Ireland vs Scotland (part of Irish team)

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Tue 02 Aug 2011, 10:39 am

First topic message reminder :

I know someone who was in camp with the Irish team for the last week, talked to him and seen his pics and from what I am aware, the team will look something like this

-Flannery-
-
-Leamy??-
Boss-Sexton
Wallace-McFadden
Fitzgerald-Kearney-Trimble

Don't know props, locks or flankers, but I have seen a lot of Court at 3, Cullen has been heavily involved, so too has Ryan.

Leamy will play don't know if 6 or 8 but would imagine 8 as I've seen McLaughlin a lot in the pics doing team runs.
Jones will get game time?
Murray will bench if TOL can't get over a small niggle in time.

Can people piece together more bits? Happy with that much of the team??

by **Notch** Tue 02 Aug 2011, 9:22 pm

Hah! Thought as much Smile

The real team is here guys; http://tinyurl.com/irelandxv

by Sin é Tue 02 Aug 2011, 9:35 pm

Notch wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Notch wrote:There's consistently average which won't win us this thing and hasn't won us mach to date. Then there's occasionally brilliant... only one way for Sexton to develop consistency, and thats on the pitch and in the green shirt.

Well, the 'consistently average' outhalf has a far better success rate than the 'occasionally brilliant' one. I'm sure his team mates appreciate their 'consistently average' win bonuses to their 'occasionally brilliant ones.'

1. Munster appreciate it?
2. I'm sure they do, but he's not the best outhalf in Ireland at provincial level is he? And Sexton needs more gametime to get to that level consistently for Ireland.

3. I really don't understand the point your trying to make.

Stag- sounds like a WUM to me man

1. His Ireland team mates will earn more money when they win. Wink

(6Ns win ratios: O'Gara's win ratio is 69%; Sexton is 55.5%).
2. O'Gara would be the most consistently 'average' outhalf at provincial level. (I think Munster won 2 out of 3 in their head-to-heads the season just gone).
3. There's none so blind as those who will not see.

by **Notch** Tue 02 Aug 2011, 9:42 pm

Sin é wrote:
3. There's none so blind as those who will not see.

Oh Sin, I know you don't get this but... too perfect man. Too perfect! Good luck to you guinness

by red_stag Tue 02 Aug 2011, 9:43 pm

Sin é wrote:
3. There's none so blind as those who will not see.

Hilarious! You crack me up Sin

by Gibson Tue 02 Aug 2011, 9:59 pm

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I'd make a guess at Court-Fla-Buckley/Hayes

Second rows: eek, eh well Ryan anyway he needs to be there. I saw Cullen in the (1st team) training team. Don't see how he could be included though if others aren't, then again Fitz is in there too.

Possibly
McLaughlin-Leamy-Henry

Jennings isn't ready yet is he?

Jenno is just there, In full-contact training now. Won't feature vs Scotland and I dont think they will shove him in vs France away. But will be up for selection vs France at home a week later.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/matchdaytv/play/media/id/8859

by **rodders** Tue 02 Aug 2011, 10:40 pm

red_stag wrote:
Sin é wrote:
3. There's none so blind as those who will not see.

Hilarious! You crack me up Sin

Me too! You're some craic Sin, no hard feelings sir (even if you think I despise rog... Whistle

)?

by Sin é Wed 03 Aug 2011, 12:54 am

roddersm wrote:
Sin é wrote:
The fact that you came out with it says a lot about your mindset. And I just don't see how Sexton has earned the rating at international level that you are giving him. As far as I can see, he is still a work-in-progress, which is what you would expect most players with 12 interntional caps to their name to be.

I don't see Sexton as a work-in-progress at all. He can improve yes but for me he's the best fly-half in Europe right now and by some distance. I'm sorry that you are upset by that assessment. It doesn't mean I don't rate ROG who has been one of the best in Europe for the past decade and is still a fine player. I have no idea what "mindset" you think I have but I want to see Ireland do well and for me Sexton is the best guy to take us forward.

Even the Herald (which sponsors Leinster Rugby), doesn't think that:

1. WHO WILL BE IRELAND’S OUT-HALF?

At the conclusion of the Heineken Cup, Leinster’s Sexton had moved comfortably ahead of Ronan O’Gara only for the Munster marksman to remind those who would count him out of his value in the Magners League Grand Final.

There was a time when O’Gara had it out with Ireland’s previous coach O’Sullivan over being replaced by Ulster’s David Humphreys for the ‘championship minutes’ as an international stewed in the melting pot.

The boot is on the other foot now. It is Sexton who must wonder what he has to do to convince Kidney that he has earned the right to take Ireland all the way to the finish line.

He was removed from the fray against England with 12 minutes left on the clock; brought in to preserve Ireland against Wales in the 49th minute; and given short time against Scotland. He stayed for just over an hour against France and Italy.

There is a fine balance between healthy competition for this vital place and planting a seed of doubt in the mind of Sexton. He needs Kidney to believe in him.

http://www.herald.ie/sport/rugby/clock-is-ticking-as-boss-looks-to-hone-gameplan-for-world-cup-2837591.html

I know Ulster fans will blame southern press bias for this, but not one of them seem to think that Paddy Wallace should start at 12!

by **Notch** Wed 03 Aug 2011, 1:36 am

Sin, that quote you put into bold has nothing to with your point does it? If anything it's sort of implying he should get and deserves to get more gametime.

Their section on the 12 jersey is also fairly hilarious.

Why even refer to that? Headscratch

by Sin é Wed 03 Aug 2011, 2:00 am

Notch wrote:

Sin, that quote you put into bold has nothing to with your point does it? If anything it's sort of implying he should get and deserves to get more gametime.

Their section on the 12 jersey is also fairly hilarious.

Why even refer to that?

I think it was Pete who declared something like 'everyone knows Sexton is the best outhalf in Europe'. Surely the best outhalf in Europe wouldn't be challenged by an 'average' player like ROG and there would be no need to give him more gametime to build up his confidence, because ROG wouldn't be in the picture. And the Herald, which has some sort of a sponsorship deal with Leinster Rugby, would not be claiming that Sexton is lacking confidence at international level. Heck, they even admit that ROG was the better outhalf in their last head-to-head.

As for the 12 jersey - I've already made the point that I think it more likely that McFadden would start with Sexton as they have played together at club level and in the Churchill Cup win against the Saxons.

by MBTGOG Wed 03 Aug 2011, 8:29 am

The boot is on the other foot now. It is Sexton who must wonder what he has to do to convince Kidney that he has earned the right to take Ireland all the way to the finish line.

He was removed from the fray against England with 12 minutes left on the clock; brought in to preserve Ireland against Wales in the 49th minute; and given short time against Scotland. He stayed for just over an hour against France and Italy.

There is a fine balance between healthy competition for this vital place and planting a seed of doubt in the mind of Sexton. He needs Kidney to believe in him.

You can quite easily see the favouritism for Sexton in this piece. Some ridiculous things to put down. Kidney has been the one to always persevere with Sexton even when it wasn't happening for him at Leinster.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Aug 2011, 8:54 am

Sin in this whole debate you are the only person who has refered to rog as an 'average' player!

I actually agree with alot of what has been said there in the herald. I think Kidney is mishandling the 10 situation and there has been too much needless rotation already, which can't be good for Sextons development. As Sin has pointed out he only has 16 caps. Sexton was made a scapegoat by Kidney after the France game by Kidney for the sole reason of giving rog a start.

Compare to Johnsons management of Flood and Wilkinson, which is spot on in my opinion. Wilkinson is a national icon and in good form but Johnson clearly sees Flood as the man to orchestrate things at 10 and has pesisted with him even though he's struggled at times. Wilkinson surely wants to start but hasn't undermined Flood publically the way Rog did to Sexton.

In my opinion fly half is too important a position to rotate and all the top teams have a clear 1st choice 10. This idea that Sexton and ROG can share the role is nonsence. ROG is a quality player with loads of experience but I don't see any reason to start him for Ireland unless Sexton is injured or badly out of form.

by Sin é Wed 03 Aug 2011, 9:37 am

Very short memory Rodders - the fans were baying for the team's blood because of the poor performances & losses in the 6Ns. Any more losses and Sexton's* (and entire team's) confidence would have been shot to bits.

*If Sexton gets all the acclaim for the good performance and wins, I presume he has to take most of the blame for all the poor performances and well.

As for Johnson with Flood & Youngs - both were whipped off rapidly when England were losing in the Aviva. Wilkinson was brought on at 50 mins.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Aug 2011, 9:38 am

Sin-

I didn't say anything of the sort. Please don't put any of my comments into a different context or in this case credit someone else's comments to me.

Beginning to see a pattern develop of you defending a certain group of players to the hilt no matter what. You really wreck my head at times with your arguements because at times they make so little sense. It just ends up as it has here you arguing your corner and everyone else arguing another.

Sure each to their own anyways. If both Sexton and ROG were fit and doing ok would you actually choose ROG for the majority of games.

Sexton needs more time internationally.
It's a warm up game. Give him the time.
He needs experience playing with other combinations.
It's a warm up game. Give him the chance to gain that experience.

Stag- I am taking it that is not the team then no?

by Sin é Wed 03 Aug 2011, 9:47 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:If both Sexton and ROG were fit and doing ok would you actually choose ROG for the majority of games.

Nope, I'd check out who else is playing in the backs to see who I would select. i.e., if BOD was playing I would probably start Sexton (as he does need the game time). With BOD & D'Arcy not starting, I'd probably look to include the more experienced outhalf.

by **rodders** Wed 03 Aug 2011, 9:53 am

Sin é wrote:Very short memory Rodders - the fans were baying for the team's blood because of the poor performances & losses in the 6Ns. Any more losses and Sexton's* (and entire team's) confidence would have been shot to bits.

*If Sexton gets all the acclaim for the good performance and wins, I presume he has to take most of the blame for all the poor performances and well.

As for Johnson with Flood & Youngs - both were whipped off rapidly when England were losing in the Aviva. Wilkinson was brought on at 50 mins.

Sin I'm not sure why you are so concerned for Sextons confidence as opposed to our other players? D'arcy, Leamy, TOL, Best and DOC were much bigger contributers to those substandard performances than Sexton if my memory serves me correctly.

Does Sexton get all the acclaim for the good performances? He gets the acclaim for when he is the standout player, which is quite often for someone so 'inconsistant'. For Ireland he is dropped every 2 or 3 games to give ROG a start though which is poor man management in my book.

The difference with Flood and Youngs is that Johnson will put his faith in them again for the next game, which is exactly what a young player needs when they are trying to establish themself in the side. The most important thing a player needs for their confidence, since you are so worried about sexton's, is the knowledge that their coach has faith in them and that they will be treated equally to other players.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Aug 2011, 10:00 am

Considering that Darcy may not make the RWC
and
that Sexton is our best OH

maybe...maybe it would be a good idea in the warm ups to give him a shot with other centres???

So that in the RWC we can play the best 12 we have (Wallace if Darcy is unfit) and Sexton (our best 10) together and they will have a couple of games together.

Their styles should work beautifully together IMO

by **rodders** Wed 03 Aug 2011, 10:01 am

Further more Sin another reason why Sexton is the better option (as if the fact that he's the better player isn't enough) is that we will be playing a mostly 2nd choice pack so I would imagine the Scots will have significant dominance in the set piece and tight 5.

If we are to win this game it will be by moving the ball wide and getting our 3/4's into space. Sexton is much more effective with the ball in hand which is what we need.

I see no logic in playing for percentage and territory if our line out is likely to get picked apart. Playing ROG would be playing directly into the Scottish hands.

by Mickado Wed 03 Aug 2011, 10:30 am

Sin, do you believe that the warm up games should be won at all cost?

by geoff998rugby Wed 03 Aug 2011, 10:39 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Considering that Darcy may not make the RWC
and
that Sexton is our best OH

maybe...maybe it would be a good idea in the warm ups to give him a shot with other centres???

So that in the RWC we can play the best 12 we have (Wallace if Darcy is unfit) and Sexton (our best 10) together and they will have a couple of games together.

Their styles should work beautifully together IMO

Pete stop talking sense it is confusing me

by red_stag Wed 03 Aug 2011, 10:44 am

Sin E's World Cup XV

Horan, Flannery, Hayes
DOC, POC
Ryan, Leamy, Wallace
O'Leary, O'Gara
Darcy, O'Driscoll
Earls, Jones, Bowe

Varley, Buckley, O'Driscoll, O'Brien, Stringer, Sexton, Murray

Smile

by Mickado Wed 03 Aug 2011, 10:48 am

red_stag wrote:Sin E's World Cup XV

Horan, Flannery, Hayes
DOC, POC
Ryan, Leamy, Wallace
O'Leary, O'Gara
Hanrahan, Barnes
Earls, Jones, Zebo

Varley, Buckley, O'Driscoll, Coughlan, Stringer, Keatley, Murray

Fixed that for you... thumbsup

by **rodders** Wed 03 Aug 2011, 10:52 am

red_stag wrote:Sin E's World Cup XV

Horan, Flannery, Hayes
DOC, POC
Ryan, Leamy, Wallace
O'Leary, O'Gara
Darcy, O'Driscoll
Earls, Jones, Bowe

Varley, Buckley, O'Driscoll, O'Brien, Stringer, Sexton, Murray

As "odd" as that team looks to me stag in places, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just wish there was a bit more consistancy and logic behind the reason some people give for selecting one player over another.

If someone argues that O'Gara should start on the basis that they believe he is a better player or for tactical reasons then fair enough but to suggest ROG is needed because Sexton is inexperienced, inconsistant, not able to play without BOD, D'arcy etc. is just nonsence, especially in a warm up game.

by red_stag Wed 03 Aug 2011, 10:54 am

Ah Mick don't exaggerate.

by **Notch** Wed 03 Aug 2011, 10:56 am

roddersm wrote:
red_stag wrote:Sin E's World Cup XV

Horan, Flannery, Hayes
DOC, POC
Ryan, Leamy, Wallace
O'Leary, O'Gara
Darcy, O'Driscoll
Earls, Jones, Bowe

Varley, Buckley, O'Driscoll, O'Brien, Stringer, Sexton, Murray

As "odd" as that team looks to me stag in places, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just wish there was a bit more consistancy and logic behind the reason some people give for selecting one player over another.

If someone argues that O'Gara should start on the basis that they believe he is a better player or for tactical reasons then fair enough but to suggest ROG is needed because Sexton is inexperienced, inconsistant, not able to play without BOD, D'arcy etc. is just nonsence, especially in a warm up game.

Thats what gets me, it's not a World Cup final. It's game we've specifically arranged to try new combinations.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Aug 2011, 11:05 am

geoff998rugby wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Considering that Darcy may not make the RWC
and
that Sexton is our best OH

maybe...maybe it would be a good idea in the warm ups to give him a shot with other centres???

So that in the RWC we can play the best 12 we have (Wallace if Darcy is unfit) and Sexton (our best 10) together and they will have a couple of games together.

Their styles should work beautifully together IMO

Pete stop talking sense it is confusing me

I'll try my best. Mick O'Driscoll to the wing, he has bags of experience and his lineout handling would be perfect for cross kicks. Also, he is a Munster lad. Nuff said really!

Laugh

those kinda arguements just end up going around in circles IMO, really frustrates me. There also seems to be a strong provincial bias, but that is just my opinion on the matter
Can ruin good debates.

by red_stag Wed 03 Aug 2011, 11:07 am

Pete - you have clearly seen Mick O'Driscoll try against Gloucester in the Miracle Match in 2003.

Cross field kick to the corner to Mick O'Driscoll - TRY!!!

You are wise beyond your years.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Aug 2011, 11:08 am

Notch wrote:
roddersm wrote:
red_stag wrote:Sin E's World Cup XV

Horan, Flannery, Hayes
DOC, POC
Ryan, Leamy, Wallace
O'Leary, O'Gara
Darcy, O'Driscoll
Earls, Jones, Bowe

Varley, Buckley, O'Driscoll, O'Brien, Stringer, Sexton, Murray

As "odd" as that team looks to me stag in places, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just wish there was a bit more consistancy and logic behind the reason some people give for selecting one player over another.

If someone argues that O'Gara should start on the basis that they believe he is a better player or for tactical reasons then fair enough but to suggest ROG is needed because Sexton is inexperienced, inconsistant, not able to play without BOD, D'arcy etc. is just nonsence, especially in a warm up game.

Thats what gets me, it's not a World Cup final. It's game we've specifically arranged to try new combinations.

+1
also....it's at a time when a lot of our "1st choice" players aren't abck from injury/pre-season and is against a nation which we are (respectfully) better than, I'd feel better about giving Sexton-Wallace-McFadden a go against Scotland before I would against France. If they do well against Scotland well then put them up for other matches if the occasion calls for it

Stag-
Was wondering who'd jump to that first!

good man!
Obviously Horan is on the other wing too, naturally.

by red_stag Wed 03 Aug 2011, 11:10 am

Its part of the total rugby played by Munster. They used MOD and Horan as wingers. Leamy and Wallace at centre. O'Leary from 9-15.

EDIT: And Doug Howlett has gone to flanker in scrums. We have tended to use scrumhalf like a backrow.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Aug 2011, 11:15 am

Tis true.

Moving on from that Rog Sexton thing....after a good few pages of it.....
what do people think of the idea of a

Fitz-Kearney-Trimble back 3?

by **rodders** Wed 03 Aug 2011, 11:34 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Fitz-Kearney-Trimble back 3?

For this game it makes sense given the players we have available. Kearney needs game time and Trimble and Fitz could be playing for one spot on the plane. Looks a decent combo and all eyes will be on Kearney.

Our best back 3 for me will contain Bowe and Earls though and what chances we'll see Earls, Jones and Bowe together in the next game?

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Aug 2011, 11:44 am

I hear that Jones is on the bench for this game and will more than likely see time so that's a positive too. No idea how much time though.

by thebandwagonsociety Wed 03 Aug 2011, 11:56 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:I hear that Jones is on the bench for this game and will more than likely see time so that's a positive too. No idea how much time though.

I suspect it will be largely based on how Kearney gets on. I'd assume Kearney get 50 to 60 minutes, and I think it may be more at the 50 minute end, giving Jones close to 30 minutes at international level against Scotland (which should be minimum before being thrown in against England or France).

Does Jones get a start during these games? Or will it be something like;

Kearney 50 mins against Scotland (Jones 30 mins from bench)
Murphy 50 mins against France away (Jones 30 mins from bench)
Kearney 80 mins against France (Earls covering from bench)
Murphy 70 mins against England (Kearney 10 mins from bench)

Unless Jones is MOTM in his cameos, or there is injury/delay to Kearney or Murphy, I think this is how it will plan out.

Not that I agree with this. In my view, Jones should start against Scotland, get 55-60 minutes and Kearney come on as sub. Then Kearney gets 55-60 minutes with Murphy as sub and Murphy gets 55-60 minutes with Jones as sub with the best performer being given 80 minutes in the final game.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 03 Aug 2011, 12:02 pm

I don't know how they will work it. From all the noise on here it seems to be Kearney and Jones who are leading the race for 2 fb spots.

I'd like jones to get 30 against Scot then prob start in France or at least get another 30.

by The Great Aukster Wed 03 Aug 2011, 8:02 pm

Sin é wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Sin é wrote:Which reminds me - last week someone posted that D'Arcy had annoyed the Ireland management by going off on holidays and not having his operation first.

It turns out, that the medical people advised him to wait until after his holidays to have the operation (according to Paul McNaughton in Irish Times) as they didn't think he needed one.

Just want to clear his name with regard to this as he was getting a bit of stick for it.

Wow Ireland manager defends player in public, shocker! What on earth was he expected to say - that they were annoyed with him?

McNaughton was more having a go at the medics at getting the diagnosis wrong than defending D'Arcy.

Just someone 'in the know' here claimed that the Ireland management were annoyed with D'Arcy because because he decided to go on his holidays rather than have his operation first. That is not the case as it was the medics who decided when the operation went ahead.

AFAIK the 'medics' wanted him to have the op. but also said there was a small chance it might get better without it. They didn't get the diagnosis wrong, but left it up to Darce to decide - in the full knowledge of the RWC implications.

IMO it's telling that PMcN felt the need to mention details at all and suggests GDA may not be flavour of the month.

by Sin é Thu 04 Aug 2011, 10:07 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Sin-

I didn't say anything of the sort. Please don't put any of my comments into a different context or in this case credit someone else's comments to me. Sorry, if it wasn't you, but it was one of you from the pub clique.

Beginning to see a pattern develop of you defending a certain group of players to the hilt no matter what. So, what is the pattern? What's the pattern of I defending D'Arcy's reputation?

You really wreck my head at times with your arguements because at times they make so little sense. It just ends up as it has here you arguing your corner and everyone else arguing another. I have no problem figuring out your arguments - easy to see where you are coming from. Just because a lot of people go along with something, it doesn't mean that they are therefore correct in their assessment.

Sure each to their own anyways. If both Sexton and ROG were fit and doing ok would you actually choose ROG for the majority of games.When I pick a team, I pick a horses for courses one. I was asked directly to pick a team for the world cup (I wouldn't be into the Eddie O'Sullivan way of having 15 starters and thats it. I think I surprised one or two with my selection for Australia (and my team would be different against Russia/Italy.

Sexton needs more time internationally: He does. 12 starting caps isn't a huge number, particularly for an OH.
It's a warm up game. Give him the time. Its also a warmup game for a few people who don't have a huge number of caps (experience) without their captain in the backs. No one player is greater than the team.
He needs experience playing with other combinations. He is going to get experience playing with other combinations. Hopefully he will never have to start without BOD in the world cup.
It's a warm up game. Give him the chance to gain that experience.Its not his only chance! There are 3 others. What about the other players? Do they not deserve to have a bit of experience around them - Paddy Wallace, Fergus McFaddan & Boss have about 30 caps between them.

by Sin é Thu 04 Aug 2011, 10:28 am

[quote="roddersm"]Sin in this whole debate you are the only person who has refered to rog as an 'average' player! And you are the only person I have heard claim that Sexton has done everything that O'Gara has done Very Happy

I actually agree with alot of what has been said there in the herald. I think Kidney is mishandling the 10 situation and there has been too much needless rotation already, which can't be good for Sextons development. As Sin has pointed out he only has 16 caps. Sexton was made a scapegoat by Kidney after the France game by Kidney for the sole reason of giving rog a start. Tomas O'Leary has only four more caps than Sexton - yet the comments here is that he should never be allowed play international rugby again.

Compare to Johnsons management of Flood and Wilkinson, which is spot on in my opinion. Wilkinson is a national icon and in good form but Johnson clearly sees Flood as the man to orchestrate things at 10 and has pesisted with him even though he's struggled at times. Wilkinson surely wants to start but hasn't undermined Flood publically the way Rog did to Sexton. Surely you are the only person who can see that Johnson dropped Flood as soon as he was struggling. There are question marks over whether Wilkinson should be playing, considering he moved to France and isn't as available for training caps ext. As soon as Flood was finding the going difficult, he took him off. Kidney took Sexton off as well against England, as soon as England were beginning to come back into the game - presumably because of ROG's superior game management ability.

In my opinion fly half is too important a position to rotate and all the top teams have a clear 1st choice 10. This idea that Sexton and ROG can share the role is nonsence. ROG is a quality player with loads of experience but I don't see any reason to start him for Ireland unless Sexton is injured or badly out of form.

The reason why they don't rotate is because their first choice OH is clearly superior to the rest available. For example, who is within an asses roar of Dan Carter for the top team? Paddy Wallace rarely rotated in because he isn't good enough. Maybe in the future Sexton will start every game - but his form at international level has been very erratic to date at international level.

by Sin é Thu 04 Aug 2011, 10:37 am

roddersm wrote:Further more Sin another reason why Sexton is the better option (as if the fact that he's the better player isn't enough) is that we will be playing a mostly 2nd choice pack so I would imagine the Scots will have significant dominance in the set piece and tight 5.

If we are to win this game it will be by moving the ball wide and getting our 3/4's into space. Sexton is much more effective with the ball in hand which is what we need.

I see no logic in playing for percentage and territory if our line out is likely to get picked apart. Playing ROG would be playing directly into the Scottish hands.

You really trot out a lot of cliched rubbish

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Thu 04 Aug 2011, 10:42 am

Rodders makes an excellent point her Sin, that is just good analytical tactics.

When he says wide, i assume he means once we have punch holes in the midfield first a few times but everything else there is spot on

by Sin é Thu 04 Aug 2011, 10:52 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
Sin é wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
Sin é wrote:Which reminds me - last week someone posted that D'Arcy had annoyed the Ireland management by going off on holidays and not having his operation first.

It turns out, that the medical people advised him to wait until after his holidays to have the operation (according to Paul McNaughton in Irish Times) as they didn't think he needed one.

Just want to clear his name with regard to this as he was getting a bit of stick for it.

Wow Ireland manager defends player in public, shocker! What on earth was he expected to say - that they were annoyed with him?

McNaughton was more having a go at the medics at getting the diagnosis wrong than defending D'Arcy.

Just someone 'in the know' here claimed that the Ireland management were annoyed with D'Arcy because because he decided to go on his holidays rather than have his operation first. That is not the case as it was the medics who decided when the operation went ahead.

AFAIK the 'medics' wanted him to have the op. but also said there was a small chance it might get better without it. They didn't get the diagnosis wrong, but left it up to Darce to decide - in the full knowledge of the RWC implications.

IMO it's telling that PMcN felt the need to mention details at all and suggests GDA may not be flavour of the month.

According to the Irish Times:

McNaughton maintained there was no frustration on the part of the player or the management that the need for an operation on his ankle (on June 20th) was not detected until after D’Arcy’s summer holidays.

“No. The medics looked at it and with that type of injury they felt they wouldn’t recommend an operation and they’d let it settle down. That’s what their procedure would have been (but) it didn’t settle down and then we needed to get the operation done as quickly as possible.”

For the record, none of the other papers made any mention of the timing of the operation, so I doubt if it was a big deal. Only people McNaughton is defending are the medics.

by Sin é Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:12 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Rodders makes an excellent point her Sin, that is just good analytical tactics.

When he says wide, i assume he means once we have punch holes in the midfield first a few times but everything else there is spot on

This is cliched rubbish.

I see no logic in playing for percentage and territory if our line out is likely to get picked apart. Playing ROG would be playing directly into the Scottish hands.

by Thomond Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:17 am

Sin,firstly there are merits to O'Leary playing,particularly against a team like Australia who have such attacking half back and a great attacking team in general. I don't think ROG should start this game and it has nothing to do with tactics. The guy isn't fully fit. If he was I would have no problem as everyone will see game time over the Summer Internationals.

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:19 am

Sin é wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Rodders makes an excellent point her Sin, that is just good analytical tactics.

When he says wide, i assume he means once we have punch holes in the midfield first a few times but everything else there is spot on

This is cliched rubbish.

I see no logic in playing for percentage and territory if our line out is likely to get picked apart. Playing ROG would be playing directly into the Scottish hands.

??

His theory makes sense. We probably aren't going to have dominance in either set piece and if we get parity at the breakdown we will be doing well.

by Sin é Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:22 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:
Sin é wrote:
pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Rodders makes an excellent point her Sin, that is just good analytical tactics.

When he says wide, i assume he means once we have punch holes in the midfield first a few times but everything else there is spot on

This is cliched rubbish.

I see no logic in playing for percentage and territory if our line out is likely to get picked apart. Playing ROG would be playing directly into the Scottish hands.

??

His theory makes sense. We probably aren't going to have dominance in either set piece and if we get parity at the breakdown we will be doing well.

The cliched rubbish is that O'Gara can only kick to the corners and play percentage rugby

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:30 am

Not saying that at all, or saying that that is what Rodders is saying, Sexton is much better at getting backs moving than ROG though as he attacks the gain line far more, draws in defenders and this creates space in the midfield for centres, or blind side wingers.

by **rodders** Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:31 am

Sin é wrote:
The cliched rubbish is that O'Gara can only kick to the corners and play percentage rugby

My point is not that O'Gara can only kick to the corners and play percentage rugby but that the only area that he is superior to Sexton in my view is kicking to the corners and playing percentage rugby.

That is not a cliche but my opinion based on watching both players over the past few seasons.

by Sin é Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:34 am

Thomond wrote:Sin,firstly there are merits to O'Leary playing,particularly against a team like Australia who have such attacking half back and a great attacking team in general. I don't think ROG should start this game and it has nothing to do with tactics. The guy isn't fully fit. If he was I would have no problem as everyone will see game time over the Summer Internationals.

Thomond. I'd have O'Leary/Sexton start against Australia for those exact reasons. There are some people here who wouldn't have O'Leary on the plane though.

I don't have a problem with either Sexton or O'Gara starting against Scotland (contrary to all the outrage here). I'd prefer if BOD was starting though as I think both himself & D'Arcy will be a big miss.

McNaughton held a press conference the other day about injuries and O'Gara's name wasn't mentioned as being not fit to play even though BOD & Jennings were talked about being not quite ready yet. I believe the aim is to give them all about 2 games each which is why I can't understand why the Sexton is God camp are so anxious to have Sexton play against Scotland. Surely they would prefer to see him shining against France the following week?

What is most amusing at this stage is the amount of disparaging comments about O'Gara. Its as if they keep repeating them they become true or something Very Happy

by Thomond Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:36 am

People who think ROG can only kick to the corners,look how many tries he has created for Ireland over the years.

by **rodders** Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:40 am

Thomond wrote:People who think ROG can only kick to the corners,look how many tries he has created for Ireland over the years.

Who thinks that?????!!!!! furious

by pete (buachaill on eirne) Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:41 am

"My point is not that O'Gara can only kick to the corners and play percentage rugby but that the only area that he is superior to Sexton in my view is kicking to the corners and playing percentage rugby."

I agree with that 100%

Sin-
I wouldn't play TOl against Aus because we wouldn't get quick ball--->therefore wouldn't get go forward ball---->therefore would get turned over to easily------>therefore Australia would have the ball and would start doing what they do best, attacking.

In my dream scenario Sexton wouldn't be playing this game, because at the end of the season he played more games than ROG did and higher intensity games too. The fact taht ROG had a calf tear a couple of weeks ago, and from inside info, I think we have to play Sexton or Wallace at 10. But I want to see Wallace and Sexton playing together.

Thomond-
Is anyone saying he can only kick corners? We are saying that is his main advantage over Sexton cos he is better at that than Sexton.
Sexton is more a less better at everything else. Goal kicking aside too

by Thomond Thu 04 Aug 2011, 11:42 am

One of your posts seems to indicate that Sexton is the man to put our backs into space. Just because ROG isn't a running out half doesn't mean he can't create space for others.

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