Would Ireland beat England on neutral territory at the RWC?

This - to me - would be the ultimate test of strength for the Home Nations sides.

A resurgent England against a confident Ireland would be one hell of a contest.

I hope it happens.

Could only happen in the final couldn't it?

Yes.

Think they are unlikely to meet to be honest. It would require a specific series of results.

I think if they did meet it would be a tight game that could go either way.

Could happen in the SF as well

I hope for big things from Ireland this RWC (except beating England). They are a very complete team. So long as they believe in themselves they are capable of beating anyone!

We've won a ridiculous amount of games in London over the last few years, so I dont see why a neutral venue would be any different.

Plus, I couldnt see New Zealand as being completely "neutral" in such a match..... I cant see the locals being too, er, fond of seeing the men in white win a WC in NZ....

In any case, neither team will get within a sniff of the final so its a moot point.

Mickado wrote:Could only happen in the final couldn't it?

If we top our group and they top theirs then yes it could happen in the semi.

Ireland would probably win but would only happen if Ireland beat Australia.

If Ireland fans believe they can beat England at the RWC on neutral ground then surely they also believe Aus/SA can beat Ireland on neutral ground at the RWC? As the case is that it seems to be believed Ireland are set to wipe the floor with Aus and SA down in New Zealand.

nottins_jones wrote:If Ireland fans believe they can beat England at the RWC on neutral ground then surely they also believe Aus/SA can beat Ireland on neutral ground at the RWC? As the case is that it seems to be believed Ireland are set to wipe the floor with Aus and SA down in New Zealand.

Yawn. The majority of posters have said we would be underdogs but could beat those teams.

Seriously, fake nottins...

nottins_jones wrote:If Ireland fans believe they can beat England at the RWC on neutral ground then surely they also believe Aus/SA can beat Ireland on neutral ground at the RWC? As the case is that it seems to be believed Ireland are set to wipe the floor with Aus and SA down in New Zealand.

Come on dude, we can all read whats been written. Why lie like that? Anyway....

I reckon Scotland will have a very good chance of turning England over on neutral ground too. There was very little between the 2 sides when we met at twickers this year. With the majority of Auckland supporting Scotland it will be a pretty hostile crowd too.


Ireland and South Africa in the autumn showed how to beat England. Scotland were very close to acheiveing the same game plan.


Truth is the English backrow is pretty weak, most likely because England lack a pure "fetcher" blindside. Haskell for all his abilities is not effective at the breakdown, Croft is very good on the blindside but Easter again is IMO not a very good number 8. In truth I would have brought Narraway into the side to give better options at no 8.


Ireland's back row and South Africa's backrow ran riot against England and pulverised the Half backs all game long. They also were very effective at slowing down the ball when England were attacking and this forced England to commit more to the breakdown thus limiting their attacking options.

Scotland did the same but Discipline was the key factor in England winning the game against England, albeit a poor decision to send Barclay off was perhaps the most important decision in the match.

The backrow is England's biggest weakness and I reckon it will be fully exposed in the RWC. The Argies will target it for sure and so will Scotland. The group stages in pool B will be very interesting.

Oh Poopie.

I'd hoped for a serious debate.

But I fear that I'll have to lock it myself before the mods do iit.

Blame the Welshman !!

In answer to your question I would suggest Ireland would be slight favourites in same way England would be slight favourites against France and France would be slight favourites against Ireland.

All games would be close but the three teams seem to have an advantage against one of the other. Makes life interesting.

ruggerradge you struggle away from home against the best sides.

The Scots at Twickenham were negative and essentially played spoiling tactics. England never lost the lead did they?

Scotland are too one dimensional. They do not have the firepower to threaten the England try line. With rain and a good day with the boot they could win though.

The weather is the biggest weapon in Scotland's armoury. This is how they beat Australia and South Africa. Coupled with a dogged defence and good backrow effort they squeezed wins in these matches.

Presumably it's possible that we could meet in the semi's if we are both runners up too then?

To answer the original question, we wouldn't fear England, they probably wouldn't fear us, it would be a tight game but if I had to bet my life savings on it i'd go for an Irish win.

I think Scotland absolutely could squeeze out England with a good performance, albeit England are the clear favourites.

The gap between all the teams in the RWC is not as big as some people seem to think. I would say for England AND Ireland anywhere between an exit at the group stages and a semi-final is possible.

beshocked wrote:ruggerradge you struggle away from home against the best sides.

The Scots at Twickenham were negative and essentially played spoiling tactics. England never lost the lead did they?

Scotland are too one dimensional. They do not have the firepower to threaten the England try line. With rain and a good day with the boot they could win though.

The weather is the biggest weapon in Scotland's armoury. This is how they beat Australia and South Africa. Coupled with a dogged defence and good backrow effort they squeezed wins in these matches.

I don't think Scotland were negative that day. They contested the rucks fiercely which the English struggled with. That isn't negative tactics. That is how the game is meant to be played.

Completely agree about the lack of firepower and that's why I don't think Scotland can beat England.

Ireland would be favourites. I fancy our chances v England, Wales, Scotland, SA, FIJI and Samoa. Rather avoid France, NZ and Argentina.

I'd fancy our chances to be honest but not by much. I think our recent head to head is of very little significance but I do think we have better players in most positions and a bit more experience throughout the side.

I would be pretty wary about playing England though as I think they really want to get revenge for the 6N loss and for Leinster beating the tigers and Saints in the HEC. I could see that one going either way as there is not a lot between the sides.

leinsterbaby wrote:Ireland would be favourites. I fancy our chances v England, Wales, Scotland, SA, FIJI and Samoa. Rather avoid France, NZ and Argentina.

Argentina are not the force they once were. If we did play them there's probably only one certainty, it would be (another!) dire game.

tbh, I think that the result would be pre-decided if England wins the SI friendly at Lansdowne.

Beyond that it would be a fist-fight at which I'd love to be on the front row.

Argentina have a better head to head against us than we do at world cups. They are our bogey team. Glad they are not in our group.

Portnoy wrote:tbh, I think that the result would be pre-decided if England wins the SI friendly at Lansdowne.

I don't think that will be of much significance Portnoy. I suspect both teams will be more concerned with protecting front line players than the result.

I would say Scotland are closer to England than you give us credit for. I think the world cup will show just how close we are. England are the favourites, I 100% agree but Scotland have taken some decent scalps away recently Ireland at the tail end of the 6N and Argentina last summer.

In truth as a somewhat disgruntled Scotland fan we tend to play better away from home. Examples include recently :

6N France 2011
6N England 2011
Argentina 2010 *
6N Ireland 2010 *
6N Wales 2010

Granted we only one the ones with the asterisks but the performances were better. I would also say it's a touch unfair to say Scotland played negative "spoiling" rugby against England. We were up for it more at the breakdown but we did have a go with the ball in hand and in truth it was a damn good game of rugby.



I agree though, unless I see something special in our warm up games with Cusiter returning to marshall the backs a little better I think Scotland will again struggle to conjure up anything threatening outside of our loose forwards.

However there were glimers of hope against Italy when Jackson and Paterson swapped positions whilst attacking. It seemed to confuse the Italians quite a bit and it's a tactic Edinburgh play sometimes to great effect in the Magners Lea...Pro12. It does annoy me quite a bit when you consider the attacking Flair Edinburgh have in the pro12 with some very good strike runners (Cairns, King, Thompson) never getting a chance for Scotland.

No matter the result I expect the same thing in Auckland. Am I right in saying it's the last game in the pool? If so it will be played by bruised bodies!

With 7 wins out of 8 in recent years for Ireland, I think the question is can England beat Ireland?? Its England that would have to overcome the mental handicap of being beaten regularly home and away and even in the HC, Leinster and Munster (perhaps even Ulster) must have winning records against English sides over the past couple of years

Ireland would be slight favourites if they met in the WC.

Portnoy wrote:tbh, I think that the result would be pre-decided if England wins the SI friendly at Lansdowne.

Beyond that it would be a fist-fight at which I'd love to be on the front row.

Have the two teams ever met at the WC?

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I would say Scotland are closer to England than you give us credit for.

I agree. I think that match is very even and far from an forgone conclusion although England will certainly start as favourites.

ruggerradge2611 in 3 of those examples you lost....

You have not beaten England since 2008 and have not won at Twickers in over 20 years.

We won the 6 nations and you came 5th in the 6 nations for a reason.

It was an immensely boring game actually.Scotland make England look exciting.

Argentina and Scotland are two of the most boring teams in international rugby. At least England score tries.

I think you actually rate Scotland higher than they are. Their two biggest scalps were at home. Remember you have lost to Italy too.

the-goon in a world cup England are an entirely different matter. England have the world cup pedigree, Ireland don't.

Also the match wouldn't be in either London or Dublin.

beshocked wrote:ruggerradge2611 in 3 of those examples you lost....

You have not beaten England since 2008 and have not won at Twickers in over 20 years.

We won the 6 nations and you came 5th in the 6 nations for a reason.

It was an immensely boring game actually.Scotland make England look exciting.

Argentina and Scotland are two of the most boring teams in international rugby. At least England score tries.

I think you actually rate Scotland higher than they are. Their two biggest scalps were at home. Remember you have lost to Italy too.

the-goon in a world cup England are an entirely different matter. England have the world cup pedigree, Ireland don't.

Also the match wouldn't be in either London or Dublin.

I'm not really interested in this sort of discussion mostly because there is very little between England in Scotland, your track record against other opposition however is better.

2011 Twickenham, England 22 – 16 Scotland
2010 Murrayfield, Scotland 15 – 15 England
2009 Twickenham, England 26 – 12 Scotland
2008 Murrayfield, Scotland 15 – 9 England
2007 Twickenham, England 42 – 20 Scotland
2006 Murrayfield, Scotland 18 – 12 England

Over the last 6 meetings Scotland 2 wins, England 3 wins and a draw. Hardly compelling evidence that you are light years ahead in terms of ability.

On another note Scotland have improved in scoring tries, but I suppose it's the mark of a good team that we can beat teams like South Africa without scoring tries.... It's been a while since England took a Bok scalp.

As I said, very little between the 2 teams IMO, it may differ from yours and other peoples but yet there it is. England for one should be feeling a touch nervous considering how easily they were beaten by Ireland, furthermore you were hardly convincing against France or Scotland either. England played well against Italy and Wales and did enough to win the 6N, but it would be a little premature to think that such a performance in the 6N is enough to say without doubt you will beat Scotland in the world cup.

Reminder: This is a thread about whether Ireland would beat England on neutral ground.

Let the sidetracking go.

The English loss at Lansdowne was a learning experience - and a turning point in Hiberno-Anglic experience?

Of course we would we OWN the english in every sport

Last time we played them in the footie we beat them and they ripped our seats out of our stadium

Cricket which we dont even play we still manage to beat them in the World Cup and thier best player is Irish LOL

And Rugby we beat them the majority of the time at that aswell

They even tried to play us in the Gaelic the other week and got a hammering in that aswell

We also own them in the boxing aswell just look at Fury Chisorsa the other night

Portnoy wrote:
The English loss at Lansdowne was a learning experience - and a turning point in Hiberno-Anglic experience?

Well I certainly hope we learned from it because our 2nd half performance wasn't up to scratch and we clearly underestimated Steve Thompsons turn of pace.

Please stop you are losing all credibility.

C'mon You Irish wrote:We also own them in the boxing aswell just look at Fury Chisorsa the other night

Fury is English.

roddersm wrote:

C'mon You Irish wrote:We also own them in the boxing aswell just look at Fury Chisorsa the other night

Fury is English.

To be fair, so is this guy.

geoff998rugby wrote:Please stop you are losing all credibility.

I didn't realise I had any....

Portnoy wrote:Reminder: This is a thread about whether Ireland would beat England on neutral ground.

Let the sidetracking go.

The English loss at Lansdowne was a learning experience - and a turning point in Hiberno-Anglic experience?

I’m not sure why it would be. England got a hiding. Getting a hiding is rarely much of a learning experience. Unless they plan on beating Ireland using only the fire of revenge in their belly? Belly fire can only get any team so far.

Fury is English lol what are you on about he is a traveller and his dad is from Galway

OK. All this only enhances my expectations to the next Anglo-Irish national play-off.

I'd love it to be on neutral turf though. That would be a proper Test.

Portnoy wrote:OK. All this only enhances my expectations to the next Anglo-Irish national play-off.

I'd love it to be on neutral turf though. That would be a proper Test.

As opposed to the proper test's in Twickenham.

You haven't beaten us at Twickenham in over 20 years!

Can you actually beat a top side and score one try in the process? I doubt it.

Look at the win margins. We destroy you or play in 1st gear. Only when we are dragged into a turgid battle it is close.

Scotland are nowhere near England - you finish below us in virtually every 6 nations if not in all of them.

No it is the mark of a boring team. My club team are boring too but we are AP champions so at least we are effective. You play a boring style and regularly come 5th or 6th in the 6nations!

Scotland are one of the worst sides at scoring tries.

Question Would Ashton dare to tackle ROG if they came up against each other in the world cup

C'mon You Irish wrote:Question Would Ashton dare to tackle ROG if they came up against each other in the world cup

Where about’s in the Eire are you from?

Wexford Ballygarrett

I apologise if i have offended ruggerradge.

What I mean is that I believe Scotland play in a certain style which means that if the conditions are right they are very dangerous. In most circumstances England should have too much for Scotland to handle.

I will not undestimate Scotland despite us being favourites.

I believe Scotland need to become a more all rounded team if they are really going to progress. Defensively you are strong. Your backrow is excellent. It is your attacking prowess which is the weakness.

C'mon You Irish wrote:Fury is English lol what are you on about he is a traveller and his dad is from Galway

What does his father have to do with anything?

I have a Scottish great grandfather, doesn't mean my grandfather was Scottish.

Notch for someone who is so Irish i am hugely disspointed that you thought Fury was English pmsl