606v2 picks the Irish RWC 22: STARTING OUTHALF

First topic message reminder :

First of all wanted to say thanks to everyone who has contributed over the past few days the debates have been pretty good for the most part. We have had nearly 1000 votes and nearly 600 comments and a lot of people have contributed to what has been a really good couple of days debating. It's been great to hear so many opinions (even ones I have disagreed with) and to get a feel for what everyone thinks of certain players. There were a number of very tight calls between Hayes and Buckley, O'Leary and Murray and McFadden and Fitzgerald so it's been interesting to see people's opinions being tested against those of others.

In this series gets the same great reaction and that we hear some more great debates that were started or were not touched on in the previous series. Calls like; should Jennings be on the bench, the backrow selections, the fullback selection, should Stringer be selected on the bench are all going to be very interesting and am looking forward to hearing everyones opinions.


The idea of this series is to establish the first choice front row, second row, backrow, halfbacks, centres, back3, forwards subs and backs subs. These debates I may leave a little longer than the previous series as more can be said about them. The idea is to chose the best 22 that we have be it on form, experience, partnerships, balance, fitness whatever.

Perhaps think of this as the team you want to line out against Australia

IN THE SERIES PLEASE LOOK AT THE PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN/YOU THINK WILL BE PICKED LATER IN THE SERIES, AS TO CREATE BALANCE IN THE TEAM
eg: Playing Flannery would mean needing a work horse somewhere else in the pack as Best does a lot of the donkey work.

IF A PLAYER IS IN OUR SQUAD PLEASE TAKE FOR GRANTED THAT THEY CAME THROUGH THE WARM UPS AND THUS HAVE SOME FORM (IF NOT A LOT) AND ARE SOMEWHAT FIT. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION.

We are going to use the squad that we (the 606v2 community) have chosen.

Healy, Ross, Buckley, Court
Best, Cronin, Flannery
O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Cullen, Ryan
Ferris, O'Brien, Wallace, Jennings, Heaslip
Reddan, Stringer, O'Leary*
Sexton, O'Gara
O'Driscoll, Darcy, Wallace
Bowe, Earls, Trimble, Kearney, Jones, McFadden

*O'Leary just beat Murray yesterday evening in the poll by one vote.

So far the team is

Healy-Best-Ross
O'Connell-O'Callaghan
Ferris-Heaslip-Wallace
Reddan-

Enjoy

SEXTON: Has had a fairly good year and is growing more and more as the months pass. Good defender at 10 and phyiscal enough to take the ball to the line. Good range of passing and varies the game well. By bringing it to the line he doesn't allow defenders to clog the midfield too much. Good range of kicking and good accuracy too from hand and floor although not O'Gara-esque (yet!). Links well with Darcy/BOD and also the Irish backrow.
O'GARA: Great tactician and reader of the game. Has one of the best ranges of kicks in the world be it tactical kicks for touch or cross field kicks. Good infront of the posts also. Quite a poor defender and requires his 12 and/or 7 to not be too far away from him. Fantastic passer of the ball but too often he stays deep and doesn't threaten the line leaving the defence free to target runners in the midfield and close down space.
WALLACE: Definitely more a 12 than a 10 but has good distribution skills and vision. His defence is much improved as is his ability to make half breaks with his step and fend and he looks for offloads. Kicking from hand is good for a 12 but probably not good enough for a 10 and lacks game management skills too. Has had 0 time at 10 with Reddan at 9 and is not a world class goal kicker.


Remember...

a) think of balance of the whole team
b) assume if they are in the squad they have some form and some fitness (not necessarily full fitness or good form)
c) play nice and no provincial stuff, attack the arguement not the person making it
d) to place your votes
e) back up your points with examples, clips etc if possible

Cheers
Pete

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think that in those horrific wet contidtions (I am not talking about rain, I am talking about a storm basically) th likes of ROG, TOL and Kearney have a lot of merit due to their "steadiness" as such. They would mean we'd be able to play a more forward orientated game and be good in defensive duties (ROG aside)

Sexton is just as capable of rog at playing the conditions, if it is wet sexton will be able to cope. If rog start then it would make more sense to start tol to make up for rog's defence. Sexton had a brilliant game for leinster against munster, in 2008(i think), in awful conditions where he ran the show through tactical kicking.

Is the game you are referring to the one in Musgrave when much to the amazement of all Munster supporters Munster kept throwing the ball around in a gale force win. I believe they were going through their "we need to change our style of game if we want to win more heineken Cups stage back then."

Thats a load of rubbish your pushing about O'leary needing to start if ROG does! A few stats for you to mull over:

During the 6Ns in the French game, Sexton played for 63 mins and made 6 tackles. O'Gara played for 17 mins and made exactly the same number of tackles (6). O'Leary made 4 tackles (missing 1), and Reddan (who came on about the same time as O'Gara made 3).

So to summarise, O'Gara made the same number of tackles in 17 mins against France as Sexton did in his 63 minutes against the same team (which put a lot more pressure on D'Arcy & BOD).

It should also be noted that Ireland scored 5 tries during the 6Ns with O'Gara at OH and 5 with Sexton even though Sexton had 80 mins more playing time than O'Gara.

I bet D'Arcy loves it when O'Gara starts. Takes a load of pressure off him.

sin and stats

Could it be that the opposition targeted ROG?
Could it be that when ROG was on he kicked the ball more and therefor had to make tackles?
Could it be that the Irish pack were in the ascendancy when ROG was playing (tries were being scored) or people weren't knocking on.
Darcy I'd say ahtes playing with ROG he gets the ball and 3 defenders at the same time.

Also wonder how many yards ROG conceeded in tackles to Sexton or how many times Sexton needed to be assisted in tackles compared to ROG.

Sin é wrote:During the 6Ns in the French game, Sexton played for 63 mins and made 6 tackles. O'Gara played for 17 mins and made exactly the same number of tackles (6).

To be honest Sin, all that shows is the perceived weakness of O'Gara's defence. The French clearly decided that running through O'Gara was the way to go.

For the record, I think that O'Gara is quite a brave defender. Sure he doesn't have a great technique and sure he's not going to knock guys back in the tackle but he does encourage teams to take a slightly blinkered view in attack and sometime ignore space out wide instead preferring to run at O'Gara.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Sin é wrote:

valjester wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I think that in those horrific wet contidtions (I am not talking about rain, I am talking about a storm basically) th likes of ROG, TOL and Kearney have a lot of merit due to their "steadiness" as such. They would mean we'd be able to play a more forward orientated game and be good in defensive duties (ROG aside)

Sexton is just as capable of rog at playing the conditions, if it is wet sexton will be able to cope. If rog start then it would make more sense to start tol to make up for rog's defence. Sexton had a brilliant game for leinster against munster, in 2008(i think), in awful conditions where he ran the show through tactical kicking.

Is the game you are referring to the one in Musgrave when much to the amazement of all Munster supporters Munster kept throwing the ball around in a gale force win. I believe they were going through their "we need to change our style of game if we want to win more heineken Cups stage back then."

Thats a load of rubbish your pushing about O'leary needing to start if ROG does! A few stats for you to mull over:

During the 6Ns in the French game, Sexton played for 63 mins and made 6 tackles. O'Gara played for 17 mins and made exactly the same number of tackles (6). O'Leary made 4 tackles (missing 1), and Reddan (who came on about the same time as O'Gara made 3).

So to summarise, O'Gara made the same number of tackles in 17 mins against France as Sexton did in his 63 minutes against the same team (which put a lot more pressure on D'Arcy & BOD).

It should also be noted that Ireland scored 5 tries during the 6Ns with O'Gara at OH and 5 with Sexton even though Sexton had 80 mins more playing time than O'Gara.

I bet D'Arcy loves it when O'Gara starts. Takes a load of pressure off him.

sin and stats

Could it be that the opposition targeted ROG? More than likely. Good - predictable attack - easy to defend
Could it be that when ROG was on he kicked the ball more and therefor had to make tackles? Does it matter how we won?
Could it be that the Irish pack were in the ascendancy when ROG was playing (tries were being scored) or people weren't knocking on. No. Equally bad in every match up to the England match.
Darcy I'd say ahtes playing with ROG he gets the ball and 3 defenders at the same time. Then again he might have escaped some finger pointing if ROG was on the pitch for the French try.

For the record, Ireland conceeded 3 trys with Sexton on the pitch, and 1 with ROG. Maybe ROG just keeps them all on their toes better about defending!

MMC wrote:

Sin é wrote:During the 6Ns in the French game, Sexton played for 63 mins and made 6 tackles. O'Gara played for 17 mins and made exactly the same number of tackles (6).

To be honest Sin, all that shows is the perceived weakness of O'Gara's defence. The French clearly decided that running through O'Gara was the way to go.

For the record, I think that O'Gara is quite a brave defender. Sure he doesn't have a great technique and sure he's not going to knock guys back in the tackle but he does encourage teams to take a slightly blinkered view in attack and sometime ignore space out wide instead preferring to run at O'Gara.

Thats my point - the attack is very predictable and easy to defend. ROG rarely gets rattled with the big hits. He has made his perceived weakness a strength now.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Also wonder how many yards ROG conceeded in tackles to Sexton or how many times Sexton needed to be assisted in tackles compared to ROG.

None of them are going to get very far in a crowded mid-field. I don't know how many yards he can conceed, but the main thing is that we are not conceeding trys with him on the pitch. The gang tackle is fashionable nowadays - watch DOC & Rory Best at it.

Sin é wrote:

MMC wrote:

Sin é wrote:During the 6Ns in the French game, Sexton played for 63 mins and made 6 tackles. O'Gara played for 17 mins and made exactly the same number of tackles (6).

To be honest Sin, all that shows is the perceived weakness of O'Gara's defence. The French clearly decided that running through O'Gara was the way to go.

For the record, I think that O'Gara is quite a brave defender. Sure he doesn't have a great technique and sure he's not going to knock guys back in the tackle but he does encourage teams to take a slightly blinkered view in attack and sometime ignore space out wide instead preferring to run at O'Gara.

Thats my point - the attack is very predictable and easy to defend. ROG rarely gets rattled with the big hits. He has made his perceived weakness a strength now.

I think we're agreeing with each other in a round about way there Sin.

I can see the centres poll being just as one sided as this one tomorrow and minus the debate. Back 3 should be fun though.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Also wonder how many yards ROG conceeded in tackles to Sexton or how many times Sexton needed to be assisted in tackles compared to ROG.

None of them are going to get very far in a crowded mid-field. I don't know how many yards he can conceed, but the main thing is that we are not conceeding trys with him on the pitch. The gang tackle is fashionable nowadays - watch DOC & Rory Best at it.

Couldn't agree more. The gang tackle is a fantastic aspect of our play now and to see the lads using it to huge effect against the English gave me a real boost that we should be able to do the same down south in September.

Sin é wrote:
For the record, Ireland conceeded 3 trys with Sexton on the pitch, and 1 with ROG. Maybe ROG just keeps them all on their toes better about defending!

Well considering Sexton played more minutes and against the two strongest sides then thats not really surprising is it? Sin you must be the only person in Ireland(or perhaps even the World) who thinks ROG is a better defender than Sexton. As Pete has stated the fact that ROG made more tackles in a shorter time period suggests how much more effective we are at retaining posession when Sexton is at 10 than ROG. It also suggests that the opposition are more likely to attack the 10 channel with Sexton off the field.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
For the record, Ireland conceeded 3 trys with Sexton on the pitch, and 1 with ROG. Maybe ROG just keeps them all on their toes better about defending!

Well considering Sexton played more minutes and against the two strongest sides then thats not really surprising is it? Sin you must be the only person in Ireland(or perhaps even the World) who thinks ROG is a better defender than Sexton. As Pete has stated the fact that ROG made more tackles in a shorter time period suggests how much more effective we are at retaining posession when Sexton is at 10 than ROG. It also suggests that the opposition are more likely to attack the 10 channel with Sexton off the field.

Lets stick to the France game then: Sexton played 63 mins. O'Gara played 17 mins. (roughly Sexton played 3/4; O'Gara 1/4).

Tackles made:
Sexton: 6; O'Gara 6: Total Irl team tackles: 130. Total French team tackles: 98 (made mainly by the French backkrow). So much for Ireland holding onto possession! (Italy v Ireland game: Tackles made: Ireland: 112. Italy: 118. V Wales: Wales: 133; Ireland: 121. V England: Ireland made 105 tackles; England made 75. Why were Ireland making more tackles than England if they retain possesion with Sexton starting?

Ireland Tries scored when either OH was playing: 3 total. V Wales: Wales: 133; Ireland: 121.

Sexton 2; O'Gara 1. Cronin knocked on at the end, finishing our chances of winning the game. Ireland gave away a penalty for the scrum on 80th minute.

Tries conceeded with either on the pitch.
Sexton 1; O'Gara 0.

Please supply link to where I claimed that O'Gara is a better defender than Sexton?

I have counter claimed that O'Gara doesn't need Tomas O'Leary to be selected to make his tackles for him and contrary to a lot of opinion here, Ireland's defence doesn't suffer when O'Gara is playing at OH. The Ireland pack make a similar amount of tackles no matter who is OH.

Its not a bad thing if the 10 channel is targetted because
a) its usually a fairly crowded area of the field - very rare to run straight through. b) easier for the fullback to make a tackle - at most he will only have to run across half the pitch. c) The attack is so predictable that you can plan for it.

As I've said before, the main thing is that your OH is able to take the big hits he is going to get and stay cool and calm. O'Gara usually picks himself up and gets on with it.

Sin é wrote:
As I've said before, the main thing is that your OH is able to take the big hits he is going to get and stay cool and calm. O'Gara usually picks himself up and gets on with it.

Now we are in agreement. I'm fully confident that both Sexton and ROG can do their defensive duties adequately but certainly Sexton soes not weaken us defensively.

My only concerns with O'Gara is that if he is forced to take the ball into contact he does tend to get turned over fairly frequently. Also his running game, whilst better than some make out, does tend to be predictable at times in comparision to Sextons who has more strings to his bow with the ball in hand. Sextons size and pace allows him to stand flatter whereas ROG tends to sit deeper and Sexton has a much more varied range of passing than O'Gara, which combined with his running ability makes him more dangerous with the ball in hand.

But defensively O'Gara has shown himself to be reasonably solid in recent times and when on song his game management and tactical kicking are second to none.

ROG isn’t a bad defender, he’s a bad tackler. There’s a difference, and it’s just technique. He’s always in the right place at the right time, but he does get hammered sometimes. I’m surprised he hasn’t worked on his tackling technique more over the years to be honest.

Sin, stats can show whatever you want them to. For instance, according to the league stats last year Ian Keatley is the best outhalf in Ireland. Now, I’m sure that as soon as he has a Munster jersey on you’ll be petitioning to have him starting for Ireland but I think we can all agree he’s not even in the running at the moment.

Mickado wrote:ROG isn’t a bad defender, he’s a bad tackler. There’s a difference, and it’s just technique. He’s always in the right place at the right time, but he does get hammered sometimes. I’m surprised he hasn’t worked on his tackling technique more over the years to be honest.

Sin, stats can show whatever you want them to. For instance, according to the league stats last year Ian Keatley is the best outhalf in Ireland. Now, I’m sure that as soon as he has a Munster jersey on you’ll be petitioning to have him starting for Ireland but I think we can all agree he’s not even in the running at the moment.

+1

Mickado wrote:ROG isn’t a bad defender, he’s a bad tackler.

Actually Mick I don't agree. I think O'Gara is an ok tackler in that his technique is decent and he is brave but he simply lacks the physicality to stop the big men in their tracks.

As I'm sure Sin can point out ( ) his tackling stats are pretty decent. We can all find examples of when people have ran over the top off him but more often than not he does enought to stop or slow down anyone who runs directly at him. He is vulnerable on his outside shoulder if anyone tries to round him though.

Lets face it though no one picks their half backs for their tackling ability. Ruan Pienaar was one of the standout players in Europe last season and his tackling is worse than O'Gara's!

Mickado wrote:ROG isn’t a bad defender, he’s a bad tackler. There’s a difference, and it’s just technique. He’s always in the right place at the right time, but he does get hammered sometimes. I’m surprised he hasn’t worked on his tackling technique more over the years to be honest.

Sin, stats can show whatever you want them to. For instance, according to the league stats last year Ian Keatley is the best outhalf in Ireland. Now, I’m sure that as soon as he has a Munster jersey on you’ll be petitioning to have him starting for Ireland but I think we can all agree he’s not even in the running at the moment.

Every OH (or whoever stands in the 10 channel) is going to get hammered by backrows running at them, simply because they are smaller. Johnny Sexton isn't going to look too good if he has Jamie Heaslip/Sean O'Brien continually running at him either, I don't care how good his technique is. Watch the highlights of Leinster v Clermont's in the RDS in 2009 and he was tossed about like a rag doll by some of the Clemront backs (not having a go at Sexton here, the important thing is that he doesn't lose his cool, gets up and gets on with it).

Any stats I've produced hasn't claimed that O'Gara is the best outhalf. I've produced stats that back up my opinion that his defence isn't the liability that everyone else just trots out the whole time here with nothing to back it up. (I've also produced some evidence that Ireland's attack is better with O'Gara at OH as Ireland score more tries with him on the pitch).

Can I see the League stats that say that Ian Keatley is the best outhalf? As I'm not shouting for Murray to go to the world cup (as I think its a bit too soon for him), so its doubtful I'll be shouting for Keatley to start for Ireland until he has given a decent indication that he is up to it.

Sin-

I am so glad you are not the Irish coach, words can't even begin to explain the sheer relief

O'Gara doesn't have a technique really,he is a speed bump. He can only really get the fella dwon using the toilet seat tackle or bringing the fella down on him. An out half shouldn't be one of your big tackle makers anyway. A backrow is expected to cover him.

Also this is up now

https://www.606v2.com/t9940-606v2-picks-the-best-irish-rwc-22-starting-centres

Sin é wrote:I've also produced some evidence that Ireland's attack is better with O'Gara at OH as Ireland score more tries with him on the pitch

No you haven't produced evidence that Irelands attack is better with ROG at 10. You've shown that statistically that we've scored more tries when O'Gara has been on which isn't the same.

This neglects the fact that in recent times O'Gara has started in generally "easier" games and has come on later in games when defences are tiring and we've been going for tries rather than playing percentages. Going for broke when in the final stages of an international is not the same as steering a team through the 1st 65 minutes. Ireland are also notoriously slow starters and strong finishers so we do tend to score late in games.

Stats...are able to prove....anything

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sin-

I am so glad you are not the Irish coach, words can't even begin to explain the sheer relief

Pete, you should read what you post yourself

"c) play nice and no provincial stuff, attack the arguement not the person making it OK "

The fact that Murray hasn't played once with Sexton is going to go against him. Jones should be on the plane though, as he is that bit older, came through a tough ordeal to get back playing and has a very good understanding with Earls now.

Stephen Jones is smaller than O'Gara but his defence is rarely called into question. ROG isn't a small fella, he's no bruiser either mind you. His weaknesses are in his technique, he goes high on bigger players.

Sexton did get bounced around by the Clermont last year, but he's stood up well to bosh merchants (NH and England to mention 2) since.

ROG doesn't have much of a technique. He goes high to try and slow fellas down and let his back row finish the job.

Mickado wrote:Stephen Jones is smaller than O'Gara but his defence is rarely called into question. ROG isn't a small fella, he's no bruiser either mind you. His weaknesses are in his technique, he goes high on bigger players.

Sexton did get bounced around by the Clermont last year, but he's stood up well to bosh merchants (NH and England to mention 2) since.

Stephen Jones 6'ft 1"- 207 lbs. (just 15 stone)
Ronan O'Gara 6ft - 184 lbs (just 13 stone)

Stephen Jones has 2 stone on Ronan O'Gara. Your right about Stephen Jones defence rarely being called into question though despite missing a fair few tackles and getting turned over regularly. Against Italy in this 6ns he got turnover twice and he missed one tackle, Against Ireland in Croke Park he missed half his tackles. If he was Ronan O'Gara he would have been savaged for that.

Sin é wrote:

Mickado wrote:Stephen Jones is smaller than O'Gara but his defence is rarely called into question. ROG isn't a small fella, he's no bruiser either mind you. His weaknesses are in his technique, he goes high on bigger players.

Sexton did get bounced around by the Clermont last year, but he's stood up well to bosh merchants (NH and England to mention 2) since.

Stephen Jones 6'ft 1"- 207 lbs. (just 15 stone)
Ronan O'Gara 6ft - 184 lbs (just 13 stone)

Stephen Jones has 2 stone on Ronan O'Gara. Your right about Stephen Jones defence rarely being called into question though despite missing a fair few tackles and getting turned over regularly. Against Italy in this 6ns he got turnover twice and he missed one tackle, Against Ireland in Croke Park he missed half his tackles. If he was Ronan O'Gara he would have been savaged for that.

ROG is 6ft and 13 stone? Jeysus, that's nearly as soppy as me. Well, fair play to him, its a miracle he's made it this far!

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:I've also produced some evidence that Ireland's attack is better with O'Gara at OH as Ireland score more tries with him on the pitch

No you haven't produced evidence that Irelands attack is better with ROG at 10. You've shown that statistically that we've scored more tries when O'Gara has been on which isn't the same.

This neglects the fact that in recent times O'Gara has started in generally "easier" games and has come on later in games when defences are tiring and we've been going for tries rather than playing percentages. Going for broke when in the final stages of an international is not the same as steering a team through the 1st 65 minutes. Ireland are also notoriously slow starters and strong finishers so we do tend to score late in games.

The required end result of attack is to score tries. Your attack is not successful if you are not scoring them.

Comparision so against Italy (which Sexton started against and played for 65 mins) and Scotland (ROG started and played for 68 mins).

Italy (Sexton)
1 try (BOD); 4 tackles. (ran the ball 4 times).

Scotland (O'Gara)
3 tries (including 1 himself). 9 tackles (none missed). ran the ball 3 times.

Funny, it didn't seem to work with Ireland finishing stronger when Sexton came on during the last 6Ns.

Sin you are completely ignoring the context of both games. Our line out was a shambles against Italy and we turned over more ball though individual handling errors and stupid penalties. None of which was down to Sexton.

If you are going to keep rolling out these pointless stats then please give some examples to support them because on their own they are meaningless.

The team were gash during the 6 nations. Nobody came out smelling of flowers.

ROG played well against Scotland, Sexton played well against England. They were all gash for every other game.

Sexton was at the helm of a team that scored a shed load of tries in the HC (bagging 4 himself), attack is his strong point.

Mick, I believe he got 5!!

the-goon wrote:Mick, I believe he got 5!!

Shut my mouth, yes he did. 2 v Racing metro away, 1 v Sarries away (MOTM) and 2 in the final (MOTM).

roddersm wrote:Sin you are completely ignoring the context of both games. Our line out was a shambles against Italy and we turned over more ball though individual handling errors and stupid penalties. None of which was down to Sexton.

If you are going to keep rolling out these pointless stats then please give some examples to support them because on their own they are meaningless.

I'm not ignoring the context of any game. I've given you the information when Sexton started , and ROG came on, I've given you info on when it happened the other way around.

Why would the lineout be a big issue when Sexton was playing against Italy. He was meant to be keeping the ball in hand. For the record, I think Scotland's lineout (which is the game O'Gara started in) was the best in the whole 6ns. Ireland's success rate was 66.7%. Against Italy it was 89%! Facts to disprove that theory as well.

Ireland gave away 14 penalties to Italy and 13 to Scotland.

None of the handling errors, scrum problems were down Sexton, but both he and O'Gara had to work with the same material.

Mickado wrote:

the-goon wrote:Mick, I believe he got 5!!

Shut my mouth, yes he did. 2 v Racing metro away, 1 v Sarries away (MOTM) and 2 in the final (MOTM).

I wonder how many tries would Leinster score without Nacewa in the team?

International defences are way better than club ones, though I haven't seen Leinster score too many tries against Munster even with O'Gara at OH. Rarely more than one try in it and sometimes there is a bit of luck involved when scored by either team against each other.

Sin é wrote:
I wonder how many tries would Leinster score without Nacewa in the team?

International defences are way better than club ones, though I haven't seen Leinster score too many tries against Munster even with O'Gara at OH. Rarely more than one try in it and sometimes there is a bit of luck involved when scored by either team against each other.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:
I wonder how many tries would Leinster score without Nacewa in the team?

International defences are way better than club ones, though I haven't seen Leinster score too many tries against Munster even with O'Gara at OH. Rarely more than one try in it and sometimes there is a bit of luck involved when scored by either team against each other.

Mickado wrote:

the-goon wrote:Mick, I believe he got 5!!

Shut my mouth, yes he did. 2 v Racing metro away, 1 v Sarries away (MOTM) and 2 in the final (MOTM).

Yep, funnily enough those were the 3 games I went to last season... maybe the IRFU should fly me over to the RWC as it seems i'm a lucky charm for Sexton....