Ireland vs Scotland (part of Irish team)

First topic message reminder :

I know someone who was in camp with the Irish team for the last week, talked to him and seen his pics and from what I am aware, the team will look something like this

-Flannery-
-
-Leamy??-
Boss-Sexton
Wallace-McFadden
Fitzgerald-Kearney-Trimble

Don't know props, locks or flankers, but I have seen a lot of Court at 3, Cullen has been heavily involved, so too has Ryan.

Leamy will play don't know if 6 or 8 but would imagine 8 as I've seen McLaughlin a lot in the pics doing team runs.
Jones will get game time?
Murray will bench if TOL can't get over a small niggle in time.

Can people piece together more bits? Happy with that much of the team??

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Whan is it your squad gets announced guys?

Thursday lunchtime I think.

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sexton is our first choice outhalf.

If Darcy doesn't make it Wallace is most likely to be our first choice 12.
We need to play them together so that they have some experience playing together.

What better opportunity than in a warm up game where nothing tangible is on offer other than IRB points???

McFadden surely must be in with a shout as well - I would also think that Earls/BOD combination (with 13 on BOD's back) might be an option.

There is more on offer than IRB points. There is also momentum.

Pete, interesting comment made by Gaffney in the IT yesterday - he said that the (Queensland) Reds kicked the ball more than anyone else last year in the Super 14 last season, and they won it.

I thought it was an interesting comment for him to make

1: I said anything tangible on offer. Momentum is not tangible.
2: McFadden is in with a shot yes. I believe he will be starting 13 against Scot because Earls is 1 week behind on pre-season
3: As I think everyone is aware of, BOD isn't available for this game
4: There is a giant step up from club rugby to international level rugby

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Against Samoa last autumn though, D'Arcy was dropped for Wallace with ROG & Stringer starting

I had forgotten that. Strings, Rog and Paddy Wallace at 9, 10 and 12. The 3 of them together would equal the weight of an average Samoan.

Fair play to them.

Wallace lasted the whole game without getting injured as well - fair play and ROG scored a try
Strings is will able to look after himself

Sin é wrote:

Starting BOD / D'Arcy / Sexton / Reddan against the likes of Fiji was though.

That was in 2009!!!! What are you talking about?? Sexton is an experienced player and does not need a comfort blanket. He's our 1st choice 10 and arguably our best player and there is no reason to bring ROG in because we are missing BOD, in fact that is even more reason to play Sexton.

Just going into the midfield shbang, what do people think of the idea of a possible Wallace-McFadden combination for this game?

Personally I think it will be pretty good, both are pretty well rounded. McF has the pace and Wallace the offloading ability. Very good kicking midfield we shall have. Lots of creativity too.

Artful_Dodger wrote:Fitzgerald oh god.....

Wallace. Oh God.

Boyne wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:Fitzgerald oh god.....

Wallace. Oh God.

Boyne. Oh God.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Sin é wrote:

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sexton is our first choice outhalf.

If Darcy doesn't make it Wallace is most likely to be our first choice 12.
We need to play them together so that they have some experience playing together.

What better opportunity than in a warm up game where nothing tangible is on offer other than IRB points???

McFadden surely must be in with a shout as well - I would also think that Earls/BOD combination (with 13 on BOD's back) might be an option.

There is more on offer than IRB points. There is also momentum.

Pete, interesting comment made by Gaffney in the IT yesterday - he said that the (Queensland) Reds kicked the ball more than anyone else last year in the Super 14 last season, and they won it.

I thought it was an interesting comment for him to make

1: I said anything tangible on offer. Momentum is not tangible.
2: McFadden is in with a shot yes. I believe he will be starting 13 against Scot because Earls is 1 week behind on pre-season
3: As I think everyone is aware of, BOD isn't available for this game
4: There is a giant step up from club rugby to international level rugby

1. Is a Win tangible? (to get a winning momentum going, you need to win).
2: With injury woes, one week behind is not huge. (by the way, why is Earls 1 week behind - surely he should be at the same stage as McFadden).
3: You gave the impression that you were talking about the world cup, not just this game.
4: Not sure what that point is about, but I wouldn't think that the international players that play for the Reds would change their style of play too much.

Oh lads let's not go there please.
Let's play nice.

At least it isn't wallace at 10 and Fitzgerald at 15. Always look on the bright side of life

1: Not really me thinks but yeah some would say it is
2: Not sure, that is what my source has told me though
3: Apologies didn't mean to give that impression
4: Their style may not be as effective at international level

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Starting BOD / D'Arcy / Sexton / Reddan against the likes of Fiji was though.

That was in 2009!!!! What are you talking about?? Sexton is an experienced player and does not need a comfort blanket. He's our 1st choice 10 and arguably our best player and there is no reason to bring ROG in because we are missing BOD, in fact that is even more reason to play Sexton.

Eh, Samoa - last November D'Arcy was back in the following week with Sexton at OH.

None of us have ever seen Sexton play without BOD in an international/important game. Leinster roll BOD out even if he is on one leg for the big ones for some reason.

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Starting BOD / D'Arcy / Sexton / Reddan against the likes of Fiji was though.

That was in 2009!!!! What are you talking about?? Sexton is an experienced player and does not need a comfort blanket. He's our 1st choice 10 and arguably our best player and there is no reason to bring ROG in because we are missing BOD, in fact that is even more reason to play Sexton.

Eh, Samoa - last November D'Arcy was back in the following week with Sexton at OH.

None of us have ever seen Sexton play without BOD in an international/important game. Leinster roll BOD out even if he is on one leg for the big ones for some reason.

Saracens v Leinster in wembley.

Sexton gets man of the match scoring all 25 points and BOD is the water boy.

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Starting BOD / D'Arcy / Sexton / Reddan against the likes of Fiji was though.

That was in 2009!!!! What are you talking about?? Sexton is an experienced player and does not need a comfort blanket. He's our 1st choice 10 and arguably our best player and there is no reason to bring ROG in because we are missing BOD, in fact that is even more reason to play Sexton.

Eh, Samoa - last November D'Arcy was back in the following week with Sexton at OH.

None of us have ever seen Sexton play without BOD in an international/important game. Leinster roll BOD out even if he is on one leg for the big ones for some reason.

Leinster vs Clermont. O'malley at 13 hugely inexperienced at that level at the time.

Sin, if we haven't seen Sexton without BOD then why not play him now in a warm up game? This is the point I don't understand.

red_stag wrote:Sin, if we haven't seen Sexton without BOD then why not play him now in a warm up game? This is the point I don't understand.

+1

Makes sense to do it now IMO.

I like the idea of Sexton-Wallace-McFadden (or Earls for that matter)
Think that could be quite a good centre pairing and is quite versatile in the way they can play the game.

I like the idea of Sexton-Wallace-McFadden (or Earls for that matter)

If everyone in the squad was fit i'd go for any 3 of those 4 for the Scotland game. I'd love to see what they can do together.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:

Sin é wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Starting BOD / D'Arcy / Sexton / Reddan against the likes of Fiji was though.

That was in 2009!!!! What are you talking about?? Sexton is an experienced player and does not need a comfort blanket. He's our 1st choice 10 and arguably our best player and there is no reason to bring ROG in because we are missing BOD, in fact that is even more reason to play Sexton.

Eh, Samoa - last November D'Arcy was back in the following week with Sexton at OH.

None of us have ever seen Sexton play without BOD in an international/important game. Leinster roll BOD out even if he is on one leg for the big ones for some reason.

Leinster vs Clermont. O'malley at 13 hugely inexperienced at that level at the time.

No bad reflection on O'Malley (or any of them) as it was away in Clermont, but Leinster lost and D'Arcy was outside Sexton so it wasn't a completely new centre partnership.

Sin E what do we do when BOD retires. You still fail to convince anyone why ROG should play ahead of Sexton in this match.

If it’s no bad reflection on them then what’s your point?

Stag,the game is on BBC. This is the ideal game to try out Earls at centre with Wallace and Sexton. We want to take at least one win against France and will field a relatively strong side and the England game is after the time the squad is picked.

They got a bonus point and it was a new centre partnership for HCup level. One of the hardest places to go in France too.

They were up against Rougerie and ah feck forgot his name but he is good I remember that much.

Yeah Mick I'd be with you there. I think this partnership has a lot of potential

Thomond- I do believe Earls isn't quite ready for this game yet. I'd love to see him in Bordeaux though with wallace and Sexton, I think that could be awesome!

Then Cave is worth a shot at centre.

red_stag wrote:Sin, if we haven't seen Sexton without BOD then why not play him now in a warm up game? This is the point I don't understand.

It doesn't matter what WE see. Its risky that it might not work out too well and then the inevitable criticism will get into the heads of the players and then they start trying too hard etc. I think Sexton (like Earls) is a confidence player.

Ask yourself do you think experience is a factor in winning games? (as in experience of playing combinations, no of international games they have played etc).

Much of Munster's bad form this season in the Heineken Cup has been put down to a very unsettled centre partnership (along with scrum difficulties). Munster got away with it obviously at Magners level. But not at Heineken Cup level. Same would apply to international.

Looks, its just my opinion (based on how I've noticed coaches putting teams together).

But Sin, its like saying we shouldn't try Keatley at 10 against La Rochelle as he has no experience with Danny Barnes and Duncan Williams.

Sin,eventually there will come a day when BOD won't be there,why not take of training wheels now?

red_stag wrote:Sin E what do we do when BOD retires. You still fail to convince anyone why ROG should play ahead of Sexton in this match.

When BOD retires, whoever is his replacement will have been bedded in so it won't be completely out of the blue. Sexton will be more experienced at that stage as well. Bear in mind his 12 starts (and 4 appearances from the bench) doesn't make him a hugely experienced international when you compare him to Toby Flood with 37 caps (not all as the pressurised OH position) and they are both the same age.

red_stag wrote:But Sin, its like saying we shouldn't try Keatley at 10 against La Rochelle as he has no experience with Danny Barnes and Duncan Williams.

There is no similarity between Scotland and La Rochelle

Sin é wrote: I think Sexton (like Earls) is a confidence player.

Well dropping him because his mucker isn't playing is unlikely to do his confidence much good.

I think you are talking nonsence anyway. Sexton is one of the leader in our side and the exact player you would want with us missing someone like BOD. It's McFadden that needs someone familiar and experienced alongside him, not Sexton.

ROG doesn't bring anything in terms of leadership that Sexton doesn't.

Sin é wrote:

red_stag wrote:But Sin, its like saying we shouldn't try Keatley at 10 against La Rochelle as he has no experience with Danny Barnes and Duncan Williams.

There is no similarity between Scotland and La Rochelle

Don;t be so flipping mean to la Rochelle. No need to make that comparison

Sin é wrote: Sexton will be more experienced at that stage as well. Bear in mind his 12 starts (and 4 appearances from the bench) doesn't make him a hugely experienced international when you compare him to Toby Flood with 37 caps (not all as the pressurised OH position) and they are both the same age.

Toby Flood doesn't have two HEC winners medals does he?

Sin,

Do you not trust Sexton to have a game without those two in a pre-tournament warm up?

roddersm wrote:ROG doesn't bring anything in terms of leadership that Sexton doesn't.

I'd disagree with that - its a very different kind of leadership. ROG brings the "I've been there and done it all before, it'll be ok" kind of leadership. Sexton can't offer that. He has another type. Still would start Sexton though.

Realistically there is no choice he has to play without BOD and Darcy now as they are unfit and so is ROG.

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote: I think Sexton (like Earls) is a confidence player.

Well dropping him because his mucker isn't playing is unlikely to do his confidence much good.

I think you are talking nonsence anyway. Sexton is one of the leader in our side and the exact player you would want with us missing someone like BOD. It's McFadden that needs someone familiar and experienced alongside him, not Sexton.

ROG doesn't bring anything in terms of leadership that Sexton doesn't.

In your opinion ....

He is not being dropped for one thing.

Decision making is required - for instance, in the Magners final, Leinster made some poor decisions. For instance, when DOC (I think) was binned, they decided to kick the points rather than go for the scrum and would have scored a try. Now, I know that wasn't Sexton's decision, but I'd expect Sexton to have questioned Leo on it.

"they decided to kick the points rather than go for the scrum and would have scored a try"

How can you be so sure Sin. That is a ridiculous thing to say

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:ROG doesn't bring anything in terms of leadership that Sexton doesn't.

I'd disagree with that - its a very different kind of leadership. ROG brings the "I've been there and done it all before, it'll be ok" kind of leadership. Sexton can't offer that. He has another type. Still would start Sexton though.

Except ROG hasn't done anything Sexton hasn't, he just thinks he has.

I'm surprised no one has considered the doomsday scenario.

Rog Injured, Sexton behind in pre season,

Dern dern deeehrn........... Paddy Wallace at 10

Grand slam rodders?

That was an open goal mate.

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:ROG doesn't bring anything in terms of leadership that Sexton doesn't.

I'd disagree with that - its a very different kind of leadership. ROG brings the "I've been there and done it all before, it'll be ok" kind of leadership. Sexton can't offer that. He has another type. Still would start Sexton though.

Except ROG hasn't done anything Sexton hasn't, he just thinks he has.

Grand slam?

Jenifer McLadyboy wrote:I'm surprised no one has considered the doomsday scenario.

Rog Injured, Sexton behind in pre season,

Dern dern deeehrn........... Paddy Wallace at 10

I have seen pics of training games and the backline was very easy to see

9 Boss
10 Sexton
11 Fitz
12 Wallace
13 McFadden
14 Trimble
15 Kearney

Ouch Rodders, walked into that one

My source also thinks this will be the team

roddersm wrote:

red_stag wrote:

roddersm wrote:ROG doesn't bring anything in terms of leadership that Sexton doesn't.

I'd disagree with that - its a very different kind of leadership. ROG brings the "I've been there and done it all before, it'll be ok" kind of leadership. Sexton can't offer that. He has another type. Still would start Sexton though.

Except ROG hasn't done anything Sexton hasn't, he just thinks he has.

Do you really think that? Maybe I'll shuffle over to SinE's side of the argument. Think thats just plain silly. He's never been to a World Cup. ROG has been to 2. He's never been a Lion. ROG has been on 3 tours. He has about 10% of the caps O'Gara does, never won a 6 Nations nor won against Australia or France.

Rodders,that was a ridiculous comment.

Strengths and weaknesses of a Sexton-Wallace-McFadden combination against Scotland anybody???

Don't mind what Rodders comes out with, he is only trying to wind me up (and failing miserably).

What he doesn't realise that this isn't a ROG v Sexton debate.

Its about the balance of experience in the backs - how do you combine it.

I think Kidney is more likely to start McFadden outside Sexton with BOD missing. If he is starting Paddy Wallace at 12, he is more than likely going to start ROG.

Sorry I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but it is very unsafe to start ROG as he is not 100%. Can't you see that?

Well goal kicking shouldnt be an issue

And if he picks both (as Pete is suggesting) it is one of the trademarked Declan Kidney left field solutions up there with picking Denis Hurley and Tomas O'Leary for the knockout stages in 2008.

I would have said the biggest weakness of that combination is the size of them. When you think the likes of Strokosch, Beattie, Morrison, Lamont and Walker will do the majority of the physical ball carrying for Scotland I can't think it will be too long before that defensive axis starts to creak. BOD is a monster in defence and does a great job of marshalling the backs.

Defensivly that combo may be pretty weak.

But going forward they could be lethal since McFadden is very very good with the ball in hand in broken play.

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Strengths and weaknesses of a Sexton-Wallace-McFadden combination against Scotland anybody???

Strengths –

The centers are quicker than BOD and Darcy
Better kicking options out of hand

Weaknesses –

Wallace lacks strength at the breakdown (McFadden has it in spades)
Defence is not as good
Inexperience playing with eachother – not a BAD thing, but could be a weakness in the short term

Mickado wrote:Grand slam rodders?

That was an open goal mate.

Yeah I knew as soon as I posted it that one would come back to bite me.....

How about this then.... I don't think ROG brings anything to this particular game that we are likely to need that Sexton doesn't have already in abundence.