Would Ireland beat England on neutral territory at the RWC?

First topic message reminder :

This - to me - would be the ultimate test of strength for the Home Nations sides.

A resurgent England against a confident Ireland would be one hell of a contest.

I hope it happens.

Greybeard Fury has Irish Family he sees himself as an Irish man thus he is Irish quite simple really mate

Anyways on topic i would be hugely disapointed and shocked if we lost to England in the world cup this year

We'll have to run this one through our computers... and get back to you.

beshocked wrote:I apologise if i have offended ruggerradge.

What I mean is that I believe Scotland play in a certain style which means that if the conditions are right they are very dangerous. In most circumstances England should have too much for Scotland to handle.

I will not undestimate Scotland despite us being favourites.

I believe Scotland need to become a more all rounded team if they are really going to progress. Defensively you are strong. Your backrow is excellent. It is your attacking prowess which is the weakness.

It would take more than that to offend me mate. Scottish rugby has been offending me for 10 years and I can still forgive that!



What I'm trying to say is yes England are a better side, history is on England's side and yes they are the favourites to top the group. However this is the Rugby world cup and to be honest pool B is probably going to be one of the most feircely contested.

C'mon You Irish wrote:Notch for someone who is so Irish i am hugely disspointed that you thought Fury was English pmsl

I was talking about you, not the boxer

By the way, it's possible for someone to be both Irish and English you know...

I'll find out if he's really Irish or an imposter.

1. Are you a mammy's boy?
2. Do you have a slightly unsymmetrical face?
3. Are you very friendly to strangers?
4. Do you tell exaggerated stories?
5. Have you ever had your stomach pumped?
6. Do you communicate affection by insulting people?
7. Are you keen on sarcasm?
8. Can you count the number of times you've had a tan on one hand?
9. Is drinking the major element of your social life?
10. Do you mind being mistaken for an English person when you're abroad?

I agree the pool will be fierce contested. More so than the Wales one though?


Anyway back on topic - Ireland would have the psychological edge but because of England's RWC pedigree writing them off would be foolish.

If England continue with the poorly balanced backrow and awful centres then yes Ireland would win easily.

Feckless Rogue wrote:I'll find out if he's really Irish or an imposter.

1. Are you a mammy's boy?
2. Do you have a slightly unsymmetrical face?
3. Are you very friendly to strangers?
4. Do you tell exaggerated stories?
5. Have you ever had your stomach pumped?
6. Do you communicate affection by insulting people?
7. Are you keen on sarcasm?
8. Can you count the number of times you've had a tan on one hand?
9. Is drinking the major element of your social life?
10. Do you mind being mistaken for an English person when you're abroad?

Jeysus, does the foreign affiars office know that this list exists?! Amazing!

Feckless Rogue wrote:I'll find out if he's really Irish or an imposter.

1. Are you a mammy's boy?
2. Do you have a slightly unsymmetrical face?
3. Are you very friendly to strangers?
4. Do you tell exaggerated stories?
5. Have you ever had your stomach pumped?
6. Do you communicate affection by insulting people?
7. Are you keen on sarcasm?
8. Can you count the number of times you've had a tan on one hand?
9. Is drinking the major element of your social life?
10. Do you mind being mistaken for an English person when you're abroad?

I don't tink oi've ever had a tan on one hand

Ireland would have a very good shot at beating England. Over the last few years and particularly after 04 Ireland realise they can beat England. It seems to be a bit of a psychological thing for England. Much like Ireland when they play France.

I would certainly make England the underdogs in any encounter with Ireland. However, as Ireland historically don't play well as favourites that would give England a distinct advantage which would, of course, then make Ireland underdogs, where they excel, making them definite favourites... and so on...

And even now, no-one responds to the OP. Deflection and diversion does not confront the issue:Would Ireland beat England on neutral territory at the RWC?

I did at the start. My answer was 'Yeah, maybe'. Ireland have a good record against England and I'm always fairly confident we'll raise our game for them more than any other side.

However, when you get to the knockout stages of the World Cup- anything can happen. 50/50 in most games.

Portnoy wrote:And even now, no-one responds to the OP. Deflection and diversion does not confront the issue:Would Ireland beat England on neutral territory at the RWC?

That was already answered wasn't it? Ireland have a great record against England, in England, so a neutral venue is hardly important.

C'mon You Irish wrote:Question Would Ashton dare to tackle ROG if they came up against each other in the world cup

He wouldn't have to tackle him... just run at him and he'd fall.



As for England vs Ireland in the RWC - my money (not my heart) would be on England to edge a hard battle, Im afraid. Check the pedigree. England grow in a RWC. Ireland never do. They owe us - big time. I hope we avoid them. We MUST beat Oz to progress beyond a QF. Then Wales and History beckons... Everything after that would be a massive bonus.

Thomond wrote:Ireland would have a very good shot at beating England. Over the last few years and particularly after 04 Ireland realise they can beat England. It seems to be a bit of a psychological thing for England. Much like Ireland when they play France.

England in the SH, Ireland against England awayish.

There is a sweetish smell of smell of success about it.

It would be a sweet game - especially if the SI game in Dublin had been a really tight one.

(Btw. I Expect England to win all three SI warm-ups). Now on record.

Gibson wrote:As for England vs Ireland in the RWC - my money (not my heart) would be on England to edge a hard battle, Im afraid. Check the pedigree. England grow in a RWC. Ireland never do. They owe us - big time. I hope we avoid them. We MUST beat Oz to progress beyond a QF. Then Wales and History beckons... Everything after that would be a massive bonus.

Very true about England, but they've frequently been seeded higher, which has helped them quite a bit.

Portnoy wrote:
(Btw. I Expect England to win all three SI warm-ups). Now on record.

Well I expect Ireland to win 3 warm-up games too and I think we'll lose to France away, so now we have problem...

"Neutral" territory? New zEngland? are you kidding?

roddersm wrote:

Feckless Rogue wrote:I'll find out if he's really Irish or an imposter.

1. Are you a mammy's boy?
2. Do you have a slightly unsymmetrical face?
3. Are you very friendly to strangers?
4. Do you tell exaggerated stories?
5. Have you ever had your stomach pumped?
6. Do you communicate affection by insulting people?
7. Are you keen on sarcasm?
8. Can you count the number of times you've had a tan on one hand?
9. Is drinking the major element of your social life?
10. Do you mind being mistaken for an English person when you're abroad?

Frickin' hilarious. And scary. Real scary.

That feicer Feckless has been readin' me diary again. Brilliant.

Again the Hibernians deflect the question.

Would Ireland beat England on neutral territory at the RWC?

I want this game to happen

Portnoy wrote:Would Ireland beat England on neutral territory at the RWC?

yes.

(That better?)

Portnoy wrote:Again the Hibernians deflect the question.

Would Ireland beat England on neutral territory at the RWC?

I want this game to happen

Hibernians? How roman of you.
To answer your question. Yes, of course we'd beat you. An England Victory would be even be a shock to most rugby fans.
I also want this game to happen.

greybeard wrote:

Portnoy wrote:Would Ireland beat England on neutral territory at the RWC?

yes.

(That better?)

Yes.

That's a 100% improvement in the debate.

That's why the Lansdowne encounter in the SIs is so important.

Not just for the RWC 2011 - but for bitter contests in the years to come.

Portnoy wrote:

greybeard wrote:

Portnoy wrote:Would Ireland beat England on neutral territory at the RWC?

yes.

(That better?)

Yes.

That's a 100% improvement in the debate.

That's why the Lansdowne encounter in the SIs is so important.

Not just for the RWC 2011 - but for bitter contests in the years to come.

What makes you thin the next test in Lansdowne will turn out any different from the last one? HC form?

Mickado possibly based on Amlin challenge cup form?

Please don't keep reminding of the HC.

England haven't played a test since that game, so this optimism must be coming from somewhere. I have no idea what an "Amlin cup?" is. Perhaps it's a type of boat??

It's a jockstrap isn't it?

Lovely Irish confidence building up here.

England no chance at Lansdowne?

Whatever goes around comes around.

I think that England will reverse your confidence. Not RWC 2011, but 2012-4.

And as I said - see you in the RWC 2015 final.

Portnoy,England could easily win the game in Lansdowne it is a warm up so who knows what team either side will put out?

Thomond wrote:Portnoy,England could easily win the game in Lansdowne it is a warm up so who knows what team either side will put out?

Depends how it's played.

If either side doesn't treat it as a Test then they'd hand the psychological initiative to the other.

And as Ireland have zip in terms of SH away success, if they lose it would be cataclysmic.

So may I repeat - England need to win all three SIs. That's essential.

And if England or Ireland (or Wales for that matter) go into the SIs fray with the idea that it's a 'warm-up' then they'll come home deservedly empty handed.

Portnoy wrote:
And as Ireland have zip in terms of SH away success, if they lose it would be cataclysmic.

I'm not sure how the result against England in the warm-ups changes our SH record?

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys about the results in the SI's and I think it's far more important that we play some cohesive rugby and get some of our long term absentees some much needed game time. The results are secondary.

Portnoy wrote:Again the Hibernians deflect the question.

Would Ireland beat England on neutral territory at the RWC?

I want this game to happen

Bloody English... like their soul-bro German forefathers... no craic atall atall... :Tigerale:

Ireland have a sequence of one whole game against serious opposition.

England lost their GS aspirations.

The way I see it is that England should trounce Wales at home, beat them away and edge Ireland in Dublin'.

That would be a progression.

Really mate - they are not warm-ups, they are Tests.

Portnoy wrote:Ireland have a sequence of one whole game against serious opposition.

England lost their GS aspirations.

The way I see it is that England should trounce Wales at home, beat them away and edge Ireland in Dublin'.

That would be a progression.

Really mate - they are not warm-ups, they are Tests.

Totally agree. Albeit, both squads will shift players in and out pre RWC - it is not a just a Test - it is Rugby WAR.



As it should be.

Portnoy wrote:
The way I see it is that England should trounce Wales at home, beat them away and edge Ireland in Dublin'.

That would be a progression.

Really mate - they are not warm-ups, they are Tests.

Good for you portnoy I'm glad these "Tests" are so important to you.

If returning Lions Stephen Ferris, Rob Kearney, Geordan Murphy and Jerry Flannery all prove their fitness and young guns like Felix Jones and Conor Murray all get some gametime then that would be progression for us

I'll worry about the results once the WC kicks off. As long as we beat England when it matters thats all I'm worried about

I doubt that Wales will be going all out in these warm-up games. Don't want to be too battered before going into our RWC pool... Having said that I'd put out the strongest teams available for the England tests and make 15-20 changes for Argentina. Way I see it is that England are the most similar team to South Africa, beat them and we stand a chance of beating SA.

You have to take ome momentum into the RWC.

And as England have more kinetic energy into both the RWC and performance down-under the Irish have to win this game.

I'm pleased you see it my way Gibbo.

Don't get me wrong Portnoy I want to see us win these games but that is not the priority.

roddersm wrote:Don't get me wrong Portnoy I want to see us win these games but that is not the priority.

I understand that England desperately need to reverse their 6N defeat to bury their demons but the result of that game is not as important to us.

OK rodders,

Would you really want to go into a RWC on the back of a home reversal against a team which you hung your only crumb of comfort from in the spring?

No. I can't believe that...

I also see Rodders point Portnoy. Its not development at this stage... theirin lies madness. And I agree with you on momentum and these SI's being suitably treated as full-on real Tests. It's vital for preparation.


But, in Ireland's case - as Rodders states, we have 3 or 4 players that need to be eased back in to their once rightful status - as experienced 1st teamers. And 2 or 3 players that need to be tested in case those dont show up.



Its a tricky balance.



Big question is: Do England have the same perspective going into these SI's? Or, are they more ready than us - in that regard?



I suspect they are.

geoff998rugby wrote:Blame the Welshman !!

In answer to your question I would suggest Ireland would be slight favourites in same way England would be slight favourites against France and France would be slight favourites against Ireland.

All games would be close but the three teams seem to have an advantage against one of the other. Makes life interesting.

Geoff, as ever your spot on the money. Agree with that assessment 100%

hmm Portnoy I think you are putting a bit to much significance on that 6N game.

I'm not sure exactly what Irish rugby fans need to be comforted about? Yes it was a disappointing 6N but our provinces had an excellent season and we managed to bring some new players into the national squad.

Anyway it wouldn't be a reversal because it was the 6N game which mattered and that is done and dusted. A victory for England in te warm ups won't change the fact that England came up short when they were chasing a GS.

roddersm wrote:hmm Portnoy I think you are putting a bit to much significance on that 6N game.

No rodders.

That ferkin hurt. This is England we're talking about.

The Irish might currently feel smug about their comfy Provincial and country position.

But I want England and English clubs to restore their position at the top of the top table.

C'mon You Irish wrote:Fury is English lol what are you on about he is a traveller and his dad is from Galway

If he's a traveller, isn't he from all over the place - sort of?

Don't really care if we lose to England in the warm-ups if we go on to do very well in the tournament. I also don't think the result will have as much influence on how our respective World Cup campaigns go as is being mooted here. For England it's MUCH more important as their biggest threat in the group stages is first up; Argentina. They must take some momentum. Our first game is against the United States; ideally we will beat England and take the momentum from that but if we don't it's not the end of the world for us.

I want to win of course, but I would actually prefer a good performance and a narrow defeat to a poor performance and a narrow win. This is, after all, a dress rehearsal whereas the last time we played them was the real thing.

If the last game is anything to go by, they'd hammer us wherever we are. England seem to be gaining in confidence, but it is very fragile. I think we’ll be a decent team in a few years time and the England/ Ireland results will be more even, but right now they have got our number.

Notch wrote:Don't really care if we lose to England in the warm-ups if we go on to do very well in the tournament. I also don't think the result will have as much influence on how our respective World Cup campaigns go as is being mooted here. For England it's MUCH more important as their biggest threat in the group stages is first up; Argentina. They must take some momentum. Our first game is against the United States; ideally we will beat England and take the momentum from that but if we don't it's not the end of the world for us.

I want to win of course, but I would actually prefer a good performance and a narrow defeat to a poor performance and a narrow win. This is, after all, a dress rehearsal whereas the last time we played them was the real thing.

Logical.



Id go further and would have sacrificed 2 x 6-N's, to make a RWC SF. But you know that already for years now.

People laugh at Marc Lièvremont. Maybe they (NZ) - and the rest, wont laugh after the real thing. If France beat NZ in the Pool(and they can) - all Hell will break loose. People easily forget 6-N wins. But they will never forget the RWC one's. Ever. Hence the World in its' title.