5 meter line with a back attempting to tackle him, he will be over- thats life, and can you seriously think Hook could have done better?

Hook hasnt got enough game time at 10, Gatland should play priestland 10 for the next 3 matches to give him some xp, we need a 10 after Sj retires (has he announced if he is retiring post world cup)

You say 5, I say 15 - let's call it 10 metres then. His only chance to stop Parisse was to go low. He didn't go low.

I don't claim Hook would have done better. Hook is not noted for tackling, but Jones is.

hook will be jones' understudy at rwc. it is right then that hook gets to start against england, twice.

however, i feel wales will be more of an attacking threat at rwc with hook in the center because he cannot get going from 10 with the cr4ppy service from phillips. wellies can get going forward with phillips' service and can get hook going forward.

maybe the fh debate is actually a sh debate but as we know gats will pick phillips we need to play to that. that means jones at 10 with hook as second receiver.

Samurai / manofgwent

Can explain as you both are banging on about Jones slowing down carhorse etc etc, and Hook was so devastating against us and how he was so able to be a game changer

That in the most recent meaningful Welsh game (v France), if that had been Jones performance you would have brought it up as a reason to get rid of him for good.

How can you forget to mention such an abysmal performance, it was utterly dreadful. Most players Welsh career would have been over after that match

Samurai are you saying Parisse was 45 ft away from the line!!! beggrs belief he was so close to the line it was well inside the 5m line and most importantly it was STODDART who went low and missed

On most recent form (baa-baa's) then Jones is ahead. There's 3 tougher games to go though and Hook will be in the mix and will probably play well. He needs to forget the France game and try and play like he did against Scotland/Ireland. Gavin Henson will be involved in the remain 3 games to I think. He had paper-weight defence in that game but I though his distribution looked exceptional.

Henson's distribution exceptional - what when he kicked away possession nearly every time he was any where near the opposition's 22? and the one pass he did make well was forward? (yes I know we scored from that one).

Henson had a rubbish game and he knew it in his interview after the match. He physically can not compete at international level at the moment, and I don't see how he can magically change that around before the world cup.

rugbydreamer wrote:
....Henson had a rubbish game and he knew it in his interview after the match. He physically can not compete at international level at the moment, and I don't see how he can magically change that around before the world cup.

if he gets another run out against england he might findd his feet. he only needs two games to prove himself

how can he bulk up/get physically strong enough in time though? He looks so much smaller on the pitch now compared to the other players, even Scott Williams who is only about 20. He got bumped of so many tackles it was embarrassing, a couple of months I don't aren't going to make the difference for him to be able to compete properly, especially in the physical group we have.

I do though think Gats will give him game time in all of the friendlies though. If Gats is going to stick with him, then I very much hope he proves me wrong!

dogtooth wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:
....Henson had a rubbish game and he knew it in his interview after the match. He physically can not compete at international level at the moment, and I don't see how he can magically change that around before the world cup.

if he gets another run out against england he might findd his feet. he only needs two games to prove himself

Dogtooth dont you think that Scott Williams was a much better player than Henson (who had a dire game including his distribution) in all facits of the game, surely if Wales are going to invest time and energy it should be with Williams not Henson

I thought, before his sabbatical, that he came back from injury quickly. if he can get his match fitness up to a good level then I think he is a player we need.

He may have been only at 20% in all games so far but he had some great little touches.

They may sound like very little to many of you, but it is those little bits that are the difference between Henson and Jamie Roberts, Andrew Bishop, even Jon Davies.

Wales need more players with unique ability in that back line.

I do like Scott Williams though...

I find it interesting the reason Jones does not perform is because of the scrum half, the back row or the props it never seems to be S Jones hence this is the reason I know him as Teflon Jones. We all have a go at Bennett for not throwing straight which is one of the basic requirements for a hooker but Jones can't do restarts, his tactical kicking is poor, his speed and his line breaks are non existant I would say these requirements are fundimental for an average flyhalf but for S Jones supporters these requirements are not important, now you know why I think of him with the Teflon name!

Preistland (and Tovey) has all of the above requirements the only negative is his tackling is very week but the back row can help out there as Ireland with ROG. He has been better than S Jones this season, it is refreshing to see breaks from a flyhalf but it is the ML he and Tovey need game time.

Um - it was Jones, not Stoddart. And it was certainly more than a 5M run, as he carved a semi-circle to the line with Jones hanging off his collar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkPpHyNrn04

I'm talking about the Parisse try in the 6N game, btw, not the Ba-Bas. Check out the highlights above and also enjoy the sumptuous Hook break that put Warburton in under the posts.

glamorganalun wrote:I find it interesting the reason Jones does not perform is because of the scrum half, the back row or the props it never seems to be S Jones hence this is the reason I know him as Teflon Jones. We all have a go at Bennett for not throwing straight which is one of the basic requirements for a hooker but Jones can't do restarts, his tactical kicking is poor, his speed and his line breaks are non existant I would say these requirements are fundimental for an average flyhalf but for S Jones supporters these requirements are not important, now you know why I think of him with the Teflon name!

Preistland (and Tovey) has all of the above requirements the only negative is his tackling is very week but the back row can help out there as Ireland with ROG. He has been better than S Jones this season, it is refreshing to see breaks from a flyhalf but it is the ML he and Tovey need game time.

No average player gets 100 caps mate, Jones is a bloody good player but he is like Neil Jenkins, he does the basics and is a good defender. The problem with Jones is he has slow service, you only have to look at the tries Wales scored, though I agree he does look like an aged player now, sometimes when players get to their mid 30's their a bit worn out and Jones is worn out, he needs to be on the bench to bring on in a tight game. The problem is no one has put their hand up to replace him.

rugbydreamer wrote:Henson's distribution exceptional - what when he kicked away possession nearly every time he was any where near the opposition's 22? and the one pass he did make well was forward? (yes I know we scored from that one).

Henson had a rubbish game and he knew it in his interview after the match. He physically can not compete at international level at the moment, and I don't see how he can magically change that around before the world cup.

Since when is kicking the ball away distribution? Shame about that one chip that didn't work out and ended up giving posession back to the baa-baa's. Game management error by Gavin there. Yes his passes were good all game. One of the few times our backs have looked threatening in the last few seasons. Whenever SJ plays passing amongst the backs is to slow, no wonder they aren't scoring tries because they never see the ball. The ball was getting wide in this game and it was down to Henson.

flyhalffactory wrote:

dogtooth wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote:
....Henson had a rubbish game and he knew it in his interview after the match. He physically can not compete at international level at the moment, and I don't see how he can magically change that around before the world cup.

if he gets another run out against england he might findd his feet. he only needs two games to prove himself

Dogtooth dont you think that Scott Williams was a much better player than Henson (who had a dire game including his distribution) in all facits of the game, surely if Wales are going to invest time and energy it should be with Williams not Henson

good point, and i am usually an advocate for bring on the next crop rather than sticking with has beens.

but, henson is not a has been, he is a never was.

samuraidragon wrote:Um - it was Jones, not Stoddart. And it was certainly more than a 5M run, as he carved a semi-circle to the line with Jones hanging off his collar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkPpHyNrn04

I'm talking about the Parisse try in the 6N game, btw, not the Ba-Bas. Check out the highlights above and also enjoy the sumptuous Hook break that put Warburton in under the posts.

samurai, Parisse is probably the best 8 in the world at i would doubt that any back could have stopped him from where he was, yes jones went too high but your obivously not a forward because otherwise you would understand if i forward gets into 5/10metres away from the line with a back in his way they wont be stopped. espicially a player like parise

Samurai

Sorry mate when you said the recent game thought you meant the BaaBaas

Alyn:

You have contradicted yourself, you say he is no average player and then you say he is worn out, worn out implies he (currently) is worse than average at international level which is what I was saying. I disagree with your comment, he does basics well hence I was using Bennett as an example who has only one weakness (throwing) S Jones has more weaknesses at his position as you also pointed out. He does have strengths such as his defence provided you run straight at him and he is a top goal kicker but we have other good kickers in the team.

We need to develop other players in the 10 position, we have depth in most positions but 10 and 15 we are lacking experience at international level because of Gatland picking Hook at 15 and sticking with S Jones even in nothing games (BaaBaas).

glamorganalun wrote:Alyn:

You have contradicted yourself, you say he is no average player and then you say he is worn out, worn out implies he (currently) is worse than average at international level which is what I was saying. I disagree with your comment, he does basics well hence I was using Bennett as an example who has only one weakness (throwing) S Jones has more weaknesses at his position as you also pointed out. He does have strengths such as his defence provided you run straight at him and he is a top goal kicker but we have other good kickers in the team.

We need to develop other players in the 10 position, we have depth in most positions but 10 and 15 we are lacking experience at international level because of Gatland picking Hook at 15 and sticking with S Jones even in nothing games (BaaBaas).

Not really mate, clearly Jones is showing signs of ageing, and I would pick Hook ahead of him as he is more creative and you do need to score points to win matches. Jones is a solid defender and is a decent crash ball outside half, the problem with Wales is we basically have Mike Phillips, Stephen Jones, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts and George north who are all crash ball players who look for contact, that phyiscality needs to be evened out with players who have skill, pace and can hit a gap. The problem isn't Stephen Jones, it's just we have too many similar players, who do the same job in our back line.

glamorganalun wrote:Alyn:

You have contradicted yourself, you say he is no average player and then you say he is worn out, worn out implies he (currently) is worse than average at international level which is what I was saying. I disagree with your comment, he does basics well hence I was using Bennett as an example who has only one weakness (throwing) S Jones has more weaknesses at his position as you also pointed out. He does have strengths such as his defence provided you run straight at him and he is a top goal kicker but we have other good kickers in the team.

We need to develop other players in the 10 position, we have depth in most positions but 10 and 15 we are lacking experience at international level because of Gatland picking Hook at 15 and sticking with S Jones even in nothing games (BaaBaas).

Have to agree, particulary when you mention our lack of experience at 10 and 15.

jones has played his best rugby when he has a play maker at 12 outside him be it henson for wales or king for the scarlets.

Now we all know roberts and davies don't have the play maker aspect to their game, neither do bishop or young williams.

Hook is more of a game breaker than a play maker, so this leaves us? if tango man is fit he will play imo unless we do something different like play hook 10 and sj 12 or even play rhys preistland 10 with sj 12

we are in a horrible position at 15 byrne is out of form, stoddart defence is not upto it at 15. Why tovey priestland or even halfpenny were not tried there last year is beyond me

AlynDavies wrote:

glamorganalun wrote:Alyn:

You have contradicted yourself, you say he is no average player and then you say he is worn out, worn out implies he (currently) is worse than average at international level which is what I was saying. I disagree with your comment, he does basics well hence I was using Bennett as an example who has only one weakness (throwing) S Jones has more weaknesses at his position as you also pointed out. He does have strengths such as his defence provided you run straight at him and he is a top goal kicker but we have other good kickers in the team.

We need to develop other players in the 10 position, we have depth in most positions but 10 and 15 we are lacking experience at international level because of Gatland picking Hook at 15 and sticking with S Jones even in nothing games (BaaBaas).

Not really mate, clearly Jones is showing signs of ageing, and I would pick Hook ahead of him as he is more creative and you do need to score points to win matches. Jones is a solid defender and is a decent crash ball outside half, the problem with Wales is we basically have Mike Phillips, Stephen Jones, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts and George north who are all crash ball players who look for contact, that phyiscality needs to be evened out with players who have skill, pace and can hit a gap. The problem isn't Stephen Jones, it's just we have too many similar players, who do the same job in our back line.

Yet another Hook is creative WHEN??? and of course Hooks creates point scoring opportunities WHEN???

Makes me smile Jones last two games for the Scarlets was a masterclass in creative play

4 Tries in each game
and the players around him
Stoddart; North, Davies, S Williams, Knoyle

No I wonder who might be around him come the wc warmup

Might not be the player but the tactic employed zzzzzzzzzzzzz how many time do you guys need to be told

Meanwhile I wonder what Hook was doing the last two ML games.............. lets see what creative play he was conjuring!!! that righty "a big fat zero"

PLAY YOUR FORM AND CREATIVE PLAYERS

Flyhaf:

Hook played centre in the last two ML games if my memory is correct, I would accept your argument if Hook was the 10 at the start of the games and they played the same teams in the same conditions. The last ML game Hook took over 10 at the end of the game and kicked the winning penalty to push the Scarlets out of the play off's, he did nothing!!!

You did not reference the Scarlets results against the Ospreys and Leicester home and away? I agree the Scarlets had some good games at the end of season and I for one enjoyed the performances but the games above, the Scarlets were well beaten. The Ospreys had a poor season in my opinion but they were not hammered by anyone all season (and that was a poor season).

being a pedant, we weren't well beaten at home by the O's. The final score was 18-21.

You are right about the other matches though.

Faircop, but it was at home.

rugbydreamer wrote:being a pedant, we weren't well beaten at home by the O's. The final score was 18-21.

You are right about the other matches though.

Was that at home by the O's or at the home of the O's?

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/Ospreys-60-Scarlets-17/story-12398126-detail/story.html

Maes that was the Scarlets away fixture, and there's no denying that we were well beaten in that one!

glamorganalun wrote:Flyhaf:

Hook played centre in the last two ML games if my memory is correct, I would accept your argument if Hook was the 10 at the start of the games and they played the same teams in the same conditions. The last ML game Hook took over 10 at the end of the game and kicked the winning penalty to push the Scarlets out of the play off's, he did nothing!!!

You did not reference the Scarlets results against the Ospreys and Leicester home and away? I agree the Scarlets had some good games at the end of season and I for one enjoyed the performances but the games above, the Scarlets were well beaten. The Ospreys had a poor season in my opinion but they were not hammered by anyone all season (and that was a poor season).

Look lets not talk about 2003 2005 2008 etc etc................ lets talk about something relevant if Hook was such a shoe in at 10 then he would have played 10 at the end of the season, he didnt for a very good reason.

The hammering of the Scarlets was not down to anyone man, in fact the Scarlets foilbles over the last god knows how many seasons is their front 5, I would say the Tigers and Os are way ahead there and that was the main reason for the defeat, I'd go as far to say that the Os played well above themselves against the West Walian neighbours. However this back line is arguably the best attacking unit in the UK, plenty enough to push any side in Europe, and they gained plaudits from all the knowledable rugby rivals including my team

9 Knoyle
10 Jones (Priestland)
11 Lamont
12 King (Williams)
13 Davies (Maule)
14 North
15 Stoddart

The only player I would look at down at the Os would be Biggar who I think has great potential. Jones stars in that incredibly talented back division because Nigel Davies utilises him correctly, its all down to tactics which I think Gatland has none.

The Scarlets improved greatly over the season IMHO, and if they can get a decent front 3 then they will be a force to be reckoned with.

I agree with the majority of posters that Jones should retire after the WC, and concentrate on the regional game for a couple of years. But until the he is a quantum leap above anyone else

Flyhalf:

I agree with most of what you posted except Hook did not play 10 for the Os as he was leaving i.e., more experience for Biggar and the obvious one "Quantum leap above anyone else"!!! but that is a matter of opinion I don't share. I believe Preistland was the better FH the season just gone which is good news for the Scarlets. I do agree Gatland tactics are rubbish and certainly don't help the Wales attack also, I believe S Jones is the least suited to these tactics he was better before Gatland signed up for Wales.

On another subject do you know what has happened to "Ospeylian" he has not been on here for a month and I see he is no longer a moderator?

Cheers

Alun

Alun mate

I think all Priestland needs is have the confidence of a Hooky or Biggar. He is something what Sexton was a couple of seasons ago very talented but lacking in self belief.

Saying that I have looked at the Italy game and Hook did make two devastating runs to contribute heavily in the two tries, I hope the french trip goes in his favour.

IMHO you desparately need to get rid of that deadwood Gatland his autocratic approach is killing any "Welsh Way" get shot of him before the damage is permanent.

No in fact I haven't been down Wales since Feb, and before I left your fantastic land I wanted to watch a match down at the Liberty with him (Ospreylian) but never got round to it. Lets hope he is ok................. perhaps one of the other Mods can enlighten us.

I always look out for the Os & Scarlets and apart from us I always cheer on my adopted country Wales, I hope you have a great run up to the WC and did well in the comp itself

Cheers mate

Flyhalf:

I asked how he was (rugbydreamer) and he said to his knowledge he is OK he has not been on the site for a while (over a month!). As you were on his friends list I though you may have been in touch.

Cheers and thanks

Just to point out I'm a she not a he

And honestly I haven't seen him posting in here for ages, but then he didn't post all that much anyway. Hopefully with the start of the news season he'll come back posting, fingers crossed anyway!